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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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  1. In mast main furler noise when docked

    This is a typical issue with these particular in mast furlers. You always know which marina has one of these boats in it from the distinctive sound they make in the right wind situation. I have seen a few innovative devised inserted in the back of the mast openings to help resolve this issue, but I am not sure what has been most effective. I am sure someone in this vast pool of higher knowledge will know of something that has been effective. I think there have been a few sailmakers who have experimented with this over the years as you are not the first one to deal with this anoyance. Might want to post in the cruising forum as they might have a good response for you.
  2. US Sailing Olympic Submission for 2024

    See I knew this group was much smarter than I am. Thanks for posting the real facts. Sorry for the fake news.
  3. US Sailing Olympic Submission for 2024

    I like the approach from the US Olympic sailing director. That whatever platforms are chosen for 2024 we will optimize our team for those events. Not try and fight the system, but work with it and be successful. With the way the current US support is for The Olympic classes and our results over the past few Olympic Games it might just be a welcome change to see something completely new. Maybe putting some slow ass collegiate boat in and do some team racing might give our sailors a chance at a medal! Look at our current Olympic fleets going into the final half of the Olympic Quad and how many US teams do you really see making a run at a medal. Certainly not the 470 women’s! In each class we have less than a couple teams even making an attempt. And it appears they are just hoping to make it to the games! In the men’s 470 no one is even giving Stu and Dave a run so they are pretty much going back for Stu’s fourth Olympics and so far no medal. Not sure they are really medal hopefuls for 2020 unless they can step up their results. But at least they are close to the front and can see who the medal contenders are shaping up to be. Interesting statistic from Rio was that 100% of gold medal winners were the current world champions. Except for Caleb Paine, all the minor medal winners were past worlds champions. How many world champions in the Olympic classes in the last or current quad are Americans- Zero from my count unless I am corrected by the smarter group on this forum. Maybe a big switch up in the Olympic platforms is just what is needed to revitalize medal efforts here in the US. No matter how crazy, stupid the event might be to make it appeal to viewers. While I know there is a solid amount of effort going into supporting the teams for 2020 from US Sailing. I really get the feeling the new management are just trying to get processes and logisitcs in place to see what the changes will be for 2024 and develop a truly competitive team for this event with an even bigger goal of 2028 in LA. My personal opinion and part of the reason to keep the numbers low on the US Sailing Team this quad. I really do not think there is much hope for many medals inTokyo. But looking forward to be wrong on this.
  4. Tropheo Princes Sophia

    http://www.trofeoprincesasofia.org/en/default/races/race this is one of the best updated regatta websites I have seen in a while. Live weather and scoring on each of the multiple courses. Great to see this level of support for an event.
  5. Enclosed Dinghy Trailer

    Not sure how people are looking at this. For $3500 we have two 15.5 foot boats stored in a tandem axle 16 Ft trailer with a V-nose . The boats were well in excess of 15k each. Masts go on the roof racks on top of the trailer and the interior is fully fitted out to hold all the gear. Including electrical hook up and dehumidifier. Easiest way to store boats as they are not in the garage or storage building. Easy access and great set up for Regattas. The boats travel safely with no road issues so far. For me it works great on so many levels. But to each there own way to make their lives easier.
  6. Youth evolution in sailing

    Collegiate sailing is actually not a NCAA sport. It is governed by ICSA but many of the schools follow the guidelines outlined by NCAA athletics.
  7. Youth evolution in sailing

