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MHOB J29

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Oh Please...

If you are not going to concede that the J35 fills that role (US Sailing Hall of Fame design), then at least have the decency to admit that the J125 is the business.

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Nah definitely not. that honor goes to the J/27 ;)

 

What He Says

 

except (as much as I hate the boat) the J24 is the one that started it all AND how many thousands of them are there and how big are the J24 OD fleets (the last J29 fleet I saw had 2 MHOB, 1 MHIB, 2 FRIB...not very OD)

 

On top of this all was the fact that the J29 was born out of the need to save money , thus taking the J30 and making it a bare bones boat.

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On top of this all was the fact that the J29 was born out of the need to save money , thus taking the J30 and making it a bare bones boat.

 

Are you suggesting that the J-29 is just a J-30 with the headroom removed?

:P

 

Besides, the J-29 would be a MUCH better boat if they put a frac rig & an inboard diesel on it.

 

FB- Doug

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On top of this all was the fact that the J29 was born out of the need to save money , thus taking the J30 and making it a bare bones boat.

 

Are you suggesting that the J-29 is just a J-30 with the headroom removed?

:P

 

Besides, the J-29 would be a MUCH better boat if they put a frac rig & an inboard diesel on it.

 

FB- Doug

 

JSM2006_0525_141126AA.JPG

 

Fraction rig J/29 with inboard. Used to sail against it 3/4 years ago, fast boat.

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In terms of results and longevity then the 35 must have it over other boats in the diverse J Boats range. The J44 was an awesome winning machine too but I agree with Darwin the 125 still looks great and was ahead of its time in terms of construction and design, just like its younger sister the J90. Shame more of these boats weren't sold.

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On top of this all was the fact that the J29 was born out of the need to save money , thus taking the J30 and making it a bare bones boat.

 

Are you suggesting that the J-29 is just a J-30 with the headroom removed?

:P

 

Besides, the J-29 would be a MUCH better boat if they put a frac rig & an inboard diesel on it.

 

FB- Doug

 

JSM2006_0525_141126AA.JPG

 

Fraction rig J/29 with inboard. Used to sail against it 3/4 years ago, fast boat.

 

 

Not around these parts.................................gotta have that extra sail area, at least in the spin.

 

And the J35 is ahead in the game, not that I'm prejudiced or anything..............................

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At best it's, like eighth down the list... it's actually slower than the 27 in breeze and chop.

rankings more like this

J/125

j/90

j/27

j/33

j/35

j/80

j/44

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what criteria are we supposed to use??? Fastest?? Best looking?? biggest OD class?? Longevity???

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At best it's, like eighth down the list... it's actually slower than the 27 in breeze and chop.

rankings more like this

J/125

j/90

j/27

j/33

j/35

j/80

j/44

Jay,

This whole discussion is opinion based but to inject some reality here: no way no how does a J27 beat a J29 in breeze or otherwise

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On top of this all was the fact that the J29 was born out of the need to save money , thus taking the J30 and making it a bare bones boat.

 

Are you suggesting that the J-29 is just a J-30 with the headroom removed?

:P

 

Besides, the J-29 would be a MUCH better boat if they put a frac rig & an inboard diesel on it.

 

 

J-29 MHOB is the perfect WLIS boat, not underpowered in light air and a great rating to boot. No wonder Espo cleans up.

 

J-30 is a great boat but really likes wind over 8 knots. Under that it becomes painful. Way way way way underpowered.

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At best it's, like eighth down the list... it's actually slower than the 27 in breeze and chop.

rankings more like this

J/125

j/90

j/27

j/33

j/35

j/80

j/44

Jay,

This whole discussion is opinion based but to inject some reality here: no way no how does a J27 beat a J29 in breeze or otherwise

Back ~1984, I remember reading about how the J/27 that was overall winner of MORC Internationals sailed faster than the J/29 that won Class A.

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At best it's, like eighth down the list... it's actually slower than the 27 in breeze and chop.

rankings more like this

J/125

j/90

j/27

j/33

j/35

j/80

j/44

Jay,

This whole discussion is opinion based but to inject some reality here: no way no how does a J27 beat a J29 in breeze or otherwise

 

 

you cant make a claim like that because one 27 beat one 29 in one regatta. Ive sailed on a 27 that won multiple NAs and a 29 that has won multiple NAs

there is no way a 27 can beat a MHOB 29 in any conditions.

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J-30 is a great boat but really likes wind over 8 knots. Under that it becomes painful. Way way way way underpowered.

 

Not with the ODR rating. A 163% headsail, OSOP due to allowing a +1 ft J. That boat has a soft rating almost everywhere.

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At best it's, like eighth down the list... it's actually slower than the 27 in breeze and chop.

rankings more like this

J/125

j/90

j/27

j/33

j/35

j/80

j/44

Jay,

This whole discussion is opinion based but to inject some reality here: no way no how does a J27 beat a J29 in breeze or otherwise

 

You can say that again. Maybe if it was an all offwind distance race in big breeze, but W/L not a chance.

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Discuss....

Nah definitely not. that honor goes to the J/27 ;)

 

What He Says

 

except (as much as I hate the boat) the J24 is the one that started it all AND how many thousands of them are there and how big are the J24 OD fleets (the last J29 fleet I saw had 2 MHOB, 1 MHIB, 2 FRIB...not very OD)

 

On top of this all was the fact that the J29 was born out of the need to save money , thus taking the J30 and making it a bare bones boat.

 

The 29 was an easy, quick way of building a competitive MORC boat. It is a "race version"(stripped interior, lower freeboard, deeper keel, lighter, more SA in MH at least) of a J30 hull.

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On top of this all was the fact that the J29 was born out of the need to save money , thus taking the J30 and making it a bare bones boat.

 

Are you suggesting that the J-29 is just a J-30 with the headroom removed?

:P

 

Besides, the J-29 would be a MUCH better boat if they put a frac rig & an inboard diesel on it.

 

FB- Doug

 

They should have ALL been MHIB. Then my back wouldn't hurt every time I pull the outboard off the back of mine.

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At best it's, like eighth down the list... it's actually slower than the 27 in breeze and chop.

rankings more like this

J/125

j/90

j/27

j/33

j/35

j/80

j/44

Jay,

This whole discussion is opinion based but to inject some reality here: no way no how does a J27 beat a J29 in breeze or otherwise

 

 

you cant make a claim like that because one 27 beat one 29 in one regatta. Ive sailed on a 27 that won multiple NAs and a 29 that has won multiple NAs

there is no way a 27 can beat a MHOB 29 in any conditions.

 

 

For most conditions I would agree after all the 29 MHOB owes a 27 ? 12 - 18/mile ?. However, J/27 surfs better and sooner than a 29 and will eventually plane. Those and reaching conditions it is a giant killer and can be faster than any 29 due to its more efficient shape.

