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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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About fraser@guthries.co.nz

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  1. Is it true the the class has effective tried to get rid of Kirby by changing the design sufficently to claim it is no longer Mr. Kirby's design. If that is so, it would not be an honourable course of action in my opinion.
  2. Having read a little more on the subject I support Bruce Kirby’s position. I am not sure of the legal process but I fail to see at what point the design passed from Mr. Kirby’s hands and into the public domain or the single ownership of one party. It is clear that parties lost the rights through bankruptcy but that does not mean others gained those right. You can be completely sure that if you buy a Shaw you are not getting the design rights, so I do not see how the act of buying a Laser has design rights attached to it. Therefore I do not see how the Class Association can claim anything by virtue of sailing the design and organizing racing. While there have been a number of tricky deals done by tricky people I believe the Spencer’s have behaved honorably as has Mr. Kirby. I believe the grass roots Laser sailors should be supporting Mr. Kirby by sending a clear message to the builders that they expect a boat free of legal disputes.
  3. I am amazed at how sensitive the Laser community is to anyone who does not go “hail to the mighty Laser”. All right, defense of their boat and the sport is great but they seem to see any new boat as a threat – why when they are so dominant. We all know that the Laser is here to stay – for now – but eventually a new class will supersede it. When that will happen nobody knows, but it will happen.
  4. These issues are in hand and have been carefully worked through. One interesting point is because I commissioned Rob to design the boat we share the copyright and IP under law. Not that it makes any real difference in practical terms. I am fully commited to my team and I am delighted with the way they worked together on this project. They have been professional in every respect. As for anyone else embarking on a dinghy development - I would say there is a lot more to it than you think!! if you start today you can expect to be in production in 2 years time (ask Hoot about it).
  5. My skateboarding son was a top footballer (great balance and speed) and he dropped that also. The young must have cool in my experience. This discussion should be about "how do we use the web to promote sailing". We need to stop posting crash scene videos (Cat and Moth) attract women to the sport and look at what the surf cothing companies have done. Companies like Zhik are trying hard - I support them, but we need to do more. We need a World Series supported by a major company and get into the mainstream media and web. Inject cool at every opportunity and stop looking backwards.
  6. The overwhelming impression I get is that, especially young people, feel stuck with the Laser because there is not an alternative. In a generation used to ever changing improvement young people almost apologies for sailing such an old boat and lament the fact that no viable alternative exists. The truth is that the Laser is not cool – like say Kites or Surfing, and this is resulting in the young leaving the sport after Opti's and in most cases never returning. This happened with both of my sons - one is a top skateboarder now
  7. The Shaw 4 in no way threatens the Laser (there is only one of them), but it is my opinion that the Laser world is in a mess. Do you think is it not a mess, do you think it is "business as usual"? It cannot remember the last time I heard someone say something positive about the Laser, other than there are lots (200,000) of them. Comments about its designer like "It seems that Bruce Kirby has at last applied a blow torch" refering to the builder does not sound like a happy working relationship dedicate to the future of the class to me.
  8. What a mess!!! www.shaw4.org/blog.aspx