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Steve Clark

Fred is in SO much trouble

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It's a bit like a picture of a polar bear in a blizzard, but I thought you would like to see:

post-738-1262892355_thumb.jpg

Hulls are back from Itcheban, they are lighter than Cogito's.

post-738-1262892386_thumb.jpg

We set the beams (also lighter than Cogito's) in place to give a visual of what the beast will look like assembledpost-738-1262892417_thumb.jpg

If I told you by how much I would have to kill you,

And if I did that I would be banned from the NBA.

We wandered around feeling good about ourselves for a few minutes, and then went back to preparing the basement of the barn for the beaming and hull alignment shit fight.

post-738-1262892444_thumb.jpg

The first set of boards and rudders are compete,

We start the second set next week.

Wing molds start in two weeks, I better order some more super light glass....

We are on track and Fred is in so much trouble....

SHC

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Nothing like some good C-Cat smack talk. What's the name of the boat again Steve?

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It's a bit like a picture of a polar bear in a blizzard, but I thought you would like to see:

Whilst the C's are about the coolest race boats on the planet, don't you think that's taking it a little too literally?

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It's a bit like a picture of a polar bear in a blizzard, but I thought you would like to see:

post-738-1262892355_thumb.jpg

Hulls are back from Itcheban, they are lighter than Cogito's.

post-738-1262892386_thumb.jpg

We set the beams (also lighter than Cogito's) in place to give a visual of what the beast will look like assembledpost-738-1262892417_thumb.jpg

If I told you by how much I would have to kill you,

And if I did that I would be banned from the NBA.

We wandered around feeling good about ourselves for a few minutes, and then went back to preparing the basement of the barn for the beaming and hull alignment shit fight.

post-738-1262892444_thumb.jpg

The first set of boards and rudders are compete,

We start the second set next week.

Wing molds start in two weeks, I better order some more super light glass....

We are on track and Fred is in so much trouble....

SHC

 

 

Umm, not sailing or designing C class, I am curious about the experience or design parameter on which those V-shaped carbon cross beams were designed? Looks a bit wiggly to me, and the tramp and rig, along with the assymetrical force of the water on the weather hull are going to put substantial force on those angled bits with an overall sacrifice of desireable stiffness. Just curious.

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Nice looking Steve, can you tell us the weight of each hull?

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force of the water on the weather hull

 

 

You won't see a c class with its weather hull in the water!

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Guessing-- female molded in low temp carbon uni prepreg over nomex?

 

My guess is it comes from the replicators on NCC 1701-D

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Umm, not sailing or designing C class, I am curious about the experience or design parameter on which those V-shaped carbon cross beams were designed? Looks a bit wiggly to me, and the tramp and rig, along with the assymetrical force of the water on the weather hull are going to put substantial force on those angled bits with an overall sacrifice of desireable stiffness. Just curious.

 

He just doesn't like sitting on a slope so at optimum heel the upwind half of the tramp is flat...

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Bravo, bring it on my friend, bring it on. She looks beautiful, and I would expect nothing less (except in the weight department of course) from you Steve.

 

Newport is gonna be lots of fun, I cannot wait.

 

Snow in Bristol, Snow in Toronto and Snow here in VLC todays as well. I am sure there will be some talk around the espresso machine about your new ride.

 

Plenty of guys here at the BOR camp who want to come and play C-cats as well.

 

Cannot wait to see what else you reveal in the coming months.

 

Cheers, and again, she looks awesome.

 

Magnus

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It's fantastic that multis are getting so much centre stage.

goog luck with the build :)

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What are the plans for the ICCC in Newport? Did I hear it was in September? Who's hosting? Can't miss that one.

 

Last week of August, NYYC is the host club, sailed out of SAIL NEWPORT at Fort Adams.

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A few details:

Hulls came out at 0.655238095 lbs/ft^2 on average give or take .01%

This was within 1.99% of target.

The main beam is kinked in order to increase the length of the dolphin striker and thus reduce the stresses in the beam and the dolphin striker strap. Stern beam is kinked to increase the tramp clearance at centerline and maintain a clean outboard gunwale.

Which is helpful for the sailing team on the windward, and for minimizing for spray drag on the leeward side.

 

Construction was in CNC carved Styrofoam female molds ( with glass skins.) Vacuum bagged wet layup with free standing post cure. We were pretty careful about resin use, but that's what we do around here. Did the layup in 3 stages to assure good compaction of outside skin, good core fit, closeouts and core replacement/ inserts. Ingredients include: Proset 125/237 laminating resin, Proset M1002/237 rubber toughened resin for core bond. 1/4" 4lb OX nomex, 200 g/m^2 IM7 carbon fiber cloth, 70g/m^2 Kevlar cloth, and 150 g/m^2 T-700 uni carbon.

