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J/105 Take Downs

What does your crew do after a takedown  

75 members have voted

  1. 1. What do you do with the kite once it's down the hatch

    • Leave it alone
      51
    • Leave lines connected but run the tapes
      20
    • Disconnect 1 or more lines, run the tapes and re-connect
      4


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I do foredeck on a J/105. The sewerman on our boat and I go back and forth over how much cleaning up the kite needs after a take down. The kite gets taken down

 

clew

foot

belly

head

tack

 

We do not use a retreival line attached to the tack.

 

I think the kite should be left alone, Sewerman thinks other wise.

 

What do you think?

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unless the take down is all fucked up, the kite should come out just like it came down.

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Agreed.

 

We only mess with the kite after a takedown if it's was fucked up or we feel the kite should be re-banded/wooled. We band/wool the kite if the breeze is up (20+) especially for the first hoist when the boats are likely to be less spread out.

 

EDIT: all in past tense of course

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not 105 specific really... On the 109 i only like to have the tapes run if the douse was slow, i saw the sail twist as it went down, or it was a cluster fuck... Otherwise, just make sure you spread the clew and tack on the set - or you're liable to have a twist even if the kite is clean.

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Here's my thinking on the matter

 

Not a clusterfuck: Hoist it back up right out of the hatch. Might be a good idea to spread it out a little.

Not sure if it was a clusterfuck: Have somebody take a quick peek

Clusterfuck: Run tapes

Wind is high: String up the head, follow not a clusterfuck proceedure.

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Priority one: leave it alone if it looked ok (and by OK, I mean anything short of seriously screwed up i.e. 9 times out of 10 even a cluster will resolve itself), and really think hard before untying anything. Most times it will be just fine to close the hatch on it and forget about it.

 

If you have to untie anything, you might be best to untie everything - just to be sure.

 

My favorite tip for running the tapes is to start from the tack or clew and get the whole foot first. that way any wraps get pushed up the sail towards the halyard, which should have a swivel.

 

It is really not worth extra time down below and weight off the rail as you are trying to maintain a lane on port after a busy mark rounding. But one of my favorite times of the race! IMHO, getting put away and into upwind mode can be a better place-gainer than saving a few seconds on the set.

 

It can determine whether your tactics are in your own hands or not for the 2nd beat, as well as helping the back of the boat keep their head in the game at some of the most crucial driving moments (quick opportunity windows to escape to the left if that's what you want to do).

 

Sewerman: Just dog the hatch (that the bow closed on you), and sprint back to the rail. Oh, and then don't go yelling for the back of the boat to help pull slack out of your spinsheets. They are busy.

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Sewerman: Just dog the hatch (that the bow closed on you), and sprint back to the rail. Oh, and then don't go yelling for the back of the boat to help pull slack out of your spinsheets. They are busy.

 

:lol: we had a new pit guy this year. He yelled once at us to tidy things us. We withheld the beer for the rest of the race from him............

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30 seconds is too long to be off the rail in hiking conditions. If the breeze is very light and everyone is low side or in the house, you might as well take a look.

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Only run the tapes if you had a nasty drop, and only run the leach and foot. The luff is longer on Asyms and takes longer to run.

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It seems to me that if your squirrel weighs more a few real squirrels, they're probably doing more good on the rail upwind than you'll lose for anything but a persistent hourglass on the way down. Having a pit and bow or mast who know how to get twists out quietly and efficiently is key.

 

Whoever said that the beginnings of upwind legs are great times to gain or lose boats is right.

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Sailed past may who assumed the kite didn't need to be looked at. The squirrel is already down there having him take a 30 second look will mean nothing compared to slow hoist.

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It isn't the running of tapes that I have a problem with it's the disconnecting of the lines. At least once a year, the lazy sheet will get wrapped around the tack all because one of the lines was disconnected. I'm not talking about the sheet ending up outside the luff (we can deal with that), I'm talking about a complete turn around the belly of the sail that ends up having to be worked out during the set and then the sheet needs to be cleared.

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The bowman should be able to make that call.

 

If tapes must be run and the kite is wet, it's usu. more than 30 secs. 2 sides of the kite will get you there.

The notion of running the foot first to move any twist up the kite is a good one.

 

Detach sheets, and unless you are VERY careful, it means running it all.

 

Basically tho, if everyone's working in concert and they know how to douse, it won't need running.

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It seems to me that if your squirrel weighs more a few real squirrels, they're probably doing more good on the rail upwind than you'll lose for anything but a persistent hourglass on the way down. Having a pit and bow or mast who know how to get twists out quietly and efficiently is key.

 

Whoever said that the beginnings of upwind legs are great times to gain or lose boats is right.

 

 

Who says you have to do it at the beginning of the leg? Drop the kite, get to the rail, go fast. Send lightest guy on the rail below at another convenient time during the weather leg if needed.

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quit screwing around up there and get your ass on the rail. if you wrapped it on the way down you better be able to clear it when it comes back out the hatch on the way up. either way you're not allowed to hang out down below during the race and if it happens again you get the flick

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You guys actually get the kite DOWN the hatch before heading up wind? I thought that the J105 style was to turn the corner with the kite half wrapped around the foredeck dude and half in the water.

 

Not J105-bashing - I have a friend who might sometimes sail a J105 like this :D

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We put it in the water, turn on the engine and back off it.

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It seems to me that if your squirrel weighs more a few real squirrels, they're probably doing more good on the rail upwind than you'll lose for anything but a persistent hourglass on the way down. Having a pit and bow or mast who know how to get twists out quietly and efficiently is key.

 

Whoever said that the beginnings of upwind legs are great times to gain or lose boats is right.

 

 

Who says you have to do it at the beginning of the leg? Drop the kite, get to the rail, go fast. Send lightest guy on the rail below at another convenient time during the weather leg if needed.

 

+1

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It seems to me that if your squirrel weighs more a few real squirrels, they're probably doing more good on the rail upwind than you'll lose for anything but a persistent hourglass on the way down. Having a pit and bow or mast who know how to get twists out quietly and efficiently is key.

 

Whoever said that the beginnings of upwind legs are great times to gain or lose boats is right.

 

 

Who says you have to do it at the beginning of the leg? Drop the kite, get to the rail, go fast. Send lightest guy on the rail below at another convenient time during the weather leg if needed.

 

agree from here as well

 

as always there is no right answer for every condition, but hopefully you get the idea now that there are some key principles:

 

acceleration and settling the boat is the priority after the drop (assuming kite is on board of course!)

get back up to speed and assess your tactics first

did the drop go OK or not? if not, then you might need to run the tapes, at some appropriate point on the upwind leg

only disconnect a line or two as a last resort, if absolutely necessary, during a race

 

+1

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We put it in the water, turn on the engine and back off it.

 

 

I thought that was a 36.7 technique.............

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actually, our squirrel is usually larger than me, so we get it down & he goes to the rail. I generally use a tack retriever and manage to bring it right down the middle of the sail so it will go right back up. I'll go down and spread it out mid leg or so unless I know it's screwed up.

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Agreed.

 

We only mess with the kite after a takedown if it's was fucked up or we feel the kite should be re-banded/wooled. We band/wool the kite if the breeze is up (20+) especially for the first hoist when the boats are likely to be less spread out.

 

EDIT: all in past tense of course

 

 

bands on a 105...interesting B)

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H

Agreed.

 

We only mess with the kite after a takedown if it's was fucked up or we feel the kite should be re-banded/wooled. We band/wool the kite if the breeze is up (20+) especially for the first hoist when the boats are likely to be less spread out.

 

EDIT: all in past tense of course

 

 

bands on a 105...interesting B)

 

 

He probably has his forececk shimmy out to the end of the sprit with a fid to blow the tack on takedowns too!!! :lol::lol:

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grab a handful of redvines and hit the rail, tool

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grab a handful of redvines and hit the rail, tool

Don't like Redvines, get all crumbly in the sun.

eat faster

 

 

Or, hit'em with a rusty hammer.....

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grab a handful of redvines and hit the rail, tool

Don't like Redvines, get all crumbly in the sun.

eat faster

 

 

Or, hit'em with a rusty hammer.....

 

 

rusty hammers make me fart

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only 4lb rusty hammers.. but if you hit it hard enough, no twists.

check that box, I know

 

now it's a wHOLE 'nother story in the really lite breeze, then u can run the tapes if u have the O down below, just hide the cookies, or it does not apply

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only 4lb rusty hammers.. but if you hit it hard enough, no twists.

check that box, I know

 

now it's a wHOLE 'nother story in the really lite breeze, then u can run the tapes if u have the O down below, just hide the cookies, or it does not apply

 

 

give him enough cookies and he MIGHT let you peek at the GPS

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H
Agreed.

 

We only mess with the kite after a takedown if it's was fucked up or we feel the kite should be re-banded/wooled. We band/wool the kite if the breeze is up (20+) especially for the first hoist when the boats are likely to be less spread out.

 

EDIT: all in past tense of course

 

 

bands on a 105...interesting B)

 

 

He probably has his forececk shimmy out to the end of the sprit with a fid to blow the tack on takedowns too!!! :lol::lol:

That would explain the harness.

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unlikely

 

if we look at it we don't win

 

just keep "smokin" the course and lick'n the chicken bucket bro

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H
Agreed.

 

We only mess with the kite after a takedown if it's was fucked up or we feel the kite should be re-banded/wooled. We band/wool the kite if the breeze is up (20+) especially for the first hoist when the boats are likely to be less spread out.

 

EDIT: all in past tense of course

 

 

bands on a 105...interesting B)

 

 

He probably has his forececk shimmy out to the end of the sprit with a fid to blow the tack on takedowns too!!! :lol::lol:

That would explain the harness.

 

not wanting to speak for jambalaya, but i think he does a lot of short handed sailing. I mean hell, i banded the kite on our 109 once in 0kts. I may have been very bored, it may have been a long distance race, and i may not have gotten the last two on the head to pop, but it kept me occupied till the wind line didnt get to us.

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not wanting to speak for jambalaya, but i think he does a lot of short handed sailing. I mean hell, i banded the kite on our 109 once in 0kts. I may have been very bored, it may have been a long distance race, and i may not have gotten the last two on the head to pop, but it kept me occupied till the wind line didnt get to us.

 

 

 

no redvines available, I'm