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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Marfee

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About Marfee

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  1. Melbourne Big Boat Fleet

    With respect, few at SYC have any interest in the Association Cup at all and I doubt Jason had that in mind when he decided to purchase what is a superbly prepared and equipped yacht that he can race hard but still have a bit of fun on with his family and mates. Tons lighter than his last ride, it has to be more fun to sail! Adams Tens still need to be well sailed to beat the A31 but If cockpit space was the determining factor, then he couldn't have gone past an A10. A10s are fun, fast and relatively cheap boats and yes, some of them (by no means all A10s) have proved to be hugely successful under IRC & AMS ratings but if that's what we all have to sail to win in IRC/AMS then you can shove those rules where the sun don't shine. Do SYC members have any interest in results of the Range Series or Geelong either? Clearly not because they insist that their Club run events in competition with these major Victorian keelboat events, even though one of their own Club's sponsors is the series sponsor of the Range Series. Running the Sydney 38 and J24 State Titles in competition with the Association Cup was a curious decision given that the Association Cup had been in the calendar for eleven months. Clubs go through transition and clearly, with some decent AMS boats, Brighton could have won the trophy. Out of interest, Adams 10's while being members of winning teams, have not generally won the RJ Green Trophy for the IRC Champion boat. The measure of success for the Association Cup is not having fourteen teams entered - there aren't fourteen keelboat Clubs in Victoria. A fourteen team entry list would require a lot of boats to be borrowed or sailed under the burgee of another Club which I don't think is going to happen. That's my personal commentary on the Association Cup to differentiate that event from the core discussion here. Adams 10's cop a lot of criticism - I don't see much evidence of poorly sailed Adams 10's winning many races. They are a cheap introduction to measurement system racing, as was the Borresen. Hopefully owners get a taste of IRC racing and then choose to upgrade into a larger boat. For the same coin as an Adams 10 I would pick a Shaw 650 or the cheaper Viper or Vx One all day every day. I hope that some of the displaced TP52 crew put their hand in their own pocket and get into sports boat racing. I think that the Adams 10 criticism is quite disrespectful to guys like Josh and Al Shears who are incredibly talented sailors. When they are not on board the two respective boats, their level drops quite considerably. So yes, you are correct that the well campaigned Adams 10's have been very successful under IRC and AMS but the "unbeatable" tag should only serve as motivation for others to knock them off their pedestal as our team has attempted to do over the past seven seasons. Racing against those guys really spurred us on to work harder. Not defending SYCs actions for one moment, running S38s and J24 tiles against the Assoc Cup was wrong no matter how little regard SYC sailors may have for that much diminished event. SYC offered Club racing on Range days for those who didn't want to commit to a major series or just weren't interested in travelling some distance across the bay to go racing. It started out a few years ago as a low key option with only a few boats racing but has since proved attractive enough to a lot more boats so that they now outnumber SYCs Range competitors. Maybe the endlessly repetitive nature of the Range series needs a revamp to again attract sailors in the numbers it once enjoyed? Or just maybe IRC and AMS doesn't float their boats anymore? On a positive note, at least they are still sailing and not leaving their boats growing barnacles on the yacht club marina. No disrespect intended re Josh, Al and the other excellent sailors on the top A10s; those guys would shine on any boat and its plain to see that their presence or absence makes a notable difference to the performance of their respective yachts. Bringing it back to the thread title, With both Calms gone, Shogun on the market in Sydney, Goldie gone to Europe, Dolly tucked up in her bed and Scarlet on her world tour you would think there would be busloads of crew looking for rides. Not so, from what I hear around the traps. Oh well, it was a nice ride while it lasted. Re scheduling of the Association Cup, I think you will find that the S/38 and J24 state titles have been run at this time for several years, so it was perhaps an omission by the organisers of the Association Cup to identify conflicting events and work together with that organising authority earlier? As the majority of S/38's are at SYC, then isn't it SYC that would have been most impacted by the clash, but I have not heard any negative comments around SYC about that clash. Also agree with Don's comments that as an invite-only event, the Association Cup only impacts a few boats, so clubs should be able to schedule events as their members demand. As someone who has been honoured to be selected to participate in the Association Cup several times, I too fear for its future, but don't see any simple solution. I think there is a place in the local competition for a Team-based, inter-club event. Perhaps it is up to each club to better promote the event to their members? As for the comments about SYC scheduling events "in competition with" the Club Maine Series, I don't see the events in competition at all. One is a boat-start, laid marks event scored on measurement and performance handicap, the other is a local fixed marks, tower start event scored on performance only. If the SYC members are saying that they don't want to participate in the CMS, and prefer a local-club format it would be inappropriate for the Club to ignore its members. Same thing with Geelong... SYC (and other club's) members have asked for a local, club-based alternative because they simply don't want to go to Geelong. Again, a local afternoon, fixed marks, tower start event is hardly in the same league as the Geelong regatta. At the end of the day, Clubs need to schedule events that meet the demands of their members... to try to influence members in another direction is a risk to our sport. As for the Adams 10 comments... well-designed, well-maintained and well-sailed boats win races.
  2. Melbourne Big Boat Fleet

