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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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  1. Pettit Vivid removal options

    Wet sand. Its not a hard paint at all but it gums up dry paper.
  2. phrf handicap J105

    The rating might end up the same... but it should definitely be declared. If the boat is using that sail and sailing under an ODR rating then it’s out of compliance. The other boat should use the J/105 non-ODR rating and request/declare adjustments to match the sail configuration it uses when racing PHRF.
  3. ORR in Long Island

    So of those boats who used to race under IRC but are no more (hopefully a reasonable description of "dead"), what rule are the boats/owners racing under this year? Give us some examples. And if there was a way to get them back to a common rule, and attract interest from the next group down - the 32-40footers - which rule do you think would best achieve that?
  4. ORR in Long Island

    I disagree with that. It has a place for Catalinas and cruisers. But the minute you are "optimizing" for a PHRF rule I think that should be a sign that you're in the wrong division. PHRF racers should be forced to race with an anchor hanging from the bow and a Bimini installed as a condition of entry. That would get the racers out of PHRF and into a proper rating rule. But since nearly every boat under 40ft, irrespective of how racy a design or how serious the sailors, has little option than to race PHRF forces these issues into the spotlight. Lots of people are taking PHRF way too seriously.
  5. ORR in Long Island

    While you can potentially make that argument today, you certainly couldn't make that argument at the time they started the venture. They just wanted to be in control and didn't like not being on the inside of IRC secret circle. I'd strongly dispute that IRC is dead today too. The RORC have a pretty good argument going with ORC over who has the most certificates issued... And they both have thousands more certificates issued than ORR. There is simply no way ORR is going to become an internationally successful rule against those two. And to persist with it here in North America marginalizes North American sailing. Maybe just for once we could do something the same way as the rest of the world does it?
  6. ORR in Long Island

    Agree. Don't misunderstand and take me for an ORR fanboy. But a move to any of the more scientific rating rules would be step forward over the PHRF nonsense. Why the clubs that created ORR thought IRC or ORC weren't good enough I don't understand. Too many type A personalities all wanting to be in control is my guess. The sailing world needs to pick a system and work with it. IRC and ORC are at least talking now and had a joint World Championships this year. ORR isn't going to survive against those heavyweights. Getting back on topic, for LIS to adopt ORR over IRC would be crazy. If the NYYC and the NE movers and shakers want to do some proper leadership for the good of the sport then they'll stick with IRC until the time is right to move to ORC which looks somewhat inevitable eventually. In the meantime they can encourage IRC adoption for serious racers in the sub-40ft size ranges and put the cruisers back in charge of PHRF.
  7. ORR in Long Island

    Nobody can because thats not what happened. It is MANY different inputs, one of which is a prop type, that gives that output. You have to factor in the sail dynamics of the Cruising Class, the hull dynamics of the shoal/heavy keel, and the prop. The owner of CN was smart enough to get a rating that matched the way they intended to sail the boat in that race. You are assuming these boats are identical save for the prop when in actuality there are many differences between the declared PHRF configuration that yields an 84 rating and the declared Mac race ORR configuration that yields 0.791
  8. ORR in Long Island

    CN - the slower B42 is quite different to the faster pair. Its a shoal draft boat, racing in the cruising spinnaker division (cruising chutes only, no kites, sail limitations, etc) and its got a fixed prop. I can see that being a bunch slower than the race optimized version that rates in the 80's PHRF. How much slower? Well its a very subjective answer if you ask a PHRF person. Its a very scientific answer if you ask the ORR person. Arguing with the science on the basis of PHRF subjectivism is as absurd as arguing with your doctor because your horoscope/psychic said something different.
  9. Rules Question - OCS

    Seriously? Thats cheating in my book. Yes, we've all thought of it. Like we've all thought about robbing a bank. Technically.... You are racing from your preparatory signal. So cross the line one moment after that flag goes up and keep going. Best of luck.
  10. Mainsail cloth choice

