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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

edt

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About edt

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    mi
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    kites
  1. Sailing enthusiasts are a bit old fashioned and quite simply enjoy being on a monohull better. was the flying could that super fast clipper from 100 and something years ago use a monohull or did Columbus sail to America on a cat? in the end I think people sail monohulls because they like it better and its not like you will ever be as fast as any motorboat so speed is not essential. I doubt things will ever change no matter how good cats and tris get. let people sail what they like.
  2. Vestas Sailrocket

    i cant wait until kite designers make changes. There hasn't been any change in kite design since the Legaignoux brothers invented the kite bridle in 2004 or so. Kite manufacturers have needed a kick in the nuggets for a while now to get them out of their comfort zone. I know I said, why would kite manufacturers build this, but I realized they have needed this sort of challenge for a long time, they just never knew it. Thanks sailrocket. We needed that.
  3. Vestas Sailrocket

    that's not the angle of the kite lines it's the angle of the pull from the kite which is also dependent on angle of attack. This particular diagram is when the rider is going 50 knots, so for current kites there is almost no extra speed it can take. For the more advanced kite you can see that you can add another 20 or 30 knots before apparant wind shifts so that the kite pull is perpendicular to the direction of travel. The diagram is just a snapshot at a particular speed
  4. Vestas Sailrocket

    That's because the best kiters in the world are in france rite now waiting for the mistral rob douglas alex caizergues etc. Luderitz is more about looking at some nice national records. Rob just did a 53 in an easy practice run at salins du midi, in less than ideal wind. don't expect to hear about this from the ludertiz site they are competitors for the best speed kiting location. "As regards the outright World Speed Sailing record, recently set by Sailrocket, that’ll take time but we’ll get there." -- morgan douglas rob's little bro
  5. Vestas Sailrocket

    Actually it is very very easy to improve the L/D ratio of kites. Right now kites run an L/D ratio of somewhere around 3 or 4 to 1 tho of course L/D is not just a number but a function of wind speed. Personally I like to ride Fuels, which has an even worse L/D ratio. The advantage of low L/D's in wakestyle is that when you load to pop out of the water, the kite has further to travel to the edge of the window giving you better pop and better slack for your handle pass. Also when the kite stays deeper in the wind window it is much less likely to hindenberg and fall out of the sky. Now it's true a better L/D ratio helps you go upwind better and gives you a better top speed, but it doesn't really matter, you go upwind so you can do a trick downwind it doesn't matter, what you want is good handling. Kites with high L/D also are really awful doing megaloops, they don't give you a big yank downwind. Anyway, there are a bunch of other reasons, but even with racing kites like the cab kites that tend to win all the races, the L/D ratio at 65 knots is not that important because when we go kite racing, it's always about 10 knots. When the wind picks up to 20 knots, racing is called off for that day and we switch to freestyle. There is simply a tremendous amount of improvement that could be done to the kites. Will it be done? Do we really want to go 65 knots in a kite? I dunno. Our boards are not where the improvement needs to be it's in the kites. We could easily get up to 10 or 15 to 1 L/D ratio's but you couldn't use that kite for freestyling, only for racing, and it wouldn't help normal racing, only high speed racing.
  6. Vestas Sailrocket

    The entire board is a ventilating fin, the actual fin on a speed board is there only for stabilization. While a formula kite racing board will start out flat and then foil up off the fins a speed board uses the edge of the board to foil. I'm convinced the boards are very well designed. The best kind of R&D has gone into them, the trial and error at high speed kind. There has been zero R&D for kite design at high speed. I'm not sure kiters actually need to get to 65 knots. So dangerous, I would hate to lose someone over this.
  7. Vestas Sailrocket

    modern kites have tons of drag that's why they can't get more efficient vectors, they fall backwards into the wind window a typical leading edge is 6 inches to a foot in diameter
  8. Vestas Sailrocket

    It's all related to the polar of your sailing craft, draft and lift. You might have noticed as you sail faster and faster the angle of apparent wind moves upwind into your direction of travel. A more efficient sail lets you sail closer to the wind and go faster. Right now kiters are bound by the inefficient kites at 1.2x wind speed. Now of course you can build a stronger boat and just make the sail bigger, and force the kiter to pull harder, but what good does it to go build everything bigger for incremental improvements, when you can almost double the efficiency with a better kite.
  9. Vestas Sailrocket

    rite now the speed kiters are pulling 50-100 pounds and accelerating at less than half a G. We aren't even close to human limits. The kites however are like giant sky anchors. Kite lines snap at between 600 and 800 pounds and you shouldn't put more than 300 pounds on them.
  10. Vestas Sailrocket

    Just think about how the polar diagram works for all sailing craft and you'll see why improving the kite efficiency is so important. There is a loss of control going from a higher aspect to a lower aspect foil on kites. I think our boards are about as close to that as we want to take it. Kiters are constantly flying their kites and adjusting their center of gravity in response to the wind just the same as the sailrocket is constantly adjusting his sail rudder, it's just that it's more easy to see on a kite. The sailrocket has potental to get up to 80 or 90 knots. Right now I think we can catch them with mere design changes in the kites.
  11. Vestas Sailrocket

    From a standing position Rob can pull about 1,000 with his legs through the 500 meter course, if that force is directed towards the finish, he will be able to withstand about 3 and a half G's worth of acceleration more force than the space shuttle launching. The human is not the weak link here. The problem is that the kite at 50 knots is all drag, so we just end up plowing up a huge rooster tail and not getting any more speed. With a better kite (a wing), I think this record is in reach. But, I don't think Cabrinha is interested in building one because there's no money in it. We are stuck at something like 1.2x wind speed. Our lite wind kites and race boards by contrast can get 2x or more wind speed in 10 knots. That's where the R&D is.
  12. Vestas Sailrocket

    I think our boards are fine, we have done a lot of experimenting with them but our kites are like the other guy said off the rack cabrinha switchblade. The problem with our current kites is that we have all this force pressing directly downwind. With a more efficient kite, that pulls upwind, you don't have to be nearly as strong and you can go much faster. Kiters might just give up on it, the kite buggies after all don't try to chase the greenbird, which rocked out a 126 mph run. The greenbird looks much like the sailrocket except the wing is on the main body not the leeward pod. Kitebuggies are up to 84mph. The problem with a 65knot record is that it's far away and tantalizingly close. I think with a bit of kite R&D we can break it. the Sailrocket looks like she has some more speed in her with more tweaks. She'll need another huge run to put it completely out of reach like the greenbird did on land.
  13. Vestas Sailrocket

    That's what I think. We are limited to 2012 technology and can only build so big.
  14. Vestas Sailrocket

    Exactly. so when you double a three 3 dimensional object in size its mass increases by a factor of 8. But the strength of all the parts only increases by a factor of 4 because the strength of an object is proportional not to the mass, but to the cross sectional area of all of the parts. So you double the diameter of your amsteel blue line and its four times stronger. But the sail rocket itself weighs 8 times more. so when ever you double the size of everything in a 3-d object it is half as strong proportionally so unless you switch to more exotic construction techniques something is gonna break. This principle applies to hang gliders, airplanes, submarines, cats and elephants, and also the sailrocket. I am pretty sure that the sailrocket right now is almost perfectly sized.
  15. Vestas Sailrocket

    Like I said I've done a poor job explaining it. Maybe someone with a better engineering background can make it more clear.