    Interesting to note that RPAYC are allowing Sat Phones as an alternative to HF Radio for the Cat 2 Coffs race: http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Club-Marine-Pittwater-to-Coffs-Race---Advancement-in-Communication/116170 When asked whether ORCV is considering this same alternative, the response was: "...The ORCV is always looking at new cost beneficial technology to improve safety. For example position scheds in the Melbourne to Osaka race were conducted by HF and Email or SMS. There are some aspects of YA Special Regulations that Organising Authorities do not have discretion to change. One very different consideration in the Cat 2 Pittwater to Coffs race is VHF coverage for the entire race course. " Based on a couple of prompts to some regular ocean racers, suggest that participants generally support using sat phones... perhaps (initially) as an additional option to HF for sched ?? Thoughts?
  3. Melbourne Big Boat Fleet

    Little bit on in Melbourne today... anyone for some heavy air training?
  4. Melbourne Big Boat Fleet

    Gee, well there is the problem Mexxy. You see mate, I always thought that the "key stakeholders" were the owners and crews of the competitors yachts. This event is not like some fucking rock concert where the band plays no matter who attends, if their ain't no boats then your "festival of sail" is just a bunch of fucking unemployed Geelong Bogans wandering around looking for a fight. I mean think of it Mexxy, There is a crew to organise, food and drink to be purchased and a boating asset worth between $10,000 and $3,000,000 or so to be punted down to Geelong - and we aren't the "key Stakeholders"? Ever heard of the marketing terms "buy In" and "ownership" Mexxy? I'll bet those stupid RGYC, Geelong Council and State Government pricks convinced themselves that "Festival of Sail" was a "Brand" right? A "brand " that they owned. That came through loud and clear when Scandia first sponsored the race; the yachting population was immediately divided into "Grand Pricks" yachtsmen welcomed into the corporate tent and the rest of us great unwashed boaters. Each year you progressively alienated more of the Victorian yachting community till we were just a fucking sideshow, a pleasant backdrop for the Bogans to look at, with no real stake in the proceedings. That is what your "branding" has achieved. You see Mexxy, in days gone by every yachtsman in the Bay had "Ownership" of the Geelong regatta and we dutifully "bought in". We organised bought and paid for food, drink and accommodation each year because it was something everyone did as a matter of course. We went because everyone went. And this year you fucked it up even worse than last time.. No passage race and sailing during a work day as well. Let me tell you what the original highlights of Geelong regatta actually were: 1. Passage races from every point in the bay, the course, starting order and start times chosen so that everyone arrived at the Hopetoun channel at once. For those on board that provided fun and games at the narrowest point and it was not unusual to see several unwary players go aground. The spectacle of about a thousand yachts (which is something like the numbers that attended in the late 1960's) arriving en masse was pleasing to the watchers. - But you fucked that all up now haven't you? 2. Then there was the fact that all yachts held "open house" and you caught up with people you hadn't seen all year, wandered off to get drunk together and eat something. Now replaced by acres of commercial food stalls. 3. Then there was the Sunday afternoon race for the teams in the inner harbour. The action at the gybe mark produced several magazine covers. I was there when Police Car broke its vang. All that is gone now - replaced by boring up/down races in the outer harbour. 4. Then there are the prices of everything. We didn't mind buying beer tickets, but today prices are just gouging. So tell RGYC, the City of Geelong and the State Government to take their "Brand" and stick it up their arses. What's the quote? "Don't argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience every time...." Nice rant, however, you've made some sensational assumptions which have no basis. When you say "But you fucked that all up now, haven't you?" I presume you think I'm somehow involved with New Tack, RGYC, et al. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've been racing at Geelong Week (as I still think of it) for over 25 years as a crew and have seen the same changes you rant against. And I do agree that the event has taken a turn for the worse from a sailor's perspective. The difference is that I see myself, and the sailors who race at the event, as the customer of the event. The reason I've termed RGYC, the City of Greater Geelong, the sponsors and the State Government of Victoria as the key stakeholders is because they're actually in a position to make decisions regarding the event. The only decision you or I have to make is whether we buy the product. This year, I did not. So we can vote with our feet and not turn up; as many did this year. The point I'm trying unsuccessfully to make is this may not be enough to change the course of the event. I'm absolutely certain ranting on the internet is not the solution. It's also clear, to me at least, that bagging New Tack will not change the outcome. So how do you influence a change in the event for the betterment of the sailing customer? You need to influence the people and organisations who actually make or have a huge influence over the decisions made about the event: RGYC, the City of Greater Geelong, the sponsors and the State Government of Victoria. By the way, I've told you a million times before: don't exaggerate! Mex (or Mexxy to my fans) The Club Captains have provided advice to RGYC on some changes to the divisions and how they are scored that will hopefully offer the Port Phillip keelboat community a reason to participate in the regatta again. Whether those suggestions find their way into the NoR will be interesting to see. I hope you have more success in those discussions with RGYC than your predecessor had...
  5. Melbourne Big Boat Fleet

    MSA, having sailed in 35 or so iterations of this event I believe I am coming from a slightly more qualified position than you. I have closely witnessed the evolution of the event since the late 60s and witnessed the more recent steady decline in value for money.The high by any standards series entry fee is just the start; its all the add-ons such as accomodation, food & drink that kill the deal for me. Price gouging in Geelong accomodation facilities is rife even to the extent that many hike their prices and then require a minimum booking of more nights than the duration of the event. Local restaurant and beverage prices mysteriously skyrocket overnight and the hand is out wherever you turn. It didn't used to be that way before the corporate involvement in the regatta when local businesses such as restaurants,motels, hotels, bars etc used to make us all welcome whereas now they see us merely as a captive cash cow. Various organising entities and Committees, and there have been many at this regatta over the years, have, as you suggest, conducted participant surveys and called for sailor input. I have personally submitted my views on more than one occasion and I know well the views of very many others who have done the same. To the best of my knowledge nothing resulting in improvement in respect of what the customers (ie sailors) say they want at the regatta ever came of any of those surveys. I have no intent to "scare off" would be participants here, I don't have that degree of influence anyway and as stated upthread, I really hope those who do go have a great time just I as I did on so many occasions. I am merely stating my own views as to why I no longer choose to support the event after having done so for decades. Make up your own minds people, Caveat Emptor. Although not quite at 35, I am probably closer to 20 appearances and tend to agree with your comments. Love the racing component of this event, but it has become cost-prohibitive for us. Unlikely to see us there this year at this stage, although have to add that cost is only one factor in this decision. With 3 days to go until the end of the "Early Bird" discount of $50 for the IRC Championships, there are 5 entrants on the website - of which 4 are Class A. Could this be an indication of people voting with their feet? So at close of entries (excluding late fee entrants) the total number of entrants for Audi 2013 IRC Australian Championships at the Geelong Festival of Sails is a whopping 18 - down from around 27 in 2012 at Hamilton Island. Interestingly, of the 18 - only 9 are locals... the other half are interstate entrants. I guess this will be interpreted as a raging success (on percentage terms), given there is a focus on attracting interstate participants Also, given divisional splits in NoR, fleet sizes could be: D1: 8; D2: 6; D3: 4. Where are the local IRC participants (eg local Club Marine Series has >50 regular IRC participants) ? Seems they are either: a) not going at all; b] racing in AMS/EHC event; or c) playing in the cruising event. Where are the smaller IRC boats? Probably same answer as above, possibly driven by combination of the entry fee and the format/schedule of the event (?) Does not look good for the future of this event.... particularly in Melbourne. I would think the sponsor could be a little disappointed? Also interesting timing on the announcement of the prizes - one day prior to entries closing... a last-gasp attempt to generate interest perhaps?
  6. Melbourne Big Boat Fleet

