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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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Everything posted by JimC

  1. FP Lawyer up bro

    So, were the protest committee all lawyered up and everything or was it only Mr Witt? In other words did he choose to bring a gun to a handbag fight? I suppose we've all got the right to spend $40,000 in paying lawyers to attend every misconduct hearing we might be involved in if we so desire, and it would probably be wrong to prohibit it.
  2. Most clubs would say that their safety boats are there to mind every club member who's out there sailing. We were all beginners once. If you persistently go out in conditions which you can't handle and monopolise the safety boat then they might have a little word, but as long as you are sensible... Check with the club secretary or whoever if you like, but that would be conventional policy.
  3. Well I dunno, I've capsized a Vortex. It don't recall it being a big deal to get upright again. You just had to figure it out and do it steadily. The big thing about all the stability is that its pretty reluctant to blow straight over again which is the biggest irritation with singlehanders. I don't, however, recommend trying to do the "wild thing" downwind in one which was how I contrived to make it fall over in the first place. Leave the kite in the bag and I reckon it should be a reasonable training platform. The other thing to do is to see if you can invoke the assistance of a second person for early trips. There is room for a second body for coaching purposes. I certainly don't think there's a more suitable platform for entry level trapeze helming However the one thing that makes me ponder a bit is experience and venue. On a nice docile lake I'd be inclined to say have a go, but if you're going to sail on Southampton water which kicks up a bit and has serious tides and shipping maybe I'm thinking that an intermediate stage would be good and get a few months in a sub trapeze boat before going on to the wire. (Michele - the "wild thing" is a technique used by very advanced level Catamaran sailors of sailing the boat downwind with some or all crew weight on the lee side so that only one hull is in the water. The Vortex is too narrow for it to work).
  4. I've not sailed a vortex a huge amount, but it did strike me as a reasonable platform for learning trapeze helm, especially if you're not an experienced wiring forward hand. I've done some coaching of a learner trap helm in one sitting on the lee side, which I wouldn't care to do so much in something less tolerant. The extra rag is a distraction, but you can always leave it on shore.
  5. Youth evolution in sailing

    I think precious few potential Olympic sailors in the UK will be sailing school owned boats or doing school based sailing. The Olympic prospects come through the dinghy sailing clubs and then get siphoned off into the squad system long before that. So there's no point worrying about your college sailing scene because if they are in that then that's already too late for potential medal winners.
  6. Protest Panels

    The culture where you sail must be very different to where I am. There are more hearings in every class at every Olympics than there have been in every event I've ever attended put together.
  7. Does your dinghy have a name?

    Boats in the development classes usually have names in the UK, the more anonymous and characterless SMOds less so.
  8. As mentioned, its not about strength, but about warping. I always thought that a board covered in glass epoxy and carbon and thoroughly sealed couldn't possibly warp. I was wrong.
  9. Vestas 11th Hour recovery

    I think it was the 1992 AC that the potential of the net first really struck home to me. ISTR getting mark by mark updates on usenet or a bbs service, and being amazed at doing this with no live broadcast or satellite links involved.
  10. Vestas 11th Hour recovery

    Agreed. Also suspect that commercial shipping is much more visible and much more predictable in track than racing yacht.
  11. Vestas 11th Hour recovery

    No problem at all. These are fully instrumented tracked boats, continually monitored. Just like Formula One has a pit lane speed limit, impose a safety speed limit in areas where required.
  12. Old fireball proctor mast trapeze issue.

    WD 40 would not be my lubricant of choice. To say the least. Assuming its old school plastic running on metal then a PTFE spray would be a better bet.
  13. C-Class Little Cup news

    I suppose the thing that most struck me about the Cs, after attending the event at Falmouth, was that really each boat requires a substantial team. In the development dinghies I used to sail the two of you were enough to rig the boat, put it away, repair it etc and the shore facilities required were minimal. The Cs really like having 4 or 5 people at least to rig them, they require covered wind proof accomodation on the shore, its all a lot more difficult. Its much more like motorsport where at any kind of high level the team is much more than just the competitors. I'm not sure an awful lot of this goes away if you scaled down to say B class. So to me a big question is how is it where can a culture change come from to have teams of more than the actual active sailors.
  14. Old fireball proctor mast trapeze issue.

