Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

lasersail2

Kiteboarding bid for olympics

Recommended Posts

Just saw this on one of the kite board sites I follow. Kite racing looks like a lot of fun, but including kites would likely mean cutting an existing class. It's interesting because the kite community is very divided over being classified as a sailing craft and falling under ISAF jurisdiction. Campaign is for the 2016 Rio games.... Thoughts?

 

Announcement:

http://www.internationalkiteboarding.org/i...&Itemid=140

 

Brochure:

http://www.internationalkiteboarding.org/i...hure%202009.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My thoughts exactly. Olympics effectively take the fun and comraderie out of any sport that enters.

 

I have the Olympics in my city. I hope my kid will be able to pay off this debacle. What a supreme waste of money!

 

Cheers, Trev

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My thoughts exactly. Olympics effectively take the fun and comraderie out of any sport that enters.

 

I have the Olympics in my city. I hope my kid will be able to pay off this debacle. What a supreme waste of money!

 

Cheers, Trev

 

they olympics are a friendly competition between nations... it isnt supposed to make money. everything doesnt have to make money to be worthwhile.

you do realize if you have a decent home you could probably rent it for a week during the olympics and cover your mortgage for a month? trev, you clearly have no understanding or knowledge of the olympic spirit or high level athletic competition

 

btw, kiting in the olympics is a kick ass idea. with all the lame bs sports such as sychronized swimming, figure skating (with all the judging BS), 472 different swimming events, kiting sure as shit should be in the olympics!

 

ruin your sport? please. look at the laser game, way more competitive and still fun as hell with olympic status.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My thoughts exactly. Olympics effectively take the fun and comraderie out of any sport that enters.

 

I have the Olympics in my city. I hope my kid will be able to pay off this debacle. What a supreme waste of money!

 

Cheers, Trev

 

they olympics are a friendly competition between nations... it isnt supposed to make money. everything doesnt have to make money to be worthwhile.

you do realize if you have a decent home you could probably rent it for a week during the olympics and cover your mortgage for a month? trev, you clearly have no understanding or knowledge of the olympic spirit or high level athletic competition

 

btw, kiting in the olympics is a kick ass idea. with all the lame bs sports such as sychronized swimming, figure skating (with all the judging BS), 472 different swimming events, kiting sure as shit should be in the olympics!

 

ruin your sport? please. look at the laser game, way more competitive and still fun as hell with olympic status.

 

 

Peter i have to disagree, look at the 505 it would never be as popular if it was olympic, look at the FD barely hanging in there. People ask about the moth as an olympic boat and I think that it would hurt the class.

 

Though i doubt olympic kiteboarding would do anything to hurt the guys going out and throwing a kite loop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My thoughts exactly. Olympics effectively take the fun and comraderie out of any sport that enters.

Sorry, I have to disagree. While I hate the political bullshit that is associated with the Olympics (ditching the only catamaran class for example), the camaraderie among Olympic representatives and aspirants is, in my experience, absolutely top level. To be an Olympic representative requires talent, but also commitment at an extreme level over an extended period (many years). Those who have achieved this are very willing to help those who aspire to it. Those I've met have mostly been great people, very helpful, friendly and encouraging. I'm sure it's a similar story in other sports also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're trying to tell me that the local level of laser racing was helped by the Olympics? Bullshit!! The local Tuesday/Sunday dinghy racing used to be quite strong. Now you only see a larger turn out if there is going to be a large event locally. The laser purchase price almost doubled overnight, in Canada, when they received status. How is this good for the class?

 

The olympics ceased to be about the athletes long ago. It is now just a bloated marketing machine making millions off the backs of the athletes who often live below the average poverty line.

 

Coarse racing in a kite is in such a development right now that you couldn't set a "one design" board or kite design. Unless these are established you could hardly expect a level playing field.

 

Stay with the X-Games.

 

The truly strong classes in sailing, the star or laser, really don't need the Olympics. If it weren't for the Olympics who would sail a Yngling? The US representative in womens sailboard was decided before the trials. Now that is Bullshit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

interesting piece from scuttlebutt:

 

With the 2016 Olympic Games headed to Rio de Janeiro, and the sailing events

to held on the beaches of the Copacabana, there is growing enthusiasm for

how perfectly Kiteboarding would suit the scenery. The International

Kiteboarding Assocation (IKA), which has been authorized by the

International Sailing Federation (ISAF) to govern kiteboard racing, has

launched its campaign to demonstrate what kiteboard racing has to offer the

Olympic Games.

 

Says two-time Olympic medalist Michael Gebhardt (USA), member of the IKAs

Olympic Commission, "Kiteboarding is the purest form of sailing and would be

an awesome addition to the Olympic Family within the framework of the 2016

Olympic Sailing Event. Kiteracing is not weight sensitive and all of your

equipment can fit in the back of a regular car. Its colorful, dynamic,

inexpensive and super easy to learn... and can be done in water as shallow

as 2 inches deep, opening up many places where no other craft can navigate.

