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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.


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  1. eh.... start off discussion on Steve Clarke's point up the thread about A class rule 8... aka ... The original sin! Time will tell if the Z's are the solution for weekend sailors. the N17s want the difficulty factor..if they are "challenging" that is a feature... not a bug after all it's Olympic and this is one point of view about Olympic boats. Till then... a class for true believers on the edge..
  2. What you want is an F16.... sail it uni in breeze... sail it uni with a chute in conditions you like.... add the jib when you get a friend. Bit heavier then an A class but more robust on a beach. Sounds like one design racing or development is not at the top of you must have lists....
  3. It was a Great read! The feedback on the article probably represents the proportion of builders/designers playing in the A cat field versus the sailors who have the toy and choose to go racing.
  4. So can you point to any US regatta where times were collected with at least a couple of boats in the three classes were raced AND verify that the boats were race ready (good sails and foils) by accomplished helms? I doubt you can.... So what to do.... The only thing that matters is the fun factor for the sailors on race day.... One day ... someday... to determine the best sailing performance won't cut it... The PN committee should NOT make matters worse and run the calculation with the garbage already in the system. Far better to take the UK table and recenter around the US standard of the thistle. Call the system US dinghy PHRF Time on time handicap. ITS a club decision.... the OA can publish their handicap table, explain how they get the ratings and make it so in their NOR .... and nobody can challenge them. This is not a laser class issue....It is not a US Sailing issue either. (they can't fix the problem of no valid data) Its an individual sailor concern... would I have fun competing in this handicap race... Yeah or Nay.
  5. High wind sailing is about depowering your rig. flattening your sail and twisting off the top so that you can blow off power. The few times, I set up a getaway for rec sailors.... I did not think it would depower effectively. Usually, the owners regulate themselves by not sailing in much breeze. You should check this out before purchasing. I am not an expert or sailor of this design. .... The other key feature is how much weight you need to right the boat.... assuming you dump it and don't allow the boat to blow away from you. Final point... make sure you can climb onto the boat from the water..... You might look into a Dart 18 (if you can find one on the west coast) It will sail well single handed in breeze with just the pin head main.... and it has less sail area then most 16 footers. Like the Getaway... its a skeg design. Also check out a new build.. the small Nacra rec boat... 4.50 I think.
  6. hmm... might start at the bottom and figure out a way to get more woman helms. Plenty of woman are competitive in golf and tennis as life time sports, so the issue is not competition per se... Sking is probably more recreational then competitive... and they have lots of woman on the slopes. Being the helm gives you a sense of control and gets you to invest in the sport and then into building a team and so on and so on. IMO, a major hurdle is the need to be mechanically handy to keep the boat race ready as an individual owner. I bet a club setting that maintained a club fleet would be the optimal way to get woman taking on driving their own boats.
  7. I agree the framework is coming along .... the devil is in the details. Lets support Malcom Paige... He has made a huge change in the coaching area replacing an untouchable with himself last week... Re College sailing.... I agree... I don't expect college sailing to change equipment or focus of the game.... My idea is to add to it... by allowing funded juniors to bank scholarships and cash while sailing in Olympic and Olympic development classes (that is the kids folks!).... There would be changes for College sailing... but not to college sailing. We are talking at most 100 sailors... probably less with many team members out of college So far, the argument against my idea is.... The momentum of HATE keeping cash out of collegiate activities because of the precedent it would set for BBall football and other money makers or some antiquated sense of amateurism.. .... Well.... so be it... its a fight.. (sticking it to the NCAA is a feature... not a bug) Sailing has been trying to resolve the paid versus non paid sailor issue for ever.... Why should this area be any different.
