Skol

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About Skol

  • Rank
    Anarchist
  • Birthday 01/01/1974

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  • Location
    Brest, Bretagne
  • Interests
    foredeck overboard expert. PBR can spinnaker pole construction. bailing water.

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  1. Skol

    Went to look at a Catalina 22....

    You're a natural born Ericson sailor, Sir! lol Those spreader plates are real similar to the kit I mentioned before. If you haven't posted the CAD pic and info already to EYO I'm betting you'll find a few appreciative folks. With Polish Girl and all the refitting, that's a very happy looking E-23. Nice work and thanks for updating the thread - really cool to see 'er out on the water w/ no regrets about the GOB route. Surely there is more photo documentation of Polish Girl bringing the gelcoat back to life? For purely technical interests. cheers
  2. Skol

    Went to look at a Catalina 22....

    Lark, my boat experience is all in-water, so I don't have direct experience for you. What I know is that the stuff that's marketed as "dux" is a lot more stiff than regular amsteel. it's not as stiff as wire but it shouldn't snag because of kinking while laying untensioned. A bonus for regular Amsteel I think would be keeping it neatly coiled on deck while the stick is down. I'm a little OCD so maybe that's just me. the WLL for amsteel, dux, and dyneema branded ropes are all so high that I wouldn't give a second thought to UV exposure and the 5 yrs of hard use. My first handling of amsteel was with jeeps and land rovers. winching 5k of truck through hub-deep mud filled with roots and rocks is a lot scarier to me than popping a shroud. broken winch cables have been known to slice through people. when synthetic pops it just falls to the ground. the couple times I've seen it fail there was damage to rig or tree from stored energy in kinetic straps, not the rope itself.
  3. Skol

    Went to look at a Catalina 22....

    Tempest, your rigger's prices seem super competitive (good) to me, and it makes me happy to see you addressing this now. The advantage to this route is that it gets done and gets you on the water sooner. The advantage to synthetic route is elitism and a stiffer boat for roughly the same cost. If you decide to convert in a couple years all those SS turnbuckles are still a good, reusable. investment. After you get the rigging and the spreaders done, I'd splash it. New sails will improve the boat 100%, but without a baseline to compare them with it won't be obvious on your first boat, never mind a new-to-you boat. run whatcha got, chill some cold ones and get 'er splashed!
  4. Skol

    Went to look at a Catalina 22....

