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Showing results for tags 'phrf'.
Found 9 results
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Our local club uses the PHRF handicap figures. There is a listing for the Nacra 450 Turbo (close in specs to the 460) but not the 460. Does anyone know of an active, accurate figure for the 460 that could be converted to a PHRF figure? Thanks In Advance
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Anyone aware of PHRF committees that allow for one configuration when racing spinnakered (fully crewed) and a different configuration under non-spinnaker? Without the different configurations, the boat would rate the same. And by configuration differences, I mean standard published LP and WSP credits not different rudders or rigs that would required a rating assessment.. In may case I'd like to do my weekend racing fully crewed with the boat's 155 genoa; for weeknight non-spinnaker racing, I'd prefer to race with a 135 #2 and get a 6 second credit. Reason being that I don't want to have to rely on the same caliber of crew for beer can racing as for spinnakered racing. Being non-spinnakered, the skill requirements are lessened. But the 155 can be a handful in above 8 knots. So drop down in max LP make tacking easier and safer, sail with all skill levels and get a standard LP credit of +6 seconds. No brainer? The WSP credit is available anytime since it only applies to non-spinnakered racing. Though I'd be hard-pressed to take a credit for a J length whisker pole if I had to sail with the 155 because I couldn't get credit for going with a smaller genoa. Anyone with any thoughts or experience with this? Not trying to make work for anyone. Again, this would be to take advantage of readily available, published credits.
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Based on the various other threads, how much fun can you have racing for fewer dollars? For what it's worth we race Lioness in SFBay and Estuary races, and have done reasonably well. Entry and administrative stuff: about $520 a year for 28 races Annual YRA/USSAILING and PHRF ~$200 Sunday Brunch Series 5 races $100 Sweet Sixteen Series 16 races on Wednesday nights $160 Interclub Series 6 races on the bay on 2nd Saturdays $100 Rites of Spring and Octoberfest club races $60 We could race Friday nights and other Saturdays if we wanted to for similar entry fees, something on the order of $20/race over the course of the year We race "non-spinnaker" as it reduces the size and needed skill of the crew, and provides enough competition to make it fun Expense budget for Racing: beyond daysailing/cruising expense. Hull Diver cleaning every 6 weeks $100 = $1000 "racing Bottom" Micron 66 Paint at quadrennial haul $400/yr difference Rigging: Better sheets & halyards $1000/year Upgrading traveler/sheet blocks/genoa cars etc $1000/yr Electronics Depreciation on H5000 kit: $2000/yr (assume replacement every 10 years) Sails $1000/ year for sail replacement (Genoa, Main, Mizzen, Mizzen Staysail) Yes we are using nearly 20 yr old Vectran Main and Mizzen, and a 2019 Genoa and Mizzen staysail. Already have the (1962) Trysail, and storm jib, added the #3 blade in 2018 Crew: Annual Schwag: Shirts/vests $500 Beer/dinner after Racing 28*$50 = $1400 Lunch for day races $100 * 6 Total about $9000/yr for expenses beyond what I would spend to just to go out and putz around for a 40' boat with typically 5 people for a day race. To race with Spinnaker as well as Mizzen staysail we would need 8 crew. For the ~130 hours of enjoyment (16+5)*3 for Estuary and 8*8 for bay races its about $70/hr. Compare that to Skiing, Golf or travel it's quite affordable.
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Why would certain boat designs NOT sail to their rating?
Floating Duck posted a topic in Sailing Anarchy
Why do some hull/rig designs don't seem to "sail to their rating" under VPP-driven handicap systems? ex. Pogo 12.5 Or put another way, why do some hull/rig designs DO sail to their rating, ex. Sydney 38 Barring philosophical discussions of a rating system, could it be an overall systemic rating issue of designs that have a large difference (delta) between their upwind and downwind speeds - which current rating systems are incapable of rating appropriately? I primarily ask because I am looking to have a custom boat designed (by Mr. Perry if anyone is wondering, haven't reach out to him so don't tell him yet ). Looking to race competitively under IRC/ORC but I want something that is not a turd. Looking for serious beam, very low B/D, and a large amount of movable water ballast - all of which don't seem to work under current rating systems? And no, a J120 is not fast nor do I want that. Bieker's Riptide are fast, a SC52 is fast, Pogo 40's are fast (in heavy wind), Rodger Martin's Grey Wolf is fast, and Bob Perry's Stealth Chicken is fast. -
Need ideas (that have worked in the past) on how to convince the newish group of handicappers from dinging a boat that has done well for the past 8 years. Existing rating is same as 'similar' light air locations. 40+ yr old Mulls design has been well cared for and has adjusting genoa cars and backstay and bottom cleaned regularly. Thought it a good idea to ask (but if LR is here, maybe not). Flame away and Sail Safe!
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In an earlier thread about headsail adjustments Alex W provided a link to the NW PHRF rating handbook. A cursory review of the handbook was a revelation in transparency. Here was a PHRF committee telling the sailors in detail how it does business. How base boat rating are derived, the process of how adjustments are are computed. I particularly liked how one off boats are treated. I might have archived a fair rating for my boat in 2 or 3 years rather than the 17 years it actually took. I had always thought that my regional PHRF committee was one of the better ones. They are active, they review boats in the fleet regularly, they are responsive to appeals. After reading the NW PHRF handbook I have been looking at my PHRF committee more critically. One of the areas I examined is headsail area adjustments. Headsail Adjustments Spinnaker Class Non-Spinnaker Class LP/J Size Range Rating Adjustment LP/J Size Range Rating Adjustment Up to1.10 +7 Up to 1.10 +16 Greater than 1.10 to 1.20 +6 Greater than 1.10 to 1.20 +13 Greater than 1.20 to 1.30 +5 Greater than 1.20 to 1.30 +10 Greater than 1.30 to 1.35 +4 Greater than 1.30 to 1.40 + 7 Greater than 1.35 to 1.40 +3 Greater than 1.40 to 1.48 + 4 Greater than 1.40 to 1.45 +2 Greater than 1.45 to 1.51 +1 Greater than 1.48 to 1.51 + 1 Greater than 1.51 to 1.55 0 Greater than 1.51 to 1.55 0 Greater than 1.55 to 1.60 -1 Greater than 1.55 to 1.60 - 1 Greater than 1.60 to 1.65 -2 Greater than 1.60 to 1.65 - 2 Greater than 1.65 to 1.70 -3 Greater than 1.65 to 1.70 - 3 Greater than 1.70 is adjusted proportionally. Greater than 1.70 is adjusted proportionally. The table shows that a 155% jib has a neutral or 0 adjustment. If you have a smaller jib there is a credit, +7 for a 110% jib If your jib is larger there is a -1 adjustment for each 5% LP. So given my I is 42,5 and my J is 14 the sail area for my 100% jib is 297.5. My J is 14 so the 155% LP would be 21.7. The area of the 155% jib would be 461. Note that I am using LP instead of J to compute sail area for the larger jibs because I don't know what the foot would measure. The relative differences between jib sizes will be the same regardless How much is 5%LP worth in sq ft.? Using the area of the 155% jib, a 160% jib would be 476 or 15 sq ft larger than the 155% jib. Similarly a 165% jib would be 491 sq ft or 15 sq ft. larger than the 160% jib. A 170% jib would be 506 sq ft or 15 sq ft. larger than the 165% jib. Pretty consistent. For each 5% LP the sail area increases by 15 sq ft. Now let's take that consistent 15 sq ft and apply it to the credit side of the sail area adjustment table. Let's take that 15 sq ft and divide it into the size difference between a 100% jib and a 155% jib. The 100% jib is 297.5 and the 155% jib is 461 for a difference of 164 . Dividing the size difference of 164 by 15, the penalty increase in sq ft for each 5%LP, yields a difference of 11 seconds per mile. So the real credit of a small jib should be 11 seconds not the 7 seconds that PHRF gives. As usual PHRF gives less in credits than it takes in penalties. Another question about the headsail adjustment table is why do non spinnaker boats get a bigger credit than spinnaker boats. Spinnaker boats already boats already have a built in rating penalty. My certificate shows a 15 second credit if I sail non spinnaker and because I sail with a 100% jib I get an additional 16 seconds credit? Another thing, I thought there was a consistent 19 second penalty for spinnakers but mine is only 15. Doing a quick look at various certificate I find that there is a range of 10 to 22 seconds. Shouldn't the spinnaker penalty be consistent? Anyone from PHRF want to try to explain what is going on here?
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Entries a month out are looking ok. Who else is in?
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PHRF of So. Calif requires any amendmnt in the class rules that will change ratings of boats must be approved by the members at the Annual Meeting. The Annual Meeting was last night but it was announced that the board had changed the class rule for equipment adjustments in 2019 without the required vote. That would impact the ratings for over 20% of the boats yet no vote was taken. The FINAL amended rules were even posted the day before the Annual Meeting so there was no pretense of following the rule that requires a vote. If a sailor ignores the rules that apply and just does whatever he wants on the racecourse we consider him a cheater and maybe report him for misconduct. The powers that be at PHRF of So. Calif. have blatantly ignored their own class rules. This is basically cheating. They should be investigated for misconduct and maybe removed from office. How can sailors respect PHRF if the officers make no attempt to follow their own rules and deny sailors their right to vote? I've seen postings that point to the PHRF of So. Calif. class rules as a good model. That may be. But, if PHRF refuses to follow the rules then it makes no difference whether the rules or good ones or bad ones.
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In the last 20 years, N2E has split PHRF boats into classes in a number of ways; separate ULDB classes, separate Sprit boat classes, separate Maxi class, etc. In recent years, classes have been divided by rating alone. The SB-KH race separates ULDBs into their own classes, and non-ULDB into their own classes, split on a Performance Factor of 2.7. (SoCal PHRF uses 2.1 as their ULDB definition, probably set a long time ago). The idea is to group similar performing boats, since ULDBs go faster in more wind than is predicted by the displacement hull speed based PHRF TOD rating, and non-ULDBs do not. I like separate ULDB classes. With the general lower participation in today's sailboat races, this will result in larger rating spreads in classes of more similar performing boats. The question for you all, is which do you prefer? The current classes by ratings only , or separate groups of ULDB classes and non-ULDB classes, rating splits within their groups. Bill NOSA VC Race PS - I don't race in PHRF so no effect to me personally
