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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Steve Clark

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About Steve Clark

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    Where the water is thin.
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    Human folly.

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  1. Mast tabernacle plans

    Putting the mast up on a tower, which is pretty much what you are doing, increases the moment arm of the mast base loads into the the structure of the deck around the mast step. You are essentially providing the mast more leverage to make an escape. I think you have to increase the size of the base, and add gussets or webs to the outside to stabilize the whole affair. You will need to arrange some form of gin pole or shear legs if you want to crank the mast upright with a winch on the forestry. SHC
  2. Adhesive removal

    It takes a while no matter how you do it, and you won't be happy with the results. I find the orange not so toxic paint remover works about as well as anything. Slop it on and wait a good long time, like overnight. The next morning use a single edge razor blade and lots of paper towels. Naptha, benzine , xylene and the 3m crap are toxic as hell and not stuff you want to spend the day with. I never fount the rubber flappy things to work worth a crap. SHC
  3. Mast tabernacle plans

    24' mast on 19' day sailor shouldn't weight enough to warrant "winching". If the base is pinned, it's pretty easy to pick up the end and walk forward. The shrouds will get less slack as you get close to vertical. I dislike counting on the relatively thin aluminum side plates to do all the work of the mast step. The G10 plates indicate that this piece as designed is not very strong or stable. I would recommend You have a tenon like on the base of a conventional mast which will rotate a more conventionl step as the rig is raised, you can then remove the pin/ bolt and have the mast standing on the deck like it's supposed to. The lateral and fore and aft loads are transferred directly to the deck and not into something that wants to paralleigram and fall down like a house of cards. SHC
  4. VOR Leg 4 Melbourne to Honkers

    Didn't they race through Singapore on the last round, or the one previous I understand that 30 miles out is the "high seas." But, Hong Kong is one of the busiest ports in the world, with a known reputation for multiple unlit vessels operating at night. My sphincter tightens just thinking about it. Charles is hammer down about an hour behind you, he will be right on your ass the second the wind turns off, so you can't really throttle back. You don't want excess caution to cost you to lose a points, so you "imitate the action"of a Frenchman, and go for it. Unfortunately, God doesn't protect you like he favors the French......as you learn the hard way. Bonus point if you know the reference. SHC
  5. VOR Leg 4 Melbourne to Honkers

    Once the immediate rescue has been completed, Vestas then probably had to determine if they could get their own vessel into port. Once again, that's a big fucking hole in the bow. Sure there is a watertight bulkhead, but do you really know if the vessel is manageable with the bow compartment flooded. 30 miles is a lot further than I can swim. 'Twere me, I'd have every Volvo boat divert to Vestas' position as they were pproaching just to make sure the brothers and sisters in arms were making it home ok. SHC
  6. VOR Leg 4 Melbourne to Honkers

    This whole mess sucks. I fully respect the crew of Vestas, in this iteration and as Alvimedica they have proven themselves as totally competent and responsible seafarers. Thousands of miles without incident, when others were capsizing, running aground, breaking shit, dropping sails overboard and getting injured, Enright and Towhill competed and arrived without drama or needing repairs. I would not jump to the conclusion that they are negligent bozos, in fact of all the crews in this race, I would assume the opposite. This must have been an extraordinary situation. The damage to Vestas 11th Hour Racing was not trivial, yet they remained on station and assisted in the rescue. That's a pretty big hole in the bow of a boat and hanging around for several hours with a seaway running takes some courage. A bad situation, but I think Mark and the boys acquitted themselves with honor, which is the best you can hope for. The Chinese captain was probably completely baffled by a sailing vessel closing on him at 18 to 20 knots, probably from an unexpected direction. Most of the traffic around busy ports is in outbound and inbound lanes and is comparatively slow moving. This provides a great deal of predictability. A racing sailboat will come from a different angle and will change heading randomly ( at least to a non sailing observer.). A Volvo 65 is more like a flying saucer than any boat he has probably ever seen, it closed on him faster than he could believe and ran right over him. If he had gear out, his maneuverability was probably limited. "Here I am fishing where I usually fish, the way I usually fish. I'm just trying to do my fucking job and this space ship shows up out of nowhere , runs right the fuck over us, sinks my boat and kills one of my crew. What the fuck?" Hindsight is 20:20. But some of this could have been thought through. What value does an after midnight in port finish provide? During daylight it would be nice, but at 0dark30? My thought is that you should " finish racing" at the point where ships take on pilots, and have the race boats proceed to the dock under port control. You could require that they arrive in the order of their rank so all the spectacle is preserved...... but you don't have sportsmen competing where others are just going about their day : which is kind of like playing a football game in a crowded mall at Christmas time. SHC
  7. VOR Leg 4 Melbourne to Honkers

