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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

coyotepup

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About coyotepup

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  1. Tanker hits Destoyer, how is this possible?

    I suggest you inform the Navy that you have the answer to the questions they're asking, they'll be glad to know they can put down their pencils and issue a report to that effect. I can't imagine why neither them nor any of us have come to such an obvious conclusion based on the partial evidence we have in front of us.
  2. Tanker hits Destoyer, how is this possible?

    Yeah, that's because the report was a report specifically on the damage control efforts, not the causes of collision.
  3. Tanker hits Destoyer, how is this possible?

    Yes, I'm well aware, I read the whole report from top to bottom. The collision happened at 0130 local, this is perfectly well established, and the Crystal was at position 2 at 1630 UTC, which is 0130 local. Period. They changed course before the collision. Obviously. They didn't just slam into each other without some kind of course change first. The fact is that in every Navy collision not involving a submarine, and I was required to study basically all of them, course changes happen before the collision. Ships don't blunder blindly into each other, and as fun as it has been to wonder why a team of trained Navy officers and watchstanders with radar up the wazoo couldn't see a massive container ship, I think it's time to understand the truth here: they are absolutely guaranteed to have seen the Crystal, probably from a very long way away, and made a very large mistake in judgment as to what the Crystal was doing. Common threads in all collision case studies have been these: the ships involved definitely saw each other, and failed to recognize the other as a threat to collide until it was too late, at which point they made a large rudder change to fruitlessly try to avoid the inevitable. One way or the other, that's what will come out in the wash here. But the collision was still at point 2 on the Crystal's track.
  4. Tanker hits Destoyer, how is this possible?

    The collision was at position 2, we know this because of the times listed. 1630 UTC is 0130 local. What's interesting is that the Fitz was steering 230.....making this very likely a head-on situation and not a crossing situation. Reciprocal of 230 is 050, very close to the 068 Crystal was steering. The next question is how do the ships go from a nearly head-on aspect to the collision aspect described. Perhaps the Crystal turned hard starboard (as its captain described) and the Fitz turned even harder to port at the same time. Perhaps the two ships interpreted the situation differently - one as a crossing and the other as a head-on. Different nav light aspects could cause that.
  5. OUTSIDE INSIDE THE CIRCLE

    First off, it says if the fouling boat gained a clear advantage despite taking a penalty. Had they taken a penalty, there is very little chance their W/L foul would have given Black an advantage. Second, how did Black gain a clear advantage if you shoved them to the wrong side of the mark and they had to circle back behind you in order to round the mark? On the other hand, I would ask if you didn't gain a clear advantage (having forced Black to waste a lot of time circling back) with what looks like a pretty plain mark-room foul on your part.
  6. I'm not yelling

    Really? Cause just yesterday I was the only one to show up for the race, and the skipper said, oh well, let's just doublehand it. And it was a blast. The most recent bullet we took in this same series, we had half the usual crew size and everyone had to double up on jobs. And it was just as fun. I think you'd find most people would prefer to sail undermanned than overmanned. Keeping busy is fun. Frankly I don't think you really get this whole crew thing. You can do all that shit you think is more of the racing than 100% and without people to move your sails around you might as well have done absolutely none of it. I have to wonder how correct hoists and douses at the marks are less important than "working out the bias on the line."
  7. I'm not yelling

    Is soccer (sorry, my English colleague - football) a team sport? How many soccer/football players own the stadium? How many of them sign other players, or trade them, or cut them? How many of them pay the salaries of the stadium staff? How many of them hire and fire team employees? How many of them draw up game plans? How many of them get to take the trophy home? (Yes, they get rings, which are given to them by, as you might guess, the team owner.) The definition you give for a team sport means there are no team sports in the world. Yes, the owner organizes a crew, owns the boat, pays for most things (not everything - in many large events the crew will often be asked to chip in) and takes home the trophies. The same is true for soccer teams, baseball teams, football teams, basketball teams, hockey teams, rugby teams, cricket teams, and every other team sport under the sun. But then, a team sport is not defined and never has been defined as investment of owner vs. investment of all others. It's defined as whether success is determined by one person, such as golf or singles' tennis) or a group of people. And the fact that the owner participates in the race makes it more of a team sport, not less. If the crew is only 1% responsible for the results, why do you blather on about the need to train them?
  8. Chicago-Mac/Meridian X MOB Recovery

    Give verbal directions to where, exactly? I get that there are some advantages of being able to talk to potential rescuers, but directions to a completely unknown point in a pitch-black lake from another completely unknown point in a pitch-black lake ain't one of them. The whistle works better. There are only two ways to find a MOB other than lucky blundering around: - electronics that can talk to each other and give the humans on the boat a location to find (AIS, etc.) - signals that humans can pick up with their own sensory inputs and direct themselves to the source (whistle, lights) I guess if the MOB could see a boat, knew which boat it was and that that boat was trying to find him, and could tell the aspect of the boat (i.e. waves were not blocking him) then he could direct them to him via radio. But if they're that close, a whistle and light should be just as effective.
  9. BYC-Mac

    Well I'm pretty sure I'll never again finish on Sunday before sunset again unless I end up on a MUCH bigger boat. We never tacked or gybed. Some of us were thinking this year's race might've set the record for earliest pickle boat ever, which came in Monday at 9:30-ish. Earliest going back as far as the results are available on the website, anyway. And yes, the party was excellent too, in my opinion because they ran out of beer last year and fixed that problem this year.
  10. Chicago-Mac/Meridian X MOB Recovery

    No one should go overboard, and yet people do. I don't think taking or discussing precautions to prevent MOB in the first place is reason to halt discussion on what to do if it happens anyway.
  11. If Firefly isn't listed as retired (and they're not) that's probably on Firefly for not yet notifying the RC. Anyway, the "results by division" aren't showing anyone who hasn't either finished or retired. Check the results by section, all boats that started are listed there.
  12. Tanker hits Destoyer, how is this possible?