 

“As a five-time Olympic Athlete within the sport of Windsurfing and now a

professional kiteboarder, I feel Kiteboarding would marry well within ISAF's

umbrella of international and Olympic Sailing events. Why not introduce the

sport to the world for the 2016 Olympics. It is the most modern and

efficient form of wind powered sailing on the planet."

 

Kiteboarding perfectly suits the IOC strategy

Kiteboarding is the best performing of all sailing classes

Kiteboarding offers equal opportunities for any kind of athlete

Kiteboarding is affordable and transportable

Kiteboarding is media attractive

Kiteboarding brings the sports top athletes to The Games

Kiteboardings Olympic Campaign is supported by the major manufacturers

Kiteboarding can help to make Olympic Sailing attractive again

 

The high-resolution version of the 2009 brochure "Kiteboarding and the

Olympics" can be downloaded here: http://tinyurl.com/y9cfm8f

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Coarse racing in a kite is in such a development right now that you couldn't set a "one design" board or kite design. Unless these are established you could hardly expect a level playing field.

 

 

I don't think this is true.

Costs for kites and boards are relatively small, I don't think there's any more need for 'one design' for kiteboard racing than for one design in rowing boats. Good box rule and let them typeform.

 

I would say that I think W/L racing for kiteboard would be a waste of time.

I'd rather see something a zig zag slalom, with plenty of separation with a premium on kite handling, and choice of wave conditions. Modeling kite racing on kayak slalom, or even boarder cross makes more sense than modeling it on one design sailboat racing.

Courses could include ramps and features, turns close to a beach (i.e. marks in less than 1ft of water) and even 'gap' jumps, set up to allow sailors to either jump over or go around a section.

 

 

Moving kite racing a long way from sailing would be a good plan... especially to avoid loosing sailing 'slots' to kite athletes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kiteboarding is the purest form of sailing???? I think there are a few people here, myself included, who find that statement somewhat presumptuous.

 

Sailing has never been understood by the Olympics. If it isn't media friendly and easily broadcast for TV bites then it can never be that popular. For most sailors, who know what is actually involved in sailboat racing, that is fine, because they know the average joe will never get it. And so now comes along kiteboarding, and says it is right for the olympics? What makes the kiteboarders think that it will be any more broadcast friendly than regular sailing? And really, is kiteboarding more "sporting" than sailboat racing? And just which class will they eliminate to fit it in to the olympic (read:broadcastable) schedule?

 

I don't think the olympics is bad for certain classes. Did it really help or hurt Lasers? The Laser class was huge long before it became an olympic class, and has not exploded since then because it became an olympic class. I think most of the long-time olympic class boats have gained something because of their inclusion - there are always sailors who will gravitate to those classes knowing that if they are good enough then they will get a chance to compete on the world stage. Should kiteboards be included here? Do they have any longevity or are they just a fad? Look at how quickly the IOC admits and drops different classes from competition. Even if they do allow kiteboards will they have any staying power?

 

The one reason that the Finn class has stayed since 1952 is that they have evolved and grown as technology has. Plus it has proven itself to be the essence of what singlehanding racing is, which is why I can't imagine why they added the Laser, all that did was taint the pool. And yet every year it seems the Finn is on the possible elimination list. For what? - the current flavor of the moment, like kiteboarding? I don't get it. Makes you think that the olympics have become less about true sport and more about marketing and saleability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You make some good points about kiting (how will they fit the broadcasting schedule when they need consistent wind to even float?) but saying that the Laser "tainted the pool" is a pretty big call - what about the fact that the Laser allowed the vast number of sailors who are too light for a Finn to compete?

 

And while the Finn's a great boat, what is 'the essence of singlehanding'? For some people, the 'essence of singlehanding' may be the incredible wave-slicing efficiency of an A Class cat or Canoe (the original singlehander), or the speed of a Formula board, or the leading-edge appeal of a MPS or Moth, or the simplicity and big fleets of a Laser. Why is the Finn more "essence-ial" than those?

 

And btw, it's not as if the Finn has evolved to adopt all modern technology; it's not as if it's adopted all the things that have been widely adopted post '52, like traps, lightweight hulls with chines, kites, racks, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're trying to tell me that the local level of laser racing was helped by the Olympics? Bullshit!! The local Tuesday/Sunday dinghy racing used to be quite strong. Now you only see a larger turn out if there is going to be a large event locally. The laser purchase price almost doubled overnight, in Canada, when they received status. How is this good for the class?

 

The olympics ceased to be about the athletes long ago. It is now just a bloated marketing machine making millions off the backs of the athletes who often live below the average poverty line.

