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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Phil S

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  1. Depends what you want to do:
  2. Foiling Moth Setup

    Classic sequence of what happens when the foils get too close to the water surface:
  3. Foiling Moth Setup

    Yes, Mach2 has three positions for the cb but BR has a fixed position. But the foil angle to the water can be slightly adjusted with 1mm packing in front or back of the socket joint between foil and cb. Most people set and forget with about 1deg AOA relative to the take off waterline, near enough to the bottom of the boat at the cb case. The modern rudders have the top gudgeon as a sliding slug inside the tiller, twisting the tiller extension adjusts a screw mechanism which moves the slog for and aft to change the pitch of the whole rudder. Most gantries also have a fine tune adjustment which is set and forget. You need about 2deg adjustment +ve and -ve wrt to the waterline datum above to trim the boat for different conditions. Slightly bow up in light upwind and also downwind in waves, slighly bow down upwind once going fast. Both CB and rudder have forward rake to reduce the chance of air entrainment down the leading edge. What people call the ride height adjuster is simply a rigging screw type adjuster for the deck pushrod. It has a roller with an endless line going out to each wing. It controls the relative positions of the flap and wand. Shorten it and the wand goes back for a set flap angle. Wand back will lower height, and soften the ride. Wand forward will raise height and make responses bumpy, becasue the wand moves through more angle for less height variation. It does not adjust the rate of response, that is set by the relative lengths of the bellcrank and wand holder pushrod attachment points. Having all these points at the close to 90deg to the pushrods is also important. Rig the boat on its side and check this with the flap neutral and the wand back at 45deg. For example if the pushrod in the cb is too short the bellcrank will be tilted back and you will not get enough down flap movement. Same problem if the pushrod attachment to the wand holder is back too far. Lots of these things can be wrong if a boat has passed through several owners without good moth knowledge. Telescopic wands are the next important option. Shotenning the wand in big waves is the safest way to go. Again the lines go out to each wing. The wand is pulled downward by a shockcord, either on the wand extension above the pivot known as May stick, or lately from a bellcrank extension forward. The size and load on this shockcord also affects the resonse. It has to be powerful to pull the wand forward without delay, agaisnt the wind. Any friction in the system will demand more power and delay response. Friction is your enemy. Until you start sailing your moth and competing in races you do not need to know about other controls, best look and learn from other experienced moh sailors.
  4. Foiling Moth Setup

    If you have a flap on the rear foil you have very old equipment, last seen on early Prowlers over 10 years ago. The rudder foil flap does allow some pitch trimming, but only fine adjustments. With this system its vital the the gantry is set at the right angle so that the boats mostly flys level with the flap in neutral. You should not need to retrim the rudder for take off. And you should not need to move body weight for take off either. The wand and main flap should do all this for you, once everything is set up to fly properly. 10 years ago the logic was to apply up flap on the rudder to raise the bow and take off. Now the main foil works better with slight +ve angle of attack and moderate down flap. If your boat is old enough to have a rudder flap, it may also atill have an old main foil with a small flap and thick section. And it may be mounted at zero angle of attack. This will make things difficult for you. You could increase the angle of attack but the small flap will mean much reduced control, not only at take off but in the waves you are expecting. Best option/control for waves is agressive gearing and a shorter wand. If your controls are dubious, very short, to the extent the hull hits quite a few wave tops. After that is good steering to avoid the biggest pot holes.
  5. Pond Sailing for Practice?

    Best check if its deep enough before buying something with too much draft. I have seen ponds like that which were not deep enough for Radio Control boats. Also if there is weed growing from the bottom which would be shallow enoiughb to fouly the CB.
  6. Foiling Moth Setup

    Transporting a moth is not a big issue. Storing it is a smaller issue than most bigger boats. What really matters is whether you are the right person for a moth. This might help, in order of need: 1. You need to want to sail a fast, small foiling boat, and be prepared to work on it. 2. You need enough agility to get started from the capsized boat. This means judging the exact moment to throw a leg over the wing and scamble on board as the boat comes upright, then grab the mainsheet and get the boat moving forward. 3. You have to have enough natural balance to sail the boat as a low rider, at under 8kts and with a 350mm waterline beam. Experience balancing body weight against the sail helps, sailboard style. 4. Some good boat handling skills. If you can get a Laser around a full race in over 20kts without a swim, you are well on the way. If you serial swim a laser in 15kts you might not be the right person. 5. Quickly gain a good understand the basics of foiling, the moth control system and have the aptitude to reconise when something is wrong and make adjustments on the run. 6. Some practical skills to fix and repair some items which you will break in the learning process, from having poor settings or just from clumbsy falls. Metal work, carbon/epoxy work, and lots of rope work. 7. Best also have a desire to seek out and learn from people who have already been down the path. All mothies are helpful, even the very top guys at the worlds will give you their time if you ask good questions. 8. Recognose that not all moths are the same, its not a one design class. Everyone has things they do differently from others. Learn from as many people as possible and adopt the ideas which suit yourself. 9. Its a development class so technology moves pretty fast, do not expect that your recent purchase will have the latest of everything. 10. If you want to race at the top of the fleet be prepared to keep upgrading gear. But if that's too costly for you, just enjoy the thrill of moth racing from back in the fleet, where the results matter a lot less but the racing is just as exciting. Hope to see you at regattas soon.
  7. Arm Fatigue

