Tcatman

Members
  • Content Count

    1,204
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

10 Whiner

About Tcatman

  • Rank
    Super Anarchist

Profile Information

  • Location
    Chesapeake Bay

Recent Profile Visitors

6,858 profile views
  1. Tcatman

    New Olympic Dinghy Selection

    What the hell is the appeal for MIXED events.... For multihulls.... mixed was SUPPOSED to be a stepping stone to Mens and Womans' multi's. Is this just the same ol same ol ..... a political solution
  2. Tcatman

    New Olympic Dinghy Selection

    JulianB A couple of questions, ISAF insisted on hands on control of the class rules and technical specs and Nacra agreed to the terms. They did not have a team like and in my opinion the hot launch was far worse then anticipated. The result was a silly half assed boat used for one quad. You did not have partners with equal skin in the game or expertise. How did you view the ISAF/Nacra leadership for the 17 hot launch and do you think ISAF/World Sailing control of the future olympic dinghy class would present the same problems. (now of course, you have a very different boat for quad 2) If hot launches are the only way forward and the law of unexpected consequences is the order of the day... Does that mean you just add weight/beef within in reason... The Olympic boat doesn't have to be the best of its genre... just available and fair to all. How much time in the quad can be budgeted for on the fly development and be fair to the competitors? Last question, Bill Roberts (Supercat) and Goran Marstrom (Tornado) always argued that the olympic boat should be pretty technical so that the Olympic sailor was challenged on all aspects of the game and luck was minimized. Do you have an opinion to share? Thanks.
  3. Tcatman

    New Olympic Dinghy Selection

    Maybe Dina learned something from the N17 fubar process!! The pitfalls were readily seen as that process got going. As a member of the technical committee She had to recuse herself from the actual selection process itself because her friend Caroljn Brower had a boat in the trials.. Nevertheless.... they (the technical committee) were convinced that ISAF could supervise the final roll out of the N17 from just two prototype platforms.... no rigs and the resume of Pete Melvin et al. oops..... oh well.. Lets just hope they pick a boat that is fully baked this time.
  4. Tcatman

    New Olympic Dinghy Selection

    And then the part that matters begins... politics!
  5. Tcatman

    New Olympic Dinghy Selection

    Nicely stated!!! Areo seems to have a plan for managing the Corinthian versus Olympic demographics. I wonder if a ready supply of used cheap oversized Olympic sails skews the local scene... but I think you have a chance at starting local fleets. You can't find much evidence that the Nacra 17 has generated local or regional Corinthian fleets with their World Sailing controlled class and marketing approach... so good luck to Areo
  6. Tcatman

    How to score one class with two divisions?

    Yup.... lots of paper... (you can set it up with sailwave and alias and scoring systems etc etc) Every interaction on the water between two boats considers the impact on the overall and the fleet score... So you have to know the scoresheet. How you value and calculate each interaction changes in race 1 compared to race 10. It can be as complicated as you care for or not complicated at all. As a scorekeeper.... I have a lot of experience scoring a handicap fleet overall and then calculating a one design score for a small subset of boats. (Basically Fleet Scoring) You get a lot of feedback.... (that I don't think got redirected to their competitors on the water). So, when the one design competition was more valuable then the overall competition... I got gripes... about... the competition as not being a lot of fun... blah blah... ratings... blah blah... and turnout gradually went down. In hind sight... I should have told the one design guys they were not a fleet... just a division within handicap and not rescored them as a fleet.... When one of the fleets gets small....the competition is gone and participation craters.... rarely are the two fleets equal in number and talent! I did not understand the impact on competition of my practice and the software makes it sooo easy to do. (FYI, the worlds will score two fleets on two separate courses to preserve the competition) Eventually I scored some big opti events and finally understood the wisdom of Opt, Red White and Blue scoring.. I agree with lamorak about the final outcomes.. I know most final results would not have changed (nature of the pecking order) ... BUT... the structure of the competition would be fair and all boats racing each other all the time would be the optimal competitive structure for the game. (to be fair... I really don't know if it makes a difference in the long run) I also get the fleet option as a sailor. ... my bias would also be for two 25 boat one design fleets because that is how I have raced all my life.. There is one additional factor that you understand scoring optis... Watching kids cry at seeing a score of 30 overall in a 100 boat fleet and the happiness over the 4th place in their 10 boat white division was an eye opener about competition and perception... (parents were even worse!) So... the popularity of low numbers (4th with a score of 250) in your final scorecard is another human factor. Nobody wants to go home and say... i scored 10 25s for 250 points and WON! Nevertheless..... one vote for the opti scoring system. Even if the impact is marginal or unmeasurable...it seems to have the most integrity. I would love to hear from a judge if one class two fleet scoring creates issues in say rewarding redress for assisting a boat in another fleet? YMMV
  7. Tcatman