    keep digging on the forums and you'll understand the issues a bit better. the rigging you've got is dead as a door nail for sure. So - 5mm Sk75 dyneema is a bit over $1 /ft and plenty UV resistant for a trailered boat. this stuff is what the fishing industry uses offshore in conditions we can't even dream of in our worst nightmares if we tried. 30 ft stick comes out to roughly 175ft total for lowers, uppers, stays. so less than 200 bucks. the big costs are hardware. Colligo Marine's prices seem to have crept up a bit since I last looked, but you'll need the spreader tangs, dead eyes, and new turnbuckles (which you'll want same as wire, anyway). So it comes down to the swaging costs + material from the rigger compared to the sexy hard parts from colligo. I wouldn't trust swaged terminals of my own doing, and the sta-loc bits are $$$. a feller with a SJ 24 came to the same conclusions as I did - more on his blog here: http://restore24.blogspot.fr/2013/04/colligo-dux-standing-rigging.html he made his own hw parts and the cost came out to be less than wire. not many folks have gone this route because it seems like a break from the tried and true, but I think the synthetic is better in every way. I recall reading somewhere that losing 1lb aloft is like adding 6lbs in the keel. you're getting back a lot of righting moment which means a stiffer boat. re: spreaders - you're not looking to go offshore or do a lot of racing, so normal spreader replacement kit and riveted brackets will work fine. I don't see a dimple like I had on mine. new hw here will likely still set you back ~200 - 400. EYO is the best place to find exact details. on the round vs. foil spreader debate, I'd go with what's economical for your purposes (round). I agree with Jim - that bulkhead doesn't look so good as the core is clearly delaminated at the top. You've got your work cut out for you there. I'd worry about the gelcoat and cosmetic stuff last. The bow looks about like mine did, right down to the ugly anchor setup. Lots of good info to be had online for using West system to fill and redrill holes. But don't remove a single screw until you're ready to do the whole job! If you caulk the crap out of it you can keep enough water out for this season to delay it until next year (epoxy likes heat to cure). Not sure about the deck on the 23. My 27 was balsa. also I agree 100% with Lark about the bottom. no need for ablative paint on a trailer boat. sand the bottom, fair it, then roll 'n tip with a hard paint for easy cleaning.
  5. I like your thinkin', and I've had the same path of thought, roughly. I've had a GOB, classic wood boats, and now want to build a modern boat in wood. I know your waters (Seattleite for 15 yrs), and I think you'll be fine with the vessel you describe. the big deal there of course is keeping out of the way of the ferries, and having enough power to keep ch16 open and the ability to burn good navigation lights. Going down the coast on her bottom could be feasible, but you'll trailer it back home. You know the best way from San Diego or SF back to Seattle is through Hawaii. For a good idea of a southward coastal journey, lookup the blog for "Cruising Lealea", a retired couple that cruise an intrepid Albin Vega 27 GOB. They have a good log too of the voyage from Hawaii -> PNW, and are posting regularly about a years long refit of the AV 27. The waters around here seem no less epic. The Iroise on an angry day is something to behold. Celtic sea to the north, bay of Biscay to the south. There are a lot of fair weather days for light and moderate wind sailing, and wx is fairly predictable so small craft can be deployed with common sense. I like the woods designed tris and will probably go that route to try something new (and fast).
  6. yeah - I think I get it. don't be fooled by craigslist prices on GOB (good old boats). A 4k boat is a 15k - 20k investment to do what you want to do. I've been down this road once and will never do it again. If you're not OD racing, I am now of the opinion that it's easier and more cost effective to build or have someone else build the hull of the exact boat you want. Sure, you can do some fine bay sailing for less money on a GOB but it's not going to be in a condition that you could trust your life with it in adverse conditions. Once you've rehabilitated the mast, replaced all the rigging (and I mean *all* of the rigging), refastened and/or beefed up the chainplates, fixed the soft spots in the deck, and rebedded and/or replaced all the deck hardware - congratulations. you've just built a new boat. EPIRBs, exposure suits, AIS, SSB, and other necessary equipment for offshore passage making doesn't give a shit about what boat it's on. All that stuff adds up. back to boats - certainly I'm not of the opinion that safety or seaworthiness is a function of waterline length, but speed is. At some point you need to go upwind, and sometimes you need waterline to make speed against both current and wind alike. Historically speaking, ~20ft seems to be a practical limit for WLL on an engineless boat, with much more from the overhangs when stretched out on her beam. The old square meter designs, J-boats, 5.5 class, Folkboat (already mentioned), and lots of other traditional boats with a full keel, fine entry and narrow beams really excel beating to windward without beating the shit out of the crew. You can semi-sail a cork with a spinnaker around the globe if you time your legs with trades and currents - everything depends on what kind of passages you want to make and where. A lot of lightweight boats are built to go fast downhill and that's fine sailing inside of established cruising areas with a modicum of common sense. For big crossings, a lot of those small boat guys are selling their boats after arriving some weeks to a new destination (esp. the E-W Hawaii runs) because they can't handle the local conditions when they get there. When coastal sailing in high latitudes, or island hopping the wrong direction at the edge of the wrong time of the year, your life is going to be in the hands of upwind ability while being reefed and under shortened sail. If there's nowhere to run, you could just as easily die of fatigue trying to beat up wind. So pay attention to waterline and the ability to get off a lee shore, coral heads, and whatever else might be waiting for you out there with it's claws out in the dark. closing thought - I truly believe the newer design features that incorporate sealed flotation compartments, water ballast in combination with leaded drop keels, and crush boxes in the bow are all inherently safer than anything found on a GOB, including the ones I speak fondly of. Don't fool yourself. A turtled Cal 20 is going to the bottom.
  7. I think the OP is more interested in engineless to keep it simple and avoid the hassle of auxiliary power. I could be wrong there, but I like the concept. Speaking of - a buddy of mine fabricated some beefy oarlocks into the cockpit of his engineless Pearson Triton(!). Each oar is about 3 meters long IIRC. For getting in and out of marina slips (he's on the outside dock of a very wide channel, so not much interference - get the bow pointed at the slip, row like hell and let momentum do the rest), dodging rocks on low wind/high current days, or rowing maybe 200 yards down a channel it's great. Echo'ing someone else's comment above about rowing a displacement boat, any more than that is an unsustainable effort. I highly recommend looking at a yuloh to scull the boat from the stern instead of oars. You can scull the boat pretty well while standing up and be facing forward, and it's more practical for powering in and around marinas since the oars aren't interfering with anything abeam of the boat. There's a great race during one of the maritime festivals here in Brittany where people race ~20ft workboats around a little course in L'Aber W'rach marina. Properly motivated those little boats were leaving a nice wake, and I think the women's race was quicker!
  8. From the same site: http://bandbyachtdesigns.com/20mk3/ checks off all the OP's boxes including oars. How blue is blue water? If a guy can paddle a standup dinghy across the Atlantic surely this thing can make it, too. Add up the cost of a complete cal 20 refit including acquisition, then price the build kit on this thing. No contest, and this looks like a much better designed boat for short handed sailing.
  9. Skol

