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635 F'n Saint

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About shanghaisailor

  • Rank
    Super Anarchist
  • Birthday 09/17/1955

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  • Location
    Shanghai, China
  • Interests
    Sailing in all its forms & most other watersports

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  1. shanghaisailor

    Mocking Ads on Craigslist

    To suggest that a lot of boats didn't have VHFs because electronics were somehow banned is erroneous. Even a Decca set from that sort of era was the size of a piece of carry on baggage and charts were expensive because they had to have a Decca overlay printed on them. Then in bad weather (particularly damp conditions) you could get chain jump which electronically put you miles from where you really were. In fact two way radio was so expected that RORC even had a radio relay vessel in the area, if I remember correctly she was called Morningtown and she did an amazing job while not exactly n comfortable conditions herself. SS
  2. shanghaisailor

    Volvo Race High Traffic density report

    Precisely - don't know who came up with that distractor.
  3. shanghaisailor

    drop the drops

    Yeah - why not drop the discards and watch another tranche of sailors leave our sport. What a dumb idea. most sailing is Corinthian and in a long series there are multiple reasons why a sailor or boat owner cannot take part in a weekly series. Shiftwork (or other work commitments), family crisis, illness (not just their own, perhaps a family member), boat breakdown, injury (not necessarily caused on the race course) and I am sure sensible Anarchists can think of multiple other reasons. To expect a normal boat owner to attend each and every one of - say - 9 or 10 races in a series every whenever is not feasible. The competitive ones just wont bother and a lot of the non competitive ones wont either. Whoever came up with that little idea clearly has never been in the situation where he cannot make every race. Around 18 years ago I had to go in for pretty major surgery and would be in hospital recovering when the final race of the series was run. So the week before, after racing, I chucked the boat keys to one of my young crew with the words "Don't blow our series lead" (He didn't). Would I have been well pissed off if I had missed out on a series win due to non-sailing related health issues? You bet I would! Would it have chased me away from the sport? Probably not but then again not everyone is as passionate about sailing as I am, I know some who would leave. SS
  4. shanghaisailor

    Larry's AC50 Circus

    The Original Original New York, July 8, 1857 To the Secretary of the New York Yacht Club. Sir, The undersigned members of the New York Yacht Club, and late owners of the schooner yacht America, beg leave through you to present to the Club the Cup won by the America at the Regatta of the Royal Yacht Squadron at Cowes, England, August 22, 1851. This Cup was offered as a prize to be sailed for by yachts of all nations without regard to difference of tonnage, going round the Isle of Wight, the usual course for the Annual Regatta of the Royal Yacht Squadron, and was won by the America, beating eight cutters and seven schooner yachts which started in the race. This Cup is offered to the New York Yacht Club, subject to the following conditions: Any organized Yacht Club of any foreign country shall always be entitled, through any one or more of its members, to claim the right of sailing a match for this Cup with any yacht or other vesselof not less than 30 or more than 300 tons, measured by the Custom House rule of the country to which the vessel belongs. The parties desiring to sail for the Cup may make any match with the Yacht Club in possession of the same that may be deter­mined upon by mutual consent; but in case of disagreement as to terms, the match shall be sailed over the usual course for the Annual Regatta of the Yacht Club in possession of the Cup, and subject to its Rules and Sailing Regulations—the challenging party being bound to give six months' notice in writing, fixing the day they wish to start. This notice to embrace the length, Custom House measurement, rig and name of the vessel. It is to be distinctly understood that the Cup is to be the property of the Club, and not of the members thereof, or owners of the vessels winning it in a match; and that the condition of keeping it open to be sailed for by Yacht Clubs of all foreign countries, upon the terms above laid down, shall forever attach to it, thus making it perpetually a Challenge Cup for friendly competition between foreign countries. J. C. Stevens Edwin A. Stevens Hamilton Wilkes J. Beekman Finley George L. Schuyler
  5. shanghaisailor

    Larry's AC50 Circus

    Healthy helping of humble pie on the "own bottom" issue. It appears that the copy of the DoG I have had for the past 12 years has omissions. No one is perfect and I was wrong - apologies to all. SS
  6. shanghaisailor

    Larry's AC50 Circus

    Firstly, thank you for bringing a few moments of jollity and mirth to an otherwise hectic and busy day. On your first point I agree nations and countries ARE the same thing however to reiterate my point pride in nation and nationalism most certainly are not. To correct or expand on some of your points. The original DoG also stated boats had to "sail on their own bottom" I presume you are referring to the mfluder Deed of Gift as George Schuyler's version had no such condition attached, neither did it have any mention about the nationality of the crew. The only nationality mention was the yacht had to be built in the country of the challenging club. Also your reference to a 20% rule Its a 20% rule, not a 100% or even a 50% rule, its not even half!! infact, its not even a quarter!! Again this must be a mfluder rule According to the protocol for the 36th America's Cup released by the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron ( I believe they make the rules and not mfluder) :- Under the heading of "Crew Nationality" Point 10.1 states, and I quote "All crew racing in the CCS and the Match shall have the nationality of the yacht club that the competing yacht club represents" It does indeed say, (and if you read it properly) in Point 10.3 that 20% (or a minimum of 3) are a national of the competing country. Clever stuff (they think) which is actually quite transparent if you pause for a few milliseconds. If it IS 20% with a minimum of 3 just think what that means. For 20% of the crew to equal 3 the total crew would have to be 15 - nah! - never going to happen. Is it? Maybe - don't know!!! Then the other 80% (if it is a crew of 15) have to 1. reside in the country of challenge for 380 days of the 730 in the two year period (more than 50%). That would make them tax residents of that country in just about every jurisdiction in the world. 2. They have to have a permanent residence (home) in that country. The protocol calls is "place of abode"- same thing. 3. The sailor has to be able to prove that this is a permanent residence and not temporary (presumably for the duration of the qualifying period). As examples the Protocol states "Economic ties, social ties or location of personal properties in that country" So basically just like being a national without the actual passport. So you can have Larry and Russell to thank for this Nationality rule. Basically a false fact of Trumpian proportions. As far back as 1983 - and probably further. Johan Valentijn (Dutch) did work for Peter De Savary (GBR Victory Syndicate) but Dennis Connor wanted him to design him a boat (Liberty) Johan had to become and American citizen (it was a lot easier back then) to enable him to do so even though he was just the designer. Also I understand previous work he had done for Victory Syndicate was not allowed to be used by them so the nationality rules back then were tighter than now. Incidentally ALL of Australia's crew were Aussies as indeed all of Liberty's guys were American. Liberty lost the cup (35 years ago yesterday) a long time before Larry Ellison got interested in competing in the America's Cup even though he has been a lifelong sailor so to suggest the concept of nationality is down to Larry Ellison and Russell Coutts is quite inaccurate. Then you get to 10.5 and it is up to the RNZYS and COR to determine whether a team member qualifies or not. What a carve up! Only if THEY disagree will it be referred for arbitration. Hardly unbiased if they want to DSQ a hot shot sailor from another team. It is like Germany being able to decide if someone playing soccer for England AGAINST THEM being able to discuss with FIFA whether the player is English or not with England having no input of redress. For the record, as a Scot I am not biased at all - I don't care who beats England :-) Having said all that, it is usually the defender's bat and ball, they make up the protocol (the rules) to - naturally - favour their chance at retaining The Cup. The American's did that very successfully for 132 years. For example Mfluder's mention of "on own bottom" WAS indeed in the rules at one time, just NOT in the original Deed of Gift. It is what it is, if people want to take part in the event they have to follow the Protocol, I am sure all the challengers read the document very thoroughly before throwing their hat in the ring. Just to confirm some of the above points I shall put them to a good friend of mine who wrote the most definitive history of the America's Cup when I catch up with him in a few days time - see what he says. Anyway, back to work.
  7. shanghaisailor

    Larry's AC50 Circus

    I'm glad not everyone is so blind about the potential benefits to the profile of our sport as exciting and dynamic as another exciting event that showcases our sport.
  8. shanghaisailor

    Larry's AC50 Circus

    And I am not saying that they lack knowledge Terry but there are some on this forum that clearly don't - i'm not including you in that by the way but any suggestion that anyone has the right to determine how another individual spends their money is poppycock. If a provider of a product for consumption is confident in that product what does it matte if someone else launches what is perceived to be a competitor product. I don't know Larry Ellison personally but Iike many entrepreneurs it appears that once he has the t-shirt he doesn't necessarily want another the same. He has match raced, won a handlfull of world championships, won the Sydney Hobart, Won AND defended the America's Cup at a reputed personal cost of over USD1Bn. So why try again? As a competitive person he perhaps he feels he couldn't compete under the COR slanted current protocol but still wants to be involved in yacht racing - his money, his call. I really don't believe that any series he is/isn't funding will have any impact on competitor numbers in the AC as those with the serious intent and financing have already showed their hand and had done so before "Larry's Circus", as people appear to love to call it, was even a glimmer of a rumour. Personally I think it is great that we have two potential sailing extravaganzas, three if you include the Atlant Ocean Race. Such coverage can only do our sport good in terms of exposure. Time will tell. Love to stir the pot. SS
  9. shanghaisailor

    Larry's AC50 Circus

    Ha ha - "don't try and teach your grannie to suck eggs" as my (strangely enough) my grandmother used to say to me. The most important document in the America's Cup, the deed of gift made on 24th October 1877 actually states it is "for friendly competition between foreign countries". As far as I am aware (and students of the Cup may know better) the only nationality requirement of the Deed of Gift is that of the challenging club. However subsequent revisions/amendments or individual defence protocols have changed this, none of which could obviously be with reference to George Schuyler's original thoughts or wishes when he gifted the, what was then known as the 'One Hundred Pound Cup' for use in the competition. Nationality of other than the club is clearly NOT in line with the early America's Cup as one of the greatest America's Cup skippers, Charlie Barr was NOT a born American as he was born in Gourock, Scotland. He successfully defended The Cup three times although I am not sure at which stage he acquired American citizenship. It should also be noted there is a huge difference between pride of one's nation and 'nationalism' which in many ways is only one step up from racism. I am very proud of being Scottish but I am not a "Nationalist" - they are two very different things - that is the point I am making and I believe that the inclusion of the country's name in a team name is to engender that 'pride of nation', NOT nationalism. As far as your statement that "" the event itself" ….. well it is called the AMERICA's Cup. :-) Perhaps it is semantics but they are NOT the same thing. SS
  10. shanghaisailor

    The Spirit of Sailing - Elvstrom

    I completely agree (see my article on the front page) Competitors need to realise they are not bigger than the sport which created their opportunities. In sailing she would quite likely have received a black flag from many umpires. - And for the small minded that implies no racial connotations by the way. SS
  11. shanghaisailor

    Larry's AC50 Circus

    I would also add that, in my opinion, if our sport has another sponsor/backer that is wiling to put a ton of money into a team, and event, or a series that will attract the attention of non sailors out there because it is exciting then as sailors we should all be going whoop de doop. If that conflicts - no scratch that - competes with the America's Cup - and I don't believe it does, then perhaps instead of throwing brick-bats at the 'other' event supporters of the AC should be suggesting to ACM that they raise THEIR game. You don't sell your own product (and that's what these are in the sponsorship world) by knocking the other. For those who are somewhat 'nationalistic' in your views (you know who you are) you need to realise that the America's Cup is NOT your event. The structure of the AC is that the RNZYS are TRUSTEES of the trophy, they don't own it. As a quite candid thought perhaps there would have been more declared entries if the protocol wasn't quite so swung the defender's way with a design that is, well - 'different' and with nationality rules so stringent. If I were ETNZ I would be more concerned about their COR than a 50 foot foiling cat. Just throwing some pebbles in the pond but from the standpoint of knowledge rather than supposition, rumour or conjecture. Had to smile at Scuttlebutt's article though - they can't even get the date right, close but no cigar. Over to you! SS
  12. shanghaisailor

    Larry's AC50 Circus

    They only know part of the story.
  13. shanghaisailor


    Pax Jack. It's difficult not to react when you have friends boats wrecked. Nothing fake about that. What wasn't fake was the strength of the gusts coupled to the storm surge. However while there has been quite a bit of fake news surrounding the storms there is nothing 'fake' about the impact in Hong Kong. It doesn't matter whether it was 40 knots or 140 knots, a lot of boats have been sunk or severely damaged and some people I have spoken to, one who has lived in Hong King al their life (high side of 50) told us she has never seen an impact like this on the boats on the water. I also would refer to the photos I posted (and I have dozens more) - no photoshop, real boats sunk or on the rocks, nothing fake about the heartbreak of those owners. But yes the media certainly do hype these things up. I just about wet myself laughing at the weather channel reporter doing his little dance as if it was blowing like hell while the two guys walked past behind him - a perfect video bomb. Anyway, normal service is now resumed and the clean up continues. SS
  14. shanghaisailor


    I wrote a tirade Jack, but I deleted it because it is really not worth it. It is easy to be blasé about the losses of others, in this case the approx. 60 people that Mangkhut killed. When you are personally involved it takes on a different timbre. Ask any of the sailing and boating community in Hong Kong right now. I wouldn't tell them you were the Jack Sparrow who wrote the "out of context" post though, they might turn unfriendly
  15. shanghaisailor


    What is babble to someone the other side of the world is real trauma to those living through it Jack. We were fortunate to NOT be in Hong Kong but still had F10-F11 coming through our compound and even here some trees were uprooted. In HK at least 30 boats sank, ended up smashed on the sea wall or dumped on the hard by the almost (3.9) 4m storm surge. One person's "babble" is someone else's personal trauma or tragedy. Sadly an RP52, (the old Yendys) and the first Chinese team we worked with when she was called APAT was one of the victims with goodness knows what damage to her ended up perched metres above the water having been literally thrown there by Mangkhut. Sad to see - and she wasn't alone. SS