    So there ar big gains available for someone in Mustos when they work out a better technique for sail trimming. Trimming with the trap wire in the way is not impossible. Been there done that. We did it 43 years ago when I sailed this 12ft skiff, they were all 2 handers but both crew held a sheet, skipper trimmed main and steered and my crew trimmed the jib, easing jib in the biggest gusts so we could foot off and gain speed. Reduce the main purchase so that the diference between straight arm and bent elbow is enough ease to keep the boat flat, yes some steering is also needed but not enough to slow the boat. No other boats in the photo, they were behind us.
  8. Arm Fatigue

    Upwind especially properly sailed dinghys should be perfectly upright, or even healed slightly to windward. Like this pic of the 49ers at the London Olympics: To do this you need to keep the sheet moving. See gusts coming and anticipate when the sheet needs to be eased to maintain zero heal. There is absolutely zero form stability from the hull when saile this way. You can not sail this way with the sheet cleated. Anyone who argues otherwise disagrees with these guys who are the best skiff sailors in the world. wrt to the picture of the singlehanded skiff above. This guy would do much better to shorten his trap wires and sail the boat flat by playing the sheet.
  9. Foiling Moth Setup

    32kg fully rigged is what you lift into the water on your shoulder. Take off foils, mast and sail and it weighs maybe 20, then add 10 for the trolley and that 30kg is what you lift onto the car.
  10. Foiling Moth Setup

    Moth is 2.25m wide. Most countries allow 2.5m some 2.6m width on the road. A lot of Australian carry them on top of the car. But some juristriction and some police do not like the side overhangs. Trailering full width is normal practice. Unrig only the foils, mast and sail. Leave the boom rigged and tie it to the wings. 10minutes is easy trailer to water with practice and technique.
  11. Burville's moth: Photo was from 2000 Moth Worlds in Perth where it won 2 of the 12? races. The class rules long before banned "sailing as a multihull" and also specified that no longitudinal airgap exist under the boat while floating in the water. The boat got past a local measurer for the event. Subsequent class discussion decided that the foils must exit the hull below the static waterline to satisfy both rules. Although it was never further developed, the boat was way slower than the T foil boats from only a year or two later. Todays moths would be 50% faster both upwind and downwind. No one now lets the sail out that far, the apparent wind does not go that far aft. Multihull and AC designers persevere with similar configurations with continued poor control and dubious speed advantages compared to the tiny moths. But converting the moth T foil concept to a bigger boat seems unlikely due to happen due to lateral control issues and the consequences of a capsize.
  12. Arm Fatigue

    sail more often
  13. Onefly foiler

    Sort of logical except that with so many moths built since foiling was perfected, there are heaps of very cheap out of date moths around most of which will sail circles around a Waszp (and maybe a OneFly) at half the price. Plenty of people enjoying cheap moth sailing with old boats and occasional upgrades with hand me down foils and rigs. They even have estabished local moth fleets to race with and learn from. People with one design myopathy excluded.
  14. Onefly foiler

    Onefly (and IFly before) looks like another nice boat. Being bigger than a moth might solve a few control issues but it makes it heavier. Absence of gantry and sprit make the hull simpler and easier to produce. The rig looks superior to the WASZP but its area is smaller than a moth so the boat is unlikely to fly earlier especially with larger people on board. At 50kg is not going to be carried sideways like a moth, so launching followed by foil attachment will be a problem is some locations. How its priced will be important. That depends on the detail design and component count. Using aluminium for cheapness is not always logical, the WASZP for instance has 18 components in the wings to get the strength in the right places. Moths have 6 because carbon strength can be tapered in production. If OneFly have done a simpler design they might get it down to WASZP price in which case there will be competition, If its more expensive than a WASZP sales will be limited. Both boats will always be much slower than a moth and as we have already seen with WASZPs, a lot of people learn to foil, think they are good until they line up with a moth, then want to switch boats. Good for the moth class.
  15. Bye bye Artemis Racing

    Very simple answer to this one: Their parents, coaches, sponsors and national sailing organisations all say that fast classes are not the path to Olympic medals. Ironically what is very interestimg is the number who, once they have achieved medals, and professional sailing contracts, then who come to moth worlds for their recreation time off work. Its obvious what the pros want to be sailing.