 

I'm not trying to tell you any such thing. My comment was about the people who sail at Olympic level, not the impact of the Olympics an any particular class. I deduce that you have had no exposure to the sailors at that level and, as a weekend warrior in a backwater, think that everyone else should be cut down to your level. Sorry, I don't agree.

 

And I owned my first Laser way back in the early 70's, when the class (wisely) refused Olypic status until it had reached a critical mass large enough that Olympic status would not impact negatively. The Laser has been an Olympic class for quite some time now and club racing doesn't appear to have died away in most of the world. Look to local factors if that is your experience. Those local factors could include the growth of other classes that are easier to sail, or easier to win in, than the Laser - which is definitely hard on both counts. But we were talking of killing camaraderie, not fleet sizes. Different argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The truly strong classes in sailing, the star or laser, really don't need the Olympics. If it weren't for the Olympics who would sail a Yngling?

 

Mate you need to look outside the USA a bit.

 

The Star wouldn't be sailed in half the world if it wasn't an Olympic class. Like most keelboats its got a pretty limited geographical distribution. Really strong - don't make me laugh, here in Pomland, one of the stronger sailing nations, I've only ever seen one sailing once... Unlike the Laser the Star desperately needs the games to keep credibility, which is why the top end of the class management jump through every hoop and butter every parsnip to keep it there.

 

And the Yngling was and presumably will remain a viable International class without the games. To the best of my knowledge the class didn't even push for it to be in the games: it only got the nod because it was the only remotely suitable keelboat class with anything approaching worldwide fleets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kiting is well suited to windward leewards just like windsurfing; I think for people who have not followed the recent changes in kiting, they might be interested to know that a kite can now hold a formula board in W-L courses as long as the wind is about 8 knots and up - sometimes formula quicker, sometimes kite quicker - which basically means the kiters can now smoke any of the displacement dinghies (lasers, finns, etc), any of the planing 2 man older boats (FDs, 470s, etc), most of the cats and they must be (an expert can interject here) somewhere around the pace of I guess a formula board which is formula 18 cat, slightly older skiff, musto skiff or slower foiling moth type pace.

 

That's pretty frigging quick.

 

Only problem is like formula windsurfing, they ideally need a minimum wind strength to get going; however they can go very big on the kites so maybe that is around min strength 6-7knots, similar to formula. Big problem if the wind is lower than that, which is why we have the RSX and prior to that the long boards which allow windsurf racing in displacement mode in even 2-3 knots of wind; formula is planing only windsurfing.

 

Kite gear is relatively cheap....if a box rule we will see some extremely expensive stuff emerging, so OD is the way to go most likely.

 

I suspect if pushed to an olympic level, we will see kiting course racing become a fringe sport within kiting, just as windsurfing in the olympics is a fringe sport within windsurfing; however probably even more so. Also, the excitement of massive tangles and stuff will be a fun thing to see and deal with. They will push racing and W-Ls are simple - a soul patrol contest of wanky jumps and judging is not the way the olympics like to roll these days; the extra effort of setting lots of slalom marks is not needed as downwind, they gybe just like skiffs and sportboats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kiting is well suited to windward leewards just like windsurfing; I think for people who have not followed the recent changes in kiting, they might be interested to know that a kite can now hold a formula board in W-L courses as long as the wind is about 8 knots and up - sometimes formula quicker, sometimes kite quicker - which basically means the kiters can now smoke any of the displacement dinghies (lasers, finns, etc), any of the planing 2 man older boats (FDs, 470s, etc), most of the cats and they must be (an expert can interject here) somewhere around the pace of I guess a formula board which is formula 18 cat, slightly older skiff, musto skiff or slower foiling moth type pace.

 

That's pretty frigging quick.

 

Only problem is like formula windsurfing, they ideally need a minimum wind strength to get going; however they can go very big on the kites so maybe that is around min strength 6-7knots, similar to formula. Big problem if the wind is lower than that, which is why we have the RSX and prior to that the long boards which allow windsurf racing in displacement mode in even 2-3 knots of wind; formula is planing only windsurfing.

 

Kite gear is relatively cheap....if a box rule we will see some extremely expensive stuff emerging, so OD is the way to go most likely.

 

I suspect if pushed to an olympic level, we will see kiting course racing become a fringe sport within kiting, just as windsurfing in the olympics is a fringe sport within windsurfing; however probably even more so. Also, the excitement of massive tangles and stuff will be a fun thing to see and deal with. They will push racing and W-Ls are simple - a soul patrol contest of wanky jumps and judging is not the way the olympics like to roll these days; the extra effort of setting lots of slalom marks is not needed as downwind, they gybe just like skiffs and sportboats.

 

 

The issue is not whether kiteboards can do W/L courses but why the hell they would want to.

I agree that it should be a racing format not a skills format (which is better placed in the X-Games), but I still see that a downwind format with skill features would be more closely linked to general kite skills.

Its a similar deal with snowboarding, sure there's slalom and GS on boards just like on skis... but these are definitely fringe activities. boardercross gets more participation, and more tv time.

