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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Lake Shark

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    boats, babes, and brews
  1. From FP kids getting killed

    How is US Sailing supposed to stop these things? Send inspectors around to observe programs and revoke their status? How are they going to check thousands of programs in nine weeks? Most programs are already at the mercy of their clubs membership who may not always want things ran the way US Sailing recommends, some might even see splitting from US Sailing as a benefit. There are not very many stand alone educational sailing organizations that have the luxury of not going through endless bureaucracy to change up their safety policies every year or the resources to make substantial change. There's not much US Sailing can do but shrug and say "make sure your instructors are not being negligent" Several years ago there was a very prominent story of a kid who got checked from behind in a hockey game and was paralyzed from the neck down. Kids still play hockey last I checked.
  2. Sailing Helmets

    I don't wear one, I think the issue is important but blown out of proportion by uninformed and overly cautious parents. I've had a parent claim to me their sailor became a better laser sailor once they started wearing a helmet because now they no longer worry about the boom in a tack they just let it whack them in the head whenever they go "no concussion no problem" ignoring the fact that these repeated non concussive strikes are what lead to CTE.
  3. RS Neo

    How would you say it compares to an el toro or sabot? The common knowledge seems to be the venture is comparable to a thistle. Interesting to see how these newer boats stack up to classics.
  4. Tragic youth sailing accident

    Jumping to conclusions and saying a prop guard would have saved the kid is irresponsible at this point, a prop guard does not make being run over by a motorboat instantly non fatal. There are many factors that could be involved that we simply don't know based on early reporting. With that said I have been coaching for 10 years now and worked with many different programs all over the US. USS level 1 does go over motorboat safety and there is a skills test that must be passed, One of the instructor trainers in my current region is notorious for failing trainees on their motorboat skills and all the other IT's I have met I have held in very high regard.
  5. RS Aero 9 Sail - How to Buy Cheap?

    Do you think because the manufacturer has an agreement with a company to be the sole supplier of class legal equipment that means they should take advantage of the monopoly and send the price through the roof? It's a fucking dacron sail stitched together in sri lanka its not like its they invented some brand new technology. The fact that intensity hasn't folded even though a laser sail from them is 170 dollars versus 605 for the class legal one just goes to show how out of hand this class legal one design bullshit has gotten.
  6. zero the hero

    what if the undocumented mexican is being paid to sail?? Big AG is just a cover for rich boat owners clean should do some investigative journalism.
  7. 2016 Olympic Games

    I don't think you are ever going to get college sailing to come around and start putting kids in skiffs and cats, much less convincing them to do it within a quad, you also can't exactly just pluck the best college sailors out class during the winter and ship them off to miami for the winter to train in olympic boats. USS is going to have to develop its own pathway and the funny thing is they already have the basic frame work set up. The country is already divided into different areas that it uses to decide on things like the Chubb championship, if USS could get 1-2 youth programs in each region to buy into doing high performance sailing the same way they have already bought into optis and 420s there could be a huge pipeline of sailors at the ready.
  8. With how fucking huge Australia is why wouldn't you just do a drop somewhere in the middle of no where. There's a highway that goes around the permimiter of the whole country right? I can't imagine if you had one 300 mil in blow you would try to sail right into a Harbour. Everyone knows smuggling through containers is for the government only
  9. Starting a Junior Sailing Program

    You have to register it as a separate entity under a 501c(3) and getting a board of directors who are interested in promoting junior sailing especially if you end up charging and enrolling non club members. There are several good reasons for this 1) it gets really iffy if you start running a business as a private membership club tax wise 2) there may be support for a youth program in your clubs current leadership now but will there be in 2 years? 5? 10? 3) being your own entirety gives you freedom to do what you believe is right without having to please club members whose interests might not align with promoting junior sailing. 4) keeps the club from raiding profits from junior sailing that should be reinvested into the program to keep other costs low for the membership base. Aside from that the best place to start is to get a volunteer level 1 certiefied by us sailing and on their insurance plan. Beginner prams make a killing as it's usually cheaper than day care. It's a great way to generate revenue and invest in 420s and lasers as the kids in the program get older starting a high school sailing team is a bit more capital intensive due to the boats involved being more expensive. Whether you focus on racing or adventure sailing it's important to remember you are running a business even if all your instructors are volunteers. Every boat is a depreciating asset and it's easy to sink a program by doin everything on the cheap
  10. 2016 Olympic Games

