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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

BrianM v2

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About BrianM v2

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  • Birthday 05/29/1968

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  • Location
    Near 36 56N 076 18W
  • Interests
    International Moths, big grey ships, and things with strings.

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  1. The difference is prep work. The flight deck crew can use heavy-weather tie downs (different chaining pattern, more per aircraft, etc) if something is expected but don't typically use that. And obviously it is hard to conduct flight ops with everything lashed down. Two slightly different issues. One is moving the ship around with aircraft loose (during a cycle) - doesn't take much to get an aircraft moving sideways; the other is keeping things in place when they are tied down. We actually have movable ballast to counteract weight movements on the flight deck to keep her level. Uncorrected, the ship's lateral trim will change a few degrees during a flight cycle as the aircraft move from spotted positions (generally all stbd side to clear the waist cats) to gone. The pilots care both because of unplanned movements topside but that heel also changes clearance across the ramp as they come back onboard. Remember the landing area is angled across the deck - leaving a list on the ship means the ramp (aft-most portion of the flight deck) is higher on one side than the other. And there is only a few feet of clearance between the hook and the ramp on a typical approach. To the original picture, I've done this several times on IKE. Got her over about 15 degrees in the turns. By comparison, I can get a destroyer to lay over closer to 25 in a full power/full rudder turn. The destroyer is more fun to drive.
  2. No, but the airplanes would fall off the roof. Really. When the air wing is embarked, we have to keep the ship on an even keel at all times - more than about 2 degrees of heel and the planes start moving on their own, even breaking tie down chains. You learn how to do skid turns as a result. Back the inboard shafts to keep the deck level, and all that.
  3. I'm mixed classical, jazz, and hard rock. Started on classical piano, picked up clarinet, flute, and sax, then guitar. Played in concert bands and orchestras (even sat in on electric bass), covered lead tenor and keys in jazz bands through high school and college, and stints in pit orchestras. For one show I was clarinet, soprano sax, flute, and tenor - how many open books can you keep track of... Was lead/rhythm guitar and keyboard in a rock band a few years ago, anything from Rush, Metallica, Skynyrd, ZZ Top, AC/DC, Pearl Jam, etc. Finally started passing on all my gear. One nephew now has my pedal and wireless rig, another just got my Marshall and synth. Still have four guitars, a clarinet, two flutes (I think), and a baby grand.
  4. Burke wasn't a BMD shooter at the time, that capability was added several years later. Both Port Royal and Burke had the same root causes: failure to look out the window, loss of SA, and incorrect nav system setup. GPS-fed nav display said the ships were someplace else, and the bridge crews (and CIC, on Burke) relied on a single source of nav data without crosschecking. In Burke's case, those missed crosschecks included the simple "read the number on the buoy you just passed." No, I wasn't there at the time. I got to that ship about two years later, but made it a point to know the details. One of my standard OOD board questions was "where was Burke's illegal parking spot, and how did they get there?"
  5. If this was the reason, the solution doesn't work. Not all AIS receive stations are coastal. A growing number are satellite.
  6. Why would you use yards anyway? And a good hail call includes something like "calling the ship approaching buoy 1" or "2 miles south of the Three Sisters". Nothing more useless than a "ship off my starboard bow" call.
  7. For the mothies here - how long are your vertical foils? We just moved from a small but deep lake to a large but shallow river, got the moth out last weekend. Walked quite a bit more than expected, as the water was only about 3-4 feet deep (mid-tide, falling) over a mud bottom. Meant I could foil into lots of places where I couldn't lowride, and I found most of them. I'm planning to cut down my main and rudder, curious to know what others are using. My main is currently 44" from hull to bottom of foil, which I think is long for the class. Planning to hack back to about 32" so she'll float in 3.ish feet. I know I'll lose capsize righting moment and ride height, mostly glide time through tacks and gybes, and will have to modify the wand. My real concern is "how short is too short", mostly for recovery. So how long are your foils?
  8. That was SAN FRANCISCO in 2005; the sub vs LPD was 2009. I forgot SAN FRAN, wouldn't count her anyway because of the oddities of underwater navigation; HARFORD vs NEW ORLEANS I skipped on purpose as grey vs grey. That mishap is why the amphib fleet could claim better success at actually finding submarines than anyone else for years. Edited to add PORT ROYAL, who ran aground because they forgot to look out the damn windows in 2009. Needed Lark's mental kick for that one.