 

Picking the appropriate venue for kiteboarding downwind lets you put the competition right on the beach instead of way out in the harbor for a W/L.

 

My main point here is that there are better models for 'olympic' kiteboarding than olympic sailing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The truly strong classes in sailing, the star or laser, really don't need the Olympics. If it weren't for the Olympics who would sail a Yngling?

 

Mate you need to look outside the USA a bit.

 

The Star wouldn't be sailed in half the world if it wasn't an Olympic class. Like most keelboats its got a pretty limited geographical distribution. Really strong - don't make me laugh, here in Pomland, one of the stronger sailing nations, I've only ever seen one sailing once... Unlike the Laser the Star desperately needs the games to keep credibility, which is why the top end of the class management jump through every hoop and butter every parsnip to keep it there.

 

And the Yngling was and presumably will remain a viable International class without the games. To the best of my knowledge the class didn't even push for it to be in the games: it only got the nod because it was the only remotely suitable keelboat class with anything approaching worldwide fleets.

 

you need to look outside of the UK a bit

 

the star class wopuld continue to be sailed by the worlds best sailors, because they enjoy the boat and the competition. the star worlds is still more important for most of them than the gold medal, and there are plenty of folks that would be happy if the boat was not an olympic class because they figure it would drop the prices to club friendly levels

 

and the yngling was and remains a retarded boat, esspecially for the olympics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You make some good points about kiting (how will they fit the broadcasting schedule when they need consistent wind to even float?) but saying that the Laser "tainted the pool" is a pretty big call - what about the fact that the Laser allowed the vast number of sailors who are too light for a Finn to compete?

 

And while the Finn's a great boat, what is 'the essence of singlehanding'? For some people, the 'essence of singlehanding' may be the incredible wave-slicing efficiency of an A Class cat or Canoe (the original singlehander), or the speed of a Formula board, or the leading-edge appeal of a MPS or Moth, or the simplicity and big fleets of a Laser. Why is the Finn more "essence-ial" than those?

 

And btw, it's not as if the Finn has evolved to adopt all modern technology; it's not as if it's adopted all the things that have been widely adopted post '52, like traps, lightweight hulls with chines, kites, racks, etc.

 

#1, traps aren't a modern technology, someone put a trap on a I14 in 1938. #2, would be kinda difficult putting a trap on a non stayed cat rig, wouldn't it? Same goes for a chute. A Finn is what it is, and it's not pretending to be something it isn't. It's not a lightweight hull with chines, it's a nice, rounded beast with a fine entry and a flat exit. It's evolution has gone from wood hulls, wood masts, and cotton sails, to carbon hulls, carbon masts, and plastic sails. With a couple other things like carbon rudders and booms, but still the shape of the boat and it's original design specs have been maintained. You want a singlehander with a trap, buy a Contender. You want racks, get a Moth. You want a classic design that has withstood the test of time by adopting new rig technology, and yet remains one of the most competitive boats to sail well because of it's unique challenges, then get a Finn. Why is it that so many Finn sailors have gone on to become some of the greatest sailors in the world in all kinds of different boats? Because of the things they learned from Finn sailing. And true, a IC may have been around longer, but it's evolution has gone on to involve variants, and it was never an Olympic class, either. Which doesn't mean everything, as was previously stated in the Yngling remark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We spoke with John Craig, race manager at the StFYC, the birthplace of the course racing concept. One of the things we queried him with

was why not set up some tight gate marks on the beach (inside marks 30 meters or so from shore) and put a reaching mark outside where

the competitors could go out and around. Do two laps in each heat enduro style. Lots of crashing and burning, overtaking and excitment for the

crowds on the beach and the media. Reply was they had to follow established protocol if they want to gain support and acceptance of the ISAF and hopefully the IOC,

if kiteboarding is to make it there...

 

They do bordercross in the winter games...me thinks it would be awesome, constant heats of 10 sailors doing 2 laps with a dozen gates right on the beach. Best 5 advance till

its the final four than balls out for the gold... ;) Even better, go to Waddell Creek and toss in some jumps.....yeeee haaaaaa

 

You see this is exactly where an Olympic bid ends up screwing everything up.

 

Squeezing kiteboarding into the narrow restrictions of a sailing race, (which are great for sailing) just makes a mess of what could be a really good, challenging, athletic event.

Instead of creating something really great, with unique features highlighting the things kiteboards do really well you end up with a tiny niche sport that no-one who participates in kite sailing really cares about, and in addition you put further pressure on sailing slots in the summer games.

 

If kiteboarding makes it in under the ISAF umbrella guess what.. IOC will be asking ISAF to cut another class.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ISAF, as it stands in relation to kiting,

is a bunch of Ass-clowns/Trolls,

looking to skim money out of a popular sport that has so far escaped the hegemony

mainly because it requires only a little investment of money, but more athletic skill,

while conferring no "upper-class" status image on its participants, and therefore attracting limited advertising interest..