  8. ah. sorry..... I was responding to a couple of posts. I get it ... My point was.... the system you went through is tough. You spent a lot of time an energy.... and you returned to the sport. I would characterize your history as ... "you took a break from sailing and return to competitive sailing at some level." THIS is a great outcome and speaks to a proper system at work. Many people opine that the olympic pathway burns up sailors.... Burnout is almost a certain outcome and the olympic system (of most countries) itself is at fault AND the fundamental problem/issue with many rank and file sailors is that the whole process is bad for recreational competitive racing. Somehow... we would be better off as a sport without Olympic classes as the pinnacle of the sport. The USA is trying to build pathways as well... Our collegiate sailing system is a major factor. Culture is a bit different etc... Time to go to school on the UK pathway... AND appreciate the fundamentals that makes it work.... the point that you make is that non squad members can participate is a key point. The culture has been... that sailors may toy with olympic classes... but really don't commit until they graduate from college.... The bar is now so high that this strategy won't win medals. And that is not the objective here. There is a hell of an important baby here... and we must be careful not to throw her out with the bath water. Point two... it matters to rank and file racing in non obvious ways.
  9. Wow, Thanks for sharing your story. Your journey is exactly what you want the organization of the sport to accomplish. When you wanted to.... there were opportunities to compete in sailing that you found value in. Outstanding. I think your experience answers the big question... why do we need Olympic sailing at all? I believe that fundamental to any sport is competing and winning at the very pinnacle of the game. Sailing, being an Olympic sport raises the pinnacle to be truly global. The thread pulling all of us forward as competitive sailors may seem invisible but it is essential in inspiring each competitor to take the next step and providing value to us in our efforts as we go.. In a sense, this thread is more metaphysical then actually mechanical but it is essential. GBR followed that pull for as long as it was practical as part of his country's system.. Gary Jobson framed the question as... If you are at all inspired by an Olympic level competitor, consider the impact on a kid and for that reason alone you should support the system of organized sailing. (US sailing in the states) I believe that building an olympic pathway that is fair and inclusive and successful has value to every competitive aspect in our game. Building a structure to support recreational competitive sailing is equally important. Being crystal clear on what the expectations and promises are in each game are is essential to avoid the upset.... (eg the HA!... olympic sailing is a waste of time money, its rigged, etc etc etc .... who cares...) The Olympic pathway will not fill up the ranks of recreational sailors post campaigning. . Its contribution to recreational racing is more metaphysical then mechanical. Nor will a pyramid of recreational sailors competing reliably deliver an ultimate performance at the pinnacle of the sport. GBR's experience is a great outcome. An outcome the system would love to see as many competitors take. Everyone is human and it's tough.... The fact that many olympic competitors have strong feelings or don't rejoin competitive sailing is not evidence of a problem or the wrong system. So, us rank and file sailors need to support olympic athletes and olympic sailing by making sure the Equipment they have to use is of good value and rewards superior sailing. The equipment playing field is scrupulously fair and minimizes the gamesmanship that will arise. We need to make sure that the development and selection systems are transparent and fair. We have a stewardship role here. We are supporting the essential value of that metaphysical thread that pulls towards excellence and is in some part present... even in the wed night beer can race! We might not see many sailors rejoin or join the ranks of recreational sailors... but that is not what we should expect. Stories like GBR's are evidence supporting how the system should work For the USA... we need to recognize how demanding international sailing success is and remove the barriers and hurdles for those young sailors who want to compete (the College sailing issue) and as Malcom Paige noted.... If we can't generate fans out of the legion of sailboat racers in the country... we won't be able to get support from the average john q public member. So.... fandom is important. Thanks GBR... Your experience is inspiring!
  10. Which one would be more effective?
  11. In the US, the answer would be a resounding YES. Because they adopted a massive assym spinnaker about 5-7 years ago. But Im not sure what that has to do with the benefits of pooling the two systems into one system. This is the exact problem in managing two systems.... The coding issue is one of the major problems. One of the last events I scored had a local fleet of Chesapeake 20s competing in a distance race. A Chesapeake 20 is a local design, two person dinghy with a Star Rig. Native to the Western shore of the bay. The USPN table listed a Chesapeake Dinghy. That is the rating used for the past 15 or so years... and coincidentally the 20's usually won the distance race until A cats started competing. Having been on the PN Committee... I don't remember seeing PN Data for anything called Chesapeake.... So, a conversation with an old timer from the EASTERN shore.... yielded... OH.. Yeah.... we had a Chesapeake dinghy when I was a kid... it was a precurser to the laser... you know... single handed dinghy.. Ooops.. The coding problems are an issue between the left shore and the right shore of the same bay.... So, I can't imagine the issues between either side of the pond. It's a wonderful idea... but the devil is in the details.
