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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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About galacticair

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  1. Triton 2 Mast Mount

    Looks really nice -- what did you use as a mold for the lay-up?
  2. Solar panel system, where to buy?

    We also used the Magma BBQ mounts (dual-mount model: T10-580, $48 on Ebay back then). This was for a 100W Renogy framed panel mounted to stanchions on an F-31. Very similar to zzrider's puctures above -- but using the BBQ mounts instead. We attached an aluminum slotted/punched flat bar from the mount across the width of the panel to the panel's outside edge, so that the BBQ mount supported the panel's frame via the flat bar, rather than supporting the panel frame only on the stanchion-side (which might lead the panel to twist). Zzrider's solution seems a bit easier since it just attaches the mount directly to the frame. The BBQ mount provided a solid mount for light/medium airs using the stanchions only, but to make sure things stayed put in heavier airs or waves, we also added a diagonal leg/strut (tripod style) from the outside edge of the panel down to the hull/gunwhale, so that the panel couldn't swing up/down. We made the leg adjustable in length so we could angle the panel up/down if needed (though in practice we always kept the panel angled flat).
  3. Affordable racing tris vs. cats (<35ft)

    The Ad says a "Banks 35". Not sure which one -- looks like a newer build (ad says 1989) of a 1970s design. Were popular up in PNW if you look at this site: http://bcmultihulls.blogspot.com/ (Banks 35 are: Limelight V, Solar Heat) Folks up in PNW may be able to tell us more. To me it looks like a longer version of a Stilleto -- light but pretty low on the water.
  4. Buying a Beach Cat

    ABB -- when I see your posts sometimes I wonder if you're just pulling our legs and trolling us, or actually serious but just young/naive (which I am sure I was too at 11). My point is, I don't think you can typically buy a used boat in pieces -- try asking someone if they will sell you their car without the engine... The seller usually wants full money for the entire piece of kit, or will find someone else to sell to. A mast is not much use to the seller one he has sold his hulls. I appreciate if you're 11 you may not have much of a budget, but then my recommendation is to take it slow, save up and buy a complete boat.. Plus, the way you describe your program, you want to go sailing, so get the full boat, not a piece...! I agree on Hobie 14 -- Hobie 16 or higher is too much boat. I'm don't think 77 lbs is even enough if you're solo -- I saw a thread that says 130lbs is too light. But double should be fine. Try this: https://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/catamarans-for-sale/p15383-1980-hobie-cat-14-turbo-with-trailer.html
  5. R2AK 2018

    Great info -- thanks for all that! I had forgotten the M32 normal crew is 4 people. Your description of gear is similar to ours. We also had a bunch of smaller tools, and even a quart of Splash Zone as well (they don't make them smaller as your boat gets tiny!). And way too many spare AAs/AAAs (Energizer lithium) -- but those didn't weigh all that much ultimately. We barely used our headlamps, and kept our VHFs off most of the trip to keep them ready to use in an emergency. So the only batteries we were regularly swapping out where for the Garmin GPSMap 78 handheld plotter (2 AAs every 18-24h), our Novasail GPS display (sweet piece of kit, only 1 AA every 30-36hrs), and our portable Nav lights (once every 3 days or so). Lose the bucket, definitely . As for privacy -- ha! Agree with your point on experience. Prep is worth a lot, but still need quick thinking on your feet out there!
  6. R2AK 2018

    We went through Porlier pass in 2016 on the F31R and got passed by a bunch of the fleet who had wind all night while we had none at all. We chose Porlier as Active pass tide was turning as we approached, and we weren't confident rowing through it (Nice Pair seems to have powered through, but they had a very strong 4-person rowing system). So yes, shorter, but not faster under sail... The Van Isle 360 results I've seen seem to corroborate this, with Active Pass or round Saturna generally winning out (I'm not a local though so I've only glanced at a few threads on the subject). In 2015 however, Porlier seems to have been a winner for Elsie Piddock (unless they went all the way to Gabriola Pass? not sure I remember correctly). It was a way windier year, so the inshore protection in that case may have been worth it.
  7. Buying a Beach Cat