    Bit on in Melbourne today, one day out from the annual trip across Bass Strait to Stanley. Could be some ugly seas left over for the start on Friday night if this stays in for a while.
  7. Melbourne Big Boat Fleet

    MSA, having sailed in 35 or so iterations of this event I believe I am coming from a slightly more qualified position than you. I have closely witnessed the evolution of the event since the late 60s and witnessed the more recent steady decline in value for money.The high by any standards series entry fee is just the start; its all the add-ons such as accomodation, food & drink that kill the deal for me. Price gouging in Geelong accomodation facilities is rife even to the extent that many hike their prices and then require a minimum booking of more nights than the duration of the event. Local restaurant and beverage prices mysteriously skyrocket overnight and the hand is out wherever you turn. It didn't used to be that way before the corporate involvement in the regatta when local businesses such as restaurants,motels, hotels, bars etc used to make us all welcome whereas now they see us merely as a captive cash cow. Various organising entities and Committees, and there have been many at this regatta over the years, have, as you suggest, conducted participant surveys and called for sailor input. I have personally submitted my views on more than one occasion and I know well the views of very many others who have done the same. To the best of my knowledge nothing resulting in improvement in respect of what the customers (ie sailors) say they want at the regatta ever came of any of those surveys. I have no intent to "scare off" would be participants here, I don't have that degree of influence anyway and as stated upthread, I really hope those who do go have a great time just I as I did on so many occasions. I am merely stating my own views as to why I no longer choose to support the event after having done so for decades. Make up your own minds people, Caveat Emptor. Although not quite at 35, I am probably closer to 20 appearances and tend to agree with your comments. Love the racing component of this event, but it has become cost-prohibitive for us. Unlikely to see us there this year at this stage, although have to add that cost is only one factor in this decision. With 3 days to go until the end of the "Early Bird" discount of $50 for the IRC Championships, there are 5 entrants on the website - of which 4 are Class A. Could this be an indication of people voting with their feet?
  8. Melbourne Big Boat Fleet

    So did the contract of sale include a charter option for Royals to bring her back to Melbourne for the next Association Cup?
  9. Melbourne Big Boat Fleet

    Beg to differ on this.... I think that you will find plenty of owners (particularly locals) that would be very happy with a sausage and BYO VB on-shore as long as there is some good quality racing on-water - at a reasonable price to recover reasonable costs such as temporary berthing infrastructure, race management resources, etc that can be directly linked to the on-water component.
  10. Melbourne Big Boat Fleet