    It doesn't sound very new... FLEX has been around for a long time and they used to make an aramid version with tafetas. So the technology is proven. I've bought 2 FLEX sails and have been very happy with both - excellent value for performance. Dyneema is slippery and maybe presents some adhesive challenges, but otherwise DP have this perfected. It shouldn't be a lot more expensive than a good dacron sail, and with good engineering around the clew patches and careful attention to detail to try to avoid hard hinge lines in the film, it'll be good for a lot of miles.
  11. 2015 ALIR

    I support the YCC concept and am hugely impressed with the success that Young American have achieved in recent years. But there is little chatter here about the fact that two of these YCC boats ran their boats hard aground in this race. These programs have a duty to ensure that the crews they put out are responsible and that basic principles of good seamanship are always maintained. Else we're going to have a major tragedy as these youths push harder and harder in other-people's-boats. A year or so ago I had my heart in my mouth as I witnessed the YA team (then on High Noon) repeatedly short tack that boat, at pretty good speed, into shallows off a rocky stretch of beach strewn with rocks that weren't going to be giving second chances. They got away with it that day. During last years ALIR they blew out their code zero because they were pushing it too hard and then had someone getting tossed around up the rig for the next 20minutes unraveling the mess. Spectacular, yes. Dangerous, yes. Expensive, yes. In this race they put their J/105 on the shoal so hard that they needed assistance to get off. Thats a pattern of risk taking that is inappropriate for a YCC team and needs to be arrested by those in charge of the program if they are to maintain the respect of their competition and avoid a tragedy. The USMMA team on Bandera also somehow managed to find a spot where draft exceeded depth. Thats the merchant marine academy's finest. No joke. At least they managed to rescue themselves. But I do wonder if they told their Commandant? Is it just a cooincidence that these two boats are both YCC competitors? Or are the YCC sailors uncaring since they aren't paying the bills or feeling any material consequences? Is there too much youthful bravado that needs to be checked? But most importantly, are the donors, trustees and sponsors just going to keep putting broken boats back together again without demanding change? If they do, something is wrong. I hope these groundings will bring these programs back down to earth. Pun intended.
  12. Tack line loads

    THat would be fine. Yeah, it'd also be massive expensive overkill in this case. The loads on a Sabre 34-2 are going to be less than 25% those on an xp44. 15k break load is irrelevant anyway - unless you are using some truly massive hardware every block in that system will crush its bearings and explode long before the dyneema lets go. A harken high-load 75 has only 3k (lbs) working load. if you've ever winched someone up the rig, thats what 80kg or 180lbs of load feels like. Most normal recreational sailors would struggle to hoist a sumo wrestler up the rig at all - even with a winch they'd be sweating bullets and taking a break before they got much past the gooseneck. Think about that for a second: These loads are considerably less than that in all but the wildest circumstances. People forget how strong modern lines are. Blocks are the weaknesses in all these systems. Look for SWL on hardware of at least 1200lbs and go sailing.
  13. The end of the blue oval is the end of an era. http://hood-sails.com/2017/07/a-message-from-hood-sailmakers-ceo-rob-macmillan/
  14. YRALIS PHRF minutes

    May and June minutes have been posted.
  15. Garmin bought Nexus - which was great stuff. Their sailing instrumentation now bears more than a passing resemblance to the old Nexus gear. Its all thoroughly updated but parts of the DNA are still clearly evident.... Nexus used to occupy a pretty nice niche between "cheap" Raymarine instrumentation and expensive systems from B&G, NKE and Ockam. It was my view that for just a few beans more than a basic Raymarine system you got 80% of the accuracy/calibration options that a 10x more expensive B&G system offered. I've looked at Garmin at shows and feel it still takes the best of that Nexus world while also drawing from their very refined charting/mfd/sonar/radar capabilities and offers a slick solution. So I don't think Garmin is bad advice at all, but a lot will come down to budget and personal preference.