    Look at the forum on https://www.thebeachcats.com/. There's plenty of tips and advice there on what kinds of beachcats make sense. Plus the best list of classifieds online (also look at Craigslist -- lots of cats there). That will give you a good sense of what you get per $. Hobie Cats of various types are easy to find for <$2K used, in many cases you can also find for <$1K for an older boat. Depends of course on what boat. A used cat is often not expensive, and many of the things that are worn can be fairly easy repaired (lines, rigging, hulls), for not too much $. What is most costly is sails -- a used boat will typically cost less than a new set of sails (sails can run $1.5-4K depending on how many the boat has). So be picky about what sails a boat comes with. Some boats that have been raced have several sets so you can use the practice set on usual days and still race with the better sails when needed. Other things that are expensive are tramps and masts. Keep in mind your weight and the recommended crew weights for each boat type. You need enough weight to self-right after a capsize. I remember as a ~15 year old having a hard time righting a Hobie 16 with my brother. And finally, keep in mind what you plan to do with the boat. If you like racing, you should find a boat that has a local class. I personally don't enjoy as much doing donuts on the water just for fun (to each his own), so I like knowing I'm on a boat that has an active class in the area. Pro tip: I love beach cats, but be open minded about other classes.... A lot of people who like beach cats have migrated to kite-boarding. Much faster to setup, you can go for a quick joyride in half the time. And the adrenaline rush is incomparable. Or even a good mono dinghy -- I raced real 420s as a teen in Europe (with spinnaker and trapeze) and those had plenty of fun moments planning downwind, with awesome wipe-outs too, with a nice local class to sail against. Not sure what you have in your area, but definitely look around.
  8. Constrictor clutch as halyard lock

    Somewhat off topic from the OP's questions, but more broadly about constrictors -- what are the main reasons to use them? I get it they're being used more and more on race boats, so there's clearly something appealing about them. Just looking at weights & costs, it's not super obvious to me. What am I not getting? Spinlock clutches specs: XAS 6-12mm (575kg SWL, $82 single, or $160 for double): 270g, or 500g for double XTS (6-10mm) (1000kg SWL, $143 single or $258 for double): 545g, or 1050g for double XCS (6-10mm) (1000kg SWL, $231 single or $360 for double): 630g, or 1130g for double XX 8-12mm (1800kg SWL, $463 single): 1052g Ronstan constrictor specs: 6mm constrictor (750kg breaking load, $165): 150g 10mm constrictor (2240kg breaking load, $165): 160g So Ronstan's 6mm constrictor seems to compete with XAS on working load, costs 2x to save 120g. The 10mm constrictor competes with XTS, costs 15% more to saves 425g. I can see how the comparison is pretty close for higher working loads once you compare to XTS, so the weight savings there start to make sense. For smaller loads however, it seems XAS would be just fine. Either way, with 10-16 clutches on many boats it doesn't seem like a massive weight saving (4-7kg for an all XTS-boat) for the replacement cost, unless you're dealing with a broken clutch and you're going to be paying for a new one anyways... I do like that the constrictor can release under load without a winch, unlike a clutch. That seems handy in a number of applications. And the lower chaffing on lines sounds nice too.
  9. Vulcan 7 - Deal ??

    I've been eyeing these too. There are 2 B&G Vulcan 7 models. Old Vulcan 7 (aka "FS" for forward scan): part # 000-12456-001. This was released in ~Q2 2015. $399 on Defender (new). New Vulcan 7 (aka "R" for radar): part # 000-14082-001. Released in Q3/Q4 2017. $699 on Defender (new). The new has similar size/box specs, but the key difference is it added a Radar port. Still no real B&G ethernet port (they call the Radar port "ethernet", but as with some of the entry-level Garmin plotters it seems this is only partial ethernet functionality) -- so you can't interface the Vulcan with other B&G displays (other Vulcans, Zeus) and share charts/routing/waypoints (though multiple displays can still talk on a more limited basis via NMEA 2000). They also have different software, and those seem to drive some differences in features -- read the manuals to see. For example, the new 7 mentions a "mast rotation" input option (like the Zeus plotters) that doesn't need to come via H5000, though it's not clear to me how that works (I've asked B&G support and they never replied). It's always hard to tell if the manuals are complete or up to date, so if you're really interested and don't need radar, you might have to order one of each and test the differences live... Vulcan also seems to have updated the 5'' and 9'' models, though the 5'' still has no radar, so the updates to those may not be as notable as the 7''. That being said, in terms of future support, clearly B&G is more likely to support the newer "R" series with additional software supports, so unless you really need to save the extra $300, I'd think you're better off getting the newer model...
  10. R2AK 2018

