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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

matttnz

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About matttnz

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  • Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
  • Interests
    VOR
  1. FFS-blowing your nose in the wrong way is sexist if those who wish to interpret that way decides to. It's a no win game. Kinda like Richard Dawkins arguing with a born again baptist priest. I might draw many impressions from JBCs posts but misogyny is not one of them. Accidental sexism???? Well, I suspect if it's true it's from an innate nurturing tendency towards females he cares for and if that offends you, my counter is that it's a sh1t load better than the other partner abuse extreme. Yes, everyone's an individual. You're unique (just like everyone else). But there is an inconvenient Y/X chromosome difference which results in a net genetic difference between the sexes. Men are (on average) stronger, more violent and better able to mentally 3D image (sorry-it does help map reading). Women do mentally multitask better. Otherwise F all difference. Oh: and-"go SCA" (and Alvimedica bc they've got the most kiwis left)
  2. ....that's sorta like banging my finger and blaming the hammer Well that's kinda the point: from a human factors POV a hammer has some significant problems...trying to minimise the potential for mistakes (as opposed to taking responsibility away: even negligent idiots don't want to smack themselves, but occasionally people using due care and skill do inadvertantly) NB: not wanting to start arguments up again! I'll take my coat back to the grounding thread (even though it frightens me in there)...
  3. Heard around the race village today (and don't for a second think I was chatting to someone deeply "in the know" so might be rumours of rumours of rumours: The deck is a bit more messed up than was initially thought -didn't get the impression it was unfixable though. Woulter didn't get marching orders based on just the one nav error. Much, much sentiment that the race is missing a kiwi boat. Maybe if TNZ does fall apart there'll be more $$$ available for one.
  4. The ruddy thing also dumped 220T on fuel oil and when I was down at Waihi last week, there's still those ruddy little bits of packing plastic all over the beach and a large hunk of rusting iron on the Astrolabe. Kiwis by & large don't take kindly to that sort of thing, espl for the sake of shaving a profit margin. There's also the little issue of altering the nav records after the fact (erasing the pencil records on the paper chart), if they hadn't done that they might not have found themselves spending so much time at her majesty's pleasure... Compared w admitting instantly what they had done (whilst on the rock to allow the VOR to be secure in the functionality of the boats still out racing) and as soon as everyone was safe, taking the toxics off/now planning to salvage the (worthless) wreck. jzk-the reason the human factors brigade are steadfastly disagreeing with you is the tenet there is "no blame" so that people don't hide the evidence/change the chart and speak up and admit their cock ups. Allows figuring out what happened and preventing it happening again a lot easier. It doesn't necessarily mean group hugs and "there, there, it's not your fault", this whole situation was a cock up at the end of the day. Remember-it's originated from an industry where a cock up means you die w the aircraft (which is a pretty strong disincentive to most people), yet pilots were still putting planes into the ground so obviously punishment doesn't fix this problem.
  5. I've disagreed with most everything you've said on this thread-but this shit was funny. Glad to see the thread has finally shifted toward (mostly) human factors. Though we are presently starved of information... Nice
  6. I give up. You got me
  7. waste of money to be honest. It is pretty clear what happen, isn't it? Not really. They ended up on the bricks...yes: blindingly obvious. A human cock up:yep Why a bunch of talented, respected sailors did so? Not so clear & worth a look.
  8. All the,,, commas are telling here If you get a good price you're shouting the pints.
  9. From the interview he seemed to have a grasp of human factors. It was good to hear. Wouter had retweeted well before he took the FB post down. Ah, interesting. I hadn't realized that. So leaving the tweet up might just have been an oversight, rather than an intentional act of routing around the deletion of the FB post. Or he just might not have cared either way. On the scale of things he's dealing with, I'm guessing it's pretty far down the list. The twitter feed is most likely automated. Not sure if recovering tweets is high up his priority list. It might have been legal advice I suppose, lawyers have a different impact on the whole human factors/root cause analysis thing. Or might have been VOR asking to hold off on falling on swords pending a full root cause anaylsis. Or maybe he saw/was made aware of people on this thread interpreting it as him blaming the software (though I expect wading through this is the last thing he wants to do right now). Irrelevant really at the end of the day. As someone said: what goes onto the internet... Over reliance on technology is part of it. As is, at times, mistrust of new tech by luddites (is anyone going to dispute GPS is an advance on dead reckoning? Or airbags/seatbelts in cars?) Instead of throwing the new tech out, we need to adapt/modify it to reduce the chance of this repeating. In some ways this is already happening. Grounding a VOR by such a well regarded team and in such a public way has probably done more to emphasise these zoom traps to the sailing fraternity than any education process could have.
  10. Wouter had retweeted well before he took the FB post down.
  11. That's one of the holes in the filters designed to catch problems. Specifically: You have an electronic mapping system where detail is lost in a stepwise fashion with zooming. Just 1 more zoom would have identified this problem, but it wasn't used in this case (for reasons xyz) and so the error continues to the next filter that usually catches it; but once again missed & continues. Swiss cheese model. That's my point exactly. People are going to make mistakes, regardless of the level of training or experience. It is going to happen. I don't think that it's too much to ask the chart plotter designers to consider changes that would help minimize the inevitable human mistakes. So due to human error, fatigue, ineptitude or whatever you want to call it, it is possible that forgetting to zoom in can cause dangerous accidents? Well since you can't fix the human to make him perfect then let's design some sort of system that doesn't make you have to remember to zoom in in order to provide critical data. I'm not saying the current designs are faulty or inherently dangerous. I'm not even saying that the zoom issue "caused" the accident. A human error caused the accident due to a failure to utilize technology properly. So let's change the technology to make it a little more fool proof. Yes! And then fix the other issues/the issues caused by the new fix, etc etc. Constant refinement.
  12. That's one of the holes in the filters designed to catch problems. Specifically: You have an electronic mapping system where detail is lost in a stepwise fashion with zooming. Just 1 more zoom would have identified this problem, but it wasn't used in this case (for reasons xyz) and so the error continues to the next filter that usually catches it; but once again missed & continues. Swiss cheese model.
  13. "Systems failure" isn't just whether technology failed, in fact usually quite the opposite. I wonder if this is part of why there's lines drawn on this thread. It's often a case of: "these guys had all the technology working, but yet they still did x/ignored alarms/missed y (i.e. f'd up). How can we address the system they work in (and that includes changing the work culture/environment) to prevent human factors from f'n it up again" In my area we are taught to trust our alarms and question/make sure they are lying to you before you dismiss them. Literaly told to "trust your equipment" but understand the situations where it can sabotage you. Human factors research and design accepts that humans are fallible. Design the system (technology is only a fraction of this, it's the watch changes/navigator roles, etc) to catch the human failures in time. What Nico's done in encouraging the recording is a) make this interesting for us and ensure a ROI for Volvo and his sponsors & salvage as much information to figure out why this has happened. It's obvious from early on in the vid that he was comfortable with the depth change and that it was expected (just as much that later the impact was not!). BCs initial thought might have been in his role of OBI but he's preserved a ton of info about timing etc so that if those laptops are toast some data can be salvaged.
  14. Though I can see the irony that he has this on his homepage...
  15. Expect he's seen it. Didn't take long to make it onto Wouter's twitter feed which is how I came across it.