    How to score one class with two divisions?

    Good point on a fluke result... The same argument could be made on the impact of a DSQ in a 100 boat fleet versus a 50 boat fleet. I started out strongly favoring separate scoring because of the large impact of an outlier in the scoring that you note. I thought the two fleets made for a better game. Today, I favor the Opti solution. IMO, the downside of just the possibility that the game is somehow... no matter how small is "unfair" is much worse then the down side of dealing with an out of the blue fluke result. A wiff of unfairness or bias undermines support for the game.... the crux of the matter is your point. ... "doubtful and easily evident"... assumes that in any routine event... the issue is raised, facts are found, and guilty beyond reasonable doubt actually happens.. At the amateur level... I doubt this happens... more likely... you take your toy and go home. .... I think human nature can manage... "damn!... something strange happened." With... Ok. that is sailboat racing. I also get the "more interesting fleet management" point... I just don't think the upside outweighs the down side. Thanks for the thoughts. ( I am testing my thinking on the matter)
  8. The A class is a development class with a single measurement rule. Foiling technology has advanced so much that half the A class fleet will foil while the other half are conventional cats. Essentially, the sailors want to think of this as one class with two divisions. There is a large skill set needed to foil the boat around the course effectively. so the two division are thoroughly mixed on the race course. The recent NA's scored the entire fleet. one through approx 50 and awarded trophies then each division one through approx 25 and awarded trophies. The Opti class scores the opti fleet overall and awards trophies and then scores three divisions sorted by age (red, white, and blue) and awards trophies. They keep the overall scoring when determining your division score.... (eg the white fleet winner would have all first place white fleet scores of 5, 10 and 15 for a total score of 30... tops in white fleet.) The A class NAs re-scores each division.... 1 to 25... essentially each division is scored as its own fleet. (resulting in final positions possibly changing from the overall score) It seems to me that the Opti system maintains the integrity of competition for all the boats in the fleet. Their can be NO issues, between two boats interacting on the course with one saying to the other... Hey... let my pass... you are not racing me in my "division" Or.... let me pass..... I can slow down your competitor in your division.... If you let a pass go through... you hurt your final score overall and within your division... so the game is fair. Comments? Second question, Given that you are going to rescore the two divisions for trophies... How should judging protests factor in penalties and redress? Since times are not collected...how fair is it to award redress taking into account the overall finish and the division finish. (Seems like it could be a real challenge to be fair). Comments?
  9. look up the hobie high points standings. that will give you an accurate report on hobie class activity within your travel range. A class and F18 activity might not be centralized in one spot.. Houston Yacht club would be a good place to check out for cats. Also check out the fleets running the great texas 300 race.
  10. Tcatman

