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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Francis Vaughan

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About Francis Vaughan

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  1. Clearly Sir Ben then.
  2. Will Oxley would be perfect. But he might feel he has done his time. But no doubt, he ticks pretty much every box. You would have to imagine that he has been the recipient of more than a few phone calls by now.
  3. Adrienne would be nice, especially given her history with the VOR, but I really doubt she would be up for it now. I'm really hoping it is Libby Greenhalgh. She is one of the few that could step onto the boat and be up to speed right away.
  4. Not wishing to get into an extended argument, but there is a big difference between meeting the letter of the law/regulations and answering an enquiry when there has been a fatality. The problem the VOR would face is that they previously mandated AIS. The current VOR rules still mandate AIS. They would not be explaining how they still met the letter of the law. They would be explaining the manner in which they decided that what was once a mandatory safety requirement, as judged by them, was no longer a mandatory safety requirement, and why this change of designation was based not upon a careful review of the safety of the race, but upon a simple commercial decision designed to maintain control of information. There is no useful way out of this. A marine accident enquiry is not going to just look at the regulations and say - "that's OK, off you go". Once there has been a fatality things get very very messy. And the VOR and MT would have to endure the public nature of the accident. The court of public opinion would not judge them kindly. Which is why it is quite possible such a situation may result in the Volvo deciding the VOR was over. A company with a major reputation for safety is not going to endure the spectacle of a fatality occurring because it decided to disable a once mandatory safety system for no better reason than to deny fans information.
  5. I think that the chances of the VOR having them turn the AIS off simply to prevent access by some of the fans is zero. COLREGS or not, no AIS is a significant safety issue, and the risk of an at sea collision because a large ship can't see a VOR boat is not zero. If such a collision did happen the inquiry and finger pointing would be at best "career limiting" for MT and may well sink the VOR as a race. Imagine facing up to a marine accident enquiry and answering the question about why the AIS was turned off. Boats were fitted with them, in previous races use was mandatory - so explain why it was so before, and not now? You can point to COLREGS all you like, MT's career would be over, and the VOR may well never run again.
  6. Hmmm, not such a wild idea. Even the threat of it might be enough to force the VOR's hand. I find it absolutely incredible that they intend persisting with the insane idea of 3 hour updates this round. I thought MT was listening to the fans at least a tiny bit. There is no reason at all to limit the updates this way. The boats are not able to receive outside information, so it advantages them none, and all it does is annoy the fan base. We could start a kickstarter project, or similar. Money back if the VOR caves in.
  7. I was really just noting how in all the conversation about additions and possibilities the numbers seemed to have got lost. I don't doubt there will be more announcements.
  8. One notes that if Capey is part of Brunel, plus Pete Burling, they have listed 8 males, and zero females. PB did note that he may not do every leg, and having a bit of slack in the crew roster is a good thing. But the question of women in the team is still unaddressed.
  9. Pretty cool that PB is joining the race. I think there is a lot of sentiment that it would be great if Bouwe did finally manage to win one. So far ever the bridesmaid. I can't see him signing on for another one after this. I'm totally torn about who to support. Almost every team is worthy of support, and I would hesitate to pick a winner. I think the fat lady will be waiting a long time for her call.
  10. Nobody gains anything by winning this race except a bit of a bit of sponsor glory (which isn't to be sneezed at.) But these races are the first time the boats have come together. Tactically, learning everything you can sailing in the fleet has to be top priority. Minimally you have a chance to see how your setups are working against the other boats. Which of course cuts both ways. But you would want to be pretty confident about how good you were to be sandbagging. You stifle your own ability to learn. Some teams are going to be learning fast, as the latecomers are still getting to grips with the boat and their crew. There are times when every team will want to push as hard as they can, as they will be learning when they do. And there will be other times when it makes more sense to look about them, and pace things accordingly, and learn other things. I'm sure that winning is something everyone wants, and they will all be in race mode. But at this early stage, I would hope that the broader picture would dominate thinking.
  11. The VO65 has, AFAIK load cells on the chain plates and maybe forestay. No idea about backstay. Since the backstays have jumpers, it gets quite messy to work out what the precise loads on the mast are. It was indicated that they don't have the level of instrumentation that was common on the VO70. The problem with mast tube failures is that you don't really get a good idea of where the anomalous loads are just by looking at rig tensions. You can get an indication that the dynamic loads are getting higher as you drive the boat, but you can't really have any sort of absolute information. DFRT's mast failed due to deliberately applied loads bending the mast. A load cell at the mast step might have helped, but they really knew what they were doing, and had been warned they were outside the design regime for the mast. So they were not blind to what they were doing. Indeed, they knew the static strain the mast was under, as they had deliberately acted to put it there. The failure of the mast track bonding was predictable with that strain, and the failure of the mast tube not a huge step further. But carbon is a messy beast to predict and short of high tech tricks like bonding strain gauge wires into the layup of the mast, knowing exactly what was happening would have been difficult. But SS knew the tube had not been designed for that loading. And they told DFRT. All they get on the boat when driving are a set of warning lights that tell the helmsman they hit the red zone. Little more than a "please back off" warning. Trouble with those is they become a target, and a helmsman might decide to drive hard enough to just have the lights flickering on. If you think about the loads on the rig during slamming there is a lot going on. There are resonant modes in the rig, and these can act to create ridiculous peak loads when the entire boat slams Predicting just what is going on from simple rig tension would need a medium sized supercomputer to run the model, and it would probably still get it wrong. Throwing a few dozen load cells at the rig might help. But even then, you can't stop deliberate misuse. The regime of "we have got away with it so far, so we should be OK to keep doing it" is a common problem. It is what resulted in the loss of two Space Shuttles, and a host of other catastrophes. This is where real experience come in.
  12. I am far from the best person to ask or trust an answer from. As already pointed out above, polars from a sail manufacturer are at best a first round approximation. But perhaps the most important part that the sail maker can't provide really useful guidance on are the cross-overs. There is no substitute for working these out on the boat. The problem with rig loads is that you aren't worried about static loads. Sure, you could get a simple approximation to much of the rig load from the sail design. That already forms part of the sail's design. But the dynamic loads are way out of the control of the sail designer. That is where judgement and the instrumentation of the rig comes in. All of these boats carry rig tension instrumentation, that is intended to provide guidance. But even then it can only tell you that the last slam took you into the red zone. Judgement is needed to decide whether the next slam is going to take your rig past its limit.
  13. You need to remember that these failures were boats, not crew. Pirates were not exactly whole either. The had an unscheduled stopover to fix the keel ram - which resulted in the keel being locked in the centre. The ABN boats admitted they kept their breakages secret, but that they did have a host of keel issues as well. Compared to the VO70's (especially these first gen VO70s) the VO65 is a truck. The only way they break is if you do the breaking. There is no reason to think that they will break any easier this time around than last time. The VO65 has shifted the emphasis firmly onto the crew, and how well they perform. For better or worse the boat isn't what will limit a leg.
  14. This is a new thing?
  15. OK, Wow!. So, how do they manage leg 0 as a component of the race proper I wonder? A dispensation from the VOR obviously, but given how much the VOR are spruking leg 0 as a critical prelude, I wonder how they will spin this. You do really need to give a bit more of a hint than just "grapevine." (pretty please...) I guess we all felt that leaving boat 8 in the dock was never going to be a good look. But this isn't just 11th hour stuff, this is Minutes to Midnight.