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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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About chrisvls

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    San Francisco - SBYC
  1. Great video, gets me excited for the cup... and I say that as a Bay Area resident who unplugged once the cup wasn't going to be defended here. By the way, is Nathan Outteridge's name misspelled in the credits at 11:42? Or is that a nickname?
  2. Great stuff from many on this thread. Ship O', PointBreak, RKoch, SoCalRider . . . thanks! Looking at the longer vid, I think I can see the crew's hand/arm shaking with the jib at 1:12, 1:18, 1:31. Then, I'm not sure, but it looks like the crew standing in the main hatch starts to help at around 1:53. Too late by then. Parma's eyes are better than mine, I can't quite see the clew go forward of the stay, but the way the jib is luffing at around 0:50 looks weird, why isn't the clew further downwind? A sheet wrapped around the forestay could do that. It also then might make sense that the skipper tacks onto the unsafe tack, since that could help unwrap it. Looking forward to hearing what actually happened from the folks on the boat. Grateful they're safe, hopeful that someone is looking out for me the same way the next time I get something good and @#$!'d up.
  3. Artemis?

    Can we all agree on this? There should be a public, parade-of-boats memorial for Bart -- and for the community to show our love and support for this racer and this sport. Sign the petition here. Never done a petition before, but I feel very strongly that this is what is the right thing to do.
  4. Artemis?

    Not me, I've been working on the actual rescue story. Scooter is working on the response, and clearly thinks it inadequate. Those of you who think Nath's Dad was lying when he spoke to the herald are dreaming BTW. The facts are only getting uglier. People can speak an untruth and not be lying. Happens all the time. Moreover, there is a reason why, when you take an oath to testify, you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Those three things are all different. Yeah, and no one lies under oath. And memories are just so clear after a few years of motions and discovery. C'mon porthos. I have a much bigger question: Can anyone tell me where this video fits in to the overall rescue narrative? Not sure where this video fits in. However, if you look at 0:58 in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJwoptCzlMM&feature=youtu.be&t=2s), it appears it might be the same moment. Since it is shot from the water, you can see the Bay Bridge in the background and estimate how far they have drifted. Perhaps that helps. Thanks for the work, Mr. Clean.
  5. Artemis?

    Oops. Deleted my post by accident, was just gonna leave it, now someone has quoted it, so here it is back again . . . In case you think the facts make it clear what to do . . . let me cloud the waters for you a bit: ALL OF THE FOLLOWING THEORIES COULD BE TRUE, GIVEN THAT WE HAVE ALMOST NO UNDISPUTED FACTS. It was totally caused by the class rule. A boat failed in normal conditions, killing a crewmember. Therefore, the boats are inherently unsafe and we should change the boat. No, it is totally the Artemis design team's fault. The main beam was too weak from the start. Therefore, it's the design team's fault and we should add some kind of strength spec and strain gauges. No, the design was fine but the construction was bad. That's why the main beam failed. Therefore, it's the builder's fault and we should add some kind of independent inspection process. No, the design and construction were fine, but there was a bad repair. Something happened to the main beam on that first launch and the reinforcements failed. Therefore, it's the management team's fault for clearing the boat to go back out and we should add some kind of independent inspection process. None of the above are relevant, because it may turn out that the main beam didn't fail first and, besides, capsizes happen even without structural flaws. No, the real problem was the emergency procedures. Bart died because the post-capsize procedure was faulty. Therefore, it's the safety teams' fault and we should require divers to be ready to go at a moment's notice, or some kind of personal locator beacon. No, the safety procedures were fine, but they weren't executed correctly. Therefore, it's the on-the-water team's fault and we should require more training and testing in simulated emergency settings. No, the emergency procedures were ok, but it's the life vest's fault. Bart was trapped by his PFD. Therefore it's the equipment team's fault and we should require no PFDs or some kind of quick removal PFDs. No, the team saw him and his life vest wasn't the problem, Bart was trapped by debris. Perhaps ready-to-go divers would have been what made a difference. Therefore, we're back to it's the safety teams' fault and we should require divers to be ready to go at a moment's notice. No, it was the speed of the crash that was the problem. Bart was injured / knocked unconscious / wedged into entrapment by the sheer velocities involved. Therefore, boats at this speed are inherently unsafe and we should change boats. No, it's Larry Ellison's and Russell Coutt's fault, because the need for turning this into a TV sport brought us to an uncharted design space. Therefore we should change the boats, format, and governance. Some combination of these may turn out right. But debating the fine points of how to implement the one of these conclusions -- that's premature. Normally, I prefer sailing commentary to be just immature, they way we all like it
  6. Artemis?

    Until more facts come out, there's no way to know the cause. Without knowing the cause, there's no way to choose a remedy. All this discussion about the rules / class / Deed of Gift are ten steps ahead of where we are right now. For all we know, it's the equivalent of debating change-of-AIS rules based on the Aegean loss. Even the main beam failure theory has now been disputed by none other than its source. (See Nathan O's statement today.)
  7. Artemis?

    Is there any word of a memorial parade of boats? It would be fantastic for the community to have an opportunity to show their support on the water.
  8. Artemis?

    Deepest condolences and sympathies to Bart's family and especially teammates. I have come back to the dock with one fewer than I left with. It is a hard thing to sit with and I had it much easier than this team does now. Also, for those thinking now would be the time to editorialize. I would hope that you understand that now is not the time, out of respect. But, if being right is more important than being respectful, consider that you are probably not right. We know 5 percent of the relevant facts. Consider your predecessors: The people editorializing about which freighter ran over the Aegean and the "rogue wave" that hit Low Speed Chase. Time for careful analysis will come after we have the facts from a careful investigation. That time is not now. Safe travels, Bart.