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Newbie Catamaran Spreadsheet Analysis; Pepito Follow through
Mitch posted a topic in Multihull Anarchy
Hello Everyone, First off, excellent responses to Pepito’s plans. I’m Mitch Taylor in Stuart FL. Joined Pepito's thread a little late so started another just in case nobody was still on that one, not exactly sure how it works. If it's better to continue his thread then someone just erase this one. Just joining the SA forum for the first time (first Sailing forum ever actually) and looks like the best place, after many years of reading/ research, to find help. I’m on nearly the same path as Pepito though medical background, still practicing, with kids still in Middle school; but divorced, living alone now. The younger two, 11 and 13 will hopefully be living with me aboard a 35’ish monohull in the next year, then 42’ish cat in another 2 years. I’m self taught so far sailing a 17’ Watkins Daysailer (first sailboat) in the St. Lucie Inlet which has been great fun and invaluable experience. Just sold it for probably a F18 next step up. Then plan on persuing certification for Catamaran Cruising ASA certifications. My angle: I’m not ashamed to admit I'm a “spreadsheet” guy, trying to narrow down the field by SA/D and D/L ratios, etc., for a performance designed but liveable used, well built Cats in the 39 to 48’ range. Budget is similar to Pepito, but I’d like to keep the initial purchase in the $400k range for upgrades and surprises as I’ve read repeatedly overextending is maybe one of the worst first mistakes. Even the new 40's fully equipped are pushing $650k. And I would love to not take the hardest hit of depreciation with a new boat purchase. Therefore in reality what I guess I’m loofdsking for is most likely a 10 year old 42’ cat well balanced, performance to comfort, Owners version…. Earlier French, Australian, S African...Schionning, Grainger, Outremer, Catana, Lightwave, Nautitech, Fountaine Pajot, Seawind, Leopard? Would love a new Balance Roger Hill 451, but don't want or need a new boat. Can anyone point me towards previous threads, or books, blogs, personal SPREADSHEETS would be great!, etc to “analyze” the field? I know numbers can’t accurately describe the “feel” or value of a great boat or even make fair comparisons of boats with different strengths. There is no fast comfortable affordable boat. Every boat is a compromise for everyone’s priortities. Australian Multihull World Article by Joe Goddard seems to be on the right track http://www.multihull.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=97:buying-a-catamaran&catid=19&Itemid=101 but the graph didn't make the article. I emailed them and they replied with the graph below. MultiHull Dynamics has certainly done a lot of analytics but they can’t or won’t provide it in a spreadsheet format to view the entire database with adjustable variables, I’ve asked. So I'm comparing two at a time. I’m just trying to organize thoughts and create a list outside my head, that I can reference and share with notes of strengths and weaknesses so I can begin ranking favorites and thereby keep an eye on the market for what might pop up in the next couple of years. Surely I’m not the first. Favorites so far are Leopard 39 and 43 and SeaWind 1160. Love the accessibility of techniks on the Leopard for maintenance. As well as the semi raised bulkhead helm. Broad enough hulls to carry a reasonable liveaboard arsenal but not super heavy. Windows work, could be better. Good Sail plan. Would like the forward cockpit on the 44... Thoughts? Thanks, Mitch Graph.jpg.pdf- 14 replies
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Kleen Breeze, a 60+ foot Harryproa, is doing its first sea trials. It features a novel combination of unstayed wing masts in schooner configuration and two bidirectional Speer foil rudder boards. Looking very promising so far.
