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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Lost in Translation

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  1. A "not" on foiling boards being slower upwind got autocorrected out Foiling boards are NOT much slower in my experience, but that is in a class where foiling and non foiling boats are racing together. I wonder why the customer would dictate to the designer foil dimensions. Sounds like you are getting it figured out, Macca. I would love to know exactly how much load is carried by each foil at various angles.
  2. Z foils can do what Team GBR describes. Any foil can loose lift, and many A-Class sailors have experienced it over the last several years. The newest eXploder foils in the A-Class are very good in this regard and a significant step forward over the DNA Z boards that set the standard for the last two years. Foiling boards have been much slower upwind for the A-Class than C boards or straight boards, but clearly something is different with the Nacra now from what Macca describes. It is not that hard to upgrade foils if need be, though it would come at an expense for the N17 fleet. Just keep the top of the board the same and change the design below the lower bearing exit. As long as the new design is not longer in chord or thickness, it should pass through the same lower bearing. A new design could have different rake, toe-in or toe-out, less drag when immersed, etc just in the board without changing the boat. Is this the kind of thing you are thinking about Macca?
  3. Doug also invented the first trimaran that doesn't tack and has video proof.
  4. The first USA D3's have 50 cm boards, not 60. One very qualified person sailed one just like those D3s at the Worlds and was going very well in the breeze and reported hanging with the new boats downwind one time when we talked there. I am not saying this to diminish the quality of the new boats and the Z22s as they are very, very good, but just to provide some accurate data, context, and perspective. Those Z22s just don't fall off the foils and feel slick and low drag. You can fly very high and just sit there without falling off the foils. It's impressive. They also feel OK downwind when sailing flat with all that foiling gear causing drag. A few people were trying differential rudders that can give downforce on the windward side upwind. Makes a ton of sense to me and something I am very keen to try. It will take some development to make something really easy to use there and is pretty exciting in concept to me. Z22: https://goo.gl/photos/E6o27x1egoTfJoRC6 https://goo.gl/photos/GoqQ5zU9cQjyJfyB6 I'm not sure why Scott Anderson had such a strange boom set up. He sailed a boomless sail with a boom on what looked to be a standard gooseneck. I didn't ask him but suspected it was like a fancy bartender who makes incredible cocktails all night only to open a budweiser when he gets home. Can't be bothered I'd guess. The Fiberfoam 15 masts are reportedly about 1.5 Kgs heavier and are beefed up since so many people are running heavy downhaul downwind from what I've heard. i doubt that is all in the gooseneck area but I don't have any specific knowledge.
  5. The Polish boat Lars mentioned smells of smoke in one hull. The sailor is OK but shaken and is in surpassingly good spirits. The mast apparently has some waves at the top but is still OK for now too. Scary and very thankful nothing worse happened. The event is wonderful and the mgmt in all aspects excellent overall, but this was not good and should not happen unless some kind of extreme un-predictable weather event.
  6. The Z10 is flying an 18HT? How cool! I guess there is no issue then with that board for the A. I have never seen one fail anyway, but, Sam, that should make you relax. I have thought the eXploder Z10 type of design with an oversize board and bearing at the exit and then an optimized foil section under the water that is smaller is a clever way to build. I wish they had done that from the beginning. I think it would be great a solution for the N17 as well. The rotating bearing is a very nice design too, though I have seen some people struggle with reliability of the rotating bearing. For example, it is possible to put the board through such a bearing without being in the slot and damage the bearing. I am sure the N17 sailors will adapt and take the proper care and clearly Nacra is motivated to give them good gear. MGMurray, the rudders are the most important part for quality foiling. I'm not sure any are built to take the 18HT loads though maybe it doesn't matter so much once you are flying. I would consider either the eXploder rudders that work with your Z10s or the N17 new cassette rudders. The eXploder ones are likely cheaper and there are probably some in stock in St Pete, FL at Emmanuel's. If you go that route, you will want whichever rudders he has with the largest winglets as you have a heavier boat than the A.
  7. I would be very hesitant to cleat the main when foiling. The boat is so responsive to wind. Trimming is much more important than steering. I am always happy to share settings and what I learn and have started a settings guide in the past for other eXploders. I think it would be great to take this further with the new boats or start over with a simple matrix rather than a set of slides. Martin, my point was not so much about wobble in your system as I assume since the boat is new that all would be tight. My only point, which may or not be relevant to you and A-man, is that the balance of the rudder changes as the boat flies. When it flies, there is no hull in the water and the boat pivots extremely quickly. For this reason, you want the lower portion of the rudder more aft than the top of it. You want to be able to set the tiller on your shoulder while foiling and have the boat foil straight. Basically, you don't need the large area in front of the pivot of the rudder to reduce loads like you do in floating mode. You want the helm not to be so responsive that is impossible to be smooth. At least that is my thinking.
  8. Martin, if you are getting wobbles that early, I wonder if your rudders are overbalanced. I know Sam has been playing with reducing balance to improve tracking and I don't think has found a happy medium on this setting alone but it works very well for me. By positioning the rudder blade a little aft in its tiller housing, the the balance on the rudder is reduced and the boat is more stable on the foils. I have been very happy with my A set up and feel the boat tracks very well at 20+ knots of boat speed. It is relatively forgiving to foil at various upwind and downwind angles. One of the key things to think about though in all steering issues is not steering. It is trimming. Trimming should be the large majority of your adjustment while foiling. You may already be going this and I apologize if it is obvious, but it's amazing how much better a foiling cat goes when it isn't having to turn up and down all the time. The rudders just need to track and occasionally make adjustments after the sail trim first responds to gusts or lulls.