Now that the sport has grown, they see potential to harvest seven figure sums out of national/international entry fees.

 

So here comes ISAF with promises of Olympic gold, and strong-arm tactics,

allying with some johnny-come-lately organization called IKA to take over a kiting pro tour

and ban entry to anyone that competes in any other pro kite tour.

Look: http://www.internationalkiteboarding.org/i...&Itemid=154

 

There is another sub rosa agenda, which is to skim more and more money by controlling instruction in the sport, and ultimately, controlling access to the water. Instruction is virtually essential in kiting as there are a few non-intuitive things to learn, and high potential for severe injury if the safety practices aren't mastered. Because of this, kiting instruction or demonstration of competence of some kind is required in many areas already.

Unfortunately, there is not a great record of consistency or quality in these endeavours, and in popular areas, disputes over access and rules crop up regularly. There seems to be a correlation between the amount of "organization" and the amount of reported problems in various areas. This relates partly to certain areas being crowded, and partly to the organizations and local authorities forcing each other to take positions, rather than accomodate each other more flexibly. The IKA/ISAF combo is merely the latest "kite-cabal" to try to horn in on the sport and exact a tax from all participants. There have been others in the past...

I remain highly skeptical of the possibility they will accomplish anything good, remembering the speed record fiasco of last year, in which they pissed off everyone, finally caved, and breathed a sigh of relief when Hydroptere finally beat the kiters again.

 

 

I would not really mind seeing kiting in the olympics, but it is fine with me if it takes a while longer, and ultimately it doesn't matter that much to the sport.

The technology is almost ready, but the state of competition is in great flux, due in part to the economic mess.

 

If it does happen, under the ISAF/IKA or otherwise,

the best formats I think would be slalom and a point-to-point series of 10-20km races approximating a triangle or W course,

with a reaching leg (S) along a coast for spectators. If there is surf, that would be nice, with a couple of gates inside the surf zone.

Not many places can dish this out, but the surf would be only an added challenge, not a place to garner "style points."

If they have a freestyle or "surf" competition, sorry, I am not interested.

 

Real freestyle is free, and real surf follows its own schedule, not a TV schedule!

 

And there should be a 10 or 12 knot wind minimum, speed is essential!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I but the surf would be only an added challenge, not a place to garner "style points."

 

 

absolutely

hence my comparison with kayak slalom or boardercross.

any features (natural or otherwise) would be skill features/obstacles, the result would just be about how fast you get through the course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Coarse racing in a kite is in such a development right now that you couldn't set a "one design" board or kite design. Unless these are established you could hardly expect a level playing field.

 

I would say that I think W/L racing for kiteboard would be a waste of time.

I'd rather see something a zig zag slalom, with plenty of separation with a premium on kite handling, and choice of wave conditions. Modeling kite racing on kayak slalom, or even boarder cross makes more sense than modeling it on one design sailboat racing.

Courses could include ramps and features, turns close to a beach (i.e. marks in less than 1ft of water) and even 'gap' jumps, set up to allow sailors to either jump over or go around a section.

 

Moving kite racing a long way from sailing would be a good plan... especially to avoid loosing sailing 'slots' to kite athletes.

 

Definitely whats needed. Pro Windsurfing had a format called Super X, which was similar to what you've described, downwind slaloms with jumps over inflatable and obligatory tricks between sections - http://www.helium.com/items/1430447-helium...r-x-windsurfing so something similar for KB would be a great idea for the olympics.

 

I'd really really like to see something like, Moth (mix of course and slaloms), Laser Men , Laser Radial Women, 49er (men), 29er xx or similar (women) , MR Men, MR Women, Kite (men), Kite (women) and team racing (open) as the disciplines. If anyone thinks MR is dull then watch the Monsoon Cup footage, ditto the Wilson Trophy for TR. I suppose we'd have to shove cats back in there too..

 

Still it's all going to be a bit pointless - Opti worlds this year were in Rio in early-mid aug (as per olympics) and the breeze was poor to shitty most of the time...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You make some good points about kiting (how will they fit the broadcasting schedule when they need consistent wind to even float?) but saying that the Laser "tainted the pool" is a pretty big call - what about the fact that the Laser allowed the vast number of sailors who are too light for a Finn to compete?

 

And while the Finn's a great boat, what is 'the essence of singlehanding'? For some people, the 'essence of singlehanding' may be the incredible wave-slicing efficiency of an A Class cat or Canoe (the original singlehander), or the speed of a Formula board, or the leading-edge appeal of a MPS or Moth, or the simplicity and big fleets of a Laser. Why is the Finn more "essence-ial" than those?

 

And btw, it's not as if the Finn has evolved to adopt all modern technology; it's not as if it's adopted all the things that have been widely adopted post '52, like traps, lightweight hulls with chines, kites, racks, etc.