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Or rather, why should I NOT buy one? I hope to be looking at one this week. Anyone have any experience about these? Apparently: They are not your uncle's Cal-39, but a newer, non-Lapworth design by Raymond Hunt. http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=3670 Sailboat data reports they are lighter, beamier, and have a slightly shorter LWL than the Cal-39-2/3 the planview sketch (completely unofficial) looks quite different They were maybe manufactured by O'Day, not Jensen Marine? That said, the interior looks quite nice, and if they sail like the old Cal-39s, and don't easily fall apart, my bank may have to prove they have the money they SAY they have been holding in my name. Any experience with these - or thoughts? Absent that, any free beer? Thanks, Kulokoo
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I'm new to this, all of this... I sailed sunfish at boy scout camp for a week about 15 years ago, then went on the Chesapeake for an afternoon in a beneteau. Now I'm crewing for a friend on his Pearson 424, and the first night out we had gusts over 35kts and a significant wave height of 10'. I want to get into single-handed dinghy cruising and I've been checking the forums. Most people don't have an interest in what I'm looking for, so it's hard to find. I want something comparable to a wayfarer, which is hard to say having never seen one. My neighbor has had an albacore parked in the driveway since his son passed almost 20 years ago. I'm thinking about making an offer, but want some input as to what might better suit my "needs." Models I'm considering: Wayfarer, Flying Scot, Buccaneer, Paceshup Alouette, Pumpkin Seed, and Albacore. I'm not looking for a racing boat like a laser, but something robust, fast, forgiving, open (no, no O'Days, etc.), 15+', trailerable, single-handed (even if it's with practice), and "spacious..." Does the albacore even come close? Budget is $1500, tops, but I'm willing to do some beefing up, re-rigging, modifying, etc. I've been looking into this for a bit, but wanted to put it forward. Is there something I'm missing? I'm looking to do extended offshore sailing, starting in the Bay, then maybe the Great Lakes, after I get off this roller coaster.
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I am just about to finish Uni, sailed in the solent always. The UK seems very keen to fuck itself, and everyone that lives here over. Now I need to start making a bug out plan..... Where can I go that has as much going on as this fine green stretch of water? I'm talking smallish to biggish keel boats, dinghies are everywhere. Nearby engineering industry is also ideal. Thoughts?
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Cruising is about more than damp bunks and stubborn auxiliary engines. Cruising is about high adventure, mystical experiences and the astounding people you meet. The Islander is one of those people. Read about him at www.wsschaill.com/events.htm
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I find a very nice boat in Brisbane that ticks most of the boxes. I don't have much time though as I have a very busy month ahead. Photoshoots in Australia, France, Switzerland and Austria keep me very busy but its now nearly time to head back to Australia and check out the new floating home. I also weigh in on the Patreon topic. My basic point is that I dont expect a hand-out. I earn my money doing a job I love very much(photography) and I spend almost all that I earn on going sailing. Its my choice and I believe I have an enviable lifestyle and I personally am very satisfied. If people wish to support me through this platform then I am more than happy and I hope that in return they will be entertained and maybe even inspired. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbp1GNpuQrU&t=5s
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Hi all I decided to sell my proa Nixe. She is a 38ft cruising proa located in Phuket, Thailand, ready for sailing. Have a look at www.proa-nixe.ch Alexander
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G'day, just wanted to get the word out there about the newish site Zulu waterways, for those who don't know it. If you haven't heard of it, it's an easy to use way of sharing sailing destination information and staying in touch with other sailors. Would like to hear feedback, but I'm mostly wanting to encourage more sailors to get involved and help build the site into a useful tool for all of us who travel the worlds waterways. http://www.zuluwaterways.com The intro video in the FAQ section of the site explains the functions. Thanks
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I am looking at a Beneteau FC10 and I really like the design. Could it serve as a family cruiser? Is it reliable enough to do the Atlantic Circle to escape winter in the Med?
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We will be moving our new to us Downeaster 45 from Blaine, WA to Los Angeles in early August this year and I am beginning route planning for the trip.After doing some basic research here and in various books (e.g. World Cruising Routes), it seems as though we have two main options. Head out to sea then turn south or hug the coastline in case we need to pull into port (knowing that we would encounter more traffic, crab pots and sand bar entrances).I am leaning towards staying somewhere around 30nm off the coast and making as few stops as possible. I am really only planning on stopping in San Francisco so we can do a crew change, resupply and have family visit us mid-trip before continuing on to Los Angeles. Is this a reasonable approach? If so, does anyone have some suggested waypoints for navigating this passage?We plan on sailing Blaine to Port Angeles the first day, then continuing on when the tide and weather cooperate for a departure from the Strait of Juan De Fuca. We will have ~6 people on board for each segment of the trip. I would love to hear any suggestions on the route, waypoints or really anything else that may assist our voyage.
