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  1. Spoonie

    Sun Fast 3300

    Time to spend some more time in dinghy's shaggy
  2. Spoonie

    Why skippers fail in PHRF, it's not the boat

    With all due respect, perhaps he should, but I definitely don't agree with the majority of your advice. I'm sorry, I don't normally down vote, but I had to, to counter the sea of approvals. Whether it's OD or Handicap, make no mistake it's your performance against the rest of the fleet that matters. It's time against the clock *and* the fleet. You really can't ignore that. With that in mind, Shenanigans that screw you over in handicap races screw you over in OD racing and vice versa. Things that allow you to win in handicap racing, allow you to win in OD and versa. Around the cans, the most important move you will make in any race (OD or handicap), is to be on the correct side of the first shift relative to the fleet, with clear air and ability to tack. It is the one and only time you have leverage over the whole fleet. From then on, it's all about making sure you are in the right position, relative to the fleet, to take advantage of the next shift. You are always trying to be between the fleet, the next shift, and the next mark. If you're on your own, it's just about the next shift and the next mark. Certainly starting on port tack, then checking in 5 mins later to see where the fleet is a sure way to be wrong probably 50% of the time at the one time you could be putting significant time (real or virtual) into the whole fleet. Also, if the fleet is diverse, then there's a high probability that at least some of them are sailing in very different breeze to you regardless. Sailing your boat to its maximum performance speed wise is the barrier to entry to the podium in any race, but it's only 1/3rd of the picture. With the right leverage, a slow boat that is in phase will beat a faster boat that's out of phase nearly every time. Why is this relative to the fleet bit important? because sailing is a game of risk. Whether OD or handicap, the boat that plays that game the best *compared to the rest of the fleet* generally wins. So that sometimes mean forgoing what may be a more optimal course, because it's only optimal if you're right. Speed, Strength, Smarts: The golden triangle. Speed, You have to be get the maximum potential speed out of your boat (with some exceptions) at all times. Strength, you need to have more capability (boat handling, endurance, etc...) than the next guy. Smarts, your strategy and tactics need to be better than the next guy. If you lack any one of those 3, then you need a double handling of the other two. For what it's worth, here are my tips: 1) We've established speed is a given. Faster boats always have the advantage. It sucks being a slower boat in a handicap fleet because all things being equal, they will be 2nd to the shifts and rolled on downwind legs. The closer boats are in handicap and speed, the fairer the results will likely be. In an OD fleet a lack of speed is death 2) Always know where the fleet is, and I mean always. You need to know how you're doing in your own little patch, and relative to your own fleet. going fast in the wrong direction compared to everyone else is not fast. Waiting for 5 mins is death. at 6 knots, 5 mins in the wrong direction will put you 100m behind in 5 deg shift. 33sec lost right there. more than Double that in a 10 deg shift. Do that off the start and get a 10deg shift against you, you will have just lost 1min against *the whole fleet*. It doesn't matter if it's handicap or OD, you need to do a lot to make that up. 3) Always know where you're going with respect to the next mark. See above. That mostly means being to the left of the mark when the breeze is going left, and to the right when the breeze is going right. It also keeps you in check w.r.t the fleet. The fleet will mostly just follow who they *think* is right. Not who actually is. 4) clean air and room to move as you need to wins races. Sometimes you need to sacrifice either speed, or opportunity to maintain that. There's no point getting getting the most out of a shift or whatever to be stuck with someone on your hip. Balance that risk (shenanigans vs, opportunity) and think ahead. 5) To perhaps clarify an earlier comment from someone, team work is key. The best crew is the one that works together well. they have a secret language and things magically happen without much discussion. They don't need to be rockstars to do that, just good team people. The best skippers don't bark orders, they give their team room to execute and learn. 6) practice. All truisms regardless of OD or handicap. In short, I first heard this idea that Handicap racing was somehow different last year. I was taken by surprise frankly, because I really struggle to see any difference. Control what you can control, which is your position between the fleet and the next mark. Ignore the rest, never take the foot off the gas. *shrug*
  3. Spoonie

    boy is this girl in for a surprise..

    I’m not sure that’s true. Virtual conferences in various fields do exist. But IMHO, they suck... if you really want to meet and exchange ideas, it is very hard to beat a face to face conversation.
  4. Spoonie

    boy is this girl in for a surprise..