 

Kenny at Hall made the beams using high modulus carbon and an autoclave....

 

Event will be at Harbor Court. We will be sailing off the beach and keeping the boats on the lawn.

Big tent with the Wings inside and Granny Squib Ice Tea.

 

SHC

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Construction was in CNC carved Styrofoam female molds ( with glass skins.) Vacuum bagged wet layup with free standing post cure. We were pretty careful about resin use, but that's what we do around here. Did the layup in 3 stages to assure good compaction of outside skin, good core fit, closeouts and core replacement/ inserts. Ingredients include: Proset 125/237 laminating resin, Proset M1002/237 rubber toughened resin for core bond. 1/4" 4lb OX nomex, 200 g/m^2 IM7 carbon fiber cloth, 70g/m^2 Kevlar cloth, and 150 g/m^2 T-700 uni carbon.

 

Hey, that is accessible technology! That means others can... Wow!

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Construction was in CNC carved Styrofoam female molds ( with glass skins.) Vacuum bagged wet layup with free standing post cure. We were pretty careful about resin use, but that's what we do around here. Did the layup in 3 stages to assure good compaction of outside skin, good core fit, closeouts and core replacement/ inserts. Ingredients include: Proset 125/237 laminating resin, Proset M1002/237 rubber toughened resin for core bond. 1/4" 4lb OX nomex, 200 g/m^2 IM7 carbon fiber cloth, 70g/m^2 Kevlar cloth, and 150 g/m^2 T-700 uni carbon.

 

Hey, that is accessible technology! That means others can... Wow!

 

SA Rocks!

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We wandered around feeling good about ourselves for a few minutes, and then went back to preparing the basement of the barn for the beaming and hull alignment shit fight.

 

There have been more cool toys built in Steve's barn than one can imagine....

 

Hey Steve, does the Bristol Acat fleet have anything going on around the races? I might have to buy another one and get up there - long live the fat boys!

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Just a little history. I used to own the first Little America's Cup winner, Hellcat II, the British boat that defeated Beverly designed by Bob Harris. It was 24 x 12, FG hulls, molded plywood decks. We had a blast sailing in Long Island Sound. Turned me on to bigger multihulls and bought Beowulf V (Class D) from Steve Dashew, kept it a few years sailing in LI Sound and sold it back to someone in CA. I think it is still sailing around SF. If any one knows where she is, please tell me. Good luck. David Deutsch

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Just a little history. I used to own the first Little America's Cup winner, Hellcat II, the British boat that defeated Beverly designed by Bob Harris. It was 24 x 12, FG hulls, molded plywood decks. We had a blast sailing in Long Island Sound. Turned me on to bigger multihulls and bought Beowulf V (Class D) from Steve Dashew, kept it a few years sailing in LI Sound and sold it back to someone in CA. I think it is still sailing around SF. If any one knows where she is, please tell me. Good luck. David Deutsch

 

Alan O'Driscoll owns it. I did a bit of sailing with him on it a couple of years ago. Fuckin wicked ride!

 

we busted the decks in the ditch run, and the boat went into Tuttles shop for rehab.

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If you don't mind educating the curious and ignorant:

 

How do you attach the inner skin to the nomex? I can totally visualize laminating the outer skin into the female mold, and hen fitting and gluing the nomex core-- but then you have to laminate carbon cloth to a core that consists of a bunch of holes??? Doesn't seem baggable, and I can't imaging you just squeegee it on...

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Construction was in CNC carved Styrofoam female molds ( with glass skins.) Vacuum bagged wet layup with free standing post cure. We were pretty careful about resin use, but that's what we do around here. Did the layup in 3 stages to assure good compaction of outside skin, good core fit, closeouts and core replacement/ inserts. Ingredients include: Proset 125/237 laminating resin, Proset M1002/237 rubber toughened resin for core bond. 1/4" 4lb OX nomex, 200 g/m^2 IM7 carbon fiber cloth, 70g/m^2 Kevlar cloth, and 150 g/m^2 T-700 uni carbon.

 

Now that's interesting ! Thanks for sharing !

 

Some choices are actually a surprise for me :

- IM7 cloth, but T700 UD ?

- 4lb 1/4" Nomex... too much shear for 3lb ?

- Kevlar ? For it's lightness in non structural zones, or its strength in tension ?

 

I'd fully understand if you don't want to go into details, but I sure would be interested to hear your comments !

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If you don't mind educating the curious and ignorant:

 

How do you attach the inner skin to the nomex? I can totally visualize laminating the outer skin into the female mold, and hen fitting and gluing the nomex core-- but then you have to laminate carbon cloth to a core that consists of a bunch of holes??? Doesn't seem baggable, and I can't imaging you just squeegee it on...

 

I wasnt there when he did this layup, but it sounds like he's using the same process that he's used to build the most recent Acat hulls. Squeegee the carbon into the mold, lay the nomex in, lay on more cloth thats probably already been wetted out and bag. Put the two halfs together and blow hot air through it overnight. Keep the fire in the woodstove burning.

 

Its amazing what he's doing using some pretty low tech techniques. Aside from the CNC female mold, this method of layup really only requires a good scale, some platic resin containers, squeegees, a good vaccumm, a thermostat, fan powered heater and of course some practice. There's no autoclave, I dont think he using a lot of prepreg, or vacuum infusion or other more advanced layup methods.

 

When the nomex is bagged you sometimes get some print through of the nomex pattern from the core. I've seen this on some of the A2/A3 Acats, but its not a structural issue, more of a cosmetic issue, and Steve's usually more worried about going fast, as opposed to looking pretty. If you thicken up the epoxy between the cloth and the nomex core it helps it stick.

 

For the Acat layup that I've witnessed he's used OX nomex, so it bends to a tight curve in one plane easily, he's probably using the same stuff this time.

 

I could be wrong, he might have gone all high tech and ditched the woodstove, you never know.

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beauty eh?

 

:wub:

 

am I assuming right that when bagging, vacuum presses the firbreglass skin of the mold enough into the xps form, so xps/glass delam issues are moot- like outgassing? Do you accept some degradation of the mold xps just behind the fibreglas skin from pressure or any temperature changes? The styrofoam your using is 2lb xps?

 

I don't see any holes for daggerboards-?

 

Very nice.

 

Paul

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based on reference to three stage layup, I assume he did outer skin, let cure, installed core, let cure, and applied inner skin. Post cure the whole thing at once?

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Just a little history. I used to own the first Little America's Cup winner, Hellcat II, the British boat that defeated Beverly designed by Bob Harris. It was 24 x 12, FG hulls, molded plywood decks. We had a blast sailing in Long Island Sound. Turned me on to bigger multihulls and bought Beowulf V (Class D) from Steve Dashew, kept it a few years sailing in LI Sound and sold it back to someone in CA. I think it is still sailing around SF. If any one knows where she is, please tell me. Good luck. David Deutsch

 

Some history of cat sailing on Steve Dashew's site, setsail:

 

http://setsail.com/catamaran-history-the-early-days/

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Steve,

 

The boat looks great. I did not know you were that far along. I like the beam configeration. The rear beam should help you stay high and dry. I am assuming that the tension on the main beam is not that much compared to a soft sail. How is the new wing coming along? Have you seen any pictures or design from Fredo's camp for their new boat? Also, has there been any interest in others using the older boats during this regatta. I know Cogito is available. Aren't other boats as well like Fredo's two boat and PLVI available as well. Maybe some of the BMWO guys would join the I4C after the cup is done. Anyway, again the boat looks sweet and good luck with the workup.

 

TTS

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We wandered around feeling good about ourselves for a few minutes, and then went back to preparing the basement of the barn for the beaming and hull alignment shit fight.

 

There have been more cool toys built in Steve's barn than one can imagine....

 

Hey Steve, does the Bristol Acat fleet have anything going on around the races? I might have to buy another one and get up there - long live the fat boys!

 

 

+1 that and what exactly is Granny Squibb Iced Tea?

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If you don't mind educating the curious and ignorant:

 

How do you attach the inner skin to the nomex? I can totally visualize laminating the outer skin into the female mold, and hen fitting and gluing the nomex core-- but then you have to laminate carbon cloth to a core that consists of a bunch of holes??? Doesn't seem baggable, and I can't imaging you just squeegee it on...

 

The inside skin is wet out and squeegeed on apiece of plastic off the job, this is comonly known as kiwi preg. Then the plastic is liffted over the core carbon and resin side down, gently press to core and remove plastic. Wola... wet laminated insde skin on a honeycomb core, then all the bagging consumable go on.

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A few details:

Hulls came out at 0.655238095 lbs/ft^2 on average give or take .01%

This was within 1.99% of target.

 

Ingredients include: Proset 125/237 laminating resin, Proset M1002/237 rubber toughened resin for core bond. 1/4" 4lb OX nomex, 200 g/m^2 IM7 carbon fiber cloth, 70g/m^2 Kevlar cloth, and 150 g/m^2 T-700 uni carbon.

 

SHC

 

Looks very nice. Many thanks for sharing these details and the wing information you sent a couple of weeks ago.