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I have been on a J29 exactly twice.

 

One of the very first hulls about a month after the boat came out and then to walk across one that was rafted up.

 

So next to no knowledge here.

 

But from what I understand there are four versions? two rigs and two engine options?

 

Why all the love for this boat? But there are four versions correct?

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At best it's, like eighth down the list... it's actually slower than the 27 in breeze and chop.

rankings more like this

J/125

j/90

j/27

j/33

j/35

j/80

j/44

Jay,

This whole discussion is opinion based but to inject some reality here: no way no how does a J27 beat a J29 in breeze or otherwise

 

 

you cant make a claim like that because one 27 beat one 29 in one regatta. Ive sailed on a 27 that won multiple NAs and a 29 that has won multiple NAs

there is no way a 27 can beat a MHOB 29 in any conditions.

 

 

For most conditions I would agree after all the 29 MHOB owes a 27 ? 12 - 18/mile ?. However, J/27 surfs better and sooner than a 29 and will eventually plane. Those and reaching conditions it is a giant killer and can be faster than any 29 due to its more efficient shape.

Black,

 

If you are talking about a downhill distance race in heavy air, I might agree with you. But in a standard race, the j29 canes the j27.

 

Will Museler

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For most conditions I would agree after all the 29 MHOB owes a 27 ? 12 - 18/mile ?. However, J/27 surfs better and sooner than a 29 and will eventually plane. Those and reaching conditions it is a giant killer and can be faster than any 29 due to its more efficient shape.

Black,

 

If you are talking about a downhill distance race in heavy air, I might agree with you. But in a standard race, the j29 canes the j27.

 

Will Museler

 

The J29 is a much much better light-air boat, stands a chop better, and most of all it's actually not too painful or cramped for the crew. I've never sailed a J27 and never really wanted to, after seeing them, but I have sailed a couple different J29s against the J27 and never been beaten by one.

 

The word I keep hearing is that the 27 is difficult to keep in the groove. IMHO the J29 is pretty easy & fun to sail.

 

FB- Doug

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J-30 is a great boat but really likes wind over 8 knots. Under that it becomes painful. Way way way way underpowered.

 

Not with the ODR rating. A 163% headsail, OSOP due to allowing a +1 ft J. That boat has a soft rating almost everywhere.

The sail combo that the winning J/30s use on WLIS (Smiles, Forever & Always, etc) is a Dacron Z Sails mainsail and CF Z Sails 155% Genoa. We rate 126 and while it's not a PHRF killer we easially sail to that rating in everything but windspeeds 6-7 and below. Once the TWS climbs over 8 we're fully powered up and kick ass.

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J-30 is a great boat but really likes wind over 8 knots. Under that it becomes painful. Way way way way underpowered.

 

Not with the ODR rating. A 163% headsail, OSOP due to allowing a +1 ft J. That boat has a soft rating almost everywhere.

The sail combo that the winning J/30s use on WLIS (Smiles, Forever & Always, etc) is a Dacron Z Sails mainsail and CF Z Sails 155% Genoa. We rate 126 and while it's not a PHRF killer we easially sail to that rating in everything but windspeeds 6-7 and below. Once the TWS climbs over 8 we're fully powered up and kick ass.

 

 

Considering they rate 144 in the Chesapeake for both PHRF config and ODR (141 for ODR in lower bay) a 126 is a pretty low rating.

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J-30 is a great boat but really likes wind over 8 knots. Under that it becomes painful. Way way way way underpowered.

 

Not with the ODR rating. A 163% headsail, OSOP due to allowing a +1 ft J. That boat has a soft rating almost everywhere.

The sail combo that the winning J/30s use on WLIS (Smiles, Forever & Always, etc) is a Dacron Z Sails mainsail and CF Z Sails 155% Genoa. We rate 126 and while it's not a PHRF killer we easially sail to that rating in everything but windspeeds 6-7 and below. Once the TWS climbs over 8 we're fully powered up and kick ass.

 

 

Considering they rate 144 in the Chesapeake for both PHRF config and ODR (141 for ODR in lower bay) a 126 is a pretty low rating.

Excuse my error, I didn't reread my post. Make that 136 on WLIS. Still, I can see how 144 would be a bit steep.

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J-30 is a great boat but really likes wind over 8 knots. Under that it becomes painful. Way way way way underpowered.

 

Not with the ODR rating. A 163% headsail, OSOP due to allowing a +1 ft J. That boat has a soft rating almost everywhere.

The sail combo that the winning J/30s use on WLIS (Smiles, Forever & Always, etc) is a Dacron Z Sails mainsail and CF Z Sails 155% Genoa. We rate 126 and while it's not a PHRF killer we easially sail to that rating in everything but windspeeds 6-7 and below. Once the TWS climbs over 8 we're fully powered up and kick ass.

 

 

Considering they rate 144 in the Chesapeake for both PHRF config and ODR (141 for ODR in lower bay) a 126 is a pretty low rating.

Excuse my error, I didn't reread my post. Make that 136 on WLIS. Still, I can see how 144 would be a bit steep.

 

Is that with the PHRF 11.5 J or the ODR 12.5 J for the spinnaker and pole?

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J-30 is a great boat but really likes wind over 8 knots. Under that it becomes painful. Way way way way underpowered.

 

Not with the ODR rating. A 163% headsail, OSOP due to allowing a +1 ft J. That boat has a soft rating almost everywhere.

The sail combo that the winning J/30s use on WLIS (Smiles, Forever & Always, etc) is a Dacron Z Sails mainsail and CF Z Sails 155% Genoa. We rate 126 and while it's not a PHRF killer we easially sail to that rating in everything but windspeeds 6-7 and below. Once the TWS climbs over 8 we're fully powered up and kick ass.

 

 

Considering they rate 144 in the Chesapeake for both PHRF config and ODR (141 for ODR in lower bay) a 126 is a pretty low rating.

Excuse my error, I didn't reread my post. Make that 136 on WLIS. Still, I can see how 144 would be a bit steep.

 

Is that with the PHRF 11.5 J or the ODR 12.5 J for the spinnaker and pole?

Doesn't change, we use the same pole for Handicap and OD. Our Non-spin rating is 138 if that helps.

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I have been on a J29 exactly twice.

 

One of the very first hulls about a month after the boat came out and then to walk across one that was rafted up.

 

So next to no knowledge here.

 

But from what I understand there are four versions? two rigs and two engine options?

 

Why all the love for this boat? But there are four versions correct?

 

Sail on a competitive MHOB. Good looking boat, wide side decks and open cockpit is pretty easy on crew. Very simple boat for racing that goes upwind like a freight train and not too shabby downwind as well. Very good feeling helm(unless you are power reaching), and rock solid in breeze.