  9. perfect, and re the comment on pulling the sail on on tighter as the foiling speeds get higher, I think that is just from the stress of holding on for dear life!
  10. Will definitely be fun to see what Sopot has in store. Mischa has recenlty posted pics of carbon dust at Holland Composites, the Scheurer team has shown a lot of innovation this summer with the G7 and its beam forward design that looks really good upwind, the eXploder group continues to pump out more prototypes than anyone else and has really benefitted from working with Gonzalo Redondo over the last year +, and the AUS sailors continue to pursue boomless boats that are optimized for never coming off the wire. Thilo / AST has something in the flip flop boards but they must remain 8.1 rule compliant. Some random thoughts: If someone makes a jib work, I think it will have to be like the Swift Solo with simultaneous jib / main trim. While I see some benefits of a jib, I don't ever want to deal with rigging one on the A and the complexity of sailing with it. At some point, the winning factor is going to be the maneuvers and not the straight line speed. How soon that becomes the case is anyone's guess, but as the boats approach limits on stable speed, getting to foiling jibes and tacks or at least high speed maneuvers is an important factor. Getting more of the foiling force from the leeward board is a good thing as long as the foil can support it. Our traditional boards could not really work that well alone. They needed the other side too. Thilo's solution provides much more lift from the leeward side but cannot violate the class rules. It's amazing to think about the apparent wind speeds the rigs are seeing now. We used to go upwind at 10 to 13 knots or so and now with foiling can see 18+. It's amazing to see how rigs are still working and I continue to believe flat and twisty shapes or lower profile / center of effort shapes are the way to go.
  11. Thanks, guys and good advice WetnWild. Other catamarans need to fly a hull too so that argument seems limited in its use against the configuration. I have seen boats in light air win races with a deck sweeper. Classic and foiling. Have done the same myself. Not sure what else to say on that particular topic. Traditional rigs are not bad and can win in the very light, especially if a lot of chop, but deck sweepers are better overall.
  12. better thread on this F18 decksweeping topic! it has someone who sailed it and knows what is is like through Tony F18. I asked in the other thread about the unusual panel layout. Curious for your thoughts on it as I have not seen it before. Maybe a way to approximate a stronger membrane cloth and broad seam layout with pentex?
  13. If someone presented a sailor with a way to have a significantly longer luff length with no taller mast, wouldn't he most likely want it? If someone could do some deck sealing of any kind, would he want to try it? Jibs on monohulls that lean over have emphasized decksweeping for decades. Do we see 505s setting jibs with their class limited area up high and letting the wind blow through the deck? As A Class and others have noted that are specifically relevant for the F18: 1) it was proven very fast upwind by Pete Melvin in 2014 on a C board boat in the A-class with his work with Jay Glaser. He is on video / write up, I don't recall which, saying how much of a difference it made on power and speed upwind. I believe he noted the vortices off the bottom of a typical sail limit the advantage of easing outhaul and powering up the bottom of the sail. Makes sense to me. The deck sweeper can allow more curvature down low without so much drag. 2) it has proven to win here in the USA on C board A-cats, primarily due to upwind speed, even in light air. We see many top C board boats now winning with deck sweepers. They are superior upwind to the older sails. Jay Glaser here is building deck sweepers different to the AUS approach with a bigger head and more power up top. In fact, the winner of a very light wind winter series in the A-Class here won with C Boards and a big headed decksweeper. That deck sweeper was rejected for foiling as it has too much power up top, but it's good for flying a hull downwind or going deep and mild. 3) Mischa just won the worlds with it and the video I saw was stunning on his upwind speed. Every boat is different, but if I had an F18 or F16, I would be working in that direction. Probably not a foiling sail plan with very small head, but the concept is right. I bet Jay has a good idea as an F18 sailor on how to do it and of course, getting a set up from Mischa would be ideal. Benchy raises some good questions on all the rigging and mess up front on the F18 or any spinnaker / jib boat. Would be very cool to see a way to clean that up and make it be an advantage. I'm surprised no on here is taking about the panel layout that Mischa chose. I haven't seen something like that in the past and it has almost a checkerboard look with pentex broad seaming rather than a tri-radial. Thoughts? Anyone seen a layout like that before?
  14. Seems like Merloe has shown a patience and definitiveness in their navigation that the other multis have lacked. Either that or they have gotten very lucky to avoid having to maneuver for squalls. Great work. Watching their course over the last portion of the race makes their navigation decisions look easy and perfect.
  15. I had wondered if the AC62 design inspired them in a different direction than the other teams who scaled up an AC45. I agree that it sounds like it's not going to be catamarans any more but Glenn is not going to be happy if it's not full foiling. Not sure what else it can be that is manageable at that size or bigger unless it becomes a tri. I can't see match racing in a DSS inspired boat with foils well wide of the beam of the boat. The dialup would be too dangerous. We will see. How many other teams held back their "ripest fruits" until the end? I would guess none. Clean, what did you take away that was most interesting?