    I would tend to dispute the conclusion, obviously, but even if 100% true, squawking AIS isn't going to change that. It might make it worse, if you adopt the idea of having a rotating fake name. "Who are we this week, again? The M/V Galactic Superstar?" "No, that was last week, now we're the SS Megalithic." I'm sure it would be a bullet in the nav brief, but still. And then, of course, the jig is completely up the moment the "Megalithic" responds on VHF (especially if accidentally as "Warship 5-4" which is how Navy ships refer to themselves on VHF) and it's obvious to the entire friggin' world that "Megalithic" is actually the big gray warship. How many merchant ships are going to confuse themselves with a Navy warship? And if they missed the "Navy warship" part of the call, then they'd have missed anything in that part of the call, whether it's a ship name or not. And in the end, what's the worst that happened in your scenario - a couple bridge watchstanders on uninvolved ships were inconvenienced and had to spend a couple minutes updating on their situational awareness? Horrors. And radar will pick up a contact a LONG way away. This is not something that happens within a mile or two. It happens within ten or twelve miles. Perfectly adequate time for a CPA to be calculated. The Navy is not going to hand potential adversaries a tool to track their ships and learn their traffic patterns. Yes, it can be done in other, more difficult ways. Why make it easier?
  13. You must not have kids in Little League these days, or ever bought them a new bat. F1 is actually a great comparison in countries where it's popular, but as you point out, not so much for English speaking countries. Well, on this side of the pond, anyway. That's not because F1 has failed to do its job despite spending billions. It's because we have things like NASCAR here. So use Brian France instead of Bernie Ecclestone. NASCAR is crazy popular. And the hundreds of thousands of people who fill NASCAR venues each week, they go home and are involved in car culture in some way. Many of them do their own racing on local dirt tracks or dusty little speedways. Or they restore cars. Or they show them off at one of the zillions of car shows. Point is, they'll never race NASCAR, but they get involved in their own way. It's not about "asking about a little hole," that's just taking one of thousands of examples of increased interest and acting like it's the biggest or only example. It's not. It's not about whether anyone here suddenly jumps into foiling racers - that doesn't say anything at all. People don't switch from showing off their pride and joy, to racing cars with restrictor plates, but that doesn't mean NASCAR is wasting its time. The point is that you can talk to people about sailing and they have no idea how to relate to it, so it's not interesting. Now the AC is on, and they watched it. Now they can relate to it, even if only a tiny bit. So now it's that much more interesting. The point is that kids can watch the AC and find it far more compelling than a dry description of tactics. Now they have sailing on a list of things they want to do. Some will try it out. Some of those will stick. And you can bet that in that group, there are people who would never have been sailors without having seen these bizarre machines go zooming around the water. This kind of racing may turn a lot of sailors off the AC, but it won't turn sailors off of sailing. On the flipside, it will turn non-sailors on to sailing. That's a trade-off I'll take. I really do wish the AC could be more like it was 30 or 60 years ago. But more than that I want to see new people in boats.
  14. Tanker hits Destoyer, how is this possible?

    By the way, I think squawking AIS, even with random, rotating names, is not a good idea. No, the Navy is not deluding themselves into thinking not squawking AIS makes them super-secret. The Navy knows it's not sneaking around. But neither is it wise, to give possible enemies one extra tool in the toolbox. Might it be a small, incremental step in avoiding collisions? Sure, just as it's a small, incremental step toward giving somebody a way to blow up the ship. I don't think it's a good trade off. Even if you had a list of 25,000 random ship names (that would last about a year and a half, if every Navy ship had one and changed it weekly) any idiot could look against the international ship register, see that that name isn't on there, and conclude it's a Navy ship trying to hide itself. The only thing worse than running around going "I'M A NAVY SHIP" is pretending not to be one in blatantly transparent ways. The only real advantage I see is that it would give the merchant ship a name to call a Navy ship. Its radars should still pick it up as a surface contact and track a CPA. A halfway decent radio call in any case - whether or not you know the name of the contact - should give the ship you're hailing your range and bearing from them. "Navy warship, Navy warship, Navy, warship, this is ACX Crystal, 6,000 yards off your starboard bow." You don't need a name to make that call and now you've made yourself perfectly clear. No AIS required.
  15. Tanker hits Destoyer, how is this possible?

    Just like every Marine is a rifleman, every sailor is a firefighter. But actually, these days, they make an announcement that "the ship is in a training environment" before setting off any alarms. I think this is so that guys don't drench some poor engineering chief waving a "class B fire" flag with AFFF and make an unholy, very possibly damage-causing, mess of the engine room in the process. Insufficient hustle was still met with an order to shape the hell up.