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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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About nige

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  • Birthday 01/01/2006

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    Friday Harbor, WA

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  1. Sailors Powerboat

    Funny - I get the opposite conclusion from the navy’s collisions! (only half joking)
  2. Sailors Powerboat

    Because they are high enough out of the water... that tri has amazingly similar hull length/beam, main hull to ama, ama volume to main hull volume and cross beam locations to my 24ft tri.
  3. Sailors Powerboat

    I’m excited! Not that I can afford that, but the direction and speed of progress will likely mean it’s feasible and (to each his own) affordable in the not too distant future... the silence and and lack of vibration creates SUCH a different experience.
  4. Sailors Powerboat

    These are large internal banks, torqueedo isn’t just small outboards... no idea idea what the regulations are but this is the stuff I’d be looking for if I was purchasing. id imagine any decent mfr will too? if the regulations aren’t there now, they will be but obviously it’s been thought about.
  5. Sailors Powerboat

    All stored energy is dangerous right? How many boat fires/explosions are caused by propane or gas? I'd love to not have gas on my boat for many reasons. As the capacity and practicality become more feasible, the issue of "stored" energy safety will continue to be addressed. I have no practical experience with the torqueedo batteries, but we have been looking at them for a while for our boats. Im not rich enough get into that game quite yet though, or tolerate the decrease in range, but they appear to have put a lot of thought and development into the safety around flooding, and i'm excited about the possibility in 5, 10 or 20 years: "Waterproof Housing to IP67 Even if battery submersion should generally be avoided, all Torqeedo batteries are without exception completely waterproof and can withstand – in accordance with the definition of the IP67 standard – immersion at a depth of 1 m for at least 30 minutes without suffering any damage. The waterproof characteristics of each battery are individually tested in production prior to delivery." "Water Sensor If battery poles are under current when submerged, significant electrolysis will take place in saltwater in particular that is some 10,000 times faster than normal galvanic corrosion. This rapidly degrades the contacts and creates dangerous electrolytic gas. The integrated water sensor detects when a battery is submersed. In this case the battery switches off automatically, preventing electrolytic corrosion and the development of electrolytic gas." https://www.torqeedo.com/us/en-us/technology-and-environment/battery-technology.html https://www.torqeedo.com/us/en-us/products/batteries-1 Its obviously a concern but it would be something you looked at when choosing a manufacturer etc. (I assume electric cars have something similar as they must be designed to be safe if driven into the water of flooding etc? - Huge assumption but I'd be shocked if not)
  6. Sailors Powerboat

    what design is that?
  7. Sailors Powerboat

    Great post. There are a couple of other factors in that mix though - frontal area as much as total surface area for a given volume , and the beam to length ratio that both defines frontal area and plays a big part (positively and negatively) in the stability and pitching in anything other than flat water.
  8. Sailors Powerboat

    Its not an inconvenient truth, its just reality. You are certainly focused on this aspect but I think you are a very small percentage of any hypothetical market. As another poster wrote above, that is not the reason the vast majority of people interested in these types of boats will buy them. ROI is not the big driver, Its all emotional and personal, it about the style that fits you personally, what makes you feel good (whether that is reality or not). None of these boats IS the future, they are all potential stepping stones, at best. I put a ton of miles on these boats but have spent far more in each modification and upgrade than I save in fuel, its a project, its a goal, its a desire to see what you can do. In the same was as buying a production boat, people are not buying for actual nM/G numbers - they may be a fun talking point, but if someone is buying an efficient boat, its because they feel it aligns with their life choices (again, which may be completely misguided based on all their other life choices). I didn't get into these boats because I thought I'd save money, I got into them because as a racing sailor and design enthusiast, I just couldn't stand seeing all the equivalent boats out there digging big holes in the water, burning gas faster than i can pour it out of a jerry can and I wanted a boat that I felt went through the water in a way that put a smile on my face. I think that is the more common driver (in this niche of a niche market) than actual ROI numbers. That is not discounting your buying choices at all, you have your factors that drive your decisions, there are plenty of others too though.
  9. Sailors Powerboat

    A proper sailor should have an appropriate boat for each occasion/use? A dock full of them so you can make the decision on the day, depending on where you are going, what you are doing, what the weather is like and the sophistication level of the fluff in question....
  10. Sailors Powerboat