    +1 on the compelling nature of seeing all the different boats match up. There were a lot of interesting pairs of boats racing tightly last year with very different design choices. Us on the Inter 20 vs. Wilds Ones on the O'Day 27, you on the G32 vs. Roger Mann on his custom tri... North 2 Alaska on one of the most surprising boats of all vs. Global Diving, etc. Regarding weight, I partly agree that a boat has to be able to carry more weight than normal design/racing conditions. But on the other hand think about Karl on his paddleboard -- he didn't have all that much weight capacity. You make do with what you have and plan accordingly... On the Inter 20 we had a lot of extra weight, but we also knew it was a boat with enough volume that could sail with 3 people's weight and still do fine. We were on the light-end of Inter 20 crew racing weights (more at F-18 crew weights). Our wings ate all of that margin up and then some (60lbs), and then we had a pedal drive (20lbs?), safety/electronics gear, food and water. It all added up to basically a 3rd person, and the boat definitely felt sluggish vs. our sailing in San Francisco, particularly upwind. That didn't stop us from hitting 19.2 knots on the GPS under spinnaker... We definitely left off the packing list some things we might have otherwise brought -- no sleeping bags, fewer spare clothes, fewer spare parts. I think it was the same story for the M32. They kept the weight well down, but I'm sure the boat was still heavy vs. normal, and they sailed more conservatively anyways than they would have on a day sail. But they didn't need to be at 90% or 100% to do an awesome race.
  11. Day-racer lithium battery -- experience with Kinetik?

    I should add that I was trawling through SA and found this recent thread, which was pretty long and at times off-topic, but informative overall: The summary seems to be that lithium LiFePo4 batteries don't enjoy staying at 100% SOC, which is what I'd normally plan if charging from shore power in between weekends. So that might be a deal-killer -- it sounds like the only way to use LiFePo4 intermittently effectively, without killing them, would be to use them for the weekend, leave them uncharged well below 100% SOC for the week, and charge them up on Friday or Saturday morning. Which would be a clear pain to do unless I took the battery back home each time and remembered to charge them before going sailing. The thread also suggests that "drop-in" lithium batteries don't deliver on their promise (the Kinetik bill themselves as "drop-ins") -- it sounds like one needs a proper lithium-friendly battery management and charging system. Which all sounds like too much work and cost for little gain in a weekend day racing application... But I'd still love to hear anyone who has experience and advice either for or against LiFePo4 in this application. Maybe there's a better approach.
  12. J/109 needs new batteries

