Otterbox

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Everything posted by Otterbox

  1. It seems that Bruce Kirby has at last applied a blow torch Having been through the almost 150 pages of documents presented to the US Federal Court, over a long wet weekend here in the UK, I will not be the least surprised if ISAF decides its needs to back away from its previous position. The 1992 ISAF plaque agreement is so simple even this non-lawyer can understand it. And the 1983 original agreement with the IYRU is too. It would not be hard to imagine in the next week a direction from ISAF to the ILCA to stop issuing plaques to LP. If that happens then we are in a new world. Its been proven many times over that One Design racing does not have to be in the fastest boat, it has to be in a uniform boat, so that the very best sailor emerges from the pack. We have 200k+ of a 1969 design, so it has critical mass. I sat on Nothe Hill in Weymouth and I saw young Australian Tom Slingsby win Gold. The best sailor emerged from the pack. As a Laser sailor I was in awe. Right now the class needs to move forward, I don't care if its called a Laser or a Torch, if the class insignia is upside down (thanks Torrid) I just want to go sailing, I want to be able to buy a new boat, buy parts and I want to know that the class is run by honourable people and by builders who pay their design royalties to the guy who designed it.. And yes I want a cheaper legal sail Am I alone??
  2. It is unclear to me, having read the ruling if Laser Performance is now required to sell the Laser plugs, moulds and other tooling? Anyone had any conversations with any of the players that shed light on this?
  3. Sales of Carnet goods (in your terms on a visitors pass) happens routinely, the organisation involved with the importation of goods into a country including Canada, has to declare an intended sale with the relevant Customs department and pay the previous waived import duties. There are no penalty rates if normal procedures are followed.
  4. Hmm, does anyone know the voting from the German Class Association went, also Italy?
  5. Surprised but seeing the 79/21 vote, it does appear that LPE has taken to heart the advice from Charles Caleb Colton ´ When you got nothing to say, say nothing' Although you would not imagine that will last too long
  6. Has the German Laser Class Association verified the votes from its region yet? Last I hear they were not cooperating
  7. Otterbox

    Absolutely, positively Laser

    Which countries are lagging?
  8. Otterbox

    Absolutely, positively Laser

    Did all regions of the world cooperate with ILCA and verify the votes from their sailors?
  9. I have been told that Canadian law is similar to our Brtish law that frivolous legal action is itself illegal, unlike US. law where parties can be tied up in the courts for no good reason, by a vexacious litigant. So I suspect that the suggestion that litigation might be brought to bear in Canada is an idle one.
  10. Allegedly LPE says they refused to allow their production to be inspected, because ILCA refused to sign. So, it seems, they really wanted it signed to control the scene? ILCA Council, including Europeans presumably decided not to sign it? Can someone ask them all for comments? .
  11. The Word version listed author by name, as best I can tell this is the agreement that LPE has been complaining that ILCA was refusing to sign. Waiting for someone with expertise in these things to detail what it would all mean if it had been signed.
  12. I think this is the document that ILCA refused to sign. Look at the date, it fits with what I have heard, it appears the author is a trademark attorney, that's what a Google search just told me. It came to me anon.
  13. ILCA Trademark Agreement August 2018.docx Look at this!!!!
  14. Hang on a minute. Did I not read earlier that the agreement LPE wanted to sign was very very anti-FRAND and that LPE was refusing to even talk about the need for the class to become FRAND? If that is the case, then the Spanish and Italians do not care if the dinghy is out of Olympic equipment contention? Does anyone have a copy of the LPE agreement, so everyone can see the whole picture?
  15. Otterbox

    Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

    Given there is so much information on this thread, maybe its a good idea, I wonder if Scot would do it?
  16. Otterbox

    Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

    That is a very good question , what do you think? Maybe 'The Kirby Dinghy - the ongoing saga´
  17. Otterbox

    Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

    I started this thread in March 2013, I am appalled we are still talking about Laser copyright, more than six years later, the idea that we need a whole forum on the same subject is depressing, noooooo.
  18. Where does the ILCA say its not going to organise races for Laser? Its plainly going to organise events for the existing boats and new ones The point being that Sosoomi's concern about the Class not having permission to change name etc, I believe is not actually a problem, I don't think the ILCA needs to change its name
  19. Fair comment, but taking small steps, does anyone know of any law or agreement that would prevent the ILCA from being called the Internationa Laser Class Association.? I followed the LPE FAQ link to the old agreement, which is silent on the issue of the Class Association, so if the boats sailing are grandfathered Lasers and ICLA Torches or what ever and the event is an ILCA UK National World Championship seeing as it seems WS is cool with this, does anyone, other than LPE understand a problem? Be interested to see that in the ILCA and LPE FAQs
  20. My understanding is that LPE first refused to allow Class inspectors/measurers into the UK factory, some years ago, not just this year. So this is not a new problem. In the long term, if you've signed an agreement that says you will allow your processes and materials checked to retain a license to built a product, and then you say you won't, what would you expect to happen? If its true that the ILCA inspectors presented information after Santander that caused all the builders to tighten their tolerances, then all Laser sailors benefit, But from what we've heard from North America, the other problem has been a need for better distribution and it sounds like it can't get any worse if there are more, enthusiastic suppliers.
  21. How long has the International Laser Class Assocation been using that name? 40+ years? If the Class contains Lasers and ILCA Torches (or equivalent ) why would they have to change its name? Does anyone know of an agreement or a law that might give LPE rights to the Class Association name? It seems all the builders tightened their manufacturing tolerances, as a result of ILCA doing a lot of measuring in Santander. I've been told by a High-Performance Sailing Squad member that the PSA boats used to last longer but recent British built boats are a lot better. So good for ILCA!! I also remember hearing here in Britain in 2016, over a pint from someone who had been working with them that LPE had to improve their build methods and materials as a result of ILCA checking. I don't know if it’s true but apparently, they had been cutting corners. I guess having ILCA inspectors going into the factories, as the LCMA agreement that LPE, PSA and PSJ all had signed would be a sensible part of that ongoing quality checking? Surely that is good for our fleets?
  22. Otterbox

    Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

    I am amazed and saddened that this thread continues more than six years after I started it. My question about Santander Worlds 2014 is why did LPE not supply the boats? I remember the Australian did that for the 2011 Worlds. I also remember hearing here in Britain in 2016, over a pint from someone who had been working with them that LPE had to improve their build methods. I don't know if it’s true but apparently, they had been cutting corners. It seems all the builders tightened their manufacturing tolerances, as a result of ILCA doing a lot of measuring in Santander. I've been told by a High-Performance Sailing Squad member that the PSA boats used to last longer but recent British built boats are a lot better. So good for ILCA!! I guess having ILCA inspectors going into the factories would be a sensible part of that ongoing quality checking? Oh yes, is that an issue?
  23. Otterbox

    Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

    Well at least they are talking, if the report is correct Anyone from ILCA at that meeting?
  24. Otterbox

    Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

    I think the amount to work done by the builders has been largely unrecognized. I heard that the Australian builder PSA was the main sponsor of the Laser Masters Worlds and the Youth Worlds in Brisbane last year for instance. Yet now they cant build boats because of the ISAF and ILCA plaque decisions. Kirby looks to have his ducks in line, while ISAF and ILCA do seem to be struggling, its obvious they need to be meeting with Kirby ASAP
  25. Otterbox

    Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

    Generally insurance companies are able to walk away from any situation where people are doing anything they have been warned is illegal. It does seem like a significant personal risk.