• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Olson_30_Guy

Members
  • Content count

    13
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

0 Neutral

About Olson_30_Guy

  • Rank
    Newbie

Profile Information

  • Location
    Baltimore, MD.
  • Interests
    J/70, Olson-30
  1. J70, cheating and pros

    This is relevant because I am trying to describe the operating space in which cheating has become rampant and mostly unenforceable. Outside of a world championship the measurement tools that were used to say these boats were out of spec are not available. You have a situation where pulling keels and working of keels and Delrins is perfectly reasonable but no way to verify other than subjective observation from local class measurement officials (basically ME level people) if boats are "as built". It is a situation that BEGS for cheating. How do you draw the line between those making repairs in good faith and those who are blatantly cheating? You make a grave mistake by assuming that I am somehow excusing cheating. These teams were blatantly cheating as many more have as well. They should all be tossed and rule 69 proceedings should follow for owners and pros alike. My point is that this is all completely inevitable and predictable without verifiable standards in a setting where working on keels well beyond "polishing" is necessary for almost all boats at some point. The enforcement action in Italy is welcome and a great first step. You cannot understand why this form of cheating has proliferated without understanding this issues going on in the class or with the boats.
  2. J70, cheating and pros

    Of course they are cheating. That wasn't my point at all. My point was the builders created the grey area that people have been exploiting for years. You have to repair the boats and there is no way for someone NOT at a Worlds event where the builders bust out measurement tools that are not normally available... for anyone to say a competitor who reasonably removed their keel is in compliance after repair. So people predictably take advantage of that. It simply isn't enough to say you cant alter something. You need standards.
  3. J70, cheating and pros

    For me the issue is repairing, not fairing... for instance to replace my wedges (in a first run 2012 boat) I have to basically cut the replacements in half with a band saw lengthwise, then sand them down, then make final adjustments in the boat itself. And that is working from duplicating wedges that are falling apart.... Remember wedges on later boats are significantly larger, the hole patterns differ, the keel boxes themselves are different. Now you tell me that the keel I have just "repaired" is in the same place as the one that was in the boat from the factory... In other instances hitting a large pothole while trailering required grinding out and rebuilding a large section of the keel... you tell me if my keel holds the same shape/profile as it was from the factory... THIS is the grey area in which rampant cheating has occurred. It is perfectly reasonable for anyone to argue that they need remove keels and wedges and work on them. Who is to say they went back in the same place??? Without clear tools and templates it simply invites cheating. This was easily predictable.
  4. J70, cheating and pros

    This is long past due... and I commend the class for taking action on this... though the class and J-boats has to take some blame for creating the situation in the first place. We have not had the tools to adequately measure keels and people predictably have filled the void. The builders have steadfastly refused to provide templates and other measurement tools. This is basically because there are wild variances in the keels as they come from the factory. There are multiple molds per builder and now multiple builders and tolerances are not strictly enforced. Moreover, the design of the keel Delrins has varied widely and changed over time. If you have an early boat (as I do) you can't even order replacements as the originals break down (they break down and break apart...). You have to heavily modify those that are available on the market. The originals are much thinner. Add to this a crap keel box design that results in sometimes heavy damage (i.e. structural damage, not just scratches) from trailing with the keel up (too small to insert adequate protection, too large to hold snugly in place) there is MORE than enough reason to be regularly removing the keels form the boats totally legitimately. Most serious programs have gone to expensive keel down trailers for this reason... So you have a situation where it is totally reasonable to be pulling keels, Delrins, etc on a regular basis and no ability to measure after repairs to make sure the boats are in spec... what the hell did they think people were going to do??... There is a rule now that you have to have your boat re-certified every time you pull your keel, but the class measurement folks have zero ability to tell if say the new Delrins you had to cut up and sand down after getting them resulted in a keel that is in the "right" place... because there is no "right" place. The "right" place is where it originally sat from the factory, but that differs from boat to boat. Without widely available measurement tools there is no way to tell even for us folks who AREN'T trying to cheat. But the builders REFUSED to provide these because they don't want to be found selling boats out of spec or have to spend the money to tighten up the quality controls. Make no mistake this situation started with the builders. The only solution is widely available templates. Unfortunately this probably means many unaltered boats won't measure in. The whole thing is a total mess and it is no wonder people abused the system. At least they are STARTING to do something about it.
  5. Kids with helmets...WTF