 

VERY competitive PHRF boat.

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Twenty - seven - all of a 29 and then some in a more compact package.

 

Thats the problem. Narrow side decks, cramped cockpit with coamings that rip up your legs.

 

J27 is for people that don't have any freinds and can't find crew.

 

Both are very good looking boats.

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The purpose of the coaming on the J/27 is to keep your beer can from falling into the cockpit, and well worth any associated pain IMO.

 

I've often wondered why J/Boats does not bring the 27 back as an entry level day sailor ala the J/100 and any number of other boats in that category.

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At best it's, like eighth down the list... it's actually slower than the 27 in breeze and chop.

rankings more like this

J/125

j/90

j/27

j/33

j/35

j/80

j/44

Jay,

This whole discussion is opinion based but to inject some reality here: no way no how does a J27 beat a J29 in breeze or otherwise

 

Dunno who you are, but I was the bowman on the 27 Fast Times and I can tell you that we could most def. kick the crap out of 29s in chop and breeze. Go back and check our record at Key West, SORC, J/fest etc.

Also, go back and check Sailing World's analysis of hiking a few years back wherein they used J/27s and J/29s among others and tested them in various conditions at various amounts of crew hike. In short, you don't have to believe me, it's scientifically proven.

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Oh, and that SW test being about hiking, it was indicating the 27 was faster UPWIND when the breeze got up.

 

Not that a 27-29 shitfight was what this thread was about.... I don't hear anyone arguing with my ranking list.

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Oh, and that SW test being about hiking, it was indicating the 27 was faster UPWIND when the breeze got up.

 

Not that a 27-29 shitfight was what this thread was about.... I don't hear anyone arguing with my ranking list.

 

 

I've raced against a 27 with a 29 here many a times in all sorts of conditions. The 27 was always good competition. I would say that we where about even on who beat who.

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On top of this all was the fact that the J29 was born out of the need to save money , thus taking the J30 and making it a bare bones boat.

 

Are you suggesting that the J-29 is just a J-30 with the headroom removed?

:P

 

Besides, the J-29 would be a MUCH better boat if they put a frac rig & an inboard diesel on it.

 

FB- Doug

 

They should have ALL been MHIB. Then my back wouldn't hurt every time I pull the outboard off the back of mine.

YOU"RE SOFT

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On top of this all was the fact that the J29 was born out of the need to save money , thus taking the J30 and making it a bare bones boat.

 

Are you suggesting that the J-29 is just a J-30 with the headroom removed?

:P

 

Besides, the J-29 would be a MUCH better boat if they put a frac rig & an inboard diesel on it.

 

FB- Doug

 

They should have ALL been MHIB. Then my back wouldn't hurt every time I pull the outboard off the back of mine.

YOU"RE SOFT

Says the man who gets Pitman to bring in the outboard before every race.

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At best it's, like eighth down the list... it's actually slower than the 27 in breeze and chop.

rankings more like this

J/125

j/90

j/27

j/33

j/35

j/80

j/44

Jay,

This whole discussion is opinion based but to inject some reality here: no way no how does a J27 beat a J29 in breeze or otherwise

 

Dunno who you are, but I was the bowman on the 27 Fast Times and I can tell you that we could most def. kick the crap out of 29s in chop and breeze. Go back and check our record at Key West, SORC, J/fest etc.

Also, go back and check Sailing World's analysis of hiking a few years back wherein they used J/27s and J/29s among others and tested them in various conditions at various amounts of crew hike. In short, you don't have to believe me, it's scientifically proven.

I go back to KW and SORC and check the results since 1993, we have never been beat by a J/27, or anywhere else we have raced in the country.

So for all you J/27 Blowhards I say bring the piece of shit 27 to WLIS for a good ol ass whooping.

BRING IT!! please

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On top of this all was the fact that the J29 was born out of the need to save money , thus taking the J30 and making it a bare bones boat.

 

Are you suggesting that the J-29 is just a J-30 with the headroom removed?

:P

 

Besides, the J-29 would be a MUCH better boat if they put a frac rig & an inboard diesel on it.

 

FB- Doug

 

They should have ALL been MHIB. Then my back wouldn't hurt every time I pull the outboard off the back of mine.

YOU"RE SOFT

Says the man who gets Pitman to bring in the outboard before every race.

First off FUCKHEAD it's not Pitman that does it, it's Sailman

Second I'm just smarter that Squalamax

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At best it's, like eighth down the list... it's actually slower than the 27 in breeze and chop.

rankings more like this

J/125

j/90

j/27

j/33

j/35

j/80

j/44

Jay,

This whole discussion is opinion based but to inject some reality here: no way no how does a J27 beat a J29 in breeze or otherwise

 

Dunno who you are, but I was the bowman on the 27 Fast Times and I can tell you that we could most def. kick the crap out of 29s in chop and breeze. Go back and check our record at Key West, SORC, J/fest etc.

Also, go back and check Sailing World's analysis of hiking a few years back wherein they used J/27s and J/29s among others and tested them in various conditions at various amounts of crew hike. In short, you don't have to believe me, it's scientifically proven.

I go back to KW and SORC and check the results since 1993, we have never been beat by a J/27, or anywhere else we have raced in the country.

So for all you J/27 Blowhards I say bring the piece of shit 27 to WLIS for a good ol ass whooping.

BRING IT!! please

 

 

tuck your testosterone back in your pants and go read that the SW article on hiking. they wrung out the boats pretty thoroughly and generally the 29 has a slight edge, but when the wind got up, it was slower by a few secs.

That's just how it is. I'm not a huge fan of the 27 generally. got no bias there. Your 29 bias is pretty well known.

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I've never bothered to open the "Espo is a dick" thread, but after his last couple of posts maybe it's time.

 

I've taken my 27 to Key West 3 times I don't think we were ever in a class with any J/29. Locally it has been 15 years since we raced one and I remember it being fairly even on handicap.

 

As a 27 owner, if I had to pick the best J/Boat of all time I think it has to be the 35.

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The purpose of the coaming on the J/27 is to keep your beer can from falling into the cockpit, and well worth any associated pain IMO.

 

I've often wondered why J/Boats does not bring the 27 back as an entry level day sailor ala the J/100 and any number of other boats in that category.

 

I drink my beer fast enough that I don't have to set it down.

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At best it's, like eighth down the list... it's actually slower than the 27 in breeze and chop.

rankings more like this

J/125

j/90

j/27

j/33

j/35

j/80

j/44

Jay,

This whole discussion is opinion based but to inject some reality here: no way no how does a J27 beat a J29 in breeze or otherwise

 

Dunno who you are, but I was the bowman on the 27 Fast Times and I can tell you that we could most def. kick the crap out of 29s in chop and breeze. Go back and check our record at Key West, SORC, J/fest etc.

