• Announcements

    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

Dimi

Members
  • Content count

    11
  • Joined

  • Last visited

About Dimi

  • Rank
    Newbie

Profile Information

  • Location
    Switzerland
  • Interests
    Sailing
  1. Thank you Kristian!
  2. You got me wrong, I meant that the hull shape is NOT taken into account with the SRS-rating and therefore the SSC with its modern hullshape would have an advantage. Regarding weight the rules define that the engine and the batteries as well as cushions and any fixed equipment has to be included. If you are interested in an english translation see the attached rules: SRS_Mesures_Procedures_2012 (1).pdf
  3. Thanks a lot Kristian, Would you mind uploading the numbers you filled in the form? I understand you inserted 1300 kg instead of 1150, for what did you add 150kg (basically just the mainsail is included in weight) ? 1.113 is the rating of the Onyx-boats. It also means that you owe time to the Esse 850, which is going to be tough. I doubt the SSC can follow them upwind and you owe them time, which means you have to be really fast downwind. I would have hoped that the modern hull shape of the SSC would not be taken in account and the other parameters given a lower rating. It is astonishing that the rating for the SSC is higher than the Esse 850 which is a pure inshore racing boat, which is longer, lighter and has the same sail area upwind, with probably a higher mast and a smaller genoa/jib. Having said that I absolutely agree with what Chrisitan said about the one design class. Dimi
  4. http://t780.blogspot.com - https://www.swissrat...000A7BE&mod=dsp TocToc, If you look at page 8 of the measurement instructions about TLW, you will notice that there are two "bowsprit", one used for upwind (labelled as "bout-dehors pour le près" in the drawing which stems from the original instruction issued in french) and one for downwind. I admit that the drawing talks about "tangon rétracté au maximum (coulissant)", which means pulled in to the maximum (sliding), which would speak in your favour. However, I think this does not make much sense, since almost all retractable bowsprits can be completely retracted into the bow. I also asked the head of the measurement committee who confirmed my view orally over the phone. As regards the comparables for Esse 850 and T-boat it appears that for the Esse TLW and LOA are the same, which would mean that the Esse has a bowsprit of max. 1m; however for the t-boat TLW is greater than LOA (probably due to a quite long bowsprit). Accordingly these measure would not be against my interpretation. In any case if Kristian fills in all the other figures and if we know the length of the bowsprit and the appended rudderblades this parameter can be amended once we have certainty on this point. Dimi The Esse 850 prod sticks out 1.9 m past J so at least 1.8m past the bow Ok, I will check this TLW / LOA issue with our local measurement committee-guys. You are probably right, the original text of the rules speaks in your favour: "TLW: Longueur d'encombrement sur l'eau, en configuration de navigation au prés, mesurée du point le plus avancé de tout élément du bateau au point le plus en arrière (incluant tous les éléments telles que safran, jupe, balcon, bout-dehors rentré, etc…) à l’exception exclusive du moteur hors-bord qui ne compte pas dans la mesure de TLW. Il est toutefois fortement recommandé de le retirer afin de réduire les risques de contact du à l’augmentation du rayon d’évitement. Une tolérance de 1.0 mètre est admise pour autant que les extensions ne contribuent pas à une augmentation de la performance du bateau (pataras ou bastaque cachée par exemple), autrement la valeur de LOA doit être adaptée en conséquence. Les éléments mobiles utilisés pour la navigation au vent arrière dépassant de LOA ne peuvent être mise en place que si une voile de vent arrière est établie et doivent être rentré immédiatement après avoir affalée celle-ci. S'ils restent en position, ils doivent être considérés comme faisant partie de TLW."
  5. http://t780.blogspot.com - https://www.swissrat...000A7BE&mod=dsp TocToc, If you look at page 8 of the measurement instructions about TLW, you will notice that there are two "bowsprit", one used for upwind (labelled as "bout-dehors pour le près" in the drawing which stems from the original instruction issued in french) and one for downwind. I admit that the drawing talks about "tangon rétracté au maximum (coulissant)", which means pulled in to the maximum (sliding), which would speak in your favour. However, I think this does not make much sense, since almost all retractable bowsprits can be completely retracted into the bow. I also asked the head of the measurement committee who confirmed my view orally over the phone. As regards the comparables for Esse 850 and T-boat it appears that for the Esse TLW and LOA are the same, which would mean that the Esse has a bowsprit of max. 1m; however for the t-boat TLW is greater than LOA (probably due to a quite long bowsprit). Accordingly these measure would not be against my interpretation. In any case if Kristian fills in all the other figures and if we know the length of the bowsprit and the appended rudderblades this parameter can be amended once we have certainty on this point. Dimi The Esse 850 prod sticks out 1.9 m past J so at least 1.8m past the bow Ok, I will check this TLW / LOA issue with our local measurement committee-guys.