    And the solution And the big question for the USA ... DO WE CARE about international success at this sport.... or are we content with participating at the country club level? Note that rowing in the UK and sailing in the US and Canada are not really the same beast. I've not had a chance to read the US Rowing report, but something to know about the UK's rowing system to which they are referring here is that it's very intense and still maintains a huge amount of grass-roots support. The British system for talent identification and streaming is quite spectacular, and rowing is no exception, so you have a strong group of top level rowers showing off the country on a stage that is in the public eye (rowing is covered in the general media reasonably regularly). At the club level, they have a density that's spectacular, and anywhere you can row on is used, even rivers that are too narrow to turn the boats around in (they have spinning spots every once in a while that are just about wide enough). This means that there are local competitions all summer that are well attended (a few hundred competitors is a standard weekend) and you can probably race every other weekend without driving more than an hour or two if you're reasonably centrally located. Unfortunately sailing in the US and NA in general isn't there on either of these fronts. We don't have sailors who regularly make it into the mainstream news and we don't have close-packed facilities that allow fleet racing every weekend without significant travel. Never mind that the costs for a club rower in the UK are a small fraction of joining a sailing club around here (I paid less than 200USD for a membership which included access to a fleet of boats, equipment, and facilities while I was there, it was cheaper than a gym membership). If you want to grow and compare yourself to a system that thrives on a critical density, you need to get at least close to that density first. Then you'll see increased participation, talent floating to the top, etc. Of course it's much harder to get there than be there, success breeds success and all that. Everything I read about the british system makes it seem like their rowing and sailing are set up similar to our soccer and basketball teams in that I could google some moderate sized town + youth sailing and get a dozen results of clubs in the area and a full schedule of practice and regattas a clear pathway of u12 u14 u16 u18 how much its going to cost and whatever else. Try doing it with sailing in the US and while there are some great programs out there that are up front and inviting they are usually very far away from each other making meaningful competition expensive. But how many youth programs are hidden away on some bougie yacht club website that wont mention prices or are only open to members. How many of these programs are at clubs with memberships who don't really care about youth sailing or are even actively against it. There are 2.5 million people in the city I live in and multiple yacht clubs, there is exactly 1 youth sailing program, there are 20 youth soccer clubs.
  11. 2016 Olympic Games

    And the solution And the big question for the USA ... DO WE CARE about international success at this sport.... or are we content with participating at the country club level? it depends on what theory you ascribe to... Is it better to groom the hell out of those that don't burn out, or to have a healthy club atmosphere and those that rise to the top can be groomed. I saw it in the 29er. I like the boat because its a lot more fun to sail than the 420. I'm closing in on 30yo and i still love the 29er. If a few other old people want to get an old people's class together i'd be all-in. Especially now that we can finally adjust the damn rig on the water..... But, back when i was actively racing the boat, there were certain sailors and parents that only saw it as a pre-olympics path and didn't care a whole lot about trying to promote it locally in the states. They saw it as this elite thing that if you weren't on the path, why be in the boat? I think if we have a healthy home fleet of quality racers, we will do better on the olympic stage, in all fleets. That mentality is still in the class but at least now it is actively being addressed and steps are being made to open up the class to all ability levels and just getting kids interested in skiff sailing. The problem is all it takes is a few parents who think their kids are too good to sail with the others that can set regional growth back several years
  12. RRS 20 hail when no Obstruction

    That would mean an Obstruction ( a shoaling area) was near. If a boat drawing 6 to 8 foot was so close to the shore or reef, they are idiots. Why do you make excuses for bad seamanship. So now we are obligated to tack just because the Ed hails for room because he is an asshole???? Sailing is headed down the path of the Dark Side. I'm not sure I like this WS BS. Seems like they are designing the rules for the Euro and NE USS bay sailing. Most of this crap does not apply to the areas that sail in open waters. But these are the rules. Just yell I need to tack. ... that's literally the whole point of the rule . Yelling that you need to tack is just that bitching and moaning hailing that you need room to tack to avoid an obstruction is a different rule and lying about said obstruction is breaking a different rule. This has also been the rule since at least 2012 and most likely earlier but I can't remember that far back.
  13. 2017 Rules Rule 69

    The Ben Ainsley case really shouldn't be factored into the discussion, pro atheletes have always gotten to play by a different set of rules, it's why charging the mound is a fine and minor suspension at most in the majors versus being banned from competition in your adult softball league. There are probably many 69 worthy incidents every year but at the end of the day it's a self governing sport think about how hard your buddy would have to fuck up for you to ban him from sailing. It's not like most other organized sports where there is a neutral third party ref that the governing body gives power to.
  14. Bungy kite take down?

    Wouldn't it make more sense to run the retrieval line through a pulley system and create like a 1:6 system with a pumper?
  15. 2017 Rules Rule 69

    I doubt this will effect sailors at all. It seems more the intention was to have a way to punish support boats who in the past have pretty much been able to disregard PROs request for distance and speed from the race courses. Although rule 2 really probably should have been used more in terms of competitors calling each other cock suckers and what not