    If the conditions are as violent for Vestas and Dongfeng as they were for Scallywag, reaching into a steep head sea, breaking the boat out to the keel, my bet is that Charles and Franc are doing what they always do: keeping their left foot nailed to the floor and daring the boat to break. It often doesn't and they win, occasionally it does and "c'est la vie, the boat sucks." This is a gnarly part of the world. SHC
  8. Crossbow fl 2017

    I will be there supporting the ETS C Class team. They are testing their new platform, won't have foils, but there is lots to prove before they take flight. UFOs will fly through between othe gigs. You ought to move heaven and earth to take advantage of this opportunity, which really could not be more convenient. Demonstrating the boats in public is the best way to respond to criticism. It's how I do it. SHC I always wanted to BE Stuart Little. When I was a kid, one of my favorite things was to swim next to a model. With my eyes at water level I could really imagine that model I had designed and built was full size.
  9. Crossbow fl 2017

    Doug, Are you presenting your projects at Foiling Week in Miami next month. Would seem like a great opportunity very close to your home. SHC
  10. Crossbow fl 2017

    Oh, and by the way Doug, Fastyacht happens to be a professional Naval Architect and engineer currently employed in the field. So don't dis his fucking math skills. Peoples lives depend on him getting this shit right, and he can be held liable for mistakes. Tat was a dick thing to say. SHC
  11. Crossbow fl 2017

    Doug, there is a difference between "not getting it" and "not buying it." Not Getting it means that we don't perceive the merits of the concept, not buying it means that we believe there are significant structural and practical problems which we doubt can be solved in a satisfactory way. Regardless of my previous post, which ignored the sliding of the wing, I understand what you are trying to do, but I believe there are problems to which you either don't accept, refuse to recognize, or simply deny are problems. I guess it depends on the purpose of the exercise. Are you trying to design a product which can be sold and built in numbers? Are you just trying to prove a point or are you expecting us to cheer as you flog your dolphin on the internet. Boats with 14' beam are logistically difficult to manage. The Hobie Trifoiler and the Windrider Rave were limited as to where they could be launched and recovered. Most launching ramps are designed to accommodate boats that can be trailered without special permits. So just a bit over 8'. The C Class, at 14' is very restricted in where it can be based simply because the the boat is so wide. You cannot sail down in between the docks in a marina and have room to stop at the end. So beam, while an easy way to enhance stability, does not come without penalty in use. Fast Yacht and others have attempted to share their experience with a small boat that has a 7' long sliding seat which alternately extends 5' from each rail. These boats are trouble when the infrastructure isn't compatible with their characteristics. This can be as simple as the freeboard of the floats. But there are excellent sailing venues which are compatible with the IC simply because of the seat and the constraints it places on how we sail the boat. So I think your 14"+ proposed sliding wing will present use problems. I base this on experience with 14" wide catamarans , boats with sliding seats and boats with hiking racks. There are also structural problems with you wing system as you have described it. I think this is because you fundamentally don't understand how the IC seat works and why. The problem isn't holding the seat up, it is keeping it connected to the boat, The foundations of an IC seat carriage are significant and suitably massive to survive full impact with waves at 15+knots. This imparts a backward and upward moment into the structure which is not expected by novice engineers. If you expect the CrossbowFL to perform in the same realm as the IC, these moments will be much larger and more difficult to contain. It is not hard to imagine the tragic consequences of the wing rotating aft toward the sailor when the windward foundation sheers away. Finally there are things that don't scale very effectively because of the constraints of modeling. Absolute mass effects how you do things. The Moth launching techniques work because the boat is so light and small. The Waszp is the same size, but the additional; weight makes launching and recovering a totally different problem and introduces difficulties which don't affect the Moth, which in turn requires different compromises. My 50% bigger Moth had these problems, I could not hold the boat upright while swimming next to it because the rig was too tall and heavy and exceeded the buoyancy of my body and life jacket. On a Moth this dowesn't happen just because of the mass of the objects involved. So while models are very useful, they don't answer all questions. Any model which can be handled by a human being is hundreds of times stronger than the full size vessel will be simply because we can't actually scale structures unless we start breaking yarns of carbon fiber down. I actually have a useful suggestion which may appeal to you. It seems to me that after reading your posts for all these years that you really want to ride on one of your models. You are trying to design boats on which you can sit securely and still go like hell. I would venture to say that you are obsessed by this vision, but haven't been able to realize it for any number of reasons. Have you considered POV goggles like the drone guys use? This could make your sailing a more immersive experience (yuk yuk) and could possibly be used by other boat modelers. The drone races happen with POV goggles, why not sailing races? Suitably waterproofed with sight lines where you need them, could provide another whole dimension to thumb yachting. SHC
  12. I've had it with Rhode Island - Where to go?

    Go anywhere you want. In short order you will decide that place sucks too. Sure is terrible that you couldn't find place cheap enough to store your yacht in the first week of December. Crimea River. I have yet to see a place where the government isn't corrupt according to someone. In the US right now, the majority doesn't give a shit, and the rest are split 50:50 on irreconcilable, but irrelevant issues. Dysfunctistan. The majority want things to stay about as they were last week, because they know how that turned out, and it was OK even if it wasn't great. SHC
  13. Has the actual rule been published? SHC
  14. New to me V15

    Former builder and co designer here. Unsupported span of V15 mast section is questionable for more compression. Suggest you add lowers at or about goose neck height to stabilize lower panel. adding a clam cleat at the top of the mast for the main halyard and using a 2:1 jib halyard with clam cleat at hounds will also improve the situation. We didn't perfect these two things until after the V-15, but both are easy and improve the performance of masts with external halyards by removing the compression of the halyard fall from the equation. Students and keen observers may notice that the Club 420, Junior and V 15 masts mast ends differently on port than on starboard because of the jib halyard. The king post question can be avoided by moving the mast but full aft in the step. This transfers the compression load straight into the bulkhead where it belongs and makes the king post act like a gusset, which is what it was intended to be. The "tuning" of the V-15 evolved with the mast as far forward as you could get it. This in turn was caused by some brain box at Vanguard deciding that they could use 420 and junior length spreaders on a V-15 and make life easier on themselves. Neal Fowler and I had spent about a week testing different spreaders to get it right, and it wasn't until a bunch of fore decks had been crushed and a triggered a redesign of the mast step that I caught 6the source of the problem. But at that point it was too late. It took the clkass about 2 years to revese the spec on the spreaders, but the tuning never reflected this.So move the mast to the back end of the step. When sailing the warning signal will be the mast at spreader height pumping in the direction of the jib ( forward and to leeward.) . The mechanics of this are: the trapeze34 unloads the windward shroud because t56he angle of the crew on the trap is greater than the angle of the shroud. This means that the spreaders have nothing to push against, and are thereby not doing anything. On super stiff 505s and I 14s you can get away with this because the leeward shroud doesn't go slack, but that isn't going to happen on a gumby like the V-15 ( which were engineered to be just barely stiff enough) , so you need to add support to the lower panel to keep it in column. Keep your eyes open and you should be OK. SHC
  15. What IS Keel Pin Axis Incline Angle?

    You also need to examine how the fore and aft trim changes with heel. Volvo boats, and there's which carry the maximum beam well aft, effectively trim bow down as they heel. The inclined waterplane centerline is not parallel to the upright centerline. The extreme Open 60s are sort of triangular boats, with one bow and two sterns. The inclination of the keel pix axis compensates for some of this. SHC