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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Steve Clark

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About Steve Clark

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    Where the water is thin.
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    Human folly.

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  1. Next VOR on IMOCAs?

    One of the objections to these canting keel raceboats is that a diesel engine runs in the background to shift the ballast. If this was, instead, achieved with batteries charged by hydrogenerators, I believe one of the objections could be muted. So one might still have an fossil fuel auxiliary, but it would not be used in the generation of energy to sail the vessel. Managing the energy would be a new feature of the race, and would lead to the development of better protocols and practices. SHC
  2. Next VOR on IMOCAs?

    In many ways, I think a yacht that qualifies and is competitive in as many offshore race formats could be highly desirable. There is nothing saying that the same sailors have to be aboard for solo, double handed or fully crewed events. In fact a circuit that had singlehanded, fully crewed men, fully crewed women, mixed crew, doublehanded, mixed doublehanded races in more or less rapid succession on fleet of similar boats could be the ultimate team event, providing more texture than the current Volvo or any of the short handed races. Remember that Taberly sailed the maxi PenDuick in the OSTAR single handed without modification when he had no specialized yacht for the race. I expect one could configure a Volvo 65 for short handed sailing pretty easily. More rollers and an autopilot and you are 90% there. Probably easier than figuring out where to accommodate 8-10 bodies on an IMOCA 60. SHC
  3. Traveling in excess of 25 knots on any vessel under 300 feet in +10 meter seas is wet. Not to say dangerous to the point of being unseamanlike. Any captain has to have a very good justification for continuing at flank speed in such a sea state. But this is exactly the nature of the Volvo Ocean Race. It is kind of like racing up Everest. Let's find a place where mere survival is a challenge and race there... It is inherently risky to the point of stupidity and as a result deemed to be heroic. Some mothers don't see the point. Recall that the design brief was to deliver a boat with performance on par with the Volvo 70 but with enhanced durability and drastically reduced team campaign costs. I think the boats are getting around the oceans more than fast enough, and that Nick Bice and the Boatyard crew are doing a very good job of keeping a fleet ready to go to sea. It has to be an enormous challenge. If the boats throw a bit more water around than I would like, tough shit, I don't race them. SHC
  4. used mast for sale?

    The Nomad mast section is a Sheldon Gamma, which is their largest and stiffest dinghy section. It is probably marginally under spec for the Nomad, but we chose a light and limber rig under the " performance daysailer" rubric. The rig was intended to be very responsive to Cunningham and vang, enabling the boat to be worked to weather in brisk conditions. Raking back also helps freeup the jib leech further depowering the rig. The Small keelboat sections were all too stiff to permit this type of tuning. SHC
  5. I talked to Ian Walker about adding shelter for the crew. Apparently there was a provision in the original design, but it was vetoed by the crews. I wouldn't put up with that shit for long, I would be building shelters out of the stack and anything else I could find .... Also, remember that the VOR 65 is significantly heavier than as designed and as a result is going to throw more water around. Replacing the fleet seems like a foolish thing. The boats are going plenty fast, they have some things that could be improved, but I would have to believe these could be done at a lower cost than building a whole new fleet. Look at how many times they have rebuilt WOXI. Cutting off the front and adding replacing the front 20' of boat to reflect the heavier displacement and improve sea keeping would change the boats dramatically, improve their performance and make them less like submarines. They could solve a lot of problems by just making the boat longer. Making the boats more stable would require redesign of the masts and load bearing parts of the hulll. This could be done, but it might be more attractive to use some form of DSS with a reduction of lead to get the same righting moment at lower displacement. SHC
  6. Next VOR on IMOCAs?

    Is it really true that the IMOCA 60s are faster on balance than the Volvo 65s? I seem to recall that Hugo Boss got pretty well pants by the whole Volvo fleet in the last Fastnet. SHC
  7. Youth evolution in sailing

    http://turnto10.com/news/local/high-school-sailors-rescued-after-3-boats-capsize Why Club 420s are the way they are. Don't take the cheap shot and blame the kids or the coaches. They are what they are, and mistakes get made. These boats may have been sailing the next day, it depends on whether the masts are really bent or just bowed because they are out of the partners. Also note, those boats are AT LEAST 11 years old because they have Vanguard stickers on them. SHC
  8. VOR Leg 7 Auckland to Itajai

    I remember talking to Loic Dorenz, who was lead designer for Groupama's VOR win about the "unofficial" balasting of Volvo 70's. Apparently Camper had 1000kg of vacuum pack rice as " Food Stores." He pointed to Abu Dhabi's mid ocean repair and asked "Where did all that 10mm threaded rod come from?" He did not disclose what Groupama had packed away..... SHC
  9. Square heads

