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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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About macca

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  1. I really liked the concept when Doug gave me a sneak peak well before the VOR tender even happened. Its clearly where we could end up in the future and I think the biggest issue in it becoming reality is the willingness of the customers to step this far from their comfort zone... The VOR concepts have been awesome to see as they get revealed, I hope we can let ours out of the bag soon. Ill be happy to post it here once its appropriate.
  2. FFS! They might as well just stick with a multihull....
  3. Bye bye Artemis Racing

    The point is: There is only one team per country and that team is managed/funded by that countries governing body for the sport. If you applied that same approach to sailing then you would have the NZ entry from Yachting NZ, US sailing would-be the USA one etc.
  4. Bye bye Artemis Racing

    Test Rugby internationals are funded by the national governing bodies of the respective countries.
  5. Bye bye Artemis Racing

    Nailed it! Commercial football of any code is played by teams made up of players and owners sourced in whatever way they choose. When it comes to nation V nation it is a true national government funded effort. That’s the only time a nationality rule is appropriate.
  6. I think the foils are just too big, thats what the designers were asked to do by the customer.... so its hard to resolve it. On the ventilation issues, I think a lot of it comes down to surface preparation. I saw a lot of teams running their foils without doing a whole lot of prep and that will indeed make a huge difference to the behavior. We have done a lot of work on the foil finish and I think we are very stable compared to others that have not. Additionally, there is a lot to be said for managing how much lift/load you put on the leeward foil. There are 4 lifting surfaces on the boat, you need to manage how much you expect each one to produce...
  7. Jason, Darren, Santi and many others all stated that changing to a foiling Nacra 17 was a mistake and that we would be better to go to 2020 with the old boat, sort the construction and then we are happy. Possibly consider some winglets on the rudders is what they all agreed was the most logical move. Not sure what they told you, but again in the last week in France I spoke to Bundy, Jason and Santi and there is no confusion about their thoughts on the matter, same for many others in the fleet. You are confusing yourself with build quality and quality control... its the same thing!!! The specification (the materials and where they are placed) was totally fine on the old boat. The problem was with build quality. You could have specified that they built the old boat in prepreg, nomex and with the way they were actually putting materials together on the old boat it would have still been a piece of shit. Thats the issue here, the actual materials were fine, it was the way in which it was put together that was a problem. By simply resolving that and not changing materials we would have been able to keep the existing fleet and not blow all the last 4 years investment in boats. Converting the old boats was a total farce, Some seemed ok, others were total dogs, and then to make it even more of a joke those boats will not be class legal next year. So they were useful for one regatta. Great investment.... yet another example of Nacra bullshitting to World Sailing and nobody in that organization knowing enough about it to call them on the bullshit. Kites upwind, Sorry, but if the boat was not such a pig due to it being fat and draggy then the kite would not be viable, certainly not up until 9kts windspeed which is simply insane. The boat now acts like a keelboat in light winds, it does not go faster, just load it up and go higher. Crew - male/female I have always stated that eventually we will see more female helms. the first cycle was dominated by male helms due to experience. It still seems that experience is a strong factor and now with the new boat the foils stay down all the time and this seems to have helped unload the crew work a bit. So its still fine for female crew, but in the same way that crew weights dropped over time with the 49er, we will see an evolution towards more male crews. On Nacra service, how about you ask Bundy or anyone at the event what they thought about Nacra bailing mid event. I don't mean to sound harsh, but i have just spent a month in France with the boats at the worlds and my overwhelming feeling afterwards is that we have another olympic cycle dealing with shit from a builder that may or may not care about the customers, but without doubt they do not have the ability to deliver what is required and they refuse to engage the help they need to make it happen.
  8. Lets get some facts sorted out- First: World Sailing made it clear that the Nacra would be foiling for 2020 whether the class voted for it or not. In much the same way that the Tornado rig was updated after the Sydney games. It was either the class agree or there would be another way they got it done. Secondly, you state that “nobody wanted them to leave the boats as they were” This is totally false. Many of the class members wanted to keep the boat the same for 2020, Both the Gold and Silver medalists from Rio went on record with very clear statements that they did not agree it was a good idea to change the boats. Next: Do not confuse build specification with build quality. There were some serious quality control issues with the old boats. The specification was perfectly adequate as is evidenced by the fact that some teams were lucky and had reliable boats that required no fixes. The rest of the boats in circulation at Olympic level had been fixed and were perfectly fine. The reality is that if Nacra had simply improved the quality of the existing specification boats then we would not have to literally throw 300 Nacra 17’s away because they changed entire boat. Whats left from the old boat? Mast, main, jib. That’s it….. It’s a new boat, it just happens to have the same hull shape as the last one. There are so many issues with the changes:- The upwind kite issue came around because they added more than 20kg and doubled the foil surface area, as a result it’s a pig in light airs. So you have teams looking for a way around that. A lot of people wanted (and still do) keep using the kite upwind. I actually support Nacra in their position that its not a good idea. Not only from the equipment issues such as kites lasting one regatta, masts beyond design load etc, But because it will push the crew weights up, and make female crews a thing of the past. Totally diluting the whole mixed sailing, either sex for the job ethos that WS was keen to achieve. Other issues, The foils are so big and draggy when its windy and wavy (so you fly lower) the boat feels like its got a bucket dragging. The rudder system weighs multiple times more than the test boat versions, they were carbon, the production ones are cast alloy and are so chunky its hard to imagine how they could be heavier. The rudder housing is literally hanging below the waterline, we have a new water feature on every transom as a result. It defies logic that this got past the first drawing stage, but here we are with a boat that’s meant to be used in the Olympics and they can’t even design the rudder housing so its not underwater. I could go on, the list is literally 4 pages long…. But perhaps the situation is best summed up by the fact that we had more than 1 million euro in new boats at the worlds, Nacra arrived with the service trailer the day before the event started and left without notice after 2 days. Given the delivery delays, equipment problems and the fact that Nacra are relying on their customers to do the product testing it’s the most tone deaf thing I’ve seen in the industry.
  9. World sailing have a guideline that says any new class for the games must be existing and proven etc. the fact that 80% of the nacra is new his time around seems to have been overlooked.
  10. You need to make the distance of the crew from leeward hull the same as the windward hull. By that I mean you should change the 2500 to 2175 because that's the more realistic crew position prior to going on trapeze. Nobody hikes on a boat that has trapeze, they sit on the side, or trapeze. That will give you a more accurate compression delta. And as as others have noted, the RM increase of trapezing comes with the package of increased sheet loads etc.
  11. Your maths needs to account for the increase in RM due to the crew weight being further outboard. As as a guide the compression increases by about 50% of the RM increase. So for sure the compression is higher with crew on trapeze.
  12. Bora gulari nacra 17 incident