  6. Hi alsi, I agree that SRS is not a very sophisticated tool to compare the performance, but if you are racing in a handicap fleet using this formula (like we do on the "Vierwaldstättersee" ) this is what counts. Till a SSC one design class has established with races in Switzerland (and perhaps neighboring countries) it will take quite a time (if it becomes once reality at all...). Having said that, of course I hope SSC will have such a success to have a large fleet and and active one design class; but in the end there are not many boats which managed to get there during the last decades. Hi Dimi, with slow wind, it does not matter if you start in ORC Club, SRS or YST. With a few exceptions (eg X99, Onixe) fit all the values to each other well. But those who want to do a high-profile event, as many clubs strive, because does not fit a rating system like YST and SRS. I mean really, the SSC27 is for years the first yacht that has the potential to make a great one design class. But not only the boat is important for a functioning class. Much will also depend from that what the class association organizes. Because many classes are failed about that. I agree, let's hope that SSC will become a great one design class!
  7. Hi alsi, I agree that SRS is not a very sophisticated tool to compare the performance, but if you are racing in a handicap fleet using this formula (like we do on the "Vierwaldstättersee" ) this is what counts. Till a SSC one design class has established with races in Switzerland (and perhaps neighboring countries) it will take quite a time (if it becomes once reality at all...). Having said that, of course I hope SSC will have such a success to have a large fleet and and active one design class; but in the end there are not many boats which managed to get there during the last decades.
  8. http://t780.blogspot.com - https://www.swissrat...000A7BE&mod=dsp TocToc, If you look at page 8 of the measurement instructions about TLW, you will notice that there are two "bowsprit", one used for upwind (labelled as "bout-dehors pour le près" in the drawing which stems from the original instruction issued in french) and one for downwind. I admit that the drawing talks about "tangon rétracté au maximum (coulissant)", which means pulled in to the maximum (sliding), which would speak in your favour. However, I think this does not make much sense, since almost all retractable bowsprits can be completely retracted into the bow. I also asked the head of the measurement committee who confirmed my view orally over the phone. As regards the comparables for Esse 850 and T-boat it appears that for the Esse TLW and LOA are the same, which would mean that the Esse has a bowsprit of max. 1m; however for the t-boat TLW is greater than LOA (probably due to a quite long bowsprit). Accordingly these measure would not be against my interpretation. In any case if Kristian fills in all the other figures and if we know the length of the bowsprit and the appended rudderblades this parameter can be amended once we have certainty on this point. Dimi
  9. Dear Kristian, you have to be careful with the decimal separators, on my system (PC Windows) I have to put dots and not commas (8.00 and not 8,00). Thank you anyway. Regarding the length you have to be careful I attach a pdf copy of the instructions since this is a little bit tricky: LOA: The bowsprit is only to be taken into consideration if used for upwind sails (which is not the case for the seascape) FO: the same holds true for FO (without bowsprit in the case od seascape) TLW: is to be measured from the end of the rudder to the end of the bowsprit (extended); should the difference between TLW and LOA be more than 1 meter (normally an error message pops up in this case), the LOA has to be increased till the TLW is only 1 meter longer. I admit it is a bit cumbersome, but that's the only chance to compete with a handicap system for the moment; ORC-Club is disappearing. Measurement instructions:SRS Vermessungsregeln Kompatibilitätsmodus.pdf
  10. @Kristian, LST and Philen, When talking about the performance it is also important - in handicap fleets - to consider the rating. Since in Switzerland the so-called SRS-formula is becoming the prevalent rating formula, it would be very interesting to know the rating. If Kristian or someone at Seascape would have some time (during the long winter...) to fill out the form at the following link http://www.swissrati...f/SrsJauTst.xsp (which has nice pictures to explain) and then make a screenshot and push the button "compute SRS-rating" we would be settled on this one. Dear Kristian or whoever, thanks a lot in advance! Dimi So out of curiosity and for comparison, what does the Esse 850 and a Melges 24 rate in the SRS formula? The Esse 850 is 1.105 and the Melges 24 1.044, meaning the Esse 850 owes quite some time to the Melges 24.
  11. @Kristian, LST and Philen, When talking about the performance it is also important - in handicap fleets - to consider the rating. Since in Switzerland the so-called SRS-formula is becoming the prevalent rating formula, it would be very interesting to know the rating. If Kristian or someone at Seascape would have some time (during the long winter...) to fill out the form at the following link http://www.swissratingsystem.org/app/srs/srs2012.nsf/SrsJauTst.xsp (which has nice pictures to explain) and then make a screenshot and push the button "compute SRS-rating" we would be settled on this one. Dear Kristian or whoever, thanks a lot in advance! Dimi