 

#1, traps aren't a modern technology, someone put a trap on a I14 in 1938.

 

Traps were used in other classes (Singaporean sailing canoes and Auckland M classers) before they were used in I-14s, but were banned and unpopular until after the Finn was created; in general use they are more modern than the Finn

 

#2, would be kinda difficult putting a trap on a non stayed cat rig, wouldn't it? Same goes for a chute.

 

You could probably put a trap on if you want, just as you can certainly put a kite on an unstayed rig (just ask Finnster Luca Devoti....the point is that the Finn isn't ahead of many other classes in its use of technology.A Finn is what it is, and it's not pretending to be something it isn't. It's not a lightweight hull with chines, it's a nice, rounded beast with a fine entry and a flat exit. It's evolution has gone from wood hulls, wood masts, and cotton sails, to carbon hulls, carbon masts, and plastic sails. With a couple other things like carbon rudders and booms, but still the shape of the boat and it's original design specs have been maintained. You want a singlehander with a trap, buy a Contender. You want racks, get a Moth. You want a classic design that has withstood the test of time by adopting new rig technology, and yet remains one of the most competitive boats to sail well because of it's unique challenges, then get a Finn. Why is it that so many Finn sailors have gone on to become some of the greatest sailors in the world in all kinds of different boats? Because of the things they learned from Finn sailing. And many of the top Finn sailors -Ainslie, Coutts, etc - came from the Laser, the class that supposedly 'tainted' the Olympic sailing pool. They went on to become great Finn sailors because of the things they learned from Laser sailing, so why claim it taints what it touches?And true, a IC may have been around longer, but it's evolution has gone on to involve variants, and it was never an Olympic class, either. Which doesn't mean everything, as was previously stated in the Yngling remark.

 

I'll end the hijack here, but to repeat what I said earlier - you made some good points and the Finn's a great and historic boat. The point is that it's not the be-all and end-all or 'the essence of singlehanding', it's nothing special in its adoption of technology, and (mainly) there's no reason to denigrate another great class (the Laser) just to promote the Finn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well seeing as they do drug tests in the olympics might be some riders out there that would have stop some of their "extracurricular" activities

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just read the front page article that goes with this issue. And my question to the regatta organizers out there is, would you ban a sailor from your event if then happened to also do some competative kite boarding?

 

A big NO on that one for me and ISAF need to think carefully about whether they would have any grass root support for such a move.

 

Where does that leave SimonNs argument of "they assume the power but they do not use it" ... or "if there is a pound of flesh then we want ours" as it would seem to be better stated?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just read the front page article that goes with this issue. And my question to the regatta organizers out there is, would you ban a sailor from your event if then happened to also do some competative kite boarding?

 

There's an alternative perspective here...

 

http://www.yachtsponsorship.com/2009/12/ca...ercial-sailing/

 

I don't have a dog in this fight at all, but have got to ask whether kiteboarding really wants to end up like boxing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as someone who does a bit of kiting...,

 

kiteboard _racing_ is not ready for olympic consideration yet.

 

The competition is just too thin to justify an olympic medal. there are too few participants worldwide, and the number of kiters who have competed in more than say 10 events, is tiny.

 

only a few countries have even held kiteboard racing events, and even within those countries, the events are not generally well attended.

 

in order to be an olympic sport, the IOC requires that there be good competition in many countries.

 

we're just not there yet.

 

judged kiteboard competitions are arguably a different matter entirely - those have been held for years, with huge attendance, and a pretty high level of competition. personally - like most of sailing i find it kind of boring to watch after a few minutes, but i accept that people will watch it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just read the front page article that goes with this issue. And my question to the regatta organizers out there is, would you ban a sailor from your event if then happened to also do some competative kite boarding?

 

A big NO on that one for me and ISAF need to think carefully about whether they would have any grass root support for such a move.

 

Where does that leave SimonNs argument of "they assume the power but they do not use it" ... or "if there is a pound of flesh then we want ours" as it would seem to be better stated?

Why has ISAF created rules that it doesn't enforce? It's just making a mockery of it's self and at the same time putting of promoters who want to do things above the board (i.e. with out creating some crazy liability where ISAF turns up once things are off the ground and says "all right lads, lets take a look shall we") leaving the way clear for those with a more cavalier attitude.

 

I don't have a problem with multi body sports. It puts the power where it should be and that's with the competitors. The most credible World Championship is usually pretty easy to work out, particularly if the players are aloud the freedom to play in any of them.