    Went to look at a Catalina 22....

    He's gonna get bored of Pond sailing real quick when he's got the strait of Georgia in his back yard And Hell yeah! Synthetic is so much nicer than wire and I think splicing rope for DIY guys is better than swaging terminals. Once you add up all the hard parts for terminals and bottle screws or turnbuckles for wire, changing over to synthetic just isn't that much more expensive on a small boat. Also - soft sail hanks on a synthetic forestay will make handling genoas a lot easier. Lastly, since this is a ramp launched boat it's going to be easier with synthetic. Fair bottom, good rigging, a strong spar and spreaders, and crisp sails are the important parts. Strip everything inside to the hull, replace any thruhulls with marlon and worry about the rest over the winter.
  10. so do 26' westerly centaurs, but I don't think you could accuse them of racing I have never seen the EC22 until this thread. what a cool boat.
  11. Skol

    Went to look at a Catalina 22....

    Since you're an SA'er first and we love to spend other people's money, it's time to talk about what kind of rigging. On your E-23 you can probably easily shave 20-30lbs of weight aloft if you go synthetic on the standing rigging: colligo dux, new england ropes HSR heat set stuff, or since this is a trailer sailer, regular dyneema would be just fine assuming the shrouds and stays are stored out of the sun. Rig a ground anchor somewhere and use your diesel truck to pre-stretch the shrouds and set your splices. ditto on all the halyards.upgrade the sheaves for rope (as they are surely v-sheaves for wire), and use soft shackles on everything - no hard parts. L-36.com has loads of good info here. few other items - Ericson glassed the chainplates into the hull. It's rare for them to pull out but not unheard of. People have different philosophies on repair. my vote is for a hole through the hull and chainplate, SS thru-bolt + loads of exoxy. Some swap over to external chainplates but this kills your sheeting angles on the jib, and you need all the help you can get. Since you're single and don't have kids, I'd seal off the stanchion holes and ditch the lifelines unless you plan racing, in which case rip it all out and reseal it anyway with epoxy, then drill new holes and use G10 backing plates where you're able. synthetic on the lifelines is also nicer than the plastic covered wire. at the bow, you're going to want to carefully un-fuck any and everything that's been bolted to it - nav lights, ill-advised anchor fittings, cleats, and the pulpit. pull it all out, dig out the core a bit in the holes and epoxy the shit out of everything, then redrill and re-install. it's a biggish job but straight forward.
  12. and lots more doing fair-weather the beam-reach / downhill runs to hawaii from california in small boats. but crossing the pacific and atlantic with best known seafaring routes to western minds is not a tour of the great capes and all her seas. I think transat and transpac crossings, while not to be taken lightly, can maybe give some a sense of overconfidence. To date I still have crossed neither, and not sure when or if I ever will. I really like small boats but I don't have a death wish. I've talked to guys who had their asses handed to them in the indian ocean on 39 ft cruisers, having dealt with cracks in the keel from rigging strain, multiple knockdowns, broken steering etc - all the fun stuff. or there's stories like the crew who got knocked into davey jones locker from a 100ft rogue wave off the e. coast of africa. 2 lost at sea, 2 hobbled into port. bad shit happens to great sailors and the best of boats. again - I don't think the ability to handle the transat means much.
  13. Skol