    Going back to the original photo I just got a big chuckle of an epic picture of an FJ screaming up wind. In today’s sailing world it just seems to be an oxymoron. On the side of supporting the college programs I get it with trying to find some parity between those who have all the money and those who do not. Sailing this type old school boat I guess makes it easier for many teams to have the opportunity to at least make a run at the better financed teams. Although college sailing is a rigged system and having now been sucked into college sailing scene I see how rigged it really is. No gripe there as it just is what it is and if you understand you are on the outside then you just accept this world is rigged against you if you are not one of the chosen elite teams who control the process. Makes it easier to not take it so seriously and just enjoy the experience and make new friends along the way. Sad part is so many high school kids think they may have a pathway through to college sailing by performing at various youth events. The reality is that college coaches have such limited access to endowments and money to support recruiting that the majority of kids who get recruited in sailing are kids who’s parents can stroke a check for the full amount of college and in reality while there are some achedemic scholarships out there they can be very skinny. I know of current national champions who have not gotten a call by college coaches because of that financial matter. It is much easier for a college coach to recruit a good sailor with solid ability and a parent who can write the check than recruit a very high level sailor who the coach will need to find endowments and scholarships in order for the kids to attend that school. It is just economics. Parents just need to understand the reality of how the world works and be realistic with their kids sailing. Go sailing because you love to compete and if the college sailing thing works out great, but if not- go sailing something that is fun to sail. Sorry to derail the thread further. College sailing has a strong and prominent place in US sailing. Although it seems to me personally to be more of an endpoint to sailing for many people instead of a continuation or growth segment leading to something further. Although I have no idea what comes next in sailing for so many college sailors? Guess it could be the PHRF fleets, local one design fleets, and recreational sailing. But hopefully the college sailors will at least still stay in the sport.
  8. The comments presented are all very relevant. It is great to hear some educated perspectives on this topic. There is a very important balance and fully agree going for an Olympic berth is something you need to have inside your soul and you need to believe in yourself. But money thrown at the right program will bring results. Hard to know which program is the right one though! It will be interesting to see who jumps in over these next two years and if they can rise through the ranks. Also agree it would be great to see how the college sailing programs and personal Olympic campaigns could be more aligned like they are in other sports such as track and field. I think some schools are looking at this. Yale certainly supports their Olympiads as do a few other programs. But so much more could be done. But as noted above at what price. I do agree that Paige’s support of the Olympic Development Program is the correct path. Along with the his policy of holding the line on what is expected from potential Olympiads. Well I have rambled on way to long. Pushed my post count up over 100. Only took 13 years.
  9. It would appear Malcom is applying some of the Aussie process to the US sailing team. The only US 470team to make the US Sailing Team is currently ranked in the top ten in the world. Not sure about the other teams, but it is probably similar. Having support of US Sailing as the MNA is important in terms of gaining access to some world level events such as the World Cup, but in the US we know all too well there is very little support for someone interested in starting down an Olympic path. Making the US Sailing Team may open doors for private funding but outside of that you get a nice Jacket and some awesome coaching from time to time, but overall the US Team has very limited funding after all their overhead costs are covered. The group at Oakcliff has tried to grow and provide access to Olympic classes such as the skiffs and 470’s, but with a lack of any class infrastructure in the US there is no real traction. Maybe the reason for interest in the youth programs and growing sailors much earlier so there is less of a learning curve trying to get college age sailors up to speed in the various Olympic classes. It is hard to go from a Club 420 with Spinnaker and Trap then go into college sailing then try and make the transition to a 49er or 470. It is a huge learning curve to be ranked in the Worlds top ten and takes a huge commitment in money and time that not many young adults can stomach. The pipeline program along with the Olympic Development Program has solid merits, but will take a while to produce sailors able to win Olympic medals.
  10. What is really telling about the announced roster of the US Sailing Team is how few sailors in each class were selected. Truly shows the current depth of sailors who are interested in stepping up and trying for the Olympics. Seems difficult to choose the top five sailors in each Olympic class to the US Sailing Team each year if there are not enough teams much les qualified teams to filled the roster. Great to see there is a standard to making the US Sailing Team. The US truly has incredible depth in sailors nationwide, but very limited in sailors interested in the Olympic classes. This has been discussed to death regarding the problem, but still does not change the facts. The only 470 team on the listed has been to the last three Olyimpics (at least the skipper), and not produced a medal, but there is no other teams making a solid run at it so why not slide along and do another Olympics if no one else wants to or can step up. While I have a very high regard for Malcolm Page for his approach and what he brings to the US Sailing Team, he sure has an incredible challenge ahead of him that I hope he understands by now. I just hope the politics involved do not cloud his ability to field a top level team for 2020.
  11. Enclosed Dinghy Trailer

    However you decide to do it the enclosed trailer is the best way to go. Currently have two 15’ dinghy’s in a 16’ v-nose trailer that I built out for a friend. The square measures 16 feet. With the v-nose we gain enough extra space for a work bench and tool box. Set it up for electrical and run a dehumidifier to keep everything dry. Keeps the road crap off the boats and the sun/ weather off when not in use. With all the high end people in this sport it is surprising there are not more box trailers in use. Hard to deal with a coach boat and racks this way, but if the coach boat is not an issue then the box trailer is awesome for getting all the gear out of the truck and into the trailer.
  12. Youth evolution in sailing

    Interesting comments to the same old topic relating to the Scholastic boats. Sorry for beating such a dead horse. Just that photo of a bath tub screaming upwind just got the better of me. Apologies to the masses here.. The US has been producing incredilble Scholastic sailing talent who ultimately get to sail at the university level for generations now. And a few of these current sailors have even moved on to compete at international events and one even won the Rolex Yachts Women of the year in 2018. So the talent pool in college sailing is and has been incredibly deep. Just a shame they sail such old slow technology. To Mustangs point by keeping the old boats around and replacing them with newer old style boats it does keep a realitively even playing field between the diversity of sailing programs in this country. Sailing the same old shitbox that everyone else sails does put an emphasis on sailing ability and not the boat. It is just sad in my option that this is the rut we have ended up in. I do understand the simplicity in maintaining this style of boat and the effort to contain costs which allows colleges to handle the cost of supporting a team. I just wish it was not this way. And this has shown utimately in our Olympic results and why there are no real high level players currently in any Olympic Dinghy’s here in the US . My opinion of course! This is the reason they had to bring in an Australian to head up the US Olympic effort in sailing. And personally I hope he gets the support he deserves as he is a solid individual. Just look at the recent Miami World Cup event with a couple top college sailors testing the waters in the 470 and other classes only to be far back in the field. It is a huge ask for a current high level college skipper or crew to step up and consider an Olympic bid after focusing on sailing any of the Scholastic boats. And with no real 470,49er, Fin, Nacra racing happening in the US currently you need to leave the country to learn how to be competitive in any of these classes. Since main stream high end dinghy sailing is not prevalent in the US there is no place for our sailors to learn the trade. So is college sailing a result of this or a cause of it? the other comment that I think merits comment is that college sailing is just a cover for an excuse for a party. Like all sailing in its day the party was an awesome experience and I can attest to that first hand. Even at the top end of our sport. That has changed from 20years ago and I know now with family sailing on varsity college teams that this is not a huge part of the current sailing scene they are involved in although I am sure it still is prevalent at some schools. It is very early morning flights to events or long car rides. Late night flights home with early classes the next day. As well as early mornings in the gym. Much of the higher end of college sailing now more resembles the higher end of professional sailing than it does the weekend warrior in my opinion. So with all this effort there should be something more interesting to sail!
  13. So in the US you aspire to be a competitive sailor. You start out at a very young age in an Opti or something similar with your Mom rigging your boat and being told all day which way to go on the race course by your role model the coach. You move on to the Club420, i420, maybe the laser or 29er. Maybe you learn to sail trapeze and spinnaker and are reaching out to colleges in hopes of getting that opportunities to sail in college only to find out the best boats you will sail in college will be a Scholastic 420, FJ, or some other similar to the picture below. And we wonder why we are no longer competitive sailing on an international level such as the Olympics. No surprise to me. Seems pretty basic. flame on by the way this is in no way a snipe at Zim. They are providing a solid product as requested by their customers. They deserve to earn a good living providing a product to the marketplace. He Clun b
  14. Hurricane Harvey - watch out, Texas

    Friend of mine was talking with his cousin north of Corpus. Had 2800 head of cattle. Only has two left. I think this is just the tip of that sad story. Human suffering is tremendous, but there is also going to be a lot more to it with lose of livestock.
  15. Craigslist Finds

    Blasting around on a very breezy day might prove fun. Put foils on it and that might really bring some interest. My son was just enthralled by the boat years ago and all he wanted to do was give it a try. He was young(11) and had been sailing Optis and wanted to try other boats. He had his chance one day in medium breeze (10-15) and his little sister was in her Opti and she had no problem keeping up with him all day long. He was very disappointed and never got on the Bic again. Just had no interest in sailing the boat. Again just one kids perspective. I think there is a place for the class and it should be encouraged for kids looking for that sailing format. That is the great aspect of our sport that it has something for everyone.