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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

nolatom

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  1. After this awful collision, I had wondered why no one had posted the vessel tracklines into collision, since AIS transmits that info to other traffic, as well as to commercial vessel tracking services (e.g. Marine Traffic). Finally, an article from WSJ pointing out this was an area of spotty or missing AIS coverage. One maritime observer thinks the absence of transponder data means something fishy was up with (both?) ships: http://maritimebulletin.net/2018/01/14/sanchi-tragedy-wsj-searching-for-something-hot-and-fishy/ I doubt it, these were two ships evidently still underway on open-sea voyages north (Sanchi approaching S. Korea from Iran) and west (Crystal heading west toward China with grain from US west coast). Which indicates a crossing situation, with Crystal on the right. Lack of AIS (if true) would mean no vessel name on your E-chart or radar overlay. Okay, that puts them back into the technology of the 1990s, meaning radar (with automatic target plotting, if you use it) and visual lookout. What went wrong? We will only hear from one side, since Sanchi, and most regrettably her crew, are both gone. Crystal's Voyage Data Recorder will probably fill in the details, as it would record the radar screen. Are there areas we know of in our sailing lives where AIS is unavailable or unreceivable? This sounds strange.
  2. Rules of the "Road"

    You talking just racing rules, or the Colregs too? I can see where local racing rules or sailing instructions should keep the 40-knotters from foiling into the Optis. But (just my opinion) the existing Colregs are doing all right at handling very fast motor vessels vis a vis small slow-speed craft--Rule 6, "safe speed" deals with that in some detail. No different for sailing vessels. The racing rules don't really deal with "safe speed". Should they? The point is to go as fast as we can, so not likely. That's why course or time separation is essential. Sometimes mother nature screws up the best plans, though, and mixes fleets that shouldn't be mixed.
  3. Is the US Navy doing Navigation Seminars now?

    The thing is, in many collisions, if all the navigators on both ships had walked off the bridge 10 minutes prior, they wouldn't have collided. It's when they begin to make evasive movements too late, fake each other out, and "turn into" each other rather than away, and can't recover because it's too late and there's no room left to correct it. That's not to say empty wheelhouse is a good idea. Other times timely action saves the day. But a collision in open water with no other vessels nearby, suggests someone wasn't paying attention. We'll find out in due course. I was just wondering if there was a site showing their AIS-based tracklines as they approached each other. What little the destinations of each, and wreck photos show, suggests a crossing situation with bulker on the right of the tanker.
  4. Is the US Navy doing Navigation Seminars now?

    Photos appear to show tanker SANCHI listing to starboard, which could indicate having been struck, and holed, on her starboard side. https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=tanker+sanchi+ablaze+photo&qpvt=tanker+sanchi+ablaze+photo&FORM=IGRE And damage to CRYSTAL described as moderate, which may mean Crystal's bow t-boned Sanchi. This would be roughly consistent with the voyages each were on, unless of course either or both altered course before impact. So this is half WAG and half semi-SWAG on my part. Wondering if anyone has seen any AIS-based tracklines of the vessels leading up to collision. Hope they find some survivors, but does not look good.
  5. Why the tie?

    Okay, I'll try, since I do wear them about half of the time, for work. You get treated better at stores, on planes, and just generally. Warmer in winter, I can't carry off the hipster top-button buttoned look Handy eyeglasses cleaner They cover up stains along the button-line of your shirt They make good tourniquets if someone's bleeding out??
  6. Don't impede the regatta (rowers)

    No you didn't......
  7. Is the US Navy doing Navigation Seminars now?

    Anyone know what the tracklines into collision were? Tanker sailing from Iran to South Korea would be sailing generally north. Container ship from Pacific Northwest of US with grain for China, would be sailing generally west or southwest. This was open water so not in or near a traffic zone as were the two Navy/ship collisions.
  8. Don't impede the regatta (rowers)

    Why'd you guys have to hit the hornets nest after things had finally quieted down? It was a closed enough loop....
  9. why am i here?

    Back in dinosaur days, racing Beverly dinghys at Brown, mast fell down (metal deck collar was only mast support, and unknown to this visitor, they liked to just work loose when they felt like it).
  10. Don't impede the regatta (rowers)

    If it puts this to rest, then sure.
  11. Don't impede the regatta (rowers)

    You had three questions, hombre. 1) Was I serious? yes. 2 Name other vessels that aren't included in the rule 18 rankings, aside from rowboats? Done. You may not have liked it, but they exist. And aren't mentioned by type or name in the Rules. 3) Was I "now claiming" rowboats are sailing vessels? No, and reason given. I shall leave the grading of both of us to others. You might consider that as well. Since you brought up the rules of 400 years ago (or 300 or 250 for that matter, before external or internal combustion engine machinery), what did those rules say about sail versus oars, since those were the only two choices back then? Which stood-on and which give-way?
  12. Don't impede the regatta (rowers)

    Seriously. Others? Surfboards? rafts? Basically nondescript "no-account" craft, low-speed, little or no commercial involvement, forgettable to the drafters. Not claiming it's a sailing vessel since no sail, but being allowed to carry sail lights militates against it being a power-driven vessel. If the drafters had thought as you contend, they'd have prescribed/allowed that lighting configuration, instead of sailing-vessel lights.
  13. I'm 68, and weigh 145. 12,000 for me ;-)
  14. To answer the unasked question, "why *else* is over X-amount of sail area too much to singlehand, "because it will tend to be on a boat that's too heavy and large for you to dock/undock/anchor/heave anchor even if electric winches can arguably make sail setting, dousing, and trim doable" Once you get past what, 12,000 pounds, it's too much to manhandle in a slip when you need to, especially sans bow thruster, or with a midship prop with twin rudders that aren't near said prop, so no "stern thruster-'kick'" capability. There's a reason ships have shoreside linehandlers at most docks.
  15. Don't impede the regatta (rowers)

    Yet they are specifically mentioned in the lighting rule, as "vessel under oars", and given the same light display as a....... sailboat. No "steaming light" showing forward. You're giving the drafters too much credit. In terms or steering and sailing rules, they likely just didn't think "rowboats" rated a ranking in the "responsibilities between vessels" rule, at least in daylight. Or just didn't think about it at all, except to specify that they shall be lighted at night, though not as a power-driven vessel.