  12. "does not allow/encourage olympic development".... NO.... cannot be.... they SAY they are fully supportive. To your proposal So... 10 olympic classes (boards, Lasers, Finn) at 5 developmental team members would be 25 athletes at 5 per team. Double handed dinghys skiffs multis. at 3 teams per is 30 more athletes. So... you have 55 athletes max on the teams and perhaps 45 more who would love an invite... that is at most 100 athletes... I don't see the pressure on ICSA that would change their policies for those 100 athletes. Change the rules and let those that can get some outside funding continue competing within ICSA . This seems more likely then your idea. What am I missing?
  13. three points.. not competing against the next best pro. to each their own.... In BBall.... you can select a less competitive school to play intercollegiate xxx in. The "maintain the competition levels" or "lets have a level playing field" is a bit self serving for the school and the athlete. IMO, Pick your level and play full out. Post College.... there are plenty of Bball leagues at all levels to play for fun (after school)... Sailing sorts us into OD classes and pro/am. ONCE UPON A TIME.... the Olympics were for amateur (cough cough cough) athletes.... just saying to be wary of rules that control the competition. RE... burnout or dissatisfied kids matriculating into the club scene as life long racers.... oh wow... if we only had that as our biggest problem... I don't have a clue... so.... I take the point of view.... it is what it is.... I also can't think of any club scene that would not want skilled racers participating. Removing the college mentality..... Well that is the challenge.... I don't think you can take away any thing from college sailing and the parental/student mindset...and make a difference. History provides the data.... So time for some changes... I propose rule changes that add to the game by removing any perceived penalty .... (short and long term) ... the idea is... adjust the incentives to align with international competition. I would love to consider other alternatives.... but continuing with no changes would be insane... if you expect a different outcome. Malcom Paige is making some changes in the USA.... I hope he has a better solutions then the past and look forward to seeing what he has in mind.
  14. True... but they follow the same principles.... And... for institutions... they have Title 9 requirements to balance... So it is complicated... .... for this discussion see C420s chair morgan's advice to 420 sailors about money and their junior sailing career. hmmm Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again..... I am looking for ideas that might realign incentives. Otherwise.... no worries... sailing is a lovely pastime and we won't compete on the international level.
  15. not quite.... the elite... world class basketball players are one and done.... and that is ONLY because the NCAA and the NBA cut a deal to force the top talent into the basketball factories to play for a scholarship... not a salary. Now, If they wash out of the pro leagues... they can't take a college scholarship at 25 or 26 and play ball in college (paying off their scholarship by giving the team wins). The strategy would be that the top sailors are ID'd in juniors and get sucked into the elite training programs (aka the NBA of sailing). The second tier of sailors would go off and sail in college and perhaps return to international competition as they do currently. ... The flaw of course is the families of sailors are generally well off because we are talking about sailing or rowing ... not B Ball.... and they don't want their kid missing out on scholarships/admission to elite colleges. My solution would be pull college sailing out of the NCAA rules and allow the kids who take their shot at elite international training and competition, get paid while competing etc. Then, when they decide to move on after a few years on the circuit... they can actually be admitted with a scholarship (for schools that do this in sailing). We are talking a very small number of athletes here. For those that worry about silliness like competitive imbalance, I offer up the UConn womans basketball team.... they might loose 4 games every 4 years they are so dominant. Another solution would be to encourage colleges to offer admission with the right to defer admission for up to 4 years.... and not be penalized for getting paid to be on the US sailing team. Changing the system would recognize that the critical period between 16/17 to 21/22 can't be missed in order to succeed at the world class level and win medals.