 

What that article appears to be missing is that the other sporting bodies deliver media interest to the professional teams. That's how they are able to lay down the fines etc. They have product that the teams can make money out of. Call it prize money if you like but in fact they pay the teams to be part of it. ISAF is all carrot and no stick. ISAF might be waking up to this but it doesn't have that at the moment. They appear to be trying to build something round the olympic classes while letting any one who 'got there first' through the gate scott free. No other sport that I can think off puts all it's eggs in one basket in that way. They may manage Olympianism alongside professionalism but they are rarely the same vehicle. The Olympics are something that leads to the professional side off the sport (boxing) or something the professionals do on their holidays for Queen and Country (tennis). That's not so different to where sailing is now, so why are they looking to make the Olympics the professional side of the game as well?

 

Mind you the teat to suck on that they do know all about pedaling is the Olympics so it's no wonder that's where their pushing foward.

 

I don't know if it's a deliberate policy or not but things are working in that direction here in Ireland slowly. If you're a team looking to get exposure here in order to find sponsorship then the coverage on the national news that the national body arranged with RTE for the All Ireland Sailing Championships or the hour long doc for Volvo Dun Laoghaire Week on Sky Sports (an email went round to every one asking if there was anyone with a story to tell) can only attract you to certain events when you might have gone else where otherwise.

 

We're only just off the ground but that's essentially what we'll try to do with the match racing here too. One of our key objectives is around access to competitive sailing for sailors in their 20s who haven't got the earning power to afford it them selves, and doing what we can to enable them to find alternative funding sources is obviously a good thing to do in that regard.

 

As for kiteboarding it looks to me like a certain group has pushed in the ISAF/Olympic dirrection with out any ground swell of support form the rest of the sport. May be they are the minority out on a lim who should back off in order to save kiteboarding from becoming like boxing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm tired of the

We're watching this one closely, and not just because we love kiteboarding (and we think it should be in the Olympics anyway). We're watching because an organization is using the ultimate bullshit weapon at their disposal to exclude people from a sport, and that weapon was created and fostered by ISAF. Threatening exclusion of competitors from an event simply because they raced in another event is a pathetic way to make people join your organization, and constitutes an admission that your event or class isn't good enough to attract and retain people without the threat of expulsion.

 

At least ISAF has an excuse; sailing has been run for a long time by folks with exclusion in their blood. Kiteboarding has no such excuse

 

bullshit. (the underlined bit)

 

this weapon has been used over and over by various different sport.

Exactly the same think happened with snowboarding, (FIS vs IFS) with the same threats of exclusion.

This is not an ISAF specific thing, and its not something they invented.

 

Call it bullshit.. fine but stop whining on and on about it being something ISAF invented and only they do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Neither the IKA nor the IKF is the oficial representatives for kiteboarding.

 

I am.

 

I hereby give anybody who wants to go kiteboarding or organize a kiteboarding event my permission to do so without paying me a fee or having any of my bureuacrats step all over your fun.

 

(the point being that_______________)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you just made it your fault when some one dies WbS!

 

BASE has the 'tude though. So dangerous (1 in 20 chance that you will end your BASE career by dieing, and the other 19 end up hospitalized seems to be the acknowledged statistic) that none of the gear is certified, which apparently is a great thing and encourages experimentation and development with in the sport, and the conveyer belt to death ... sorry ... instruction is out there but mentoring a heavy part of the game. Add in a code of ethics based on not screwing it up for every one else when you kill your self and away you go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think you just made it your fault when some one dies WbS!

 

BASE has the 'tude though. So dangerous (1 in 20 chance that you will end your BASE career by dieing, and the other 19 end up hospitalized seems to be the acknowledged statistic) that none of the gear is certified, which apparently is a great thing and encourages experimentation and development with in the sport, and the conveyer belt to death ... sorry ... instruction is out there but mentoring a heavy part of the game. Add in a code of ethics based on not screwing it up for every one else when you kill your self and away you go.

stop being silly.

 

are you suggesting the AAA responsible for auto accidents or the NRA responsible for shooting injuries?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IKA sucks my left nut so hard it makes my right one jealous. Works to restrict access to beaches unless you're a member and buy their shitty insurance which has so many exemptions I doubt it would pay out on any kind of claim. They also keep spamming me to join even though I'm not a member and I've never given them my email address.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Coarse racing in a kite is in such a development right now that you couldn't set a "one design" board or kite design. Unless these are established you could hardly expect a level playing field.

 

 

I don't think this is true.

Costs for kites and boards are relatively small, I don't think there's any more need for 'one design' for kiteboard racing than for one design in rowing boats. Good box rule and let them typeform.

 

I would say that I think W/L racing for kiteboard would be a waste of time.

I'd rather see something a zig zag slalom, with plenty of separation with a premium on kite handling, and choice of wave conditions. Modeling kite racing on kayak slalom, or even boarder cross makes more sense than modeling it on one design sailboat racing.

Courses could include ramps and features, turns close to a beach (i.e. marks in less than 1ft of water) and even 'gap' jumps, set up to allow sailors to either jump over or go around a section.

 

 

Moving kite racing a long way from sailing would be a good plan... especially to avoid loosing sailing 'slots' to kite athletes.