    For sure, but it’s like any of the carbon based industries. Either a transition to carbon neutrality is needed, or a orderly exit of the industry ala Germany’s shutdown of the coal industry. I suspect it will be a long time before air travel is displaced by technology in business. Face to face conversation is still the best form of communication in many settings. Ethical organisations though is becoming a thing and certainly limiting travel may be part of that. I would suggest leisure travel is more an indication of economic circumstances than the price of the flight. Eg the Aus dollar makes it twice as expensive to say travel to the states or Europe than it did 10 years ago.
  5. In short, a lot. There a lot of standing jokes about it. How do you pick a dentist in the bunch, how do you pick the masters riders on the track etc... etc... a bike shop that supported me for a long time would always keep one $20k bike in the floor. They helped inflate overall sales and they would always sell a couple a year.
  6. Spoonie

    suck my balls

    Oh I don't know, I've had on water and off water jurors come to me unprompted and "explain" decisions. Especially where the jury were split in the decision, and where I was a junior. One was a mechanical movement thing where the on water guys couldn't agree if the leech movement was because of the body movement, or to action with respect to the waves etc... but all agreed it was borderline, gave me the benefit of the doubt, then came to me after the race to discuss. In hindsight the response here was kind of dodgy in that my competitor then specifically asked the OWJ to review his downwind action to which they obliged. Teams and Match racing as a junior I often had IOWJ's come to us post race to explain scenarios. you avoided penalty because of this, or got a penalty because of that. In effect it was coaching because in a lot of those cases, explaining the scenario gave you better insight to applying a particular tactic. I do agree that in an off water scenario, any cautions to be had should be done during the protest hearing summary. The other competitor should be privy to such caution as it may influence their decision to appeal. Any followup to this independently should not be in contrary to this. If you let someone off in the room, then outside the room caution them, then that is unfair to both parties.
  7. Spoonie

    Catamaran Capsize Kills 3 off Newcastle

    So like, just a repeat of this thread then
  8. Spoonie

    Catamaran Capsize Kills 3 off Newcastle

    Like I said, a practical test would be to take a laser out, cleat the main off and invert it. Now partially right it each side. Having spent many years righting lasers, I can assure you the act of righting a laser with any velocity causes it to move forward. An extreme example perhaps, but an example none the less. I'm a little baffled though why there seems to be a presumption sails stop acting like sails just because they're in the water. Anyway, for my part, the concept is really quite simple. Take a wing, make fluid flow over it with the right AOA. inverted or right way up, the only that matters are the conditions under which you make fluid flow over it at the right AOA. Rocking a boat side to side would create those conditions inverted in the same way it does right way up. Just about every dinghy sailor in existence will have experienced those effects whether they realised it or not.
  9. Spoonie

    Catamaran Capsize Kills 3 off Newcastle

    Difference in motion for sure. The simplest explanation is Harry and his wetter than expected proa were at just different stations in the wave. Certainly the cat is going to have more inertia, so will act like an anchor of sorts to the liferaft regardless. Think a Yo Yo for a minute... In Harry's case, I'm guessing the current and wind were at opposites. This would create the effect of the raft sitting parallel to the waves, and potentially a sea short and steep enough to create the necessary tilting motion. I feel like I'm taking more than just an educated guess here, but it is just an educated guess.
  10. Spoonie

    Catamaran Capsize Kills 3 off Newcastle

    What do you think is happening for there to be positive tension in those sheets? Upright, in no or little wind: adjust your sales to about mid reach and rock the boat. You can propel it in any direction you like without any sail adjustment. Ever watched a star race? Pumping is legal. Watch them rock those boats downwind. They’re not doing that for their health. upright or inverted, as soon as their is fluid flow over the sail plan the sails are generating lift. If there is tension in the sheets then their is likely flow over the sails. But the boat has to be rocking in a way to create flow over the sails. Conceivably that could be sculling at some angle into a wave train. a cat side on to the waves is the most conceivable example. The rig of A tilted cat with one hull on the peak and other in the trough is acting against the motion of fluid in that wave. Most cats can’t let their mains past about a mid reach point due to the set back shrouds. The right motion could easily (perceivably) force the main against those shrouds. Let’s not forget the jib which is probably still wrapped tight on a winch. if you want a practical experiment, take a laser out, sheet and cleat the main on and invert it. Now rock it inverted +/- 30 deg or so. See what happens... in fact just capsize it and right it. Dinghys tend to propel forward and into the wind when you right them. Why would a tilting cat be any different? why do you think most yachts lose their rigs when they invert or roll? The hydrodynamic forces on rigs are huge (as much as 784 times). Those forces have to go somewhere. There are two conditions you need 1) the rig has to be moving relative to the motion of fluid. A wide cat side on to a short sea could caues it. 2) the rig configuration needs to generate lift as a result of that flow, in excess of the drag of an upturned boat. A jib still tight on a winch might be enough. So on the whole, yes I believe it is possible a rocking inverted boat with its rig intact could propel a boat forward. That potentially includes at some angle, let’s call it 45deg, into an oncoming swell. Provided the rocking motion and rig configuration was right to do so.
  11. Spoonie

