John Drake

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About John Drake

  • Rank
    Super Anarchist

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  • Location
    Portmeirion
  • Interests
    Earth Mk II

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  1. John Drake

    Minimum Wage

    Silly boy. It isn't that we can only do one thing at a time. It is about what is worth doing and what isn't. What is productive use of resources and what is just window dressing that serves to defeat what is actually productive. Try this one on for your supreme intellect. If I tell you we can hire and train you and thus get you the skills to make a lot more money and a path to personal success OR I can hand you more money for not doing a damn thing more than you are currently doing, which path are you going to choose? You people are really funny in a pathetic sort of way.
  2. John Drake

    Minimum Wage

    did you pop your collar to type that? it's good to know that the minimum wage is why australia doesn't have an auto industry. lol. Where in that post or anywhere in this thread have I mentioned anything regarding austrialia's auto industry? You want to participate in the conversation, fine. Just don't be a wank.
  3. John Drake

    Minimum Wage

    Yes, the poor will always be with us. It is inevitable that some will always be poor. However, there are a large number of people who fall into that category, not because they do not have the wherewithal to be more, but because they don't know how to escape the trap of poverty. They do not have the opportunity to have a shot at being more. They are trapped by the stigma of poverty and the mindset of the impoverished. To help these people become more would do three very major things. First off it would save them and their offspring from the plight of poverty. Secondly it would allow them to be productive and in doing so add to and aid the economy. They become a driver rather than a burden. IMO this would be huge. Lastly by reducing the pool of workers who are unskilled, it would put upwards pressure on that which a company can pay to employ the unskilled or low skilled worker. So not only helping rescue those who just don't know or see a way forward, it would also serve to ensure higher wages for those who are not so capable. Simply raising the minimum accomplishes none of that.
  4. John Drake

    Minimum Wage

    Oh I understand. I am just pointing out what you are actually up against.
  5. John Drake

    Minimum Wage

    Warbird, a good lot of Aussies have this sort of inferiority thing going when compared to Yanks. The whole back and forth you see is an extension of that.
  6. John Drake

    Minimum Wage

    You are a very confused person. Never did I say to give money to companies. What I said was allow them to spend that money on hiring and training the under skilled instead of sending the money to Washington to waste. The kicker for those companies is 1.) good will and 2.) free productivity.
  7. John Drake

    Minimum Wage

    WI instituted a new welfare program 1 year ago. If you are able bodied you have 3 months to make a choice. Either WORK 80 hrs a month to receive reduced benefit or take skills classes , paid for, to make you marketable in the work place. ~5200 in Milwaukee alone are off the rolls as a result of this program, 10s of thousands across the state . No 6 has made this "skills training" Point in a slightly different way . Nope. Programs like Wisconsins are proven to work. No 6 wants to give money to corporations with the hope that it would trickle down. I would guess that No6 is happy with any program that brings employable skills to the formerly needy benefit recipient and benefits society and taxpayers. Sadly razr thinks I wish to see money trickle down to the under skilled. Fact is what I have suggested is exactly the opposite. That the underclass are provided a mechanism for them to learn all the skills necessary to become very successful while at the same time being paid well to do so. It is not a carrot and stick approach but rather a carrot combined with stick approach. And yes, the entire concept is to place the underclass, the under skilled and under employed in a situation that surrounds them with successful people, in a meaningful environment, with all the tools available for them to achieve their potential. One of my more liberal friends once said to me, "A nation is measured not by its prosperity of the many but how it treats the unfortunate few." The plan I have spelled out is targeted at those unfortunate few. It is designed to not just give them some glimmer of hope nor some roadmap to success. It is designed to thrust them into a whole other financial reality while they develop the skills to remain there. Not meager handouts or pathetically shallow sympathies, or promises of false hope. A new and better reality. Lift their boats and we all rise together. I'm No.6 and I approve this message.
  8. John Drake

    Minimum Wage

    You are indeed a much big schmuck than I have ever given you credit for. Enjoy that $6.00 Big Mac while fast food workers are still making minimum wage because they have minimal skills.
  9. John Drake

    Minimum Wage

    Are you really this fuking stupid? In the past the minimum has been raise a buck or two and affected maybe 5% of the workforce. This drive for $15 per hour more than doubles the existing minimum wage affecting at a minimum 42% of the workforce and more likely closer to 60% of the workforce.
  10. John Drake