  9. An interesting question. My really rough math says the grey ships cover over 22,000,000 NM per year, total. That's 235 commissioned vessels (USS), steaming an average of 160 days a year (one year higher when deployed, one year lower while doing workups) at a notional 12 knots, 24 hours a day; and 105 non-commissioned vessels (USNS) steaming an average of 300 days a year at 15 knots, 24 hours a day. Multiply that by the number of years between cock-ups, compare it to a given shipping company (who typically doesn't advertise mishaps), and see what you get. My list, filtered by 1) things that happened since the day I joined the club 27 years ago. (I'm not still active) 2) things that weren't grey-on-grey (we do lots of things with ships that normal people wouldn't. The closest I've been to another ship at sea was less than 6 feet, picking up a half-flooded DD in tow). 3) things that caused actual damage. is six: RADFORD (hit a Saudi tanker in 1999); GREENVILLE (surfaced under a Japanese trawler in 2001); KENNEDY (hit a small boat in 2004); PORTER (got hit by a merchant in 2012); GUARDIAN (hit a marked reef in 2013); FITZGERALD (got hit by a merchant in 2017). 27 years at my notional steaming tempo - although back in the 90s, we had many more ships and a much higher OPTEMPO - or 600 million miles, six major mishaps. Roughly 100,000,000 miles between mishaps. N.B. your conclusions may vary, and will be well founded in internet speculation and math done by some guy you've never met.
  10. Valid point. I haven't heard any other details from inside the lifelines, but local eyeballs on the pier say the list is gone and she's floating on her lines again. So at least the patch/dewater part of the job is making progress.
  11. Unless you've seen other info, no "engine rooms" were destroyed. She's got two main engine rooms that hold the gas turbines, reduction gears, and related stuff; and other auxiliary machinery spaces that hold other things like AC units, chill water pumps, generators, and switchboards. One of the aux spaces was flooded. Doesn't directly impact main propulsion, except for the gaping hole below the waterline. I know there are lots of high-level conversations about how to fix, but keep in mind the Japanese build the same class ship. The capability exists to repair where she is. Current US law probably forbids it, though - only voyage repairs can be done at a foreign yard. Now define "voyage repair." Just ran across this space layout graphic. The artist took some liberties, but you can get an idea of what might have been impacted.
  12. It's been a few years since I walked the decks on a DDG, but in general, every routinely manned space below the waterline has two exits: the normal door (a watertight hatch in most places) out to the passageway and an escape scuttle (vertical ladder and round hatch to the space above.). Typically both hatches open out from the space. I'd have to think hard to remember if the scuttles were, in general, closer to centerline than the hull. Given the damage here, it is not inconceivable that the escape scuttle was crushed, hatch blocked by other damage, or lead up to another flooded space. Two berthing compartments were flooded, one below the other. An engineering space inboard of them was also flooded. I have not heard anything about where the flooding boundaries were eventually set, but given that list of major spaces, it wasn't at the hatch into the berthing area. Likely was the horizontal hatch at the Damage Control Deck, sealing off every space below it. Grey ships are built in a fairly vertical fashion. We have lots of athwartships watertight/smoke boundary bulkheads that run from the DC Deck (typically the main deck) all the way to the keel without hatches or access through them. That means that access to most deep spaces is down from the main deck through a series of ladderways. Moving fore or aft from there requires you to come back up to the main deck first.
  13. I seriously doubt it. FITZ is a Flight I DDG - no helo hanger, thus no embarked aircraft. You can visit but you can't stay. No one visits at 0130.
  14. We have had systems at sea since 1983 that will automatically track targets, evaluate them, launch weapons, monitor the results, and re-engage if required. Human just sets the parameters and rolls the key to "on." Cuts both ways. If the VINCENNES crew had left the system alone, it would not have launched. It knew what was actually happening. However, I routinely set up training scenarios where the system would try to launch on an unauthorized target, just to teach the students that they had to stay on top of the situation. The doctrine wasn't good enough to get nuances.
  15. VINCENNES was a combination of false urgency (drive yourself into contact with the enemy to go defend your helicopter who could have just flown further away, thus creating a perceived self-defense situation that didn't need to exist), internal decision making (no one person had the complete picture), and poor data display/control. The system displayed detailed information for whatever contact you have 'hooked' (think mouse-click-selection). A track swap happened between an F-4 and an airliner, and the IFF info went with it, so the airliner was now tagged with F-4 info; those who were looking at the old track number saw a course inbound to the ship with military IFF - but on a COMAIR route; those who were looking at the new track number saw decreasing altitude over land because the F-4 never went feet-wet. Group-think merged those two data points into an inbound descending military aircraft on an attack profile, in an environment where tensions were already high due to the existing surface engagement. The only 'lost' part was muddiness about which side of territorial waters they were on. They claimed international waters, reconstruction showed otherwise. Essentially, the CO went charging into a situation he created.