Also, go back and check Sailing World's analysis of hiking a few years back wherein they used J/27s and J/29s among others and tested them in various conditions at various amounts of crew hike. In short, you don't have to believe me, it's scientifically proven.

I go back to KW and SORC and check the results since 1993, we have never been beat by a J/27, or anywhere else we have raced in the country.

So for all you J/27 Blowhards I say bring the piece of shit 27 to WLIS for a good ol ass whooping.

BRING IT!! please

 

 

tuck your testosterone back in your pants and go read that the SW article on hiking. they wrung out the boats pretty thoroughly and generally the 29 has a slight edge, but when the wind got up, it was slower by a few secs.

That's just how it is. I'm not a huge fan of the 27 generally. got no bias there. Your 29 bias is pretty well known.

 

Never read that article. Would love to see it. Was it a MH 29 or a frac???? It matters.

 

Espo is pretty biased because he HAS kicked the shit out of everyone up and down the east coast, J27 or any other type of boat, including myself(except for once at 2007 Annapolios NOODS, which I won't let him live down)

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I've never bothered to open the "Espo is a dick" thread, but after his last couple of posts maybe it's time.

 

I've taken my 27 to Key West 3 times I don't think we were ever in a class with any J/29. Locally it has been 15 years since we raced one and I remember it being fairly even on handicap.

 

As a 27 owner, if I had to pick the best J/Boat of all time I think it has to be the 35.

 

Very entertaining reading.

 

Which 27?

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On top of this all was the fact that the J29 was born out of the need to save money , thus taking the J30 and making it a bare bones boat.

 

Are you suggesting that the J-29 is just a J-30 with the headroom removed?

:P

 

Besides, the J-29 would be a MUCH better boat if they put a frac rig & an inboard diesel on it.

 

FB- Doug

 

They should have ALL been MHIB. Then my back wouldn't hurt every time I pull the outboard off the back of mine.

YOU"RE SOFT

 

 

Not soft....just the strongest one on my crew!! That's why YOU don't take your OB off!!! :lol:

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On top of this all was the fact that the J29 was born out of the need to save money , thus taking the J30 and making it a bare bones boat.

 

Are you suggesting that the J-29 is just a J-30 with the headroom removed?

:P

 

Besides, the J-29 would be a MUCH better boat if they put a frac rig & an inboard diesel on it.

 

FB- Doug

 

They should have ALL been MHIB. Then my back wouldn't hurt every time I pull the outboard off the back of mine.

YOU"RE SOFT

 

 

Not soft....just the strongest one on my crew!! That's why YOU don't take your OB off!!! :lol:

Just smarter!

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Oh, and that SW test being about hiking, it was indicating the 27 was faster UPWIND when the breeze got up.

 

Not that a 27-29 shitfight was what this thread was about.... I don't hear anyone arguing with my ranking list.

 

 

J/44 doesn't belong on your list. Apples and oranges...the 29 will kick a 44's ass in WLIS can racing, but take one to Bermuda... :lol:

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Oh, and that SW test being about hiking, it was indicating the 27 was faster UPWIND when the breeze got up.

 

Not that a 27-29 shitfight was what this thread was about.... I don't hear anyone arguing with my ranking list.

 

 

J/44 doesn't belong on your list. Apples and oranges...the 29 will kick a 44's ass in WLIS can racing, but take one to Bermuda... :lol:

 

 

Nah,. I think the 44 belongs, it's a good boat. the question wasn't "what are the best j./boats for light air."

WLIS is pretty specialized, though the conditions are similar to some of the sailing on the Chessie and in NC.

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At best it's, like eighth down the list... it's actually slower than the 27 in breeze and chop.

rankings more like this

J/125

j/90

j/27

j/33

j/35

j/80

j/44

Jay,

This whole discussion is opinion based but to inject some reality here: no way no how does a J27 beat a J29 in breeze or otherwise

 

Dunno who you are, but I was the bowman on the 27 Fast Times and I can tell you that we could most def. kick the crap out of 29s in chop and breeze. Go back and check our record at Key West, SORC, J/fest etc.

Also, go back and check Sailing World's analysis of hiking a few years back wherein they used J/27s and J/29s among others and tested them in various conditions at various amounts of crew hike. In short, you don't have to believe me, it's scientifically proven.

I go back to KW and SORC and check the results since 1993, we have never been beat by a J/27, or anywhere else we have raced in the country.

So for all you J/27 Blowhards I say bring the piece of shit 27 to WLIS for a good ol ass whooping.

BRING IT!! please

 

 

tuck your testosterone back in your pants and go read that the SW article on hiking. they wrung out the boats pretty thoroughly and generally the 29 has a slight edge, but when the wind got up, it was slower by a few secs.

That's just how it is. I'm not a huge fan of the 27 generally. got no bias there. Your 29 bias is pretty well known.

 

Never read that article. Would love to see it. Was it a MH 29 or a frac???? It matters.

 

Espo is pretty biased because he HAS kicked the shit out of everyone up and down the east coast, J27 or any other type of boat, including myself(except for once at 2007 Annapolios NOODS, which I won't let him live down)

 

THis makes no sense as an argument.

Espo is an amazing sailor (almost as good a sailor as he is a shit talker), but that has jack shit to do with whether a 27 is faster than a 29 in a blow and chop.

Put Espo, Will etc on a 27 and they could do equally as well if they dialled it in.

Dunno on the masthead/frac thing, that's a good question. But what's the rating split between the MH and fractional? six secs? nine?

Seems like that was about the advantage the 27 had in breeze, so even if it was MH, claims of a clear speed advantage for the 29 would be bullshit.

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Oh, and that SW test being about hiking, it was indicating the 27 was faster UPWIND when the breeze got up.

 

Not that a 27-29 shitfight was what this thread was about.... I don't hear anyone arguing with my ranking list.

 

 

J/44 doesn't belong on your list. Apples and oranges...the 29 will kick a 44's ass in WLIS can racing, but take one to Bermuda... :lol:

 

 

Nah,. I think the 44 belongs, it's a good boat. the question wasn't "what are the best j./boats for light air."

WLIS is pretty specialized, though the conditions are similar to some of the sailing on the Chessie and in NC.

POint was, horses for courses- off shore in the stink, I'd rather be driving a j/44 than anything else I've ridden, but in LIS in light to moderate breeze a j/92 will leave a SC52 behind- done it! The 44 is a different animal.

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At best it's, like eighth down the list... it's actually slower than the 27 in breeze and chop.

rankings more like this

J/125

j/90

j/27

j/33

j/35

j/80

j/44

Jay,

This whole discussion is opinion based but to inject some reality here: no way no how does a J27 beat a J29 in breeze or otherwise

 

Dunno who you are, but I was the bowman on the 27 Fast Times and I can tell you that we could most def. kick the crap out of 29s in chop and breeze. Go back and check our record at Key West, SORC, J/fest etc.

