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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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  1. Caribbean 600

    I think saying "relative lack of success" is a little unfair. It held the 24-hr solo world record. That's not bad. I know it didn't set the world on fire, but it did do well on a tight budget. It makes me think of Hydroptere, which also had a shockingly tight budget. To dismiss the concept as "failed" is premature. When I saw Hydroptere in LA is was blown away by how unrefined it was. What they could've done with a stumpy rig and good sails...all their record runs were with staysails and reefs in. If setting the record is the goal, then have a big wind sail plan. The drag of 30' of mast without sails, and the headstay sag of a staysail is to give away lots of top-end performance. But your point remains...too much innovation in one platform can risk killing the whole concept. I'm eager to see the Goetz Chris White bi-plane boat that's supposed to launch soon. It should be marching around the same waters as other boats (nominally) in the same segment. Hopefully they line up against a GB or HH.
  2. 61.1 Informing the Protestee

    Seems the RC could enter the 2000's and snap a photo of the protest board and email to all competitors as a courtesy. Maybe, if they're REALLY fixated on obsolete technology, they could fax the protest board. Theres something insultingly antiquated to flags, horns, and bulletin boards.
  3. Caribbean 600

    I don't buy into the automated sheet release systems as a solution for the average cruiser or cruiser/racer. Boats are too wet and are already too complex to put in MORE complex systems, and I feel it's wishful thinking that those systems will be reliable, functional, robust, and user-friendly enough to actually count on them to save your ass. UpSideUp make every part needed to create a safe boat. Mainsheet release, jib sheet, outhaul, whatever. BUT...you end up with a boat so complex that it either needs shore crew, or a mad scientist owner, or it doesn't work. Folks like Trackday, or singlehanders like Gabbart or Joyon can tune and maintain systems like those. For boats that sail 4x/ year it's fine to have a fussy, complex system. There are 45 weeks a year to tune the boat up. Every boat that's used on a normal basis that I've seen with those systems, though, has ripped them out or ignored them. It FEELS clever, but I can't help but feel that...just like there's nothing faster than a panicked man with a bucket, there's no replacement for a watchful hand on a sheet. DDW, I totally agree that accepting this as OK and normal isn't good, and we should take advantage of a teachable moment when it presents itself. For me, the improvements to be made are ergonomic and hardware related. Someone correctly pointed out that the trav winch on Fujin was maddeningly manual. I didnt' like it because I'm fat and old (and it was hard work turning a winch handle) but it's true that putting a line in the self-tailer, turning the winch, unloading the self-tailer, ease, load the self-tailer, turn the winch, etc, etc etc, isn't safe or fast. On Fujin inshore racing we would have a trav grinder. I can easily imagine at night that someone was trying to do it solo. With that said, I know they did a "winch refit" recently that may have addressed that. The mainsheet system was both hydraulic AND rope, and rope was the preferred trimming technique when I've been aboard. Hard to improve on that "belt and suspenders" approach. Jib sheet was rope to a constrictor (?) to a winch. That could be a critical delay point. Other than that, I would agree with what someone said upthread. If a trimmer or helmsman can only hang on to the line or wheel as they get to extreme heel angles, then that's a problem. Foot chocks seem out of place on a cat, but I've long thought that removable chocks would help in racing. I usually brace my hip somewhere (to leeward) when we get to hull fly mode, so I can reliably stay where I am while I turn to weather or ease or whatever. You also have to remember to just LET GO if you get to 30 degrees or wherever the point of no return is based on your bracing. I don't know if the point I'm about to make is true in this particular case, but I know from sailing with and against Fujin that they boat is STIFF and stable. The bow shape really seems to work. The foil package works. It's very beamy for its length. We raced against them in the around the island race one year at Heineken. It was 22-25 TWS. On Soma, we were stuffing the bow every other wave, on the edge, pushing hard AF, sailing in Extreme 40 mode. On Fujin they were full main and sending it...and walking away from us :(. I asked them after if they ever felt at risk of getting unstuck. They said "never". It could be that the "spoon" bows, t-rudders, and c-boards produce so much stability at speed that they DON'T get unstuck in normal sailing mode, that the boat does what it's supposed to. Full credit to Paul for a great design and to Greg for going for it. But....park the boat up in the lee of the island, no lift on the foils, and they get "tippy". Or tippier than they might expect based on the wind/sail combo. Just like an offspeed bearaway, but straightline. I don't know. What I do know is that Pollyanna's like overlay contribute nothing to the conversation, and headlines like the one on the FP are trite and unfunny. Thankfully no one was seriously hurt. This will have repercussions for all of the industry. We will all be smarter and more cautious as a result. RC's will look harder at us in the future. BTW-HBD Greg!
  4. Caribbean 600

    I disagree with the idea of doing it in a race, but raising a board will result in leeway and will raise the wind speed to hull fly. Gunboat, Formula 40, A-class, doesn't matter, hull flying is HARD without boards As far as free-standing rigs and/or the other go slow options mentioned above meant to increase safety, you could also just buy a Swan and be safe as a Volvo. Or...build a wicked fast rocket ship, sail it like a man, and let the chips fall where they may. I say kudos to Greg.
  5. Caribbean 600