 

Like Mario Kart!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of thoughts from a pro-sailor (I make my living in the industry, try to anyway) and 10 year kite boarder:

 

- Since kiting is not considered sailing why would one of the sail classes have to be eliminated to make room for kiting in the olympics?

- Kiting still has not made it to the X-games or even any coverage on Fuel TV so it is a far cry to think the powers that be would accept this sport into the olympics. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try and my hat is off to the visionaries of our sport (kiting) that see it in that light.

- The only discipline of kiting that even slightly resembles sailing is the course racing, it is still in its infancy but would make for an OK event. In the US we would never get to see any coverage on TV, put a free-style or wave-kiting contest in the olympics and there you go!

- Any light air in future olympic venues and the event would be a bust

- Kiting is reaching a its carrying capacity in certain areas where there simply is not room for more newbies, more exposure will lead to more people, good for the manufacturers but bad for the riders in some areas. Access is an issue that we face constantly and have to fight not get banned often.

- If US Sailing wants to attract and retain more youth sailors things like kiting are a must for the future but kiting in general is a dangerous sport with a risk factor much higher than most forms of sailing. A high level of insurance for events would be a must.

- Gebhardt has some great points about the sport and identifies why it is the fastest growing water sport in the world now but it has taken almost 10 years for kiting to even reach the general sailing public and I suspect will take much longer to be accepted

- Most of the sailing events and classes are pretty stale (some exceptions), look at a video of a PKWT event and it will blow your mind!

 

It would be great to see kiting get the recognition it deserves but most of the pro-kiters could probably care less about it getting into the olympics unless it meant bigger checks and more sponsors. Kiting is a bit like surfing in that only a kiter knows the feeling and it takes a fair commitiment to get to feel it! It is not like going for a slog on any one of the numerous 6 knot shit boxes that we call sailing, maybe the general sailing public and the olympics are not ready for kiting, yet.

 

Regardless kiters will continue to push the limits and blow our minds, can't wait to see the first kiter on a 100 foot wave and/or 200 foot high jump from flat water!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was it not clear from the front page story that this whole Olympic bid has nothing to do with the Olympics?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Was it not clear from the front page story that this whole Olympic bid has nothing to do with the Olympics?

 

Yes I get it, its about leverage and the BS that goes on with ISAF but it is not often that kiters can voice opinions in this type of forum so I did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Was it not clear from the front page story that this whole Olympic bid has nothing to do with the Olympics?

 

Also very cool to see the coverage you guys have been giving kiting lately! A far cry form the first couple of shit kite pieces run a few years back. Keep them coming!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kiting is rad. Why wouldn't we cover it? So many of us do it - it is clearly a crossover for sailors, just as windsurfing is, and it's exciting and full of hot chicks. Seems made for SA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kiting is rad. Why wouldn't we cover it? So many of us do it - it is clearly a crossover for sailors, just as windsurfing is, and it's exciting and full of hot chicks. Seems made for SA.

 

Right-on Clean! More sailors should give it a shot and the chicks go without saying, cool thing is not only do you get the bikini beach bunnies but also some really hot girls that rip. SA didn't always have that opinion of kiting and it is great to see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're not kidding. Check out the KPWT site for some highlighting of the assets of the female riders. And I bet they all like to party too.

Picture_2.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A couple of thoughts from a pro-sailor (I make my living in the industry, try to anyway) and 10 year kite boarder:

 

- Since kiting is not considered sailing why would one of the sail classes have to be eliminated to make room for kiting in the olympics?

 

 

because the bid is from the IKA, who are aiming to make kiteboarding a 'class' of sailing.

 

The chances are that if this bid is accepted and ultimately lead to a kiteboard competition in the summer Olympics, that event will be introduced as a class of sailing......

which lead to ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
because the bid is from the IKA, who are aiming to make kiteboarding a 'class' of sailing.

Thanks to ISAF, they have already done exactly that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
because the bid is from the IKA, who are aiming to make kiteboarding a 'class' of sailing.

Thanks to ISAF, they have already done exactly that.

 

Anyone up for Kite Anarchy Forum?

 

What are the related sites around the net that are edgy for

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

kiteforum.com is big, international, has a mix of normal riders, clueless hacks, trolls, industry people and a fair bit of gear pimping -good, but some do know it as "kookforum".

Hanglos.net is a big European site, seems more of a content aggregator really, don't go there as much...

the "ikitesurf" arm of sailflow has forums, so-so in quality,

and there are lots o' regional/national ones.

off list for more....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just make it a big air contest. Done, get it over with. That's all we want to see. Long time kiter here. :huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just make it a big air contest. Done, get it over with. That's all we want to see. Long time kiter here. :huh:

 

Shit. Sorry guys, forgot to turn on the invisible fence.

 

C'mon, Salty, jump in the truck. Back to your thread....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites