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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Dimi

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About Dimi

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    Switzerland
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    Sailing
  1. Thank you Kristian!
  2. You got me wrong, I meant that the hull shape is NOT taken into account with the SRS-rating and therefore the SSC with its modern hullshape would have an advantage. Regarding weight the rules define that the engine and the batteries as well as cushions and any fixed equipment has to be included. If you are interested in an english translation see the attached rules: SRS_Mesures_Procedures_2012 (1).pdf
  3. Thanks a lot Kristian, Would you mind uploading the numbers you filled in the form? I understand you inserted 1300 kg instead of 1150, for what did you add 150kg (basically just the mainsail is included in weight) ? 1.113 is the rating of the Onyx-boats. It also means that you owe time to the Esse 850, which is going to be tough. I doubt the SSC can follow them upwind and you owe them time, which means you have to be really fast downwind. I would have hoped that the modern hull shape of the SSC would not be taken in account and the other parameters given a lower rating. It is astonishing that the rating for the SSC is higher than the Esse 850 which is a pure inshore racing boat, which is longer, lighter and has the same sail area upwind, with probably a higher mast and a smaller genoa/jib. Having said that I absolutely agree with what Chrisitan said about the one design class. Dimi
  4. http://t780.blogspot.com - https://www.swissrat...000A7BE&mod=dsp TocToc, If you look at page 8 of the measurement instructions about TLW, you will notice that there are two "bowsprit", one used for upwind (labelled as "bout-dehors pour le près" in the drawing which stems from the original instruction issued in french) and one for downwind. I admit that the drawing talks about "tangon rétracté au maximum (coulissant)", which means pulled in to the maximum (sliding), which would speak in your favour. However, I think this does not make much sense, since almost all retractable bowsprits can be completely retracted into the bow. I also asked the head of the measurement committee who confirmed my view orally over the phone. As regards the comparables for Esse 850 and T-boat it appears that for the Esse TLW and LOA are the same, which would mean that the Esse has a bowsprit of max. 1m; however for the t-boat TLW is greater than LOA (probably due to a quite long bowsprit). Accordingly these measure would not be against my interpretation. In any case if Kristian fills in all the other figures and if we know the length of the bowsprit and the appended rudderblades this parameter can be amended once we have certainty on this point. Dimi The Esse 850 prod sticks out 1.9 m past J so at least 1.8m past the bow Ok, I will check this TLW / LOA issue with our local measurement committee-guys. You are probably right, the original text of the rules speaks in your favour: "TLW: Longueur d'encombrement sur l'eau, en configuration de navigation au prés, mesurée du point le plus avancé de tout élément du bateau au point le plus en arrière (incluant tous les éléments telles que safran, jupe, balcon, bout-dehors rentré, etc…) à l’exception exclusive du moteur hors-bord qui ne compte pas dans la mesure de TLW. Il est toutefois fortement recommandé de le retirer afin de réduire les risques de contact du à l’augmentation du rayon d’évitement. Une tolérance de 1.0 mètre est admise pour autant que les extensions ne contribuent pas à une augmentation de la performance du bateau (pataras ou bastaque cachée par exemple), autrement la valeur de LOA doit être adaptée en conséquence. Les éléments mobiles utilisés pour la navigation au vent arrière dépassant de LOA ne peuvent être mise en place que si une voile de vent arrière est établie et doivent être rentré immédiatement après avoir affalée celle-ci. S'ils restent en position, ils doivent être considérés comme faisant partie de TLW."
  5. http://t780.blogspot.com - https://www.swissrat...000A7BE&mod=dsp TocToc, If you look at page 8 of the measurement instructions about TLW, you will notice that there are two "bowsprit", one used for upwind (labelled as "bout-dehors pour le près" in the drawing which stems from the original instruction issued in french) and one for downwind. I admit that the drawing talks about "tangon rétracté au maximum (coulissant)", which means pulled in to the maximum (sliding), which would speak in your favour. However, I think this does not make much sense, since almost all retractable bowsprits can be completely retracted into the bow. I also asked the head of the measurement committee who confirmed my view orally over the phone. As regards the comparables for Esse 850 and T-boat it appears that for the Esse TLW and LOA are the same, which would mean that the Esse has a bowsprit of max. 1m; however for the t-boat TLW is greater than LOA (probably due to a quite long bowsprit). Accordingly these measure would not be against my interpretation. In any case if Kristian fills in all the other figures and if we know the length of the bowsprit and the appended rudderblades this parameter can be amended once we have certainty on this point. Dimi The Esse 850 prod sticks out 1.9 m past J so at least 1.8m past the bow Ok, I will check this TLW / LOA issue with our local measurement committee-guys.
  6. Hi alsi, I agree that SRS is not a very sophisticated tool to compare the performance, but if you are racing in a handicap fleet using this formula (like we do on the "Vierwaldstättersee" ) this is what counts. Till a SSC one design class has established with races in Switzerland (and perhaps neighboring countries) it will take quite a time (if it becomes once reality at all...). Having said that, of course I hope SSC will have such a success to have a large fleet and and active one design class; but in the end there are not many boats which managed to get there during the last decades. Hi Dimi, with slow wind, it does not matter if you start in ORC Club, SRS or YST. With a few exceptions (eg X99, Onixe) fit all the values to each other well. But those who want to do a high-profile event, as many clubs strive, because does not fit a rating system like YST and SRS. I mean really, the SSC27 is for years the first yacht that has the potential to make a great one design class. But not only the boat is important for a functioning class. Much will also depend from that what the class association organizes. Because many classes are failed about that. I agree, let's hope that SSC will become a great one design class!
  7. Hi alsi, I agree that SRS is not a very sophisticated tool to compare the performance, but if you are racing in a handicap fleet using this formula (like we do on the "Vierwaldstättersee" ) this is what counts. Till a SSC one design class has established with races in Switzerland (and perhaps neighboring countries) it will take quite a time (if it becomes once reality at all...). Having said that, of course I hope SSC will have such a success to have a large fleet and and active one design class; but in the end there are not many boats which managed to get there during the last decades.
  8. http://t780.blogspot.com - https://www.swissrat...000A7BE&mod=dsp TocToc, If you look at page 8 of the measurement instructions about TLW, you will notice that there are two "bowsprit", one used for upwind (labelled as "bout-dehors pour le près" in the drawing which stems from the original instruction issued in french) and one for downwind. I admit that the drawing talks about "tangon rétracté au maximum (coulissant)", which means pulled in to the maximum (sliding), which would speak in your favour. However, I think this does not make much sense, since almost all retractable bowsprits can be completely retracted into the bow. I also asked the head of the measurement committee who confirmed my view orally over the phone. As regards the comparables for Esse 850 and T-boat it appears that for the Esse TLW and LOA are the same, which would mean that the Esse has a bowsprit of max. 1m; however for the t-boat TLW is greater than LOA (probably due to a quite long bowsprit). Accordingly these measure would not be against my interpretation. In any case if Kristian fills in all the other figures and if we know the length of the bowsprit and the appended rudderblades this parameter can be amended once we have certainty on this point. Dimi
  9. Dear Kristian, you have to be careful with the decimal separators, on my system (PC Windows) I have to put dots and not commas (8.00 and not 8,00). Thank you anyway. Regarding the length you have to be careful I attach a pdf copy of the instructions since this is a little bit tricky: LOA: The bowsprit is only to be taken into consideration if used for upwind sails (which is not the case for the seascape) FO: the same holds true for FO (without bowsprit in the case od seascape) TLW: is to be measured from the end of the rudder to the end of the bowsprit (extended); should the difference between TLW and LOA be more than 1 meter (normally an error message pops up in this case), the LOA has to be increased till the TLW is only 1 meter longer. I admit it is a bit cumbersome, but that's the only chance to compete with a handicap system for the moment; ORC-Club is disappearing. Measurement instructions:SRS Vermessungsregeln Kompatibilitätsmodus.pdf
  10. @Kristian, LST and Philen, When talking about the performance it is also important - in handicap fleets - to consider the rating. Since in Switzerland the so-called SRS-formula is becoming the prevalent rating formula, it would be very interesting to know the rating. If Kristian or someone at Seascape would have some time (during the long winter...) to fill out the form at the following link http://www.swissrati...f/SrsJauTst.xsp (which has nice pictures to explain) and then make a screenshot and push the button "compute SRS-rating" we would be settled on this one. Dear Kristian or whoever, thanks a lot in advance! Dimi So out of curiosity and for comparison, what does the Esse 850 and a Melges 24 rate in the SRS formula? The Esse 850 is 1.105 and the Melges 24 1.044, meaning the Esse 850 owes quite some time to the Melges 24.
  11. @Kristian, LST and Philen, When talking about the performance it is also important - in handicap fleets - to consider the rating. Since in Switzerland the so-called SRS-formula is becoming the prevalent rating formula, it would be very interesting to know the rating. If Kristian or someone at Seascape would have some time (during the long winter...) to fill out the form at the following link http://www.swissratingsystem.org/app/srs/srs2012.nsf/SrsJauTst.xsp (which has nice pictures to explain) and then make a screenshot and push the button "compute SRS-rating" we would be settled on this one. Dear Kristian or whoever, thanks a lot in advance! Dimi