 

0.655238095 lbs/ft^2 equals 297 grammes/ft^2 which equals 3,190 gs/m^2 (gsm).

Assuming one layer of each of the reinforcements over the entire boat (carbon outside, kevlar inside?), the weight is 420 gsm (200+70+150) and 50% resin/glass including enough to bond the nomex, 840 gsm total.

This leaves 2,350 gsm for the core (40 gsm?), hull/deck join, close outs, local reinforcing, solids and paint, which seems a lot. I guess all the laminate (1680 gsm, incl resin) could be on both sides of the core, but even then, the additional material works out at 1,510 gsm, which is still a fair bit when it is for the entire hull.

 

I would love to know what went where, and why, but will be quite happy with a "yes, there is that much extra material" answer.

regards,

 

rob

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[quote name='herbie53' date='Jan 11 2010, 02:03 AM' post='2660973'

.... and what exactly is Granny Squibb Iced Tea?

http://www.grannysquibb.com/matriarch/default.asp

My Great Aunt Sally ( Sarah Harris Squibb) , who raised my Mom after my grandmother died.

A very good person. Her grand daughter, my cousin Robin, is cashing in on the family formula and more power to her.

 

The build process is fairly generic. I have been doing things this way for quite a while and have quite a bit of confidence in the end result. There are some voice actuated. infinitely variable ratio and speed impregnation devices that haven't been invented by the Kiwis or Australians which I have used for years.

Kevlar skin is mostly as a carrier for the corebond resin. However it also seems to pay for itself in increased damage tolerance of the outside skin and vapor barrier on the inside skin. It's a pain in the ass to work with, but sometimes you take one pain in the ass to avoid another.

We process prepreg here quite happily, but in this application, making high temperature hull tools is about 400% more difficult than the flotation foam and glass tooling we have been using for the last few years. I made the decision that I could match Cogito's weight and get adequate stiffness using a room temperature cure system and thereby saved a ton of time and money.

SHC

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voice actuated. infinitely variable ratio and speed impregnation devices

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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We process prepreg here quite happily, but in this application, making high temperature hull tools is about 400% more difficult than the flotation foam and glass tooling we have been using for the last few years. I made the decision that I could match Cogito's weight and get adequate stiffness using a room temperature cure system and thereby saved a ton of time and money.

SHC

 

Thanks, Steve. I think I remember (now, of course :lol: ) you posting specifics on this mold technique in the past here on SA (or the Int IC site).

 

Will search.

 

Paul

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It's a bit like a picture of a polar bear in a blizzard, but I thought you would like to see:

post-738-1262892355_thumb.jpg

Hulls are back from Itcheban, they are lighter than Cogito's.

post-738-1262892386_thumb.jpg

We set the beams (also lighter than Cogito's) in place to give a visual of what the beast will look like assembledpost-738-1262892417_thumb.jpg

If I told you by how much I would have to kill you,

And if I did that I would be banned from the NBA.

We wandered around feeling good about ourselves for a few minutes, and then went back to preparing the basement of the barn for the beaming and hull alignment shit fight.

post-738-1262892444_thumb.jpg

The first set of boards and rudders are compete,

We start the second set next week.

Wing molds start in two weeks, I better order some more super light glass....

We are on track and Fred is in so much trouble....

SHC

 

Very nice Steve very nice do you need another test pilot ;)....

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Very nice Steve very nice do you need another test pilot ;)....

 

Go to Rosebud and steal the Yellow boat and wing.

Get it sailing and we will see what we can do to get it to the event.

SHC

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Thanks so much for sharing the new C Class project .

 

 

 

Just wondering about the boards and lift potential of canted and curved boards .

 

Is there a C Class rule similar to the A Class that does NOT allow boards to extend beyond the max. 14 ft beam measurement --or can the boards be canted and when raised exceed the 14 ft beam ?

 

Are any C Class teams experimenting with lifting foils via Moth class type .

 

 

Are there a copy of the current C Class rules for us novices to review .

 

all the best with the new project .

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I did not know that Egner had done that!

If 130 kg ( 286 lbs) is the all up weight, then these things will be pretty impressive and not that easy to beat.

If 130 kg is the platform weight then they will be about like PLVI and pretty mortal.

In any event, if there are good Egner designed platforms out there, the problem of building a C Class just got a whole lot easier.

I have written for information. This is pretty cool!.

Foilers have been tried, but without good results. Below 16 knots, the long light hulls are pretty hard to beat, and we spend a lot of out races just below 16 knots.