    Fuck off kid. Your Dad. SHC PM follows with details.
  10. Square heads

    Julian: Catamarans lose righting moment when they start foiling. In part because the center of effort goes up by the amount you rise above the water, and the side force from the board remains pretty close to the same place. The lift vector off the daggerboard is also probably closer to centerline than the center of buoyancy of the leeward hull. For most of my experience, catamarans have been doing everything to fly a hull sooner and were starved for power down wind. Around the track, being heavy was always a disadvantage, you would lose twice as much down wind as you could gain upwind. Foiling seems to have turned that on it's head. Current obsession is it's getting the CoE as low as possible once you are flying. Which explains the very endplated rigs. I agree with your thinking that a certain amount of sail behind the mast makes sense at the tip just to reduce the drag of the tip. If that area is just following along, it still helps to mitigate some of the tip vortices. I guess that's what all the colored pictures show. When asked about tip treatments, Burt Rutan said," I don't care, just make it longer." More to Conner's point, there are lots of variables and each may have their place is the tool kit. Mast design, sail plan, cloth selection and thread orientation and stretch, are all mixed and matched to get to a good result. I don't believe there is a single silver bullet which is always right except for the really obvious things like having a smooth bottom and not dragging extra shit around...so it is always a process of iterative refinement. Breakthroughs are very rare, and often are preceded by long periods of iterative refinement which reaches what I call a Toggle Moment where all the assumptions have to be updated. SHC
  11. Vacuum Bagging wet core area to pull moisture out?

    Done it more than once. Vacuum reduces the vapor pressure, so whatever water there is will evaporate faster. Use heat as well. Not uncommon to boil water out of balsa under a vacuum bag if it hasnt been dried before laminating. Painful lesson that one You will want to put a trap in the line between the pump and the part, because somehow there always is some condensation and it's better if your pump doesn't eat it. It alway takes a long time to dry things out, and you really can't rush it, so if you have a tight deadline, just cut until you get to dryness. SHC
  12. Square heads

    Once again I get pedantic. It's a Park AVENUE boom. Named after the famous Park Avenue in New York City. As a 9 year old, my mother was walked down Enterprise's Park Avenue Boom holding Starling Burgess' hand. There were probably advantages to the set up that were more significant than the supposed end plating. For example getting enough shape in the bottom of the mainsail, something that was hard to achieve with the materials of the day. It makes intuitive sense to get mainsail luff behind the fattest part of the jib. But as all development classes, short of the classic skiffs, have sail area restrictions, you have to determine if area in one place is more effective than area in another. I have always worked on the premise that area up high worked harder than area down low. After all the wind aloft is stronger and force varies at the difference of the square, so if I had area to add, i do it on top. So if I had to measure the cuff, it would take some real convincing not to add that area to the top of the roach. Nevertheless, on all my IC sail plans, the tack of the main is as close to the deck as I can arrange. On the other hand, the in PANAIR results we saw running the C Class wing sealed to the trampoline sealed to the hulls showed such significant reductions in induced drag (in the order of 30%) that i felt it couldn't be ignored. There were two other benefits. The center of effort lowered more readily in response to twist, making de-powering by twist more effective. And the vertical force under the leeward side of the trampoline went from less than nothing to being able to pick up half the weight of the boat. I really though this was too good to be true, but the direction was clear. Never got a satisfactory seal in order to see if it really worked. Dave is right, though, you have to REALLY seal the foot to get the advantage. SHC
  13. Square heads

    Never heard "crippling" in that context, where as " buckling out of column" is something that has crippled me on more than one occasion. Things aren't good here in the Home of the Brave. Episode 5 " The Assholes Strike Back....." is kind of how I see it. SHC
  14. Square heads

    Julian, I think you mean Euler Buckling, which defines the " critical load" for column in compression. as you point out, there were lots of ways to pursue getting the mainsail to react properly for a given stability of boat. When the 18s "only had two rules" the rigs could get taller when people wanted to add area, with limited rig height, you do stupid things just to get more sail area. Big flat sails being better than small full sails, the advances in materials and sail design make these things possible. The second point is that there are many variables which combine to skin this cat. I learned a great deal about how to optimize rigs from an old guy named Lou Whitman, who built very nifty pre-stressed wooden spars that could be induced to flex at different rates depending on rig tension and luff tension. He would plane off parts and add different woods to tune the spar to a sail cut, modify the sail cut and then change the mast again. He was something like 75 years old when I met him, and it took me about two years to ever beat him upwind. He wasn't genoeous with his technique and acquired knowledge, and was harshly critical of my attempts to learn and experiment. Things like "we tried that in '53 and it was a failure," " save yourself some heartache" and my favorite," you're trying to give us the benefit of your experience, but you haven't got any!" But I did figure it out. The problem was how to achieve what he was doing with endless tweaking of sails and masts with stuff I could repeatable build and sell. So we played with panel rotation, roach profile, hounds height, and cloth specification to get sails that worked . the Swedish IC team all built their own sails. They had a ritual of progressively pulling on downhaul vang, mainsheet and rocking the boat in the dolly. There was a particular way the sail " turned inside out" that was indicative of how the sail would twist and de power and when. If it wasn't right, adjustment to battens, seams and stitching followed very much in the mode of what Julian describes. One design sailors don't do this work. They get "tuning guides" from sailmakers and coaches and slavishly conform to them. It was a different world, which was lots of fun. Square head is not magic, it is one of the various roach profiles. A Class cats have gone back to pin heads because they want to keep the center of pressure low with the stability losses inherent with foiling. Various attempts to end plat the tops of sails have been tried, it is hard to get right, and if not right, it is weight and drag right where you want it least. Things like this take lots of effort and time. SHC
  15. VOR Leg 7 Auckland to Itajai

    My point! +1 for ME Humm Chuck Hillies! SHC