    Is it just me Steve, or are the Fireball rules rather flexible on shroud attachment height? Seems to me that he can put T terminal plates in the (enlarged) holes where the shrouds exited the mast, and replace the tube and then put a bolt through for trapeze attachments and all will be legit. I would make sure that the tube is replaced so that the bolt can't crush the mast section. http://www.fireball-international.com/media/3569/2015 - IFCR.pdf
  15. If you go to the RYA PYonline site maps page - http://www.pyonline.org.uk/map-clubs.php - you can zoom in on an area and see which clubs in the area particpate in the RYA Portsmouth Yardstick racing, which in practice means active dinghy racing clubs.
  16. A case against colored lines?

    If looks are the number one priority on your boat then go ahead, make all the lines the same colour.
  17. Can we save Portsmouth handicap racing?

    To my knowledge the RYA system has only ever had evolutionary change. I don't ever recall hearing of anything like the first boat in class only analysis that I've heard said is used in the US. I must say that sounds very eccentric to me. If anyone at US PY is reading this, your opposite number at the RYA would be Bas Edmonds. I'm sure you could have a very productive dialogue with him. If I were in charge of rejuvenating US PY? I'd talk to the RYA about their PY online system. As well as producing national level data it also gives clubs some analysis of their own data. Uploading data is usually done directly from results programs without analysis at the club side, so may not be too onerous depending on how well the classes etc are recorded. It is improving steadily. The clubs would be getting some value immediately from the analysis side. If clubs can be persuaded to upload their race data then there will start to be some fresh data that can be used alongside the legacy system, so numbers reflect what is coming from both sources. This would probably be a manual process, but not that much worse that what happens now. After a few years there would hopefully be enough data flowing through the on line system that it would dominate the data, and the old system would gradually tail off. The RYA is thinking about pulling the plug on old style returns now - they are down to single figures I think. The big question is whether there is enough handicap racing in the US for a statistically based system to work. If not its a bit trickier. We're of the opinion over here that a measurement based system is not possible at the current state of the art. The catamarans are a bit easier.
  18. Can we save Portsmouth handicap racing?

    Good luck with getting a complete rating table that is completely accurate (even if you know what accurate is) and that sailors acknowledge is fair to all. That's kinda like social justice and equality. You just have to do the best you can. The RYA Portsmouth system stores data for all the catamaran classes that are reported to it, not to mention many dozens of other classes and configurations that don't get a published number. Don't confuse what is published with what is recorded. Numbers are only published if there's enough reasonable quality data to be happy that the numbers are sufficiently representative of the active fleets out in the clubs for the numbers to be useful to the clubs. If SCHRS is used and the results not entered into the RYA database then there's a bit of a downward spiral there. Worth noting that RYA PY is simply a representation of the observed performance of the active fleets out in the clubs. This is achievable. People get very hung up on thinking (and older PY documentation is guilty of this too) that there is such a thing as a perfect performance, and handicaps should reflect the relative speed of boats if sailed perfectly. Apart from anything else, this is a statistical nonsense. You cannot really find outliers with statistics. But what you can do is look at what is really happening. The other dodgy area is when people start talking about skill levels and variations between fleets. It might become possible to evaluate that in the future with enough data, I don't know, but its pretty much impossible now. But the main thing is its better to do as good a job as you can with the possible, and produce something that works bearably, rather than aim at the stars when you can't get there. Better to drive around in a truck and actually travel than end up as a crater where the launch pad used to be.
  19. I'm pretty sure that, over here at least, if the sale of the boat doesn't make the sum of the bill you are still responsible for the balance.
  20. J70, cheating and pros

    Perhaps because I've seen *all* the inside information for a similar incident in another class and so know first hand that there can be wildly different levels of culpability. The CA clearly believes there are vastly different levels of culpability in this case too, otherwise they wouldn't be handing out a two year ban to one person and a "be more careful in future" warning to others.
  21. opti's (sic) rule

    Yeah, but that's like saying paratyphoid is no worse than typhoid...
  22. opti's (sic) rule

    Which is why any kind of competitive racing should be prohibited until the kids are old enough to say shut up Dad/Mom/Whatever you're embarassing me.
  23. opti's (sic) rule

    Precisely. And by the time the kids have reached 15 they've sailed is some of the biggest events they're ever going to do, they've sailed in as many different countries and international events as they're ever going to do, there's nothing to look forward to unless one of the tiny minority that goes to the Olympics. Been there done that for a lifetime sport at the age of 15. If I ruled the world I'd ban international events for junior and youth classes and heavily restrict travel radius even for National events.
  24. J70, cheating and pros

    So from what you are saying it sounds as if the class got in a mess because "everyone knew" the first boat (or boats) was illegal, but no-one had the balls to protest. Unsurprising then if other owners decided it couldn't be as illegal as all that. So the moral of this sad tale is to follow the rules and protest, not bitch pathetically behind the scenes or after the event.