The new boat has some alternative foil features, but will not be fully foil borne. I think there is a world of development in between displacement sailing and flying. The

The C Class has not adopted the A Class anti foil rules. We are discussing tightening the interpretation of the maximum beam and overall length to assure the integrity of "the box."

We expect to draft language that requires the boards to be within the maximum beam at all positions. This will make intensely inclined boards such as Seignior G's illegal. And we intend to make the tubular extension that Rocker had as rudder hangings illegal as well. We will vote on this at the I4C.

SHC

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Just a little history. I used to own the first Little America's Cup winner, Hellcat II, the British boat that defeated Beverly designed by Bob Harris. It was 24 x 12, FG hulls, molded plywood decks. We had a blast sailing in Long Island Sound. Turned me on to bigger multihulls and bought Beowulf V (Class D) from Steve Dashew, kept it a few years sailing in LI Sound and sold it back to someone in CA. I think it is still sailing around SF. If any one knows where she is, please tell me. Good luck. David Deutsch

 

Alan O'Driscoll owns it. I did a bit of sailing with him on it a couple of years ago. Fuckin wicked ride!

 

we busted the decks in the ditch run, and the boat went into Tuttles shop for rehab.

As stated, Beowulf V is still owned by Alan O'Driscoll. She has been out of action for a couple of years, however rumor has it that she will be back in action with BAMA VERY soon.

 

Cheers!!!

 

-MH

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I did not know that Egner had done that!

If 130 kg ( 286 lbs) is the all up weight, then these things will be pretty impressive and not that easy to beat.

If 130 kg is the platform weight then they will be about like PLVI and pretty mortal.

In any event, if there are good Egner designed platforms out there, the problem of building a C Class just got a whole lot easier.

I have written for information. This is pretty cool!.

SHC

Steve,

 

can please you let us know what you find out so we don't all have to bother him.

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For those wanting to bone up on foiling Cs, C design, etc. Steve Killing has a nice paper on his web site. If case you don't know who Steve is, he penned the lines for all Fredo's boats and is a key member of the Fredo team and a nice guy to boot:

 

Download by clicking the link on the bottom of this page (it's big at 13MB)

 

I must say I'm astonished by Steve's and the Canadian team's openness in revealing so many secrets - even beats Alex Kozloff giving me Aquarius IV's basic drawings, when we challenged with Miss Lancia in 78!

And I'm definitely planning to be in Newport ..

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I did not know that Egner had done that!

If 130 kg ( 286 lbs) is the all up weight, then these things will be pretty impressive and not that easy to beat.

If 130 kg is the platform weight then they will be about like PLVI and pretty mortal.

In any event, if there are good Egner designed platforms out there, the problem of building a C Class just got a whole lot easier.

I have written for information. This is pretty cool!.

 

SHC

 

I have my uses.

 

I like the idea of a Class C as a one man boat. A really light air one man boat.

 

:lol:

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For those wanting to bone up on foiling Cs, C design, etc. Steve Killing has a nice paper on his web site
Awesome B)

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Any information from Egner yet?

Nope, maybe multiple people should ping him.

Or they are off to Dusseldorf.

Or someone closer should pick up the phone...

SHC

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Any information from Egner yet?

Nope, maybe multiple people should ping him.

Or they are off to Dusseldorf.

Or someone closer should pick up the phone...

SHC

That C-Class Catamaran has been on their site since at least 2007 when I was gathering info for the A-Class site. I have seen one or two videos of some racing in Europe.

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Really? I can't seem to dig anything up.

There was some video the Danish CMax, which was pretty much like an RC 27 but I haven't been able to find anything about the Egner boat. Maybe its in an a class shot somewhere.

SHC

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Really? I can't seem to dig anything up.

There was some video the Danish CMax, which was pretty much like an RC 27 but I haven't been able to find anything about the Egner boat. Maybe its in an a class shot somewhere.

SHC

 

Steve,

 

It has been a couple of years, but I will try to find the ones I found back then. If i find them, I will post the links here. It may have been during an A-Cat regatta.

 

TTS

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I have the experience that German boatbuilders don't return emails. I emailed a German maker of metre boats many times, back before we did Amati (because I have a thing for 30 sq m's) and did not hear a peep.

 

Hope these guys peep. B)

 

Paul

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Are any C Class teams experimenting with lifting foils via Moth class type .

I seem to remember the Aussies were installing some inclined T foils in someones carport at one stage. Does anybody know what happened to Ronstan?

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Well I have written a couple of times to get information as well. My question is a simple one. Are they still building Flyers since they contracted with Ashby for to build his boats in AUS? The website does not seem to have been updated for a while. I see that they do have the FlyerXL, but the information on that is limited. Maybe we get no replies because no one is home and manning the business.