    For a bit of perspective... I have had 5 major concussions (2 from sailing) and likely countless other small ones from years of contacts sports, skiing, sailing, and life in general. This started early in my life and progressed over time. If I so much as take an elbow to the head now I lose 2 to 3 months of my life recovering in a best case scenario. The worst case scenario would be death. I do not begrudge parents who wish to forestall this potential fate. In general the stigma in sailing around helmets is toxic. I wear one now simply so that I can still enjoy the sport, and I will continue to do so. I mainly race J/70's now, and while it is a relatively safe boat, its just not worth the risk. Even for someone in my situation laughs and ridicule on the course are common. This culture led me to not be wearing a helmet the last time I got hurt and that's a problem. When I was a ski racer in the late 90's and early 2000's we were the only people on the mountain in helmets and most people sneered. 20 years later you would get laughed at for not wearing one. All of the excuses people made for why people shouldn't have them have fallen away as people have simply gotten used to them. The toxic culture is gone and everyone is better off for it. How about we just take a step back and lay off for a bit. People can make their own decisions about what is best for themselves and their children. They don't need or deserve your ridicule.
  6. FE28R Tuning Guide anyone?

    Just took delivery of USA-293 and will be racing mainly in Baltimore and Annapolis. Trying to scratch up at least a starting point tuning guide. I have been playing in the J/70 fleet these last 4 seasons and I have to say having abundant information out there is very helpful and improves the racing. Has anyone over in Sweden put together anything you are willing to share? How about the Aussies? Thanks in advance! -Jon
  7. Annapolis Yacht Club fire

    I have to say that as an SSA member I cringed a bit at the reference in the post. Not really appropriate while the building is still smoldering... While SSA is in reality the complete and total antithesis of AYC, and while AYC simply isn't for me and I would never join, I think that they both have a place in the sailing world. Moreover, in reality, a number of people are members of both clubs (albeit the wealthier ones)... To correct a prior post there IS actually overlap in the fleets in the two clubs, though it is mainly in the Keelboats (J/70, J/22, etc). Among these classes there is a fair amount of mutual cooperation between the clubs, not animosity. Also as far as WNR is concerned, AYC lets in OD boats from any of the clubs, so I am happy there (J70). It is only PHRF that is restricted. AYC and SSA also cooperate in supporting youth events, team racing and lager regattas like the NOOD. The clubs are different. They serve two completely different purposes and in many ways different sailors, though there is overlap. I would never be a member of AYC, though do I believe the Annapolis sailing world would be better off without AYC.... Simply put, no I do not.
  8. J/88

    "remember the shoal draft 105's" Ha yes and they were all proven to pretty much be fools and everyone promptly got regular 105's... Very true you aren't going gunk holing with a draft of 6.5, but you aren't doing that either with anything over 4.5. There have been a number of successful OD fleets on the bay that weren't really "bay boats". I WOULD have serious pause though with the no Genoa thing if this boat is forever relegated to the PHRF fleets. It is rather silly, for example, what an Olson-30 with a 155% Genoa will do to a J-105 upwind in anything under 10kts... And we have dying breezes quiet often on the bay. So unless there is OD whats the point of the boat? And on that front I have to go back to the pricing and the fact that people just aren't going to move out of their current boats in numbers to create an OD fleet for a 29ft racer/daysailer with 'some' accommodations at over $160K sail away. If there is OD I am all for this boat, and want one. Without it...
  9. J/88

    I spoke to Ken Comerford at North Point Yacht Sales about a month ago, he said they sold so many 70s there was no one left to buy the 88. There is one there but it didn't sound like the owner plans to do a whole lot of racing. The j88 is not a Farr 280, but it's a lot of fun to sail and seems solidly built. Not sure if I fully buy the J/70 vs J/88 argument as a reason. They serve two very different purposes. I like the 70 a lot but I do more with my boat than just race (though i mostly race and race often). I could not have the 70 as my only boat. There may be some overlap in potential buyers, but I am not sure if they are really the same group. I could be completely off on that though.
  10. J/88

    True there are a number of expensive boats out there. Though I guess my point is that if you can't come up with a package for a boat like this that is attractive enough from both the boat and price perspective to get people out of their current boats and create a fleet what is the point of doing the boat at all? Then you just have the J-92s again. I really really like this boat. I guess time will tell if I start seeing them out on the bay in numbers.
  11. J/88

    Anyone know what hull# they are up to with these at this point? Is there anyone starting to race these in the Annapolis area (I have yet to see any)? In theory I am very very interested in this boat but the price seems very high (sail away in excess of $160K... or more), which may mean no OD racing ever appears. Without the development of a solid OD fleet in the area the price seems even more unrealistic. Does anyone want a $170K 29ft PHRF boat? Seems like they should have targeted a sail away price around $110K tops. That is where I (and probably a number of others) would likely buy one. On paper it ticks almost all of the boxes that I am looking for. The price and as a result the sketchy prospects for a real OD fleet in the area leave me scratching my head...