    Given you race a lot, care about weight, probably have occasional deeper discharges (while cruising) but ways to charge up easily (engine+shore power), I think Fireflies are a good bet. Just get a smaller bank and tailor the effective capacity to be similar -- replace the 3x Lifelines with 2x Fireflies, one in each bank. That cuts you from 192lbs to 152lbs, probably saves you some money, and gives you 6% more effective capacity. Maybe keep a small starter battery around (unplugged but charged) on longer trips so you have a reserve starter battery to swap in as a #2 bank if either of your Fireflies fails or can't crank hard enough to start the engine -- I'm not sure how well they crank at 20-30% SOC. I'm no electrician so don't treat this as pro advice, but the Fireflies get a lot of nice commentary, and they worked well on the F-31 tri. 2x house bank batteries may still be overkill for your needs IMO. If you really want to cut down on weight, I'd consider just 1x Firefly for your house bank, and a dual-purpose or more starting focused battery for the #2 bank. Should be plenty for electronics, unless you run a fridge continuously or have powered winches/windlass... I don't have experience with them, but Lifeline GPL-1400T or Odyssey's 34M-PC1500 seem to fit the bill for a starter battery (or even a non-brand name starter Led Acid or AGM since your starter battery won't get much use...). In that case I think you probably want to start on your #2 (starter) and then switch to #1 for house loads, rather than using "both" all the time. You probably already have this, but make sure you have a charging relay switch between #1 and #2 (or another way to charge both banks) -- the alternator should directly charge the starter battery first (typically the closest to the engine), and then the relay can charge both banks.
  13. I'm currently thinking about options for a very smaller battery pack for a day racing <30ft multihull with low loads (TackTick, 7'' plotter, VHF) and a hand-started outboard engine, where light weight is critical. I'm intrigued by lithium LiFePo4 batteries -- either Mastervolt or the Kinetik batteries sold by West Marine. I've never heard of Kinetik -- does anyone have any experience with them? (from Google they seem to be more automobile focused). Here's a comparison of similar batteries: LiFePo4 (Kinetik brand): only 12Ah but they say equivalent to 30Ah, 4.5 lbs, $320 LiFePo4 (Mastervolt MLS 12/130): only 10Ah, 3.5 lbs, $220 Standard dual-purpose AGM (West Marine): 32Ah, 24 lbs, $160 I don't really buy WestMarine's spec that a 12Ah LiFePo4 is equivalent available capacity as a 30Ah bank. Assuming the LiFePo4 can be discharged 100% vs. only 50% for a standard AGM, I'd count on 12Ah LiFePo4 being closer to 24Ah AGM equivalent... I assume we would probably need 20-30Ah for a day racing (assuming ~1.5Ah to run plotter plus VHF, for 12hrs+), so thinking two Lithium batteries. That might yield a saving of ~20lbs vs. a comparable 35-40Ah AGM. Not cheap per pound, but not the most outrageous either for a nice weight saving. Boat currently has a larger battery bank, so either way the weight will come down. Any suggestions from people with similar experience on weight-sensitive dayboats?
  14. J/109 needs new batteries

    You can add Odyssey AGM to the short-list I think. You probably need to tell us a bit more: How do you use your boat? How much do you care about deep discharge? How about weight? It all depends whether you cruise a lot away from charging areas, whether you have on-board charging options (alternator, solar...), whether you race, etc. I do think it's a good idea to have a dedicated engine battery, but I'm not sure you need it to be a starter battery, depending on your engine size (I'll let others provide more input here). For R2AK on a F-31 trimaran, we replaced three batteries totaling 260Ah with two Firefly AGMs (105Ah each). That replaced two big 6V Gel batteries (total 160Ah) and a 100Ah AGM battery. We netted out with a lot less weight, a nominally smaller battery bank (210Ah instead of 260Ah), but significantly higher effective capacity since the Fireflies can discharge 80% vs. 50% for standard AGM/Gel. We had a 100W solar panel to charge us up, had low loads (LED nav lights, a 7'' plotter, VHF, TackTick, some iphones, some autopilot time). With all that, the battery bank stayed well charged throughout our 8 day trip (at most dropped to ~60-65% SOC at night), so in fact I think we could have cut down to a single Firefly 105Ah. The batteries continue to work fine for the boat's regular season racing, and start a 9.9HP outboard without problem. So depending on your program, your current battery bank may be a bit overkill.
  15. Affordable racing tris vs. cats (<35ft)

    Good deal ($80K) on a F-25C up in Seattle with basically brand new sails: https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/d/farrier-25c-race-trimaran/6496222856.html. A bit too high for my budget, but I suspect this is going to make one multihull sailor mighty happy... In the meantime, less than 48H left on bidding Hurts Like Heaven, an even better deal (I suspect): https://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=1546764972. TradeMe is limited to residents of NZ or AUS, so I figure I'm going to be watching this one from afar -- otherwise I'd be sinking my teeth in with a decent offer...!