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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

      After fifteen years of volunteer moderation at SA, I will no longer be part of the moderation team. The decision to step aside is mine, and has been some time in the works but we did not wish to announce it in advance for a number of reasons. It's been fun, but I need my time back for other purposes now. The Underdawg admin account will not be monitored until further notice, as I will be relinquishing control of it along with my administrative privileges. Zapata will continue on as a moderator, and any concerns or issues can be directed to that account or to the Editor until further notice. Anyone interested in helping moderate the forums should reach out to Scot by sending a PM to the Editor account. Please note that I am not leaving the community, I am merely stepping aside from Admin responsibilities and privileges on the site.

Francis Vaughan

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  1. Remember the "Flintstone generation"? Last time I watched everything on the Internet, and all the races are still up. Brilliant viewing. Now there is an AC YouTube channel that contains 2 minute race highlights only, and the occasional geoblocked longer race. They do have all the press conferences up, which can sometimes be interesting. But it is actually not legally possible to watch all the races here. Insane. Anyway, moaning about the AC isn't really the point here, except to note how not to do it, and hope/assume the VOR don't do anything so stupid. Not that the VOR don't need to lift their game, but it seems they understand that. Just hoping we get something with more meat and not just more sanitised corporatised fluff with little more than boats slamming to stupid big hair rock music tracks.
  2. Comparisons with this AC isn't useful. It is difficult to fathom what the heck is going in on RC's mind, but the manner in which they have deliberately set out to alienate and reduce their viewership worldwide is unprecedented. Any team sponsor should be livid about this. Pumping many millions into a team, only to have the worldwide public be required to pay for the privilege of viewing sponsor's logos on boats, is not a good way to sell ROI for sponsors. Of course, if it was the old school AC, where it was just about billionaires trying to prove who has the biggest dick, it wouldn't matter. But that wasn't supposed to be RC's vision was it?
  3. I posted a link to a YouTube copy of the Argument Sketch previously for the same reason. This is the travel agent sketch.
  4. Given the number of people they shoe-horn into a clipper boat, I don't see them ever overlapping. I do think a lot of us would love to see some sort of Corinthian spirit return, and a race that is including developing younger sailors (and probably paying them close to sod all) does have a bit of that. But you are never going to get a berth on a boat unless you are on your way to being a serious player in international competition. A repeat of the ABN-Amro 2 team effort is what I would like to see, and more than one team doing it. But retaining a few fully pro teams in the mix is also a good thing, it means there is never any question that the development teams are not competing at 100% against the best. When they do well, it is dong well against top ranked sailors and not just relative to other development teams.
  5. So they have announced a two year cycle, which is remarkably soon after the previous unveil when MT said it was a possibility. But making a round Antarctica sprint a leg? I wonder if that gets them off the hook for RTW if the other legs don't connect back to the origin. MT must feel like he is dodging between events in Bermuda in order to find a quiet slot to make any announcements at all.
  6. As I wrote earlier, it was pretty obvious from the moment MT alluded to the team that there was going to be some Volvo money involved. What is perhaps more worrying is that his words implied that this was likely the last team that would be announced. No change whatsoever from GermanOceanRacing on their web site or Facebook. One of the invisible (except to Google) pages says 2020-2021 race anyway. Anyone free in October for a bit of an adventure?
  7. The VOR have not put designs out to tender in the past. They privately asked for suggestions for the last race's boat, and Farr pitched the VO65. This time they seem to have simply decided straight up to ask VPLP. They are a private company. They can choose whoever the hell they like. This tender is genuinely a new thing for them. If they had already selected the winner, they would have announced them, same as they announced the winner for the ocean racing boat. That they didn't announce that VPLP was designing both boats is interesting - it suggests that VPLP declined. I'm can't imagine that the VOR office hadn't ensured there was enough interest ahead of time that they wouldn't be getting at least one solid proposal, otherwise it would look somewhat silly. But, consider what an opportunity this tender is. The AC has shown off the possibilities. There are going to be lots of designers who think - "heck, I'd like to design one of those" - and who probably think that they could do a better job. And here is a race with a slab of money offering a close to zero risk chance of paying you to design your dream boat, and to build a race series around it. That is a once in a career chance. Of course there will be interest, possibly lots of interest. But, like I alluded to above, there are six design teams who have more experience with high end foiling cats and their control systems than anyone else. Sadly they have been a tad busy recently. This week sees most of them with the first bit of spare time they have had for years. Two of them are still a little bit focussed on the main game. Even if it isn't the AC teams proper that will want to pitch a design, the designers on those teams will probably all be itching to give it a go. Some of them possibly have no other jobs on the table. The timing of the tender could really not have been worse.
  8. I'm not in the least bit surprised. The deadline was very tight, and for a very important set of possible designers impossible. Ring, ring: "Hello, Mark here, how can I help you" "Oh, you'd like to submit a cat design, that's great! Do you have much experience?" "You do! Excellent! How much?" "Wow! You are doing really well. Been watching on TV." "So, you think you can design us one too?" "Brilliant!" "So what it is the problem?" "Yeah, I guess you might be a bit busy, but you have designed the boat haven't you? Should have lots of time now" "No need for language like that." "Extension? I guess. It isn't as if we are in a hurry." "OK, will see what I can do." "Brilliant, best of luck!" "Bye, say Hi to RC for me." "..... there is absolutely no call for that sort of language."