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We are on track and Fred is in so much trouble....

SHC

 

Steve was kind enough to post some photos of his new creation for everyone's interest, and to suggest we were "in so much trouble". I thought it might be interesting for viewers to have a chance to see a photo of "Orion" on the water so they could decide for themselves. We like to flatter ourselves that Orion helped provoke Steve into his current build program, and if that's true we are happy to have played a role.

 

Orion was built following the 2007 series, when our foiling project proved so slow. It was a chance to address some of the opportunities we thought were available, but which we couldn't explore before the 2007 series. We have now had a chance to do some good sailing on Orion and have got some good results.

 

Steve says we are in trouble. I say we are in for an interesting showdown at NYYC this summer.

 

post-10548-1264005874_thumb.jpg

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I thought it might be interesting for viewers to have a chance to see a photo of "Orion" on the water ...

 

Well, it did make me go immediately over to Expedia :)

 

But two trapezes?

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The rules were changed to allow 2 on trap before the 07 event. An interesting question that floats through my mind is should the Cunnigham style double slot rig be re-visited because of the ability to tame the extra power. I wish I had the time and money to find out.

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I think we have to rename this thread: STEVE is in so much trouble (oh, and us!)

 

NIIIIICE boat Fred!

How about an update on Invictus?

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The rules were changed to allow 2 on trap before the 07 event. An interesting question that floats through my mind is should the Cunnigham style double slot rig be re-visited because of the ability to tame the extra power. I wish I had the time and money to find out.

 

 

Yes, I didn't quite catch on Steve's comment that it would create problems gybing. MOF, any idea of Cl max. one could achieve with that?

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So Clean, are you going to NYYC to film the action come August? I was hoping to make the trip myself but semester start dates don't correlate well.

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sam, we wouldn't miss this one for the world. We have another event immediately before, so we may get there the 23rd. It is our hope that the course will be set somewhere that allows us to broadcast the entire event live in high quality video or HD from a good vantage point. We also hope to have transmitting onboard cams that the competitors will carry to enable audience to see the racing live from aboard.

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The rules were changed to allow 2 on trap before the 07 event. An interesting question that floats through my mind is should the Cunnigham style double slot rig be re-visited because of the ability to tame the extra power. I wish I had the time and money to find out.

 

 

Yes, I didn't quite catch on Steve's comment that it would create problems gybing. MOF, any idea of Cl max. one could achieve with that?

 

Screen shot from Pete Melvin's presentation that was posted here the other day. I believe the top curve is the double slot, probably data taken from Freedom's wing (their 91 LAC challenger) Sorry about the bad res, but thats what was in the video.

post-7362-1264044174_thumb.jpg

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Does anybody know what happened to Ronstan?

 

Paul Pearson is converting her to a foil flyer, in Perth. I don't know how far along the project is.

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We are on track and Fred is in so much trouble....

SHC

 

Steve was kind enough to post some photos of his new creation for everyone's interest, and to suggest we were "in so much trouble". I thought it might be interesting for viewers to have a chance to see a photo of "Orion" on the water so they could decide for themselves. We like to flatter ourselves that Orion helped provoke Steve into his current build program, and if that's true we are happy to have played a role.

 

Orion was built following the 2007 series, when our foiling project proved so slow. It was a chance to address some of the opportunities we thought were available, but which we couldn't explore before the 2007 series. We have now had a chance to do some good sailing on Orion and have got some good results.

 

Steve says we are in trouble. I say we are in for an interesting showdown at NYYC this summer.

 

post-10548-1264005874_thumb.jpg

 

 

[drool...]

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Is there any development at all being done to boats without more than one hull or foils?

 

Fark me the advances are coming thick and fast for the box multis and moths.

 

Magnificent to see.

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Screen shot from Pete Melvin's presentation that was posted here the other day. I believe the top curve is the double slot, probably data taken from Freedom's wing (their 91 LAC challenger) Sorry about the bad res, but thats what was in the video.

 

I had seen the graph, but as you say it's so blurred that I couldn't read which airfoils the curves were referred to.

 

The other thing is, it shows Angle of Attack / Apparent Wind Angle (??) going up to 90 degrees without stalling, which leaves me doubtful. Also, Cl max. values seem on the low side: I would have expected 2.0 for a simple two-element wing (A-cat and BOR90) and 2.5 for a Cogito-type wing. It's like the effect of aspect ratio is factored in, rather than being referred to the pure section Cl.

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Is there any development at all being done to boats without more than one hull or foils?

 

Fark me the advances are coming thick and fast for the box multis and moths.

 

Magnificent to see.

 

With Duncan working at Alinghi and Dave at BOR Steve should have a few more tricks up his sleeve.

 

And with Magnus, Rob, and Rossi working with BOR, Fred should also have a few learnings from the DOG match.

 

Of course, come August all 5 of these guys could still be in Valencia stuck in the AC quagmire and Fred and Steve will both be sailing single handed.

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Is there any development at all being done to boats without more than one hull or foils?

See the development Canoe thread...

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We are on track and Fred is in so much trouble....

SHC

 

Steve was kind enough to post some photos of his new creation for everyone's interest, and to suggest we were "in so much trouble". I thought it might be interesting for viewers to have a chance to see a photo of "Orion" on the water so they could decide for themselves. We like to flatter ourselves that Orion helped provoke Steve into his current build program, and if that's true we are happy to have played a role.

 

Orion was built following the 2007 series, when our foiling project proved so slow. It was a chance to address some of the opportunities we thought were available, but which we couldn't explore before the 2007 series. We have now had a chance to do some good sailing on Orion and have got some good results.

 

Steve says we are in trouble. I say we are in for an interesting showdown at NYYC this summer.

 

post-10548-1264005874_thumb.jpg

Sweet. Will we see it action in harbour this spring?

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I had seen the graph, but as you say it's so blurred that I couldn't read which airfoils the curves were referred to.

 

The other thing is, it shows Angle of Attack / Apparent Wind Angle (??) going up to 90 degrees without stalling, which leaves me doubtful.

 

I'm guessing that the graph refers to Apparent Wind Angle with reference to the hull, not to the wing. That is how it can be drawn out to 90 degrees without stall.

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Sweet. Will we see it action in harbour this spring?

 

I am hoping we get out more this summer than the last couple. Having a race deadline always helps to push things along faster! However, we're not expecting much before mid to late May; the waters too cold until then.

 

F

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We are on track and Fred is in so much trouble....

SHC

 

Steve was kind enough to post some photos of his new creation for everyone's interest, and to suggest we were "in so much trouble". I thought it might be interesting for viewers to have a chance to see a photo of "Orion" on the water so they could decide for themselves. We like to flatter ourselves that Orion helped provoke Steve into his current build program, and if that's true we are happy to have played a role.

 

Orion was built following the 2007 series, when our foiling project proved so slow. It was a chance to address some of the opportunities we thought were available, but which we couldn't explore before the 2007 series. We have now had a chance to do some good sailing on Orion and have got some good results.

 

Steve says we are in trouble. I say we are in for an interesting showdown at NYYC this summer.

 

post-10548-1264005874_thumb.jpg

 

'nother nice plug for Velocitek

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Are their published rules for the C-Class?

Do they have to be catamarans or do the box rules suffice?

I saw reference to a tri winning the C-Class NAs in the late 60's.

 

I know that there would be a weight penalty compared to an equivalent cat but it would open alternative possibilities - eg better foiling platform.

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Are their published rules for the C-Class?

Do they have to be catamarans or do the box rules suffice?

I saw reference to a tri winning the C-Class NAs in the late 60's.

 

I know that there would be a weight penalty compared to an equivalent cat but it would open alternative possibilities - eg better foiling platform.

 

Measurement Rules: December 3, 2003

 

1. A catamaran is defined as a two-hulled sailing boat with essentially duplicate or mirror image hulls, fixed in parallel positions.

 

2. Sail area shall not be more than 27.868 square meters (300 square feet) Sail area to be measured in accordance with the "ISAF Measurement & Calculation of Sail Area Instructions" (Last issued May 1985).

 

3. The overall length of the catamaran shall not be more than 7.62 meters (25 feet). The length shall be measured between perpendiculars to the extremities of the hulls with the catamaran in her normal trim. The measurement shall be taken parallel to the centre line of the craft and shall exclude rudder hangings, but if the athwartships width of a rudder within 153mm (6 inches) of the bottom of the hull is more than 76mm (3 inches), the length shall be taken to the aftermost point of the rudder.

 

4. The extreme beam shall not be more than: 4.267 meters (14 feet). The beam shall be measured at right angles to the centre line of the craft at the widest point and including all fixed or adjustable apparatus with the exception of a normally accepted trapeze or retractable seat.

 

5. The crew shall be two persons.

 

6. The original C Class rules only permited one trapeze per side. Only one crew member could use the trapeze at any time. In 2004 the C class association agreed to allow both crew to trapeze at future events.

 

7. The C class emblem shall be carried on the mainsail and shall consist of the letter C over two parallel horizontal lines over national letters and sail numbers. Sail numbers shall be allotted by the National Authority or Class Association appointed by the National Authority. The class emblem, national letters and distinguishing numbers shall be placed as prescribed in the Yacht Racing Rules.