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Well, the new trimaran by Corsair saved my sailing life anyway... In short, I found myself without a fleet in my early 40's asking the question "what's next?". I learned to sail at age 7. I won my first national championship at 11, was a four year letter at USMMA with a few national titles in hand by graduation in 1997. After college, like many others, I continued to sail lasers and V15s though many of my fellow collegiate sailing competitors went into full time Olympic campaigns. I qualified and competed in the Olympic Trials in 2000, 2004 & 2008 to showcase how much better the full time campaigners became over the years. For my personal fleet, I traded usage of an S525 for a J22 along the way and raced it for 13 years. I ended up with a J30 that my wife and I enjoyed overnight cruising on but now with three kids, two boys 9 & 6 and a girl now 3, the contentment and solice the J30 brought my wife and I does not quite do it for all of us. One day about three years ago, the owner of the J22 Green Flash called requesting his boat back. We originally traded boats because we were both moving simultaneously, I left my boat where it was in Port Arthur for him to use, he left the J22 in Houston for me to use. Sadly, I delivered Green Flash back to Port Arthor and the two of us decided I would donate the S525 along with some cash from him to the sea scouts. I looked around for a new fleet and was not pleased with the state of the sailing world. It was the new age of the handy sport boat with new fleets popping up every six months. I went to a regatta that had 8 fleets of sport boats under 30 feet none of which had more than 6 boats and I could only think "this could be an awesome regatta with 50 boats on the line but instead it is a whole bunch of mini-regattas going on simultaneously, yipee, what is wrong with this picture?". I had no intention on waiting for one fleet to take over the others which may take years and didn't care to buy a boat that propaganda dictated "that's where the competition is going." Watching the sport get stretched so thin was depressing and, frankly, I just wanted to go sailing again, have fun and go fast. After much research, I bought the Corsair Pulse 600 last spring and can't say enough good things about this boat. I have raced it with my family of five, single handed and with an experienced crew or two . I have hit 25 knots with three experienced crew and I have returned to port at 19 knots with my 6 year old attempting to do flips on the windward trampoline. One Friday afternoon, I left the office, splashed the boat left the dock at 2:45, went sailing came back put the boat away and left for home at 5:07 after logging 21 miles of blasting around Galveston Bay in my button down shirt and slacks. For the first time in a long time, I am excited about just going out for a sail. The boat is fast while staying within the envelope of control and comfort. Over the last year I have had the opportunity to push the limits of the Pulse 600 and have become more pleased with my decision to purchase it each time. The boat rounds up when it should and plows through pitch-pole situations just as the designers intended. It weight 992 lbs rigged and trailers at 90 mph with no problem. You can take my word this boat is fast and easy or check this out this fast replay of the Galveston Bay Cruising Association's Rum Race #2, an 11.3 mile, staggered start with fast boats starting last and everyone theoretically finishing the triangle course at the same time. TEAM AMERICA 142 is the green track leaving the dock when the first boat is rounding Mark #1. https://www.facebook.com/chadtroywilson/posts/10213254384977377?notif_t=like¬if_id=1497797056038278 And a first attempt of some on board footage, admittedly not the best but it doesn't suck either So the message here goes to all those Anarchist who may be contemplating suicide of their sailing life, THERE IS HOPE and it is the Corsair Pulse 600.
