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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

Lake Shark

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    boats, babes, and brews
  1. Do you think because the manufacturer has an agreement with a company to be the sole supplier of class legal equipment that means they should take advantage of the monopoly and send the price through the roof? It's a fucking dacron sail stitched together in sri lanka its not like its they invented some brand new technology. The fact that intensity hasn't folded even though a laser sail from them is 170 dollars versus 605 for the class legal one just goes to show how out of hand this class legal one design bullshit has gotten.
  2. what if the undocumented mexican is being paid to sail?? Big AG is just a cover for rich boat owners clean should do some investigative journalism.
  3. I don't think you are ever going to get college sailing to come around and start putting kids in skiffs and cats, much less convincing them to do it within a quad, you also can't exactly just pluck the best college sailors out class during the winter and ship them off to miami for the winter to train in olympic boats. USS is going to have to develop its own pathway and the funny thing is they already have the basic frame work set up. The country is already divided into different areas that it uses to decide on things like the Chubb championship, if USS could get 1-2 youth programs in each region to buy into doing high performance sailing the same way they have already bought into optis and 420s there could be a huge pipeline of sailors at the ready.
  4. With how fucking huge Australia is why wouldn't you just do a drop somewhere in the middle of no where. There's a highway that goes around the permimiter of the whole country right? I can't imagine if you had one 300 mil in blow you would try to sail right into a Harbour. Everyone knows smuggling through containers is for the government only
  5. You have to register it as a separate entity under a 501c(3) and getting a board of directors who are interested in promoting junior sailing especially if you end up charging and enrolling non club members. There are several good reasons for this 1) it gets really iffy if you start running a business as a private membership club tax wise 2) there may be support for a youth program in your clubs current leadership now but will there be in 2 years? 5? 10? 3) being your own entirety gives you freedom to do what you believe is right without having to please club members whose interests might not align with promoting junior sailing. 4) keeps the club from raiding profits from junior sailing that should be reinvested into the program to keep other costs low for the membership base. Aside from that the best place to start is to get a volunteer level 1 certiefied by us sailing and on their insurance plan. Beginner prams make a killing as it's usually cheaper than day care. It's a great way to generate revenue and invest in 420s and lasers as the kids in the program get older starting a high school sailing team is a bit more capital intensive due to the boats involved being more expensive. Whether you focus on racing or adventure sailing it's important to remember you are running a business even if all your instructors are volunteers. Every boat is a depreciating asset and it's easy to sink a program by doin everything on the cheap
  6. And the solution And the big question for the USA ... DO WE CARE about international success at this sport.... or are we content with participating at the country club level? Note that rowing in the UK and sailing in the US and Canada are not really the same beast. I've not had a chance to read the US Rowing report, but something to know about the UK's rowing system to which they are referring here is that it's very intense and still maintains a huge amount of grass-roots support. The British system for talent identification and streaming is quite spectacular, and rowing is no exception, so you have a strong group of top level rowers showing off the country on a stage that is in the public eye (rowing is covered in the general media reasonably regularly). At the club level, they have a density that's spectacular, and anywhere you can row on is used, even rivers that are too narrow to turn the boats around in (they have spinning spots every once in a while that are just about wide enough). This means that there are local competitions all summer that are well attended (a few hundred competitors is a standard weekend) and you can probably race every other weekend without driving more than an hour or two if you're reasonably centrally located. Unfortunately sailing in the US and NA in general isn't there on either of these fronts. We don't have sailors who regularly make it into the mainstream news and we don't have close-packed facilities that allow fleet racing every weekend without significant travel. Never mind that the costs for a club rower in the UK are a small fraction of joining a sailing club around here (I paid less than 200USD for a membership which included access to a fleet of boats, equipment, and facilities while I was there, it was cheaper than a gym membership). If you want to grow and compare yourself to a system that thrives on a critical density, you need to get at least close to that density first. Then you'll see increased participation, talent floating to the top, etc. Of course it's much harder to get there than be there, success breeds success and all that. Everything I read about the british system makes it seem like their rowing and sailing are set up similar to our soccer and basketball teams in that I could google some moderate sized town + youth sailing and get a dozen results of clubs in the area and a full schedule of practice and regattas a clear pathway of u12 u14 u16 u18 how much its going to cost and whatever else. Try doing it with sailing in the US and while there are some great programs out there that are up front and inviting they are usually very far away from each other making meaningful competition expensive. But how many youth programs are hidden away on some bougie yacht club website that wont mention prices or are only open to members. How many of these programs are at clubs with memberships who don't really care about youth sailing or are even actively against it. There are 2.5 million people in the city I live in and multiple yacht clubs, there is exactly 1 youth sailing program, there are 20 youth soccer clubs.