    Hervey Bay A Class Worlds

    Ahh.... class culture.... VS the way its supposed to work. When I got my boat, I was educated by senior class members that in the A Class... they don't protest... everyone does the right thing on the water... IF... a protest MIGHT seem to be pending... they urged an unofficial mediation process.. It was supposed to be SO much nicer to race then the other classes ie T's and Hobie fleets. Hell... the notion of getting a judge lined up for an event was not common. Does it work?... Hell no! I watched a colleague have an epic highly public melt down at Isleomorada after repeated fouls went uncorrected. So, The culture is what it is. IMO, I if you aren't going to self police your own fleet.... Chances are... you are not going after a foul in another fleet... Your point is well made....and represents a clear universal culture... The A class reality that I experienced was a lot more clubby. I characterized the psychology as... "I am not going to be an asshole....." YMMV. To your point about a smart judge figuring out the proper solution for redress... Absolutely... I was Just proposing some alternatives that would minimize the number of issues and mitigate the noise that follows redress decisions in the fleet. For two divisions sharing the same start and course, IMO, its best that all boats be racing each other. Human nature impacts the perception of the stakes here between the NA's (pre Worlds) and one of 20 classes at the XXX annual regatta week. Indeed, the speed differences are their major concern... 30 knots per boat on a crowded race course with vast skill differences is a big change to the cross or DUCK DUCK DUCK conversation ... All the more so on a single hander where the dialog is between you and that little voice in your head...
  11. Tcatman

    Hervey Bay A Class Worlds

    Thanks for the info... Two fleets on two courses manages the integrity of the competition nicely. A good decision. If you go with one course... How do you manage protests between the two fleets? While the racing rules of sailing will resolve all the issues ... It seems like you are being an asshole for protesting some one in another fleet.... the scoring redress awarded is likely to be contentious no matter how hard you try to be fair. If you are running one course.... Have you considered one fleet, two divisions.... scored like the Opti class with Red, White and Blue divisions (USA version) The advantage is that all competitors on the course are racing one another (1 through 100) and protests and redress effect the entire fleet. (Basically you keep your finish position as your score and then calculate throwouts, ocs, etc) The psychology is better as well.... you don't have... the HEY... we are not racing each other... don't be a dick, let me pass.. interaction. No matter how that interaction plays out... there is an impact on the rest of the competitors as well as how you sail against the fleet. TIA
  12. Tcatman

    Hervey Bay A Class Worlds

    Are the Worlds scoring two fleets independently with a single start like the Aussie NA's?
  13. Tcatman

    RS Cat 14 Question

    Center traveler.... sheet main hard and get speed up... going to weather...... Don't tack from reach to reach. Put helm over... leave jib sheeted to backwind... when boat is head to wind... uncleat and ease main sheet about 6 inches. and cleat. complete tack... release jib and sheet in jib then main. Gybing in breeze going slow will kill you. Dart 18's and Dart 20's aka Stampedes circa late 80s No US importer after that. Perhaps Canada has a few.... boat was designed well after dart 18s, 20s , TSX (20 with a chute) or a Hawk... (early F18) Hobie Getaway is a 16 foot rotomolded Hobie for rec sailors... simple boat that has a forward tramp as well. lots of volume for lots of weight. Hobie 17 is a single handed race boat. Hobie 17 sports add a jib for a rec market... BUT not enough hull volume to carry much weight.... not a great option for 2 or 3 adults. Good luck.
  14. Second what rawhide said.. Good luck.... I think you have the right approach with the club scene focus. Hopefully, the US Sailors will see the value of building a club racing scene... even if it might cost some opportunities on the travel OD circuit to build this.
  15. Tcatman

    The fine balance of Family and Sailing

    So... keep the boat flat... don't sail in breeze where you can't keep the boat flat.... My wife KNEW I could control the boat... if she was getting wet... she would let me fly the hull to keep her dry. Find a cat that you can right by yourself... or get a righting bag and the stress level will go away.... (assuming the kids swim and wear jackets). Find a club with facilities (meaning NICE bathroom), never flip the boat with her on it, and find a beach near the club/at the club that allows you to go off and on for short sails..... epic three hour tours are for 60s tv shows in this day and age. Oh... and give up hope that one day... some day... she will like it.... Never gonna happen.... at best she tolerates...and likes the beach part of beach cat sailing. now the kids....they will have more fun getting wet then staying comfy in the day sailor with a safe picnic basket. Don't compromise....give them something to sail on the boat.... you can always power assist while they are growing...