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Hello folks, It's looking like a new boat will enter my life soon. The doctors say it's terminal and there's nothing I can do but accept it. With that in mind, I was hoping to tap into the vast collective wealth of knowledge and bullshit known as Cruising Anarchy for input on selecting a suitable vessel. Me: I am a commercial fisherman with years of blue-water experience off the shores of Cape Cod. Seamanship is in my blood and I am handy and motivated. My sailing experience is mostly self-taught over the last five years with a smattering of sailing lessons as a child. I owned a 15' boat- an O'day Javelin, see pic below- for four years that I got for free from my uncle in questionable condition. It was a decrepit, slow tub but she was mine for years of happy gunkholing and exploring- and fixing the many, many things which went wrong. I graduate college next year and am looking to make sailing a lifestyle, if not a profession. The Boat: I'm looking for a 25'-ish fiberglass vessel to continue my sailing career on. It will be kept on stands in a Marina in the winter and on a mooring in the summer. Trailerability is not a concern. As a relative novice I can't imagine that I won't run it aground at some point, and knowing the chop of Buzzard's Bay in the prevailing southwesterly breeze, I'm reasonably convinced that a full-keel (or, technically, modified fin with attached rudder) vessel is the right choice for me in terms of seaworthiness and fool-proof-ness. I'll spend most of my time singlehanding with the occasional daysail/ weekend trip with a few friends and family. I'm looking to own it for 3-4 years with aims of initially building skills and experience cruising the waters around Cape Cod, and eventually sailing it south to the Caribbean in late September, going inside of Hatteras on the ICW. I have $5000 to spend on the purchase of the boat itself and would prefer to buy a boat within MA and not farther than Providence. This seems like a very reasonable price to me- looking on Craigslist, there's no shortage of suitable boats in this range. The Cape Dory 25 and Bristol 24 stand out to me as common and handsome-looking vessels. I see the occasional larger boat- Bristol 27, Pearson Ariel, Pearson Triton, Bristol 29- but I'm unconvinced that I need one of these. It doesn't seem like the extra 3-4' of LOA add very much to the boat (still no standing headroom, still cramped interiors, etc.) and they're uniformly less well-kept and well-equipped than the boats in the 25' range for the same price. Most also have inboard engines, which I'm against. I'm comfortable performing diesel maintenance on the fishing boat, but the last thing I want to do is try to keep a decrepit old sailboat diesel- or god forbid, gas- motor running. I want to sail, not deal with maintenance on an engine, fuel system, propshaft, prop, etc. The only things I see as a positive about a larger boat are room to grow and increased seaworthiness from size and displacement and an inboard. With that in mind, I'd very much appreciate your input in the form of: -thoughts on the Cape Dory 25, in terms of sailing performance, seaworthiness, suitability for my needs? Anyone with experience on/ owning these boats? -thoughts on the Bristol 24 for the same? I've heard awful things about them cracking in half when the iron filings in the keel get wet but like how heavy and tank-like they are... -thoughts on the type of boat? There are some very nice Catalina 25's and C&C 24's in my region, but I'm drawn towards a full keel... -thoughts on the size of boat? I really like the look of the Pearson Triton, Ariel, etc. It's only $100 more per winter to store one of these and they displace nearly 1 ton more. Some of them even have a reputation for "bluewater ability" but that seems to me to be a very hazy concept. They'd provide more room for me as I get older and would be more suitable in the case I manage to shanghai a woman to come with me. But the last thing I want to do is buy and fix a shitty 27' boat when I could have bought a nice 25' boat and went sailing instead. Thank you for reading. I hope to see you out there on the water this season. Fair winds, -CB
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Online Survey on Florida Anchoring and Mooring Available, October 1-9, 2016
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SURVEY: fuel consumption during your coastal cruising
psychosailing posted a topic in Cruising Anarchy
I am trying to come up with an average fuel consumption for motoring during cruising. I am analyzing the use of oil on sailboat (it's everywhere not only fuel but resins, plastics, varnish, paint, sealants,etc.) and I realized I have absolutely no clue on the motoring needs itself and I can't find an average. The reason is probably because it is such a wide and complex field to investigate as there are different means of auxiliary propulsion (diesel, gasoline, or hybrid electric), of course different sailboats, many different uses (offshore vs waterways, etc.) and geographical variety (type of coast and weather patterns). I thought maybe asking cruisers in the first place is a way to get as close as I probably can. My questions are two: 1) do you know of any GOOD study, magazine article, book, where this topic is covered? 2) Excluding ocean crossings (ocean trips longer than 1000miles) If you have an internal combustion motor and you do cruise extensively (at least 1 month a year out of your homeport),how much fuel you use for motoring every 100 miles? (Fuel purchased/100miles). Can you also provide a description of the type of cruising (type of boat, propulsion, sailing area, offshore/coastal, other features). Thank You,