    Minimum Wage

    holy shit you are dense. What is inflation? Traditionally it's too many dollars chasing too few goods. In a static system, Nanny and Happy's Crayon Chart World, if you change the cost input, many different things will happen micro and macro. some folks will lose a lot (lost job), many will gain a lot (higher income offset by lower gov't subsidies) many will lose a little (higher prices). BUT THE SYSTEM ISNT STATIC. About the only thing that is clear is that minimum wage - overall - will increase the total dollars going to people working minimum wage, even if some people lose their jobs. Given this will increase the velocity of money, it is HIGHLY likely that overall economic growth will increase. This is assuming that the minimum wage is below the level that would cause vast distortion, which is also clear as the min wage has been higher in real wage terms in the past, and the world didn't end then either. Otherwise, please explain how their is any employment of minimum wage workers - cause guess what, there has been a minimum wage for generations. Man you really are not right in the head if you think raising the wages of 42% of the workforce is not going to result in prices rising. The money to pay those higher wages must and can only come from the consumer. There is no other way, velocity of money or not. The unskilled will have a momentary windfall and then prices will catch up and they will be right back to where they started..... except for anyone who has a little saved in a bank account will see that erode.It s a sugar pill, nothing more, a placebo, it does nothing except make jackasses like yourself Laker and that idiot special ed think they did something for the poor. Reality is you didn't do squat.
  11. John Drake

    Minimum Wage

    If the law says you have to pay someone worth $10 a wage of $15 you have two choices. You can pay him the $15 and lose money or you don't hire him at all. Which would you do? As for your question. To stay in business, you must pay your employees less that they are worth to you. That is so true if you ignore the fact that other factors are in play. Like all your competition plays in the same playground and prices will stabilize to absorb the added cost. Consumers will bear the burden, but then they should. You are so right. The prices will rise then stabilize and the consumer will pay. And at the end of the day the new minimum will be exactly the same as the old minimum. You haven't achieved a good goddamn thing except fool a bunch of people that they are gonna make a whole lot more money with the same skill set and work ethic. You all who favor a rise in the minimum are doing little more than offering a sugar rush. Still shooting for that Nobel? Why hasn't the min wage proven to be inflationary or cause massive unemployment yet? Now tell me this, if all of these folks suddenly make $15+ per hour, and it is a boat load of people, how will prices not rise to match? Man you guys are something.
  12. John Drake

    Minimum Wage

    If the law says you have to pay someone worth $10 a wage of $15 you have two choices. You can pay him the $15 and lose money or you don't hire him at all. Which would you do? As for your question. To stay in business, you must pay your employees less that they are worth to you. That is so true if you ignore the fact that other factors are in play. Like all your competition plays in the same playground and prices will stabilize to absorb the added cost. Consumers will bear the burden, but then they should. You are so right. The prices will rise then stabilize and the consumer will pay. And at the end of the day the new minimum will be exactly the same as the old minimum. You haven't achieved a good goddamn thing except fool a bunch of people that they are gonna make a whole lot more money with the same skill set and work ethic. You all who favor a rise in the minimum are doing little more than offering a sugar rush.
  13. John Drake

    Minimum Wage

    The only big number you deal in is your overblown ego.
  14. John Drake

    Minimum Wage

    Ohhh! Once again the highly valuable No. 6 deals us a cliche! More nebulous handwaving about "market value" which he clearly displays with high-content analysis and an ability to read basic graphs...... Interesting you felt it necessary to alter that post you quoted.
  15. John Drake

    Minimum Wage

    O - If you want to raise the minimum wage, simply to raise it, that's damn faint justification for those you're trying to convince. In your opinion, what will raising the minimum wage accomplish? It's THAT objective, and the discussion of the efficacy of the approaches to achieve that objective that we oughta be talking about. I've never sad that minimum wage is bad - my contention is that people shouldn't expect to be able to support a family on a minimum wage job, and aside from trying to understand what you think will be achieved by doubling it, that's about all I've said on the matter. I'll keep asking 'til ya answer - your refusal or inability to answer truly demonstrates the weakness of your support for this position. I'll take a shot A minimum wage increase would increase the take home pay of people making minimum wage. How's that? But will it? Once they lose some public assistance benefits and find themselves having tax liability, do they really end up better off? Yet again, the only way to improve their standard of living is to increase their value to the marketplace.