Also, go back and check Sailing World's analysis of hiking a few years back wherein they used J/27s and J/29s among others and tested them in various conditions at various amounts of crew hike. In short, you don't have to believe me, it's scientifically proven.

I go back to KW and SORC and check the results since 1993, we have never been beat by a J/27, or anywhere else we have raced in the country.

So for all you J/27 Blowhards I say bring the piece of shit 27 to WLIS for a good ol ass whooping.

BRING IT!! please

 

 

tuck your testosterone back in your pants and go read that the SW article on hiking. they wrung out the boats pretty thoroughly and generally the 29 has a slight edge, but when the wind got up, it was slower by a few secs.

That's just how it is. I'm not a huge fan of the 27 generally. got no bias there. Your 29 bias is pretty well known.

 

Never read that article. Would love to see it. Was it a MH 29 or a frac???? It matters.

 

Espo is pretty biased because he HAS kicked the shit out of everyone up and down the east coast, J27 or any other type of boat, including myself(except for once at 2007 Annapolios NOODS, which I won't let him live down)

 

THis makes no sense as an argument.

Espo is an amazing sailor (almost as good a sailor as he is a shit talker), but that has jack shit to do with whether a 27 is faster than a 29 in a blow and chop.

Put Espo, Will etc on a 27 and they could do equally as well if they dialled it in.

Dunno on the masthead/frac thing, that's a good question. But what's the rating split between the MH and fractional? six secs? nine?

Seems like that was about the advantage the 27 had in breeze, so even if it was MH, claims of a clear speed advantage for the 29 would be bullshit.

Ask Charley Scott (if he is still alive), the winner of the 1984 MORC Internationals, about how he kicked J-29 ass with his J-27.

 

The facts were clearly stated in an edition of One Design Yachting and Cruising; I'll see if I can find a copy of the article.

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At best it's, like eighth down the list... it's actually slower than the 27 in breeze and chop.

rankings more like this

J/125

j/90

j/27

j/33

j/35

j/80

j/44

Jay,

This whole discussion is opinion based but to inject some reality here: no way no how does a J27 beat a J29 in breeze or otherwise

 

Dunno who you are, but I was the bowman on the 27 Fast Times and I can tell you that we could most def. kick the crap out of 29s in chop and breeze. Go back and check our record at Key West, SORC, J/fest etc.

Also, go back and check Sailing World's analysis of hiking a few years back wherein they used J/27s and J/29s among others and tested them in various conditions at various amounts of crew hike. In short, you don't have to believe me, it's scientifically proven.

I go back to KW and SORC and check the results since 1993, we have never been beat by a J/27, or anywhere else we have raced in the country.

So for all you J/27 Blowhards I say bring the piece of shit 27 to WLIS for a good ol ass whooping.

BRING IT!! please

 

 

tuck your testosterone back in your pants and go read that the SW article on hiking. they wrung out the boats pretty thoroughly and generally the 29 has a slight edge, but when the wind got up, it was slower by a few secs.

That's just how it is. I'm not a huge fan of the 27 generally. got no bias there. Your 29 bias is pretty well known.

 

Never read that article. Would love to see it. Was it a MH 29 or a frac???? It matters.

 

Espo is pretty biased because he HAS kicked the shit out of everyone up and down the east coast, J27 or any other type of boat, including myself(except for once at 2007 Annapolios NOODS, which I won't let him live down)

 

THis makes no sense as an argument.

Espo is an amazing sailor (almost as good a sailor as he is a shit talker), but that has jack shit to do with whether a 27 is faster than a 29 in a blow and chop.

Put Espo, Will etc on a 27 and they could do equally as well if they dialled it in.

Dunno on the masthead/frac thing, that's a good question. But what's the rating split between the MH and fractional? six secs? nine?

Seems like that was about the advantage the 27 had in breeze, so even if it was MH, claims of a clear speed advantage for the 29 would be bullshit.

 

I wasn't arguing in the above post. Guess that just shows how good your comprehension is. I was merely stating why he is biased towards the 29. He has had almost unrivaled success in his 29, including up against a national champion 27. (Amethyst for one). Other 29's have beat Amethyst as well including Showdown and Cooch so it's not just Espo, although he and his crew are great sailors.

 

Espo and his crew could not campaign a 27 with any success. Why? Pitman couldn't fit on the narrow side decks and the rest of the crew would sink that 27 with their weight!

That's like trying fit 10 lbs of shit in a 5 lb bag!!

Still waiting to see this article and it's supposed "proven scientific fact"

 

AKAGP. One regatta's results do not make it fact. Did the class B boat sail faster than class A? Maybe, doesn't mean it is fact.

 

Kevlar Edge has sailed extensively with both Hustler and Amethyst which are both multi National Champion boats. He doesn't think a 27 is faster in breeze and chop either.

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On top of this all was the fact that the J29 was born out of the need to save money , thus taking the J30 and making it a bare bones boat.

 

Are you suggesting that the J-29 is just a J-30 with the headroom removed?

:P

 

Besides, the J-29 would be a MUCH better boat if they put a frac rig & an inboard diesel on it.

 

FB- Doug

 

They should have ALL been MHIB. Then my back wouldn't hurt every time I pull the outboard off the back of mine.

YOU"RE SOFT

 

 

Not soft....just the strongest one on my crew!! That's why YOU don't take your OB off!!! :lol:

Just smarter!

 

You must be smarter. I've never been able to find crew that will pony up for new sails on a yearly basis!

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Oh, and that SW test being about hiking, it was indicating the 27 was faster UPWIND when the breeze got up.

 

Not that a 27-29 shitfight was what this thread was about.... I don't hear anyone arguing with my ranking list.

 

 

J/44 doesn't belong on your list. Apples and oranges...the 29 will kick a 44's ass in WLIS can racing, but take one to Bermuda... :lol:

 

 

Nah,. I think the 44 belongs, it's a good boat. the question wasn't "what are the best j./boats for light air."

WLIS is pretty specialized, though the conditions are similar to some of the sailing on the Chessie and in NC.

POint was, horses for courses- off shore in the stink, I'd rather be driving a j/44 than anything else I've ridden, but in LIS in light to moderate breeze a j/92 will leave a SC52 behind- done it! The 44 is a different animal.

 

yah, but that's a slippery slope....in standard LIS light stuff, a Viper 830 rated at, oh, 69 or so, would beat a j/92 by a full leg in a four-leg race and beat the 44 over the line too...

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I've never bothered to open the "Espo is a dick" thread, but after his last couple of posts maybe it's time.

 

I've taken my 27 to Key West 3 times I don't think we were ever in a class with any J/29. Locally it has been 15 years since we raced one and I remember it being fairly even on handicap.

 

As a 27 owner, if I had to pick the best J/Boat of all time I think it has to be the 35.

 

Very entertaining reading.

 

Which 27?

 

 

 

#23 Footloose

 

If we did not set them down every now and then we'd have to move up to a 29 the 27 cooler just ain't that big.

 

 

 

The article that several others have referred to was not about which of the boats was the fastest. It was a technical discussion of how critical weight on the rail was in any boat. It just so happened that the 27 showed the greatest improvement in up wind speed relative to the other boats when maximum effort was made to get the weight out.

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[

 

I wasn't arguing in the above post. Guess that just shows how good your comprehension is.

 

(Or maybe it shows how poorly your posting was written. Sure sounded argumentative)

 

I was merely stating why he is biased towards the 29. He has had almost unrivaled success in his 29, including up against a national champion 27.

 

(I know about his "unrivaled success." So does everyone else on the East Coast. I acknowledged it.)

 

Espo and his crew could not campaign a 27 with any success. Why? Pitman couldn't fit on the narrow side decks and the rest of the crew would sink that 27 with their weight!

 

(I dunno. they'd complain about being wedged in so tight they couldnt get at the beer cooler, but the 27 is fast in 20-30 knots TWS with 1600 lbs on the rail. It will carry a No. 1 to 20kts with that weight, if the boys hike properly.)

 

That's like trying fit 10 lbs of shit in a 5 lb bag!!

 

(20lbs)

 

Still waiting to see this article and it's supposed "proven scientific fact"

 

(I may look around in the closet for it, seems like it was in the late 90s maybe. But then again I may not bother since it would take awhile and people would still argue with it... just a waste of time. Maybe one of the Johnstones, who inevitably are monitoring this, have it handy or better yet could just say flat out what their polars show for the two boats. I know for a fact that Rod had a really good handle on how accurate the PHRF ratings were, and surely they know this stuff, too.)

 

AKAGP. One regatta's results do not make it fact. Did the class B boat sail faster than class A? Maybe, doesn't mean it is fact.

 

(Scott was a God, faster than Espo. But again, we're talking about boat potential, not sailing skill)

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I wasn't arguing in the above post. Guess that just shows how good your comprehension is.

 

(Or maybe it shows how poorly your posting was written. Sure sounded argumentative)

 

I was merely stating why he is biased towards the 29. He has had almost unrivaled success in his 29, including up against a national champion 27.

 

(I know about his "unrivaled success." So does everyone else on the East Coast. I acknowledged it.)

 

Espo and his crew could not campaign a 27 with any success. Why? Pitman couldn't fit on the narrow side decks and the rest of the crew would sink that 27 with their weight!

 

(I dunno. they'd complain about being wedged in so tight they couldnt get at the beer cooler, but the 27 is fast in 20-30 knots TWS with 1600 lbs on the rail. It will carry a No. 1 to 20kts with that weight, if the boys hike properly.)

 

That's like trying fit 10 lbs of shit in a 5 lb bag!!

 

(20lbs)

 

Still waiting to see this article and it's supposed "proven scientific fact"

 

(I may look around in the closet for it, seems like it was in the late 90s maybe. But then again I may not bother since it would take awhile and people would still argue with it... just a waste of time. Maybe one of the Johnstones, who inevitably are monitoring this, have it handy or better yet could just say flat out what their polars show for the two boats. I know for a fact that Rod had a really good handle on how accurate the PHRF ratings were, and surely they know this stuff, too.)

 

AKAGP. One regatta's results do not make it fact. Did the class B boat sail faster than class A? Maybe, doesn't mean it is fact.

 

(Scott was a God, faster than Espo. But again, we're talking about boat potential, not sailing skill)

Fixed it for you; no need to thank me.

 

I think that the sailing skills may have been on par at the 1984 VORC Internationals; Charlie Scott on his J-27, and Skip Allen skippering the J-29 with his brother Scott Allen as crew (if I recall correctly).

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I've never bothered to open the "Espo is a dick" thread, but after his last couple of posts maybe it's time.

 

I've taken my 27 to Key West 3 times I don't think we were ever in a class with any J/29. Locally it has been 15 years since we raced one and I remember it being fairly even on handicap.

 

As a 27 owner, if I had to pick the best J/Boat of all time I think it has to be the 35.

 

Very entertaining reading.

 

Which 27?

 

 

 

#23 Footloose

 

If we did not set them down every now and then we'd have to move up to a 29 the 27 cooler just ain't that big.

 

 

 

The article that several others have referred to was not about which of the boats was the fastest. It was a technical discussion of how critical weight on the rail was in any boat. It just so happened that the 27 showed the greatest improvement in up wind speed relative to the other boats when maximum effort was made to get the weight out.

 

Correct, but it did indicate the 27 was faster when the breeze got up....that wasn't mentioned in the article itself, but was clear in the graphs/charts they ran to show the differences in speed when people simply sat on the rail, asses in a little, and when they hiked out... those differences were subtantial.. it was a great article, the kind of thing you can use to educate a green crew about one of the most important aspects of their job.

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At best it's, like eighth down the list... it's actually slower than the 27 in breeze and chop.

rankings more like this

J/125

j/90

j/27

j/33

j/35

j/80

j/44

Jay,

This whole discussion is opinion based but to inject some reality here: no way no how does a J27 beat a J29 in breeze or otherwise

 

Dunno who you are, but I was the bowman on the 27 Fast Times and I can tell you that we could most def. kick the crap out of 29s in chop and breeze. Go back and check our record at Key West, SORC, J/fest etc.

Also, go back and check Sailing World's analysis of hiking a few years back wherein they used J/27s and J/29s among others and tested them in various conditions at various amounts of crew hike. In short, you don't have to believe me, it's scientifically proven.

I go back to KW and SORC and check the results since 1993, we have never been beat by a J/27, or anywhere else we have raced in the country.

So for all you J/27 Blowhards I say bring the piece of shit 27 to WLIS for a good ol ass whooping.

BRING IT!! please

 

 

tuck your testosterone back in your pants and go read that the SW article on hiking. they wrung out the boats pretty thoroughly and generally the 29 has a slight edge, but when the wind got up, it was slower by a few secs.

That's just how it is. I'm not a huge fan of the 27 generally. got no bias there. Your 29 bias is pretty well known.

 

Never read that article. Would love to see it. Was it a MH 29 or a frac???? It matters.

 

Espo is pretty biased because he HAS kicked the shit out of everyone up and down the east coast, J27 or any other type of boat, including myself(except for once at 2007 Annapolios NOODS, which I won't let him live down)

 

THis makes no sense as an argument.

Espo is an amazing sailor (almost as good a sailor as he is a shit talker), but that has jack shit to do with whether a 27 is faster than a 29 in a blow and chop.

Put Espo, Will etc on a 27 and they could do equally as well if they dialled it in.

Dunno on the masthead/frac thing, that's a good question. But what's the rating split between the MH and fractional? six secs? nine?

Seems like that was about the advantage the 27 had in breeze, so even if it was MH, claims of a clear speed advantage for the 29 would be bullshit.

 

I wasn't arguing in the above post. Guess that just shows how good your comprehension is. I was merely stating why he is biased towards the 29. He has had almost unrivaled success in his 29, including up against a national champion 27. (Amethyst for one). Other 29's have beat Amethyst as well including Showdown and Cooch so it's not just Espo, although he and his crew are great sailors.

 

Espo and his crew could not campaign a 27 with any success. Why? Pitman couldn't fit on the narrow side decks and the rest of the crew would sink that 27 with their weight!

That's like trying fit 10 lbs of shit in a 5 lb bag!!

Still waiting to see this article and it's supposed "proven scientific fact"

 

AKAGP. One regatta's results do not make it fact. Did the class B boat sail faster than class A? Maybe, doesn't mean it is fact.

 

Kevlar Edge has sailed extensively with both Hustler and Amethyst which are both multi National Champion boats. He doesn't think a 27 is faster in breeze and chop either.

Yes we could as long as Pitman bought the sails

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Ira I have to fall on the sword for the 2007 win...I was trimming chute for that regatta and our downwind speed suffered as a result.

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Ira I have to fall on the sword for the 2007 win...I was trimming chute for that regatta and our downwind speed suffered as a result.

 

That's OK Vin........Espo already blamed it on the driver!!! :lol:

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Maybe the crew spots were mixed up!

You're right.

Hey Vin we gave everyone a glimmer of hope before we put our foot acroos there throats

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Maybe the crew spots were mixed up!

You're right.

Hey Vin we gave everyone a glimmer of hope before we put our foot acroos there throats

 

...acrost they're throts...

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Maybe the crew spots were mixed up!

You're right.

Hey Vin we gave everyone a glimmer of hope before we put our foot acroos there throats

 

...acrost they're throts...

eye saw u lurking I new u wood like that

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Maybe the crew spots were mixed up!

You're right.

Hey Vin we gave everyone a glimmer of hope before we put our foot acroos there throats

 

...acrost they're throts...

eye saw u lurking I new u wood like that

 

ahahah!

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Maybe the crew spots were mixed up!

You're right.

Hey Vin we gave everyone a glimmer of hope before we put our foot acroos there throats

 

I have a pretty rugged throat and you're not as heavy as you used to be(or strong).............one of these days we'll throw you off!

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Given that the posters appear to be comparing/arguing the two on a boat-for-boat basis, it seems nuts to compare their relative MORC handicap results. All that does is introduce another variable into the argument that can't be understood unless you can explain how the rule benefits one boat versus the other... a futile exercise almost 26 years later.

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Given that the posters appear to be comparing/arguing the two on a boat-for-boat basis, it seems nuts to compare their relative MORC handicap results. All that does is introduce another variable into the argument that can't be understood unless you can explain how the rule benefits one boat versus the other... a futile exercise almost 26 years later.

Handicap had nothing to do with it since, at 1984 MORC International, 1st place J-27 was sailed faster than the 1st place J-29 in term of elapsed time.

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Given that the posters appear to be comparing/arguing the two on a boat-for-boat basis, it seems nuts to compare their relative MORC handicap results. All that does is introduce another variable into the argument that can't be understood unless you can explain how the rule benefits one boat versus the other... a futile exercise almost 26 years later.

Handicap had nothing to do with it since, at 1984 MORC International, 1st place J-27 was sailed faster than the 1st place J-29 in term of elapsed time.

 

 

Was this a series of races? A distance race? Did they start at the same time, on the same starting line?

 

Your statements are very vague. I would like to read for myself what you are talking about.

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Given that the posters appear to be comparing/arguing the two on a boat-for-boat basis, it seems nuts to compare their relative MORC handicap results. All that does is introduce another variable into the argument that can't be understood unless you can explain how the rule benefits one boat versus the other... a futile exercise almost 26 years later.

Handicap had nothing to do with it since, at 1984 MORC International, 1st place J-27 was sailed faster than the 1st place J-29 in term of elapsed time.

Was this a series of races? A distance race? Did they start at the same time, on the same starting line?

 

Your statements are very vague. I would like to read for myself what you are talking about.

The J29 was Class A and the J27 Class B. They probably had different start times but the same course. The MORC International's was a series of races including a distance race.

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Given that the posters appear to be comparing/arguing the two on a boat-for-boat basis, it seems nuts to compare their relative MORC handicap results. All that does is introduce another variable into the argument that can't be understood unless you can explain how the rule benefits one boat versus the other... a futile exercise almost 26 years later.

Handicap had nothing to do with it since, at 1984 MORC International, 1st place J-27 was sailed faster than the 1st place J-29 in term of elapsed time.

Was this a series of races? A distance race? Did they start at the same time, on the same starting line?

 

Your statements are very vague. I would like to read for myself what you are talking about.

The J29 was Class A and the J27 Class B. They probably had different start times but the same course. The MORC International's was a series of races including a distance race.

 

Nothing to do here but get a 29 and a 27 out this summer for a few trials.... the speeds of these boats from 20 + years ago don't matter now, because they were just that, (speeds from 20+ years ago).

Lets see what they can do against each other now. :blink:

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Well, there were multiple frac 29's with MH kites on Lake Champlain that always clean up. It is usually a light-med air place. There was a 27 with a MH kite and a longer pole that brought it's rating from 126 to 120. It seemed to liven the boat up a ton, but it still never did even come close to the 29's. It seemed that whenever a 33 showed up to the dance, it would sweep them all till a very well funded 120 showed up and has been cleaning house since. I think the most comfy, versitile, and economical of the whole bunch would be the frac 29 with a MH kite.

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Given that the posters appear to be comparing/arguing the two on a boat-for-boat basis, it seems nuts to compare their relative MORC handicap results. All that does is introduce another variable into the argument that can't be understood unless you can explain how the rule benefits one boat versus the other... a futile exercise almost 26 years later.

Handicap had nothing to do with it since, at 1984 MORC International, 1st place J-27 was sailed faster than the 1st place J-29 in term of elapsed time.

Was this a series of races? A distance race? Did they start at the same time, on the same starting line?

 

Your statements are very vague. I would like to read for myself what you are talking about.

The J29 was Class A and the J27 Class B. They probably had different start times but the same course. The MORC International's was a series of races including a distance race.

 

Nothing to do here but get a 29 and a 27 out this summer for a few trials.... the speeds of these boats from 20 + years ago don't matter now, because they were just that, (speeds from 20+ years ago).

Lets see what they can do against each other now. :blink:

 

They'll be at least 3 29's at Charleston Race Week, including mine. There's got to be a 27 that wants to come out and play.

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Given that the posters appear to be comparing/arguing the two on a boat-for-boat basis, it seems nuts to compare their relative MORC handicap results. All that does is introduce another variable into the argument that can't be understood unless you can explain how the rule benefits one boat versus the other... a futile exercise almost 26 years later.

Handicap had nothing to do with it since, at 1984 MORC International, 1st place J-27 was sailed faster than the 1st place J-29 in term of elapsed time.

Was this a series of races? A distance race? Did they start at the same time, on the same starting line?

 

Your statements are very vague. I would like to read for myself what you are talking about.

The J29 was Class A and the J27 Class B. They probably had different start times but the same course. The MORC International's was a series of races including a distance race.

 

Nothing to do here but get a 29 and a 27 out this summer for a few trials.... the speeds of these boats from 20 + years ago don't matter now, because they were just that, (speeds from 20+ years ago).

Lets see what they can do against each other now. :blink:

 

They'll be at least 3 29's at Charleston Race Week, including mine. There's got to be a 27 that wants to come out and play.

Maybe espo can bring Hustler down and you all can have a North Americans!!!

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Looking at KWRW 2000 results it seams odd that HUSTLER raced in Class "E" with 10 other PHRF boats, while there were 13 J-29s racing OD in Class "C".

 

What was that all about?

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Given that the posters appear to be comparing/arguing the two on a boat-for-boat basis, it seems nuts to compare their relative MORC handicap results. All that does is introduce another variable into the argument that can't be understood unless you can explain how the rule benefits one boat versus the other... a futile exercise almost 26 years later.

Handicap had nothing to do with it since, at 1984 MORC International, 1st place J-27 was sailed faster than the 1st place J-29 in term of elapsed time.

Was this a series of races? A distance race? Did they start at the same time, on the same starting line?

 

Your statements are very vague. I would like to read for myself what you are talking about.

The J29 was Class A and the J27 Class B. They probably had different start times but the same course. The MORC International's was a series of races including a distance race.

 

Nothing to do here but get a 29 and a 27 out this summer for a few trials.... the speeds of these boats from 20 + years ago don't matter now, because they were just that, (speeds from 20+ years ago).

Lets see what they can do against each other now. :blink:

 

They'll be at least 3 29's at Charleston Race Week, including mine. There's got to be a 27 that wants to come out and play.

Maybe espo can bring Hustler down and you all can have a North Americans!!!

 

Correction, they'll be 4 29's there. If Hustler comes down that will be 5.

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Looking at KWRW 2000 results it seams odd that HUSTLER raced in Class "E" with 10 other PHRF boats, while there were 13 J-29s racing OD in Class "C".

 

What was that all about?

 

Espo was pissed that the class instituted a crew weight limit, so he boycotted and sailed PHRF instead.

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Looking at KWRW 2000 results it seams odd that HUSTLER raced in Class "E" with 10 other PHRF boats, while there were 13 J-29s racing OD in Class "C".

 

What was that all about?

Espo was pissed that the class instituted a crew weight limit, so he boycotted and sailed PHRF instead.

Cut off the nose to spite the face?

 

What kind of OD class is it, if it didn't have a crew weight limit?

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Looking at KWRW 2000 results it seams odd that HUSTLER raced in Class "E" with 10 other PHRF boats, while there were 13 J-29s racing OD in Class "C".

 

What was that all about?

Espo was pissed that the class instituted a crew weight limit, so he boycotted and sailed PHRF instead.

Cut off the nose to spite the face?

 

What kind of OD class is it, if it didn't have a crew weight limit?

Pitman would throw them overweight

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Looking at KWRW 2000 results it seams odd that HUSTLER raced in Class "E" with 10 other PHRF boats, while there were 13 J-29s racing OD in Class "C".

 

What was that all about?

Espo was pissed that the class instituted a crew weight limit, so he boycotted and sailed PHRF instead.

Cut off the nose to spite the face?

 

What kind of OD class is it, if it didn't have a crew weight limit?

Pitman would throw them overweight

Maximum crew weight of 1,500# is more than generous for a 29' boat. methinks.

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Looking at KWRW 2000 results it seams odd that HUSTLER raced in Class "E" with 10 other PHRF boats, while there were 13 J-29s racing OD in Class "C".

 

What was that all about?

Espo was pissed that the class instituted a crew weight limit, so he boycotted and sailed PHRF instead.

Cut off the nose to spite the face?

 

What kind of OD class is it, if it didn't have a crew weight limit?

Pitman would throw them overweight

Maximum crew weight of 1,500# is more than generous for a 29' boat. methinks.

 

 

 

I agree, J-30's have a limit of 1400 and that's a bigger, heavier boat. That said, you've never met the crew of Hustler have you?

Check out the meat on the rail: http://www.photoboatgallery.com/lightbox/i...and-Race-W.html

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Looking at KWRW 2000 results it seams odd that HUSTLER raced in Class "E" with 10 other PHRF boats, while there were 13 J-29s racing OD in Class "C".

 

What was that all about?

Espo was pissed that the class instituted a crew weight limit, so he boycotted and sailed PHRF instead.

Cut off the nose to spite the face?

 

What kind of OD class is it, if it didn't have a crew weight limit?

Pitman would throw them overweight

Maximum crew weight of 1,500# is more than generous for a 29' boat. methinks.

 

 

 

I agree, J-30's have a limit of 1400 and that's a bigger, heavier boat. That said, you've never met the crew of Hustler have you?

Check out the meat on the rail: http://www.photoboatgallery.com/lightbox/i...and-Race-W.html

 

J 30's are easier to depower than MH 29's. 29's need that rail meat. You are all right. 1500lbs is substantial and adequate.

 

That being said, I think it was more how the class went about instituting the weight limit than the actual limit. I'm sure Espo will chime in here soon and we'll get the full unedited version of what transpired! :lol:

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Well, there were multiple frac 29's with MH kites on Lake Champlain that always clean up. It is usually a light-med air place. There was a 27 with a MH kite and a longer pole that brought it's rating from 126 to 120. It seemed to liven the boat up a ton, but it still never did even come close to the 29's. It seemed that whenever a 33 showed up to the dance, it would sweep them all till a very well funded 120 showed up and has been cleaning house since. I think the most comfy, versitile, and economical of the whole bunch would be the frac 29 with a MH kite.

 

Was aware of the standard J29 "one design" variations, masthead, frac, outboard, inboard. Now we add masthead kites on fracs? Interesting.

Does the frac rig require modification to handle the larger chutes? What do these frac rig/masthead kites rate relative to a regular masthead boat?

 

On a side note, do any masthead 29's use checkstays and frac rigs use runners?

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