    Notice of Race for the annual pilgrimage to Geelong for the 2013 Festival of Sails (non IRC Aust Championship component) released at: http://festivalofsails.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/FoS-NOR-2013_FINAL.pdf Interesting observations: Passage race on the Friday....... no racing (presentations only) on the Monday...
  11. Melbourne Big Boat Fleet

    NoR for 2013 Audi IRC Australian Championships is up on the Festival of Sails website. http://festivalofsails.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Audi-IRC-Australian-Championship-2013-Notice-of-Race.pdf First observation is the price - $720 (with $50 discount for early payment). Ouch! Fair old whack for 4 days racing. Translates to $74 per race compared to between $21-$30 per race in Club Marine Series. Similar pricing to Hammo (7 days racing, plus generally better facilities, moorings etc) for those of us with boats between 8.0m – 12m LOA, but is a reduction for the bigger boats. (Cynical view could be that the smaller boats are therefore subsidising the big boats?). I am informed that pricing is the responsibility of the host club..... RGYC in this case... I would have thought a lesson from last year's Festival of Sails was learned? Secondly, some interesting changes to divisional splits compared to Hammo: IRC Class A will have:- LH: 13.5 metres or longer (Hammo 2012: LOA 12m+) IRC Hull Factor: 11.0 or higher. (Hammo 2012: 10.0 +) IRC DLR: 160 or lower. (Hammo 2012: Same) IRC TCC: 1.200 or higher (Hammo 2012: 1.160+) IRC Age Date: 2003 or later (Hammo 2012: 2000 or later) IRC Class B will be:- IRC rated boats that do not meet the requirements of IRC Class A that have a TCC of 1.11 and higher. (Hammo 2012: 1.070+) IRC Class C will be:- IRC rated boats that do not meet the requirements of IRC Class A that have a TCC of 1.109 and lower. (Hammo 2012: 1.069 & lower) My opinions: Top end is more focussed on the newer, bigger, faster, TP-style boats - a good thing! However split between B & C is flawed, and could end up with a very large division C, as this will pick up about 90% of the (potential) Melbourne IRC fleet into the one division. Div C includes all rated below the Sydney 38's (who will likely be doing their own one-design thing anyway). When looking locally (where I expect the majority of entries could come from - notwithstanding the price!) at Club Marine Series, this would make Div C potentially as large as 68 boats+ (and include local boats from across CMS Div 1, 2 and 3). I would prefer to see the Div B / C split about the same as Hammo, and perhaps an additional Division D somewhere around the 1.020 mark. Current split also separates the Bene F40's and Bene F45's which is a pity as there is good, competitive local racing between these boats (personal perspective anyway). Could be seen to read: "Big, flash new boats (locally, interstate and overseas) - come along into Div A. Slightly older, non-TP style big boats (eg DK46, Maarten 49's, etc) - Div B is for you. Everyone else, including most of the local fleet - Div C is yours." Not sure that this is effective marketing of the event to attract the majority of local owners. I am told that these splits were done after considerable analysis of IRC ratings and potential participants both at a national and local level..... hmmmm wonder which Victorian representative(s) with knowledge of the local IRC fleet was involved in this analysis? My 2c worth ... which is all I can afford if I pay the entry fee....
  12. Melbourne Big Boat Fleet

    Hammo is a sliding scale depending on size of boat as per below: Slight difference in the "quality" of the environment and experience though!! Boats up to 8.0m LOA AU$250 8.0m - 12.0m LOA AU$665 12.0m - 14.0m LOA AU$770 14.0m-16.0m LOA AU$875 16.0m-18.0m LOA AU$980 18.0m - 24.5m LOA AU$1,230 Over 24.5m LOA AU$2,500 So for us in a 40' Bene, Geelong entry is about the same as Hammo..... ouch!.... Particularly when scheduling both within a year!
  13. Melbourne Big Boat Fleet

    Noted... and like most things on this forum.... ignored. If enough people want this change they can tell me in person... you know where to find me.
  14. Melbourne Big Boat Fleet

