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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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About notherday

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  1. This isn't a pointed topic, but with several years under the belt of A-class, Nacras, Gunboats, the mod70s, AC, etc, why haven't the multihulls taken the world by storm (in terms of numbers) and will they ever? Yes there are those who are just sold on mutlihulls - but the run of the mill racing crowd hasn't jumped on board. We see all the TP/Pac52s, the the mini-maxis, etc - so we know there is new money being spent, but excpet for the high end cruisers and the super hight end record breakers, we still don't see a shift to multis. I know from experience the cats can be onucomofrtable as they bounce about, but they can also be comfortable when they get up and out of the water. They are fast, require less crew, etc - so why haven't they taken off? Is it because SH and Bermuda didn't accept them? But fastnet, trans atlantic, transpac all accpet them so that can't be it. Looking for real thoughts not trible drumbeating. If we were to build a new boat today- should it be a monohull or multi? Interesting question after two big AC efforts have led 80% of sailors wishing the event back to monohulls.
  2. Save the weight and hassle and just send Ricky out - who cares if he gets drenched!!!. Hell, he's going to have to retrieve it anyway
  3. Di you purposely and directly reshape the foredeck to gain a specific advantage? no, then only 15 lashes. if Yes, then keel haul. Simple.
  4. M24 has simple templates to measure fins against during pre-race measurement - it appears the J70 has them now as well ( you can see in the video the simple measurements and failures) - a little fairing does not seem to be the issue here. As clean inimate, there may be boats with additional internal structure. Apparently, there are some M24s that became more 'successful one designs' after 'repairs' - still they had to meet 10-15 basic measurements, but structure and hull 'fariness' may not have been measured. Still these j70 fin measurement issues look to be grossly out of sync with fair play intent. Glad to see they have finally reigned it in. Its hard to believe the class grew this big with these known 'measurement' problems - these could be all recent and only related to Italy but with Greenwalds' issues, it seems to be rampant in the class.
  5. Until you get 5 non-NYYC boats in your locale, and you will most likely race handicap and what keeps you from buying whatever sails you want for PHRF? I don't think they can outlaw other vendors for PHRF - now if you want to go race the NYYC boats in THEIR class.......
  6. Let be clear - this is NOT slight fairing do to poor workmanship - this is PURE CHEATING in terms of completely differently shaped foils: "The keels are not J/70 keels, they are significantly wider at the bottom than the molds they are supposed to have come out of. They also have lost most of the round 'belly' that extended down from the bottom of the bulb. It's not fairing, it's not repairing, it's straight up shape-changing." The other 165 boats are clearly all within the rules -these guys are no where near the letter nor the INTENT of the rules. Might as well have a little electric engine and a hidden prop to give them the same advantage. Would that be okay with you all? the prop was just added as part of the 'fairing! and no one proteseted our prop before when we won so it must be okay. I wonder if they have all had keel shrouds like the AC boats did!
  7. Try being a grinder on a assymetric boat like a TP 52 on long windy reach - for oh 2500 miles to Hawaii - then ask me if offshore sailors are athletes. Any sport is what you make of it.
  8. You are asuming the effort was a simple 'fix' to an unfair keel - without the actual info, the 'fix' could have been a completely different shape, size or weight! Once you knowinlgy go over the line, is there a difference from pushing it all the way? Its hard to believe they are being this harsh to world champions on simple fairing. I would assume the majority of the boats have had their keels regelled and sanded, which in some regard is allowed.
  9. from Scuttlebutt: Porto Cervo, Italy (September 12, 2017) – The start of the 2017 J/70 World Championship will need to wait until tomorrow as racing was officially cancelled today at 13:00 with winds gusting beyond 30 knots. After a notable measurement process which saw seven boats officially rejected for improper modifications, five filed for redress but had their requests denied. The forecast for tomorrow anticipates high winds again that are borderline for competition. Racing for the 162 entrants is to be held September 12 to 16 Provisional entry list shows 173, but above says 162 final entry. 7 were tossed leaving 4 unaccounted for.
