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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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About Dacron

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    Inside 3 boatlengths
  1. VOR Leg 2 Lisbon to Cape Town

    In the daily show today Abby announces Brunel are going south in stealth mode after the afterguard had a long discussion about the merits of a northerly and southerly route... south was less risk. They hope to make a break and that no-one will go with them. Why is she telling us this? Surely there are ways for this to get to the other boats and largely negate the benefit of going stealthy?
  2. Spinnaker cloth Airx v Superkote

    Yes. Here's another reference. Says broadly but not exactly the same thing. http://www.uksailmakers.com/sails-overview-racing-spinnakers/s2-racing-spinnakers/ But remember, these design ideals assume you have all the sails to choose from. If the boat(s) in question don't have a S1 or S1.5 - and very few do have those sails - then the working range for the S2 has to come down to zero since there is no lighter sail to put up. If we accept a diet of 3 chutes then an Olsen 29 inventory should be a lt/med VMG runner made of half oz, an s3 reacher made of 3/4 oz, and an s4/chicken chute made of something bulletproof. Either way. I am 100% with A2A - A600 or Sk60 is the right stuff for the OP's sail. Whatever we choose to call it.
  3. I don't recognize this interior....

    The ad says its hull #1...
  4. Spinnaker cloth Airx v Superkote

    An S2 is a light running sym spinnaker. Traditionally thats 1/2oz territory. A500 is half oz cloth. A heavy runner would be an S4 and thats traditionally 3/4oz territory. A700 is a robust example of this style. If you or the OP are going to use this for medium breeze reaching then you need to ask for an S3 or some sort of hybrid because you are right - reaching loads will be much higher than running loads. An S3 is a medium AP/reaching chute. An S3 will be a flatter shape and made of one step heavier cloth than an S2 probably. But A700 is a full on 3/4oz cloth. It would be used for a heavy running chute (S4) on 35-40footers weighing 3-4times what this olsen weighs. There are two weights between A500 and A700 - A600 and A650. A650 was explicitly designed to meet the minimum specified by some OD classes as their only or heavy chute minimum... so as a light-med chute on a fairly small light sporty keelboat even A650 would be overkill for an S2 imho. And A700 is heavier still. Its an inappropriate recommendation. As for what difference it will make - It'll be heavy, it won't float or fill quite as easily, thats all. It'll hurt badly in 10kts breeze when you turn downwind and only have 5 apparent.
  5. Spinnaker cloth Airx v Superkote

    Airx700 is way too heavy for an S2 on your boat. Whoever recommended this is inept. Airx500 is a good recommendation. Its a proper 1/2oz cloth. I wouldn't suggest any lighter, and I could see a sailmaker suggesting Airx600 legitimately too as it'll have a bit more range and probably an extra year or two of usable life compared to a 500 sail other things being equal. But 600 is a wee bit heavier. That depends on what you want and what you asked for. SK60 is closest to Airx600. There is a SuperLite50 in the same range which is used for S2 chutes on much bigger boats than yours... Summary: SL50 & Airx500 are basically equivalent. As are SK60 and Airx600. Superlite/kote is probably $150 more in materials cost relative to Airx, and worth it imho. If you like the rest of their proposal, I'd go with the SK60 suggestion as a very good medium s2 proposal.
  6. Pettit Vivid removal options

    Wet sand. Its not a hard paint at all but it gums up dry paper.
  7. phrf handicap J105

    The rating might end up the same... but it should definitely be declared. If the boat is using that sail and sailing under an ODR rating then it’s out of compliance. The other boat should use the J/105 non-ODR rating and request/declare adjustments to match the sail configuration it uses when racing PHRF.
  8. ORR in Long Island

    So of those boats who used to race under IRC but are no more (hopefully a reasonable description of "dead"), what rule are the boats/owners racing under this year? Give us some examples. And if there was a way to get them back to a common rule, and attract interest from the next group down - the 32-40footers - which rule do you think would best achieve that?
  9. ORR in Long Island

    I disagree with that. It has a place for Catalinas and cruisers. But the minute you are "optimizing" for a PHRF rule I think that should be a sign that you're in the wrong division. PHRF racers should be forced to race with an anchor hanging from the bow and a Bimini installed as a condition of entry. That would get the racers out of PHRF and into a proper rating rule. But since nearly every boat under 40ft, irrespective of how racy a design or how serious the sailors, has little option than to race PHRF forces these issues into the spotlight. Lots of people are taking PHRF way too seriously.
  10. ORR in Long Island

    While you can potentially make that argument today, you certainly couldn't make that argument at the time they started the venture. They just wanted to be in control and didn't like not being on the inside of IRC secret circle. I'd strongly dispute that IRC is dead today too. The RORC have a pretty good argument going with ORC over who has the most certificates issued... And they both have thousands more certificates issued than ORR. There is simply no way ORR is going to become an internationally successful rule against those two. And to persist with it here in North America marginalizes North American sailing. Maybe just for once we could do something the same way as the rest of the world does it?
  11. ORR in Long Island

    Agree. Don't misunderstand and take me for an ORR fanboy. But a move to any of the more scientific rating rules would be step forward over the PHRF nonsense. Why the clubs that created ORR thought IRC or ORC weren't good enough I don't understand. Too many type A personalities all wanting to be in control is my guess. The sailing world needs to pick a system and work with it. IRC and ORC are at least talking now and had a joint World Championships this year. ORR isn't going to survive against those heavyweights. Getting back on topic, for LIS to adopt ORR over IRC would be crazy. If the NYYC and the NE movers and shakers want to do some proper leadership for the good of the sport then they'll stick with IRC until the time is right to move to ORC which looks somewhat inevitable eventually. In the meantime they can encourage IRC adoption for serious racers in the sub-40ft size ranges and put the cruisers back in charge of PHRF.
  12. ORR in Long Island

    Nobody can because thats not what happened. It is MANY different inputs, one of which is a prop type, that gives that output. You have to factor in the sail dynamics of the Cruising Class, the hull dynamics of the shoal/heavy keel, and the prop. The owner of CN was smart enough to get a rating that matched the way they intended to sail the boat in that race. You are assuming these boats are identical save for the prop when in actuality there are many differences between the declared PHRF configuration that yields an 84 rating and the declared Mac race ORR configuration that yields 0.791
  13. ORR in Long Island

    CN - the slower B42 is quite different to the faster pair. Its a shoal draft boat, racing in the cruising spinnaker division (cruising chutes only, no kites, sail limitations, etc) and its got a fixed prop. I can see that being a bunch slower than the race optimized version that rates in the 80's PHRF. How much slower? Well its a very subjective answer if you ask a PHRF person. Its a very scientific answer if you ask the ORR person. Arguing with the science on the basis of PHRF subjectivism is as absurd as arguing with your doctor because your horoscope/psychic said something different.
  14. Rules Question - OCS

    Seriously? Thats cheating in my book. Yes, we've all thought of it. Like we've all thought about robbing a bank. Technically.... You are racing from your preparatory signal. So cross the line one moment after that flag goes up and keep going. Best of luck.
  15. Mainsail cloth choice

    It doesn't sound very new... FLEX has been around for a long time and they used to make an aramid version with tafetas. So the technology is proven. I've bought 2 FLEX sails and have been very happy with both - excellent value for performance. Dyneema is slippery and maybe presents some adhesive challenges, but otherwise DP have this perfected. It shouldn't be a lot more expensive than a good dacron sail, and with good engineering around the clew patches and careful attention to detail to try to avoid hard hinge lines in the film, it'll be good for a lot of miles.