    Catamaran Capsize Kills 3 off Newcastle

    I’m not sure this is worth responding to but if you really needed to yes you could. Is it practical to? No, but I’m sure it’s been done for salvage purposes to some degree. As to sheets, I would be almost certain most bigger boats would capsize with their sheets locked off (or the jib at least). If not locked off, tangled or caught in the mayhem. Having the rig stay in one piece in the inversion process is another thing. You’re making this more complicated than it needs to be. The fact is any foil rocked in any medium creates lift. On an inverted sailboat, any rocking that causes those sails to “fill” will propel the boat forward by some degree. Yes even a baggy kite. A wide cat side on to the waves will cause the rig to move through the water quite substantially. Without any sails, The mast alone might be enough to cause harry’s Real world practical experience on the matter. Especially on a multi which tend to have wing masts. For practical purposes, that’s as complicated as you need to make it. If your boat tips you over the side unexpectedly in the big blue, expect not to be able to go swimming after it. as Fiji pointed out, my respects go to the souls impacted in this particular event.
  12. Spoonie

    Catamaran Capsize Kills 3 off Newcastle

    It’s really not. If it’s too complicated to explain or generalise, then you don’t understand it well enough to explain. everyone here should understand how sails work in air. Water is just really dense air with most of the gas squeezed out. If the boat tips over with the rig intact, sails trimmed on, and/or a wing mast, it wouldn’t take much action to propel the boat forward. In fact it would take less than the same motion in air. Just as right side up, your trim and angle affects the force, so too upside down. That force may or may not be enough to overcome other factors but it’s there. It’s not limited to cats either. Anyone who has ever stood on the centreboard of a dinghy is sure to have experienced it. if the rig is not intact, then it is more likely to drag behind and act like an anchor.
  13. Spoonie

    Catamaran Capsize Kills 3 off Newcastle

    Physics Jim... A sea anchor isn’t a BFO wing. What happens when you rock an upright boat in no wind with the sails on? It propels forward. Same thing with higher density. You would only need a little movement to get a bigger effect.
  14. Oh god, where to start. The final reach of my first major regatta win as crew. I was 13 QLD Cobra Catamaran states. Blowing a gale on the wire with the jib in hand, my job was to keep the tip of the leeward bow hovering +/1 an inch or so over the top of the water. If it got too high, my skipper would subtly ask "is the jib on?"" Planing to a thud in a sabot regatta (QLD selection trials?) in '93 in waterloo bay because of the giant jelly fish. (seriously, they were huge!) My first major laser regatta win. QLD radial states '97 I think. Went into the last race with a race spare, but only 2nd's to my name. Got the gun on the last race to take the championship. Not my first cube but my first win. My 2nd QLD title I picked up with a more perfect win record, but was less memorable for some reason. '97 radial worlds. 11 wide and 6 or 7 deep at a gybe mark. The presentation at those worlds and being surrounded by military police with AK's after everyone started jumping in the pool. Loosing the '98 youth nationals and selection trials. The frustration of what was really several years campaigning to ultimately lose because I simply didn't have the right body mass. Buying the yacht. Every bill that comes for the yacht. Getting my daughter out on the boat. Having one of her first words be "boat" The list goes on. But then I have an odd memory. For instance, I can tell you that in february or march of '98, I missed a shift in the RQYS club race because I misread a cloud pattern out on the left side of the course. I think I recovered to third but brad taylor and brand anderson walked away. But I forgot to buy a cake for my wife's birthday yesterday.
  15. Spoonie

    Brisbane to Gladstone 2019

    From what mum was saying, the yacht club has gone into receivership. PCSC is fine, but no idea who owns the building. GYC and PCSC were two related, but legally separated entities. I remember dad saying they had some serious trouble a while back and worked hard to keep it in the black. Not sure if that was when he was commodore or not but if so that was a while back. Neither I, mum or dad are members anymore so someone might have a few more facts.