    Thats a beautiful boat! I'm sure there are plenty of people who buy them (and cheaper versions of similar concepts)... no argument there.... you just come across as saying there are no other options, for anyone, anywhere.... Just to be clear, I love my run about, it does almost everything I need it to, it has some great strengths, some significant weaknesses but nothing I haven't been able to plan around or that has stopped me doing something. It is certainly not for everyone. It wasn't built with the idea of selling it but we are considering the kits because, in person, it gets so much interest from people who watch it or have used it. That does not mean I'd ever expect it to be a large market, but I do think something like it has a niche in the power boat market (most likely the sailor end) that I'd love to see filled. I am interested in selling the kits or boats because I'd like to see more of these kinds of boats out there (all of them - the PT skiffs, Paul's commuter cat etc etc), not because I'm looking for a new business. At worst they are all just seeds of ideas for the eventual perfect boat
  11. Sailors Powerboat

    Good point!
  12. Sailors Powerboat

    I think where I struggle with your response is that you are describing a huge section of power boats that are already out there. This thread wasn't started to just list the standard power boats that already exist, so although "sailors power boat" is not defined, I assumed it meant something other than the norm. You are also stating personal choices as facts. Things aren't that black and white, each design feature has a pro and a con that may or may not be countered by other design choices. Most end up being valid for their use, you seem very clear on the predominant use in your area and it sounds like you have the right boats in mind but obviously there are lots of different uses. Some things you described are totally valid and would be listed in the "con" column when making a decision, some issues you are incorrectly projecting and are not the issue you assume them to be, some issues seem to be local to you. It would be dull if there was one perfect boat....
  13. Sailors Powerboat

    Well Russel is the source of truth for that config (I think his Skeeter with tornado hills was posted earlier in the thread) that at would be a cool but different boat - a couple of things - you need to get the pod above and away from the water and the sterns don’t have the volume to support outboards so you need to have a single outboard in the center and likely significantly forward of the stern etc. someone can correct me but I think Russel’s skeeter cruises at 17kts with a 15hp engine at great efficiency....
  14. Sailors Powerboat

    So I'm going to be guessing as we never weighted the boat after it was launched. The finished but unpainted hulls weighed about 250lbs. Engine - 120, fuel tank, controls, seats, etc etc etc. Conservatively the running weight of the boat was about 500lbs. me plus some personal stuff - conservative 750lbs. I dont have fuel flow data from that engine but I have done the same trip a large number of times to get a really good idea of the fuel use. Friday Harbor to Port townsend is exactly 30nm. I had a 2.5 gal fuel tank on that boat (For various silly reasons) and I'd make the one way trip with about an inch of fuel left in the tank - so worst case scenario if the tank actually held more than 2.5 gals, is 12mpg, but I think it was pretty close to 2.25 gals for the trip so 13.3 etc. The cat with the same outboards actually performed almost exactly the same - just two of them stuck together, so it has half the efficiency. The numbers for the tri though are what makes me want to build another version at some point with everything we learned.
  15. Sailors Powerboat

    Sorry, I wasn't planning to hijack this thread but I'll try to reply to everyone: ProaSailor - no, we are on the same page, I wasnt saying a single person either. I meant a builder with a team. Feel free to private message me any of those who you think would be able to build this in your price range. Maybe I'm missing some options. The only way I can see that working with great efficiency is either taking pre orders and setting up a production line or investment to setup a production line. I do not see the market being that big and have no intention to find/invest the kind of money needed to do that. My only other point - I have never said anything along the lines of that "worthy" quote you keep mentioning. I could not disagree with it more. olsurfer - Something along those lines would be an option as a kit, but its hard to get away from the number of hours needed to produce that, even efficiently. IStream and Veeger - I dream of the dayboat version, a sailors version of a cigarette boat But it would be ridiculous. We have drawn up a 32" version that is exactly what you are talking about - inboards, efficient at 12-15kts, cruiser with a head, small galley and a few berths. I dont think you need to go to 40ft although the lines look better the bigger you get, and everything gets more space - obviously. I dont think we had it to a stage where I can send renderings, but I'll chat with Brandon and see what I can post. I just talked to Brandon again this afternoon and we circled back round to full molds again, its hard to pick a level! But we still have a bunch of work to do before then anyway. I'll get in touch with anyone else about the scaled kits once we have the design nailed down. thanks for all the thoughts!