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How about an update on Invictus?

 

True, we have been rather quiet! We do not have a new boat, but we do have a new(ish) wing which has been working very well during testing. We are looking at getting reliability and time on the water to build sailing skills, but we also hope to do a few technical tweaks before the races in August.

 

Steve and Fred seem to be widening the gap all the time, and this is both exciting and frustrating for us; we have to split our time between design/build/sailing and the search for money to keep us going. Our view is that in 2010 we will continue to gain experience, and in the process, demonstrate commitment to this fantastic event, and from this, prove our credentials to attract a sponsor willing to give us something in the order of £150k to build something that will leapfrog Orion (yes, quite a statement having seen the latest pics, but we have plenty of ideas)!

 

I dont want to harp on about our poverty, yes, funds have been like a kink in the fuel line, and we have not therefore developed at the speed we need, but I am also confident that if we can show a good performance, we can justify investment that will mean our financial horizon extends beyond a few months at a time. £150k is small compared with Freds investment, but we dont pay for our own time, just materials and equipment.

 

Strangely, we have had something extremely similar to Alphas platform on our drawing boards for some time, but thats not meant to take anything away from Fred and his team, this is a spectacular looking platform, it is rare that the platform takes the eye away from the wing, but in this case; wow!

 

These boats are far from any development plateau and the open format of the rules continues to inspire innovation and exploration. The anticipation apparent in these pages is a real boost, and we are already looking forward to August; what a venue!

 

For the latest news, we have now moved our main website from www.team-invictus.co.uk to www.teaminvictus.com.

 

We look forward to meeting many of you in Newport, TTFN

 

Norman.

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We could do a live talk show over the phone sometime after the AC with everyone who intends to come race in Newport. Talk about new boats, new techniques, trickle down from AC or trickle up to AC, Fred and the 14, Steve and the IC, etc. and take some phone calls from the audience.

 

 

Just throwing it out there, but we could definitely do it and it would be fun as hell for me to hear about this stuff. It'd be the first installment of SA radio, I suppose.

 

Interested?

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By the way, I talked to ol' Bob Fisher today, he'll be in Newport to help spread the word. He's got an interesting story about the words "Little America's Cup" too that will need to be told.

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Wish I'd seen these sooner! From the Invictus site linked above:

 

Too cool! Lord I wish these guys could upstage the AC megalomaniacs!

 

It's a hell of a long drive, but I'm thinking of dragging the Blade up there just to watch. That time of year I'll bet motel rooms are e-x-p-e-n-s-i-v-e!

 

Is there any place to launch a beach cat reasonably close by?

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Sail Newport is a stones throw away and is RIs public sailing facility. It says soon their letterhead.

Yeah motel roms are expensive no matter where you go, but theree are hundreds of empty berths in the harbor and launch service. Maybe Sailing Anarchy can hook you up with a slab for a few nights?

SHC

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Wish I'd seen these sooner! From the Invictus site linked above:

 

Too cool! Lord I wish these guys could upstage the AC megalomaniacs!

 

It's a hell of a long drive, but I'm thinking of dragging the Blade up there just to watch. That time of year I'll bet motel rooms are e-x-p-e-n-s-i-v-e!

 

Is there any place to launch a beach cat reasonably close by?

 

If you need a crew let me know! I will be driving down from Boston to check it out.... how could someone studying hydrodynamics at MIT miss it!

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Sail Newport is a stones throw away and is RIs public sailing facility. It says soon their letterhead.

Yeah motel roms are expensive no matter where you go, but theree are hundreds of empty berths in the harbor and launch service. Maybe Sailing Anarchy can hook you up with a slab for a few nights?

SHC

I'm sure something will turn up if you keep askin'.

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Now that's interesting ! Thanks for sharing !

 

Some choices are actually a surprise for me :

- IM7 cloth, but T700 UD ?

- 4lb 1/4" Nomex... too much shear for 3lb ?

- Kevlar ? For it's lightness in non structural zones, or its strength in tension ?

 

I'd fully understand if you don't want to go into details, but I sure would be interested to hear your comments !

 

 

I was wondering about the carbon as well- IM7 is higher performance in all regards. Was it just a supply issue?

 

(declaration of interest- I'm a low level Hexcel employee. Of course I'd rather see out products used over Toray)

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Sail Newport is a stones throw away and is RIs public sailing facility. It says soon their letterhead.

Yeah motel roms are expensive no matter where you go, but theree are hundreds of empty berths in the harbor and launch service. Maybe Sailing Anarchy can hook you up with a slab for a few nights?

SHC

I'm sure something will turn up if you