    Yeah, but it doesn't blow like it used to! With respect, handling any boat downwind in a blow takes a shitload more than just careful helming. Inattentive crew who just set and forget and don't adjust the pole or choke the sail down when it gets rolly are more likely to be at fault than the helmsman. I don't doubt Ash's helming capabilities but wonder about the trimmers ability to respond in those conditions. Most boats weren't using chutes on the day; perhaps a wise decision? Been there, done that on Wicked.... also in our first SYC Winter Series with the boat in a 25-30kn Northerly.... I call it an initiation ceremony! For us, 30kn squirt hit mid-gybe off Green Point... bow went in deep and around we went ... not much that a trimmer, helm or anyone else could do except hang on and enjoy the ride.... These boats have a nasty tendency to bury the bow with little warning, which is what Ash has now found out about!
  15. Melbourne Big Boat Fleet

    Some interesting points there. As you have said, in the early 90s RYCV used to run a Sunday winter series (NEC? IIRC)for boats under 35ft. We used to race the old wide red beast in those days and it was great fun against Bruce T in earlier Chutzpahs, Rob Hick in some of his designs, Dave Eichmeyer in various Hot To Trots, a bunch of half and 3/4 tonners and a number of one designs like J24s and S80s etc. Unfortunately they wilted under pressure and opened it up to bigger and bigger boats until it folded against the competition of the long standing ORCV Winter Series which had always run on alternate weeks. I absolutely agree that some of the best sailing right now is in Div 2 where there are a good number of similar sized (mid 30s) and similar speed boats fighting it out in every race. These include Syd 36s, Benny 35, INSX, Seaquest RP36s, Archambaults 31 & 35s, Adams Tens and my current ride, the X-35OD. They all get up on their day and do well and all are capable of winning on AMS/IRC. A big advantage of this close racing is that we are all getting better and sailing faster. The boat handling and crew work is great to see at close quarters and any slip up will cost places. The last couple of CM Range series and last years ORCV Winter Series saw really good close and exciting racing amongst that group. Last season saw several boats close to the tcf cut off point elect to move down from Div 1 to Div 2 to increase the fleet even more. Div 2 offers us much more fun than watching big boat transoms disappear into the distance. To all our fellow Div 2 competitors over the last couple of seasons; thanks, it's been great fun! Nuts is heading north this week en route in stages to Airlie Beach for some fun in the sun in August so we will miss the ORCV Winter series this year but we are looking forward to the next summer season and resuming racing in the heat of Div 2 where the action is. Thanks for the feedback Sportscar and you have also jogged the memory as to the sponsor of the last regatta I think sailed in about 1996. Taking on board your comments it seems the key is having similar sized yachts around the 32' - 35' LOA dimension max that seem to have performances that are relativly matched depending on the conditions, and where generally speaking every dog has his day as far as a measurement system race goes. Whilst understand your concerns regarding the timing (and take them onboard) are being careful not to clash or compete with any pre existing keelboat events and as previously mentioned doubt that any of the target boats would be interested in bashing to Grassey that weekend and are probally looking for something to do, particularly now that RBYC has discontinued the Audi Regatta. The view is whilst SYC conducted the Bennateu Regatta (essentially a fun event) on the Saturday this year the club is more than capable of walking and chewing gum and we are sure the Sunday Sailors won't mind. Another recent thought is encouraging the few sportsboats that reside on Port Phillip (or furher afield for that matter) to participate in the same races, but maybe scored under the SMS system given it is proving very popular with that group, and a direct correlation to AMS may be possible but would need to take advice on that Certainly the size and performance of those types fits perfectly with the intent of the event. As previously posted, if you have a proposal for SYC (or any other Club for that matter) on an event then I suggest you to direct that to the Club. Stirring up things on a public forum like this one, whilst may your thing, it not likely to get this event up and running.