  10. Well since the only way to be out of measurement on standardized keels is by cheating (since NOTHING can be done to the keels except polishing.I read the class rules..), I think your point is moot. This is not a case of slight overage of a sail measurement - this is clearly overt actions to gain unfair advantage by specific and illegal means. I first sailed J70s a few years ago - I noticed one boat significantly higher and faster than the rest of the fleet - it seemed odd - that boat/owner has been since disqualified. If I remember correctly - Perrseverance won all three races the first day of KWRW - after getting tossed and having to revert to standard wedges, they were mid fleet at best for teh rest of the regatta. It is hard to maintain a class once the cheating is understood to be rampant - its fine when its ok to cheat early on , as everyone thinks the same italions that won in F40s, M24/32s, etc must be that much better - but now it turns out to be much like Armstrong in cycling........ think i will wait to see the used market hit bottom next year.
  11. Well since the only way to be out of measurement on standardized keels is by cheating (since NOTHING can be done to the keels except polishing.I read the class rules..), I think your point is moot. This is not a case of slight overage of a sail measurement - this is clearly overt actions to gain unfair advantage by specific and illegal means. This class has a history of this, just as there are a few other classes in the same size that have had like issues. Those classes have been all but destroyed by this type of activity - finally a class had stood up and said 'no more' - and now its up to the national authorities to take the lead on cleaning this up. Either that or jsut let the rest of the class members vote if they are willing to let each of these specifically identified 'teams' to ever sail again - after all, what else have they gotten away with that hasn't been caught (and maybe the boats should be permanently banned as well?)
  12. When the owners stand up and tell all about who came up with and who did the illegal work, and they ALL get named and chucked by ISAF will we start to see some improvement - until then, expect to see an ongoing reduction in class racing, especially in the corinthian ranks. There are tens of thousands of sailors that follow the letter and intent of the rules (you don't put your engine in gear, you don't use over sized sails, etc.) - the numbers of Italians are inflated since its in Italy (unless everyone else knows how to get around the measurements). Greenwald clearly cheated twice - and yet he still was out sailing the next week - he just had the money to change boats. fI the pros on the disqualified boats took a rule 69 hit for it, then they will ensure their boats are legal ( and no I don't buy that one of the three pros on the boat doesn't know whats going on- the owners are not allowed to make changes like that without 'permission'). If the pros really didn't know what was going on and got caught in the muck, then they can sue the offending owner for lost wages for the year. Imagine how this crap would get cleaned up!! (they give suspensions for a little pot use but clear out and out cheating is hit by a simple withdrawal? - do they get their entry fees back?)
  13. If the cover article is anywhere true (and history says it is), I believe we have finally put a nail in the coffin that pros are a great advantage to a class. The class rules are 'closed' in that only changes allowed specifically in the rules, else its NOT allowed. Hull appendages can be sanded and thats it - unless damage has been made (we must assume there is LOTS of damage in the class!!). Thus any changes outside of light sanding is specifically rejected and therefore must be considered cheating. Throw in the pros whose only job is to make the boat win, and you have a terrible mix. They will likely burn through this class and onto the next - and if they get caught , they move on with no retributions (where should rule 69 come into play so that this is more than a class specific issue). Imagine if the class leaders had to sail with class legal equipment like the rest of us do!
  14. While i firmly believe in mankind's impact on greenhouse, as an engineer, I was intrigued by the statement that there wasn't enough water in the ice to cause the expected rise - so I went to google and found an easily understood but mathematically correct explanation of the rise, which per the NYU author states there should/could be a rise of 11.5" in the next hundred years - given a 3° rise in ambient temperature of the oceans - http://cosmo.nyu.edu/Shoshana_Sommer.pdf In short, of the 11" expected rise: - thermal expansion of salt water accounts for 3.7" - mountain and ice cap melting accounts for 2.1" - Greenland ice sheet melting accounts for 1.5" and Antarctica melting (after its initial counter impact) accounts for 1.5" The article does not approach whether the 3° is real or what is the causation, but if the 3° does come to pass, the 11.5" of real sea level rise can be calculated using real world physics which makes sense - now back to the denying of millions of years of empirical data!
  15. An older boat that has had to be 'repaired' after an 'accident' has been shown to be more than competitive. Just saying.