• Announcements

    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

      After fifteen years of volunteer moderation at SA, I will no longer be part of the moderation team. The decision to step aside is mine, and has been some time in the works but we did not wish to announce it in advance for a number of reasons. It's been fun, but I need my time back for other purposes now. The Underdawg admin account will not be monitored until further notice, as I will be relinquishing control of it along with my administrative privileges. Zapata will continue on as a moderator, and any concerns or issues can be directed to that account or to the Editor until further notice. Anyone interested in helping moderate the forums should reach out to Scot by sending a PM to the Editor account. Please note that I am not leaving the community, I am merely stepping aside from Admin responsibilities and privileges on the site.

yarboat

Members
  • Content count

    54
  • Joined

  • Last visited

About yarboat

  • Rank
    Member

Profile Information

  • Location
    San Francisco Bay
  • Interests
    sailing - rigging - deliveries - bay and ocean racing/cruising - navigation - astronomy
  1. Good summary ... and partly this was because I didn't have to listen to GJ reading his own words. I do hope I will never have to do so again .... please??
  2. Monster Mash
  3. 1. Fast is fun, but so are lots of other things. I always enjoyed the old boats, and I will enjoy any new boats - because actually its not the fast that attracts me to this game but everything around it. I am quite happy for them to continue in cats, but only with decent numbers, match racing and leading edge design and technology. I don't see where the need for people to be at risk as a central aspect of the sport comes into this. 2. Insinuating... You are just blathering so I'm not going to bother to respond So the AC, VOR, Hydroptere, all other forms of off-shore sailing, NASCAR, F1, boxing, wrestling, Alpine Skiing, etc... should all be stopped based on your conception of moral hazard? And comparing an AC72 to Russian roulette is a piss poor analogy. WetHog You will find that in all those sports (apart from boxing probably) the occurrence of deaths was not treated lightly and romanticised as a necessary aspect of people taking part, and major changes occurred to ensure that the cause of death was identified and removed. Here the cause of death is the boat itself (yeah blah blah structural failure etc - the boat itself is too complex, fragile and difficult to sail). Russian roulette was an illustration not an analogy. I used it to help you understand that you don't escape moral responsibility for someone else's actions simply because they accept the conditions you offer. I don't think that the AC is Russian roulette, but I would have to say that if AR go out again it wouldn't be dissimilar. AR's boat was dangerous based on numerous structural issues that led to a catostrophic failure, but the other 5 AC72s have been sound for the most part. So what is dangerous about the design besides speed? WetHog Let's see .... just off the top of my head Excepting the Artemis incident as you point out; Because the sheer height and mass of the wing on a 45 or 72 gives it inherent energy potential, gravity makes it more dangerous. Each capsize replay of an AC45 and the OR72 pitchpole I've watched on video looked plenty dangerous - especially to anyone in the vicinity. I'd hate to imagine any of these cats losing rudder control near a group of us spectators on shore. Perhaps the capsized crew members themselves are actually at a lesser risk of being hit by their own wing ... and mostly at risk of falling the 10 to 20 feet (or more?) onto their own capsized wing as has been mentioned many times. It's interesting to again note that each capsize so far seemed to execute rather slowly (almost in slow motion I would say) ... which could conceivably allow a bit of maneuvering room should two boats be close to one another at the time. However, they would have to be as lucky as Spithill was during the AC45 capsize shortly after an ACWS start which very nearly smashed the OR wing into another AC45 last fall. In any case, if I were sailing in the vicinity (say within 40 meters/ 130 feet) of a capsizing AC72 and be unlucky enough to be hit by a falling wing, well ... at best, it would be extremely dicey. Due to the slowness that the wings seem to fall (I admit here the relative slowness of the arc of a falling 130 foot wing is not a reassuring statistic ... even to think about!), perhaps it would not be quite as dangerous as many non-sailors (and many monohull sailors) would at first assume ... but could very well be deadly. In fact, deadly and at least injurious a good percentage of the time ... given the water element involved, confusion, disorientation and the spaghetti bowl of lines and rigging now mingling with crew, carbon bits, air bottles, PFDs, radios, etc. I myself picked up many broken pieces of the OR wing after they were washed ashore on Ocean Beach last October and there were many thin, razor sharp carbon and aluminum edges exposed. Also, a dismasting can ruin your whole day! I was going to say a "simple" dismasting. But a "diswinging" is anything but simple! I think a dismasted wing would probably be more dangerous than a typical broken mast. The sheer mass of even an AC45 wing would be devastating to anyone below it. I've been dismasted at night on a Hunter 54 off Big Sur and it was terrifying enough just to survive cutting the entire rig loose. With masthead floats and extra emergency floatation carried by the rescue teams, I think the danger of a "diswinged" 72 could be minimized inside the Bay. Very, very difficult to cut the wing loose in more than a very modest ocean swell though. I think that if the teams don't have a "quick" way of cutting the wing loose, it might be prudent to develop one. Many here I'm sure have experienced a 4 to 6 foot swell inside the Bay entrance at times. Occasionally the ocean swells can extend all the way through the race course to Alcatraz and beyond. It's now apparent that if there is any ebb at all and there is at least a 15 knot westerly during these times, I'd say it's going to make it very difficult to execute a rescue. In a monohull, there is (so far at least) somewhat less risk in the same situation. Suppose the ACRM is forced to call a race because of a 6 foot ocean swell coming well into the Bay? How do you think an AC72 would handle a big swell? Is the inertia of the wing much of a factor? I guess thwy could move the windward gate pretty far east ... but how far? The foils have been mentioned as an additional hazard. It occurs to me as you have asked "why more dangerous?" ... the curved foils pose something of a threat to someone falling overboard. Even at only 10 knots of boat speed, there is tremendous force there. Thus, I would suggest (more of a guess really) that there is a distinct danger presented by the existing foils at almost any speed over 2 or 3 knots. So yes, that is one area unrelated to "high" speed sailing that is risky on a current AC72. Those foils do look awfully sharp BTW! For that matter, having a foil hit any somewhat heavy ... mostly submerged object will be ... quite a learning experience for sure. What will happen at 40 knots? ... 20 knots? ... 10 knots? And yes, for the record I acknowledge sailing is a somewhat risky sport. As for me, that is one reason I can say I enjoy "risking it" ... in the same way that I enjoy hiking to Angels Landing at Zion National Park, etc. But I'm not going to turn down a ride on a 72 or a 45, if it is ever offered. There are always many factors and ways to entertain risk in all of life ... and none of us make it out alive. But I don't creep out about it. These craft are miraculous machines to behold! As things develop, in a few more years, we will have been damn fortunate to have watched this all unfold. Maybe Artemis have given us a door to crack open in a way? ... and each in our own way.