  7. And the solution And the big question for the USA ... DO WE CARE about international success at this sport.... or are we content with participating at the country club level? it depends on what theory you ascribe to... Is it better to groom the hell out of those that don't burn out, or to have a healthy club atmosphere and those that rise to the top can be groomed. I saw it in the 29er. I like the boat because its a lot more fun to sail than the 420. I'm closing in on 30yo and i still love the 29er. If a few other old people want to get an old people's class together i'd be all-in. Especially now that we can finally adjust the damn rig on the water..... But, back when i was actively racing the boat, there were certain sailors and parents that only saw it as a pre-olympics path and didn't care a whole lot about trying to promote it locally in the states. They saw it as this elite thing that if you weren't on the path, why be in the boat? I think if we have a healthy home fleet of quality racers, we will do better on the olympic stage, in all fleets. That mentality is still in the class but at least now it is actively being addressed and steps are being made to open up the class to all ability levels and just getting kids interested in skiff sailing. The problem is all it takes is a few parents who think their kids are too good to sail with the others that can set regional growth back several years
  8. That would mean an Obstruction ( a shoaling area) was near. If a boat drawing 6 to 8 foot was so close to the shore or reef, they are idiots. Why do you make excuses for bad seamanship. So now we are obligated to tack just because the Ed hails for room because he is an asshole???? Sailing is headed down the path of the Dark Side. I'm not sure I like this WS BS. Seems like they are designing the rules for the Euro and NE USS bay sailing. Most of this crap does not apply to the areas that sail in open waters. But these are the rules. Just yell I need to tack. ... that's literally the whole point of the rule . Yelling that you need to tack is just that bitching and moaning hailing that you need room to tack to avoid an obstruction is a different rule and lying about said obstruction is breaking a different rule. This has also been the rule since at least 2012 and most likely earlier but I can't remember that far back.
  9. The Ben Ainsley case really shouldn't be factored into the discussion, pro atheletes have always gotten to play by a different set of rules, it's why charging the mound is a fine and minor suspension at most in the majors versus being banned from competition in your adult softball league. There are probably many 69 worthy incidents every year but at the end of the day it's a self governing sport think about how hard your buddy would have to fuck up for you to ban him from sailing. It's not like most other organized sports where there is a neutral third party ref that the governing body gives power to.
  10. Wouldn't it make more sense to run the retrieval line through a pulley system and create like a 1:6 system with a pumper?
  11. I doubt this will effect sailors at all. It seems more the intention was to have a way to punish support boats who in the past have pretty much been able to disregard PROs request for distance and speed from the race courses. Although rule 2 really probably should have been used more in terms of competitors calling each other cock suckers and what not
  12. They built new boats for worlds in mexico, some got sold to dealers and the others got shipped off to college and high school nationals. They had the new mark 2 sail on them but not the new top section.
  13. What your generation needs to worry about it paragraphs, mate. But your other points are spot on. "Youth Sailing" as it exists in the U.S. today is incredibly structured. First optis for 4 years, then 420s, then high school, then college. Young sailors in america have the first 15 years of their sailing career laid out for them like a roadmap. First you do this, then you do that. Within that plan, there is very little deviation which teaches skills outside of dinghy sailing. You could spend the whole time sailing dinghies and never touch anything outside of that space without losing a single second on the water. But then the train ends, like a rock. Kids graduate college and all of a sudden its up to them to make their next thing happen. All of a sudden, whether they go sailing that week depends on networking and finding someone willing to take them out. All of this without heaps of skills to market themselves with. Combine that double whammy with a professional world which is increasingly time demanding and rising costs of living in cities everywhere. It's no wonder the sport exists at all. The tyranny of dinghy sailing as the "only way" is why we have booming junior sailing numbers and dismal retention numbers. I don't think it's the tyranny of dinghy sailors more so that running a youth keel boat program am is fuckin expensive for the number of kids it gets on the water you can buy 6 used 420s FJs whatever from a program turning over their fleet for around 30k and get 12 kids on the water in boats that can be dollied around and not take up much space. Compare that to getting say two used j/105s. If you want kids sailing big boats your club members with big boats need to invite them out.
  14. LP can get fucked it seems the only business they are interested in is holding onto the college sailing game. Ordered several 420s from them in the past and when they were delivered there were air bubbles in the lay up after an unsatisfactory response I said never again. I don't understand why the sailing world keeps working with them when we have Zim, Whitecap, Rondar, RS, Weta, etc. oh yeah its because some outdated toy that people swear by.
  15. Well, to speak on the last paragraph of if youth sailing will ever change I can only offer this. Change in the sailing world and most of the real world happens at a glacial pace. When I learned to sail in the 90s-00s our region had its on special boat that most on here would call CPS if they saw parents putting their kids in the thing. It was twice expensive and twice as heavy as a 420 with less sail area and no spin and trap but god damnit that's what granddad sailed so when a well intentioned program director brought in these new fangled 420s from the east coast the parents had a god damn riot. They go to fast, this trapeze thing looks dangerous, we don't have any coaches etc. so we sailed them white sails at first and a few adventurous kids got to use the spin and trap. Then we got 5-6 to show up for weekly regattas and a few more next year and so on then once our initial group graduated and sailed in college and came back to coach the snow ball effect took off and we started having 20-30 boat regattas just with area clubs within 15 minutes of each other. But that process took YEARS. I think my sailing school got its first 420 when I was 12 it wasn't until I was in my early 20s that the region switched over and had massive growth. I didn't get the benefits of sailing in these large fleets but the kids I worked with did which was worth it on its own. The other issue is that people will only teach what they know and scholastic sailing in the US has been dumbed down to a level so basic that it is near impossible for some areas to move forward into higher performance boats or even teach a club 420 because the knowledge base simply isn't there and there is an unwillingness to venture into the unknown. This isn't supposed to be a knock on scholastic style sailing, it does a wonderful job of getting new sailors into the sport even if it does not teach advanced sailing ideas. But if all your programs coaches only know white sails boats because that's what they grew up on then it will take quite a long time and quite a bit of effort to advance into more fun boats.