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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Firefly-DC

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About Firefly-DC

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  • Birthday 03/01/1962

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    Beverly MA

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  1. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    It can be a little chilly in early may in New England in a river fed by mountain snow runoff. for that reason the June date might be more popular.
  2. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    you could do this one instead. already established and plenty of sunfish https://www.facebook.com/ConnecticutRiverDinghyDistanceRace/
  3. ORR in Long Island

    What type of boat do you sail? How much do you spend each year in entry fees? What is your annual budget?
  4. ORR in Long Island

    I did attend the MBSA meeting last night and sat through the 2 hour presentation and Q&A session with ORA. I would recommend if you have an opportunity to go to one of their talks like this that you attend with an open mind, so thank you to MBSA for having them come in and talk and explain ORR-EZ. First, neither Mr. Teeters nor Mr. Johnson is overselling the capabilities of ORR-EZ. Their process for developing the initial VPP is, I believe, technically sound. Their process will likely accurately predict the difference in performance between similar boats; say a J-24, Kirby 25 and a Merit 25. MBSA appears to be going to a 6 number system that accounts for high, medium and low wind speeds as well as W/L and random leg courses instead of the single number PHRF system. I believe that the process described by ORA will accurately predict the performance differences between similar boats over those conditions. I have sailed for over 50 years, raced for 45 years and been an aerospace engineer for 35 years so I believe I am qualified to make this judgement. That said, there are aspects that I don’t like about ORR-EZ, specifically the “black box” aspect of the rule. I did a conversion from fractional symmetric to fractional asymmetric on my boat 2 years ago. All of the impacts on my PHRF rating were spelled out on the PHRF-NE site so I could know before making the decision to change what the impact on my rating would be. Maybe the PHRF penalties for the conversion were fair, maybe they weren't, but at least I knew before I committed the cost and effort what the impact would be. Under ORR-EZ I would have to pay for a test certificate to find that out. Again I will point out that I am coming from the perspective of the PHRF-D fleet. There are no custom performance racers built for this fleet. If there is a boat that is under 20 years old in this fleet I would be shocked. Were the guys sailing the boat we have as best we can on a limited budget. Going from a $35 PHRF certificate to a $100 ORR-EZ is 2 entry fees or wrist bands for the crew at the Ted Hood regatta. A $400 ORC certificate means I might as well just stay home. If you “Grand Prix” races don’t want us dinosaurs out on the course with you, just say so and stop raising fees to keep us out. I do not believe that is what MBSA is trying to do. I do believe that they are trying to provide as fair a playing field as possible for as many as possible. I also believe that Mr. Teeters and Mr. Johnson have the same goal with ORR-EZ. On the implementation side, it is not clear if there is a plan to phase in just one system so that at least every MBSA sanctioned event is scored under just ORR-EZ. I think it would be good to have a plan to move to 1 rating system in 2 to 3 years. I think it would be helpful to those of us who are unfamiliar with ORR-EZ for ORA to publish the equivalent of a PHRF valid list on their website so that we can see how ORR-EZ treats existing boats allows those of us with orphans a point of reference. Long term it would be nice if they could extract a set of guidelines regarding common modifications the way PHRF does. Perhaps this could be as simple as providing a sample rating certificate of a stock J-24 to a J-24 with an asymmetric tacked to the bow and an asymmetric tacked to a 130% sprit.
  5. ORR in Long Island

    How much does an ORC certificate cost
  6. ORR in Long Island

    Thank you for your reply, I will be there and introduce myself, and I will keep an open mind. I tried to send these to the 2nd email address that you sent out but I got a reply form the recipient that he is not involved with MBSA
  7. ORR in Long Island

    Yes you did, and I do plan to be there tonight. My questions may be more for MBSA than ORR. 1) Has the decision to move to ORR been made or is this meeting just to provide information? I don't recall seeing any earlier emails or minutes on the website indicating this change was coming. 2) What is driving this change? 3) will all of the clubs be required to change to ORR or will they have the option to retain PHRF for non-MBSA sanctioned events? for instance if I participate in the JYC thursday night series will I still need PHRF certificate in addition to the ORR certificate? 4) I don't have a loft. all of my sails are either bought used or I sew them myself from sail kits because a $400 sail kit is much easier to afford than a $2500 sail from a loft. and its just PHRF D not the americas cup. I don't believe I am unique at that end of the rating band. 5) If we are just looking at the numbers on the PHRF certificate, whats the point? If we are using the numbers off the PHRF certificate to generate a VPP, that concerns me. I have an orphan boat, only 99 were built in the US and I may be the only person still racing one. My rating is 177, If I sail well I can beat a J-24 or an S2-7.9. If I don't, they beat me. but by the numbers I look more like a J-70. I saw nothing in the ORR guidelines that indicated an age allowance (the Fun23 was designed ~1980) I have molded in IOR-like measurement bumps at max beam and a bustle where the cassette rudder installs, but I did see that there was an additional $200 fee to appeal a rating. This aint no sport boat. I went through PHRF-NE to add a fixed sprit and asymmetric spinnaker without changing my rating, not because I thought it would be faster but because I am always the smallest boat out there and sometimes the waves are big so I don't want to unnecessarily put my bowman, who is also my son, at risk. I've owned this boat for 10 years and put in a lot of sweat equity to make it safe and optimize it within the restrictions of PHRF. If based on my numbers ORR pushes me closer to a J-70 than a J-24 there is no point in going out because I will be DFL every time. If I appeal the rating what would be the justification for changing, if it is a pure VPP the numbers must be right. I'm not trying to be a PITA, although I am quite qualified, But I want to know why the status quo is changing. I also want to know if the needs of the PHRF-D end of the rating band are being given as much consideration as the PHRF-A end of the rating band because I don't believe they are the same.
  8. ORR in Long Island

    I just received an email inviting me to a meeting for Mass Bay Sailing regarding the possibility of adopting ORR-EZ for 2018. for those of you who have sailed under it I would like to ask a few questions. 1) the ORR-EZ application on the US Sailing site appears to have roughly the same inputs as a typical PHRF certificate. since this is supposed to be a VPP based rule, that doesn't seem like enough information. what have actual users found 2) are additional measurements needed, does ORR-EZ have both "verified" and "unverified" certificates 3) if additional measurements are required, what are they and roughly how much would they cost? for reference, this is not a "grand prix" program. I'm a PHRF-D weekend warrior who does my own bottom work, the only electronics on board is depth and sits on a mooring so I am my own diver for bottom cleaning.
  9. Jeanneau Fun 24 - Anyone with experience?

    I am an owner. I have had mine since 2008. I absolutely love it but I'm not blind to it's shortcomings. wet deck core hasn't been a problem and, surprisingly, I haven't heard any others having a problem with the deck. what you do need to look at is the ring frame at the chainplates down low in the bilge and the longitudinal bulkheads that form the quarter berths. any softness in those and run away. you should also make sure that the chainplate U-bolts are tied into the ring frame with an aluminum angle, lower is forward of the frame, uppers are aft. if the boat is on a trailer, back the lift screw out 70 turns and inspect the thread, you may have to remove a cover bracket to do that, but its the only way to inspect it. If you do buy the boat, with the lift screw backed out 4 turns, knock out the drift pin on the bronze bushing and put one of these and 2 of the .126washers between the bushing and the mounting plate and put the bronze bushing back on. lube frequently with winch grease, this will make lifting the keel much easier. https://www.mcmaster.com/#5909k36/=1acenvw the lift screw is probably the weak part of the design because there is virtually no way to fully inspect it in the original configuration. I apparently has a ding on the thread somewhere and at the time I was dry sailing so lifting every time I used the boat. It eventually cut through the threaded bronze bushing I wound up cutting a window into the keel box above the waterline and sealing it with a plexiglass window to fix it. It really is a joy to sail. daysailing with the self tacker is about as easy as it can be. it has a big, open comfortable cockpit to sit in, and the boom is high enough to comfortably fit under when tacking. I race under PHRF and have a track for a 155% genoa. we will carry that to about 12 kts and then drop down to the self tacker. with the genoa we can easily outpoint a well sailed J24 club racer and with the self tacker above 15 we will be at least 5 degrees higher. about 5 years ago I added a fixed sprit and an a-sail. I am very happy with that. It doesn't sail any faster (or slower) but it does make handling much easier. we race on Massachusetts Bay of of Marblehead so we can get some pretty big swells so the a-sail keeps everyone in the cockpit. My son is my bowman and we've invested alot in him so I need to keep him around long enough to get some return on that.
  10. ISAF Antitrust Regulation?

    ok I'll bite. What was the worst thing to happen to the laser class?
  11. Trophy Vendors - Any Recommendations?

    I always like the engraved pint glasses https://www.eclipsetrophy.com/
  12. Laser rigging upgrades

    Yeah, you got a problem with that? My daughter is the english major, I'm just a lowly engineerd.
  13. Laser rigging upgrades

    I did buy a new intensity sail, but I have to keep that one
  14. Laser rigging upgrades

    defiantly pre 1990, I think its 1979 based on the hull number and its only a 5 digit sail number. It has 2 inspection ports, one on each side of the dagger board trunk. the owner bought it for his kids years ago because he thought they would like it better than a sunfish, but they prefered motor boats. so I got it a year ago for $400. My son loves it and we have several active local fleets.
  15. Laser rigging upgrades

    Is there enough material to put in a pair of plastic fairleads like the one that is factory installed for $6 instead of the $60 stainless plate?