    It was not the foil. It was traveller rope wrapped around hand. Big slow down when they came off the foils and stuck the nose in.
  13. If a top ten team from the last worlds jumped on a Capricorn and put some new rags on it they would still be in the top ten. I would wager that the original Capricorn is still the quickest boat upwind and whilst not easy to sail downwind when the breeze is up, it was never slow. The older boats are still fast, it's just that the top teams are all sailing new boats. With regards to foiling F18's, it would be fun for sure. But there are other classes for that. I think the F18 will continue to offer the best double handed racing platform in its current form for a long time to come. The boats are simple, tough and able to sail in a huge range of conditions. Im on my way home after our first training block on the new nacra 17 and it's been great (apart from the issues with the boat not being ready for production, again...) but it's very clear that it's not a great boat for all conditions. The F18 is a boat that can do a lot more and is much more accessible which is what the sport desperately needs. And trust me, I am somewhat of a foiling proponent
  14. TF 10 Foiling Trimaran

    it certainly will not be 800k, the final price is yet to be locked in, but I can assure you that its a lot less than 800. But to be honest if you have a look at some recently released 40fter's that are a whole lot slower, more expensive to maintain/campaign and the only time the hull will be clear of the water is on a travel lift.... The TF10 is awesome value.
  15. TF 10 Foiling Trimaran

    Nope. This is a premium spec boat and the price will reflect that. I can assure you that it will be a very refined and super high quality boat that is going to set the standard for this segment.