  9. Well it would be brilliant to see Frank Cammas suddenly announce a team, now that he has time on his hands. Somehow I doubt the VOR is very high on his list. But one can hope. Great pity to see him shunted out of the AC, but I don't doubt he will be back.
  10. Bad luck. I thought that was Maître Coq. Wrong race. Nothing like some puerile humour to wile away the time.
  11. I'm trying to underline the point that you cannot simply say "Dongfeng did xxx". Dong Feng means "East Wind". Heck, the Chinese have a family of ICBMs called Dongfeng. We are discussing the who and why of sponsorship of Dongfeng Race Team. Just saying "Dongfeng" when you are talking about up to four different entities makes it impossible to communicate sensibly. Last race the sponsor was Dongfeng Commercial Vehicles. Now it is Dongfeng Motor Corporation. These are separate corporate entities, with the former only having adopted the new name recently. It isn't even clear what the boat will be called. But "East Wind" isn't a bad name. The boats have typically not taken the name of the sponsor until very recently, and not universally.
  12. As noted above, you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension. Last time I looked, HK was a Chinese province. The UK have not run it in decades. Team Sun Hung Kai/Scallywag are from HK. Geely is a Chinese company. They own Volvo Cars. They own 50% of the VOR. Volvo AB own the other half of the VOR. There is no such company as Dongfeng. Dongfeng Motor Corporation are a Chinese government owned company. Amongst all their interests, subsidiaries, and joint ventures they created a joint venture with Nissan that made and sold trucks under the UD brand. Later Volvo AB bought Nissan's 45% stake in UD, and the company was renamed to Dongfeng Commercial Vehicles. Dongfeng Motor Corporation have similar joint ventures with Peugeot-Citroën, Renault, Kia, Honda and Nissan. The relationship Volvo AB have with Dongfeng Motor Corporation is identical to the relationship they have with these others. They are joint venture partners in various enterprises. Last race, Dongfeng Commercial Vehicles (the joint venture company formally known as UD) 45% owned by Volvo AB sponsored a team. This race, the Chinese government owned company Dongfeng Motor Corporation is sponsoring a team. Volvo AB own no part of Dongfeng Motor Corporation. The sponsorship money will come from the Chinese government owned company.
  13. What is perhaps interesting is that sponsorship by Dongfeng Motor Corporation does now seem to go at odds with the previous avoidance of car makers other than Volvo as sponsors. As I noted above, the VOR is owned by an entity that is itself 50/50 owned by Volvo AB and Volvo Cars. Volvo Cars is 100% owned by Geely (who bought it from Ford.). Geely make their own cars as well as Volvos, also own London Taxi Cabs, and last week they bought Lotus. But Dongfeng also make many cars, and have many joint ventures with many other well known car manufacturers. Geely and Dongfeng are head to head competitors. Dongfeng is 100% owned by the Chinese government. Geely is listed on the HK stock exchange. Dongfeng is about 20 times the size of Geely. Geely must feel like Godzilla just joined the party. No doubt, the Chinese are serious about the VOR.
  14. Volvo own no part of Dongfeng Motor Corporation. Volvo Truck (a subsidiary of Volvo AB) own 45% of the joint venture Dongfeng Commercial Vehicles. The team sponsor is now Dongfeng Motor Corporation, not Dongfeng Commercial Vehicles. Dongfeng Motor Corporation is a very big fish. It could buy Volvo AB with pocket change. Volvo have never purchased, and do not have any stakeholding in Dongfeng Motor Corporation. They agreed to buy out Nissan's part of an already existing joint venture in building trucks, which was renamed Dongfeng Commercial Vehicles. Tracking this is messy, and it makes no sense to talk about "Dongfeng". There is no such individual entity. The change of team sponsor from Dongfeng Commercial Vehicles to Dongfeng Motor Corporation is a big deal, and is much bigger than the small change in name suggests. Don't forget that the VOR is 50/50 owned by Volvo AB and Volvo Cars. Volvo Cars is fully owned by Geely, and has no connection with Volvo AB other than cooperation over branding and such ventures as the VOR. B2B is business to business.
  15. Yes. Control, and simple reality. Volvo have no control of the parent group. They have exactly zero say in how any other part of the group is run, or any share of the profits. If you take a part share in a yacht, you don't get a share of the other partner's houses or wives, or any say in what they do. Not just Volvo partnering with Dong Feng. Renault has a 50/50 joint venture with Dong Feng worth even more than the Volvo Dong Feng one. Add to that, Dongfeng Peugeot-Citroën, (also 50/50), however in this case Dong Feng do have some control in the parent, because they separately purchased 14% of PSA Peugeot Citroën - but that required actual spending of real money to buy shares, and had nothing to do with the joint venture. And it goes on. Joint ventures with Kia, Honda and Nissan. Most of these joint ventures are producing of the order of 250,000 cars a year each for sale in China. The joint venture with Volvo is tiny in comparison with the overall enterprise. Dong Feng is a very big player. Joint ventures and external investment such as this is very common across many industries, and often brings together direct competitors. In the Oil industry it is very common for companies to farm-in on exploration of production of various fields. The money involved can be considerable. Or take the United Launch Alliance, a joint venture of Lockheed Martin and Boeing. Two fierce competitors. The idea that being a member of the ULA gives Lockheed Martin any say or influence on Boeing's operations is fanciful. Take DongFeng's involvement for exactly what SS said. The VOR has gone B2B. Volvo and the VOR used the last race as a way of pitching the VOR as having a very good ROI for a large Chinese B2B player, and the parent group were sufficiently impressed with the success that they took over the role of sponsor from their subsidiary and now wish to promote the entire group via the investment, not just the subsidiary that they have a 55% share of.