    Went to look at a Catalina 22....

    Ericson are indeed the champagne of 70's production plastic classics, some with more cork damage than others. Much has been written about plastic liner boats, most rooted in misinformation and contempt. My first sailboat was an ericson 27 and I loved it, but I didn't have the cash to finish a refit before having to move. Some of my plight is recorded here in SA and on EYO under the same user name. The spar repair kit was about 700 usd including new spreaders and brackets, iirc. What happens is that one or both of the cast metal spreader brackets develops a crack and breaks, giving the spreader room to wiggle under load. As a result a dimple forms in the mast. Check yours - you might be lucky and not need it but it's a known weak point. Once the stick and rigging are upgraded, fear no winds nor seas. The bulbous and odd shapes of the ericson boats love breeze - and a lot of it. They are tender when first meeting the wind but stiffen up as it piles on. The rudder will lose grip before you can dunk the rail. Also - the slug keel will point higher than you might guess. Not fast boats but not complete slugs, either, and every one I've helmed up to 35 are a real joy to sail. Looking forward to your progress.
  14. Skol

    Went to look at a Catalina 22....

    congrats, and cool! - the Ericson 23 is a sharp little boat when spruced up, and plenty tough for beating around the strait. EYO is a great site. All the mindshare you could ask for is there, including suppliers and refit info. The hull dent looks a bit of a bummer but can be corrected with enough elbow grease. you may need some kind of internal form to push it out, and depending on depth of the shallow fill, glass, and fair it. welcome to the Bruce King club. btw - ballenger spars down in cali has a great kit to reinforce the mast at the spreaders. just call 'em up. spendy but beefy.
  15. Skol

    Went to look at a Catalina 22....

    Brewing beer and kicking around boats. ah, PNW! makes me homesick but thanks for the pic and egging me on. Long before I bought my first boat in GRP, I had a mag subscription to Wooden Boat and dreamed of restoring something. T-Birds, Kings Cruiser, and Folkboats had my attention at first, then in SF I discovered the Bear Boats and the Bird Boats. I wanted to rescue a Bear Boat real bad but I ended up moving. WB features more modern stuff, too - like this little mini 6.5 shaped micro-cruiser. http://www.woodenboat.com/blacktip If you're open to little tubs like the Wight Potter, have a look-see on Cruising Anarchy's own Dylan Winter and his Keep Turning Left series. That guy has covered more miles than most and is an ardent defender of pudgy little cruisers. I don't have to remind you, but you're smack dab in the middle of one of the world's most premier sailing and cruising destinations. Scooting across and over to Nanaimo and Victoria, or up north through into passage is easily done. Setting a hook down overnight in a cove with a small boat is easy and a real joy. Somebody could spend the rest of their days exploring what's right there in your back yard with a small boat. https://www.youtube.com/user/KeepTurningLeft