  6. Caribbean 600

    That sofa comfortable?
  7. Caribbean 600

    "Team Dazzla safely back in port. Lost the forestay at 5am when the fitting twisted and then let go. We had been sailing with three reefs and a scrap of foresail only through massive squalls, the last wind speed we saw before it went was 44 knots, then we couldn't see the instruments anymore as the driving rain was like razors on our faces and eyes...David and Colin jury rigged a stay so the mast didn't fall down but sadly not strong enough for us to risk continuing to sail and stay in the race. Motoring for 14 hours to get back to Falmouth harbour, much of the way with just one engine due to it overheating, wind still gusting up to 38 knots and big seas pushing us off course so it was a long journey home. We're sad we weren't able to complete the race but are very proud of ourselves for what we did manage in extreme conditions. I'll post some more shots and updates tomorrow. In the meantime, here's the guilty fitting that let us down"
  8. Caribbean 600

    Fujin: capsize Flow: hydraulics Falcon: electrical Apollo: engine/electrical Guyader: ?? Wow: ??
  9. We pulled literally 1000 self-tappers out of the inner skin on Chim Chim (6202). I'd like find whoever thought that was a good idea and kick him in the shins. On Chim, we removed all thru-hulls, deck penetrations, screw holes, etc. Then, we set up a vacuum bag in local areas, starting at the ends, and dried everything. We'd leave it under a relatively low vacuum for a week, trusting whatever wasn't pulled out as a liquid would evaporate. We then repaired the laminate, closed out the holes, made the skin-to-skin bond, used Weld Mount studs or Plexus (in lieu of self-tappers or through bolting), then epoxy barrier coated inside and out. It took a long time on the calendar but not much time in actual labor hours. We'd basically start the week by emptying a cabin of all hardware, and by the end of the day the bag would be on, pump running. We'd check our "sump" each day, and at the end of the week we'd take the bag off. Then we'd make the repairs and move on to the next cabin. All it itakes is one bad thruhull or whatever and the whole boat gets wet. On Zen, the integral water tank was leaking into the core. If you left the watermaker running too long water would seap out of the bulkhead around head height! My fix was to not run the watermaker too long. On this refit, they went in through the bottom of the hull (while they had the core off) and repaired the tank from the inside. The alternative was to demo the amidship head and tech space, to chop out the floor, to chop out the tank top. It was a clever solution, going in through the bottom. Obviously, the hope is everything is done right and there are zero fuck ups. In reality...of course water will get in.
  10. Droppin' science like Galileo dropped the orange! What he said. ^
  11. Caribbean 600

    My count of retired boats is: Flow Fujin Falcon guyader Apollo
  12. To clarify, there was no REAL reason to replace the core. The core WAS wet in several spots, but it wasn't rotten or delaminated. The yard and supporting designer convinced the owner it was prudent to preemptively solve the problem. I didn't agree, but it wasn't my problem to solve. Other Gunboats with similar issues didn't take that same path, either. It was a solution without a problem. Overlay, I'm comparing wet-layup vs infusion. An infused hull presumably fills the kerfs with resin from top to bottom. A wet layup presumably leaves the kerfs empty. What am I getting wrong?
  13. Also, if I had to choose between empty kerfs that are full of water from the waterline down vs kerfs full of resin from top to bottom, I'd take salty kerfs.
  14. Alright. Let me rephrase myself. Every kerfed boat I've been on, from a half dozen different builders (including non-Gunboats) has had water migration issues. My formula 40 had a hole in the inner skin that constantly weaped water. It took me 8 years of looking to find where the water was getting in! It turned out it was the daggerboard trunk Honest question...what do the kerfs get filled with? Not resin, surely? Are you arguing that every skin penetration is done perfectly? Ideally, sure, you go skin-to-skin everywhere. But there are +/-1000 penetration in a Gunboat. I think it's naive to think that there is a zero chance of water intrusion... I'm not in any position to defend what GB did 18 years ago. Zen was built by a 3rd party and I had nothing to do with it. It doesn't affect the
  15. Core was Corecell. It was vacuum bagged. Every Gunboat 62 has had to address their soggy cores. Each boat takes their own path to a resolution. I didn't agree with the decision to peel the bottom off, but they've got folks smarter than me offering advice. What's shocking to me is just how loved these early Gunboats are, and how innovative and ahead of their time they were. In the subsequent 20 years since these were conceptualized by MM no one has come up with a better boat! Look at Elvis (Gunboat 6204). Full cruising comfort, 15 yrs old, and STILL smoking everything on the water. If there was a replacement option for the current Gunboat owners to consider I think they'd go for it. But reinvesting in their current platform is the best path forward. A turbo'd HH is "only" 10% slower than a turbo'd 62. Dazcat? Currently they are showing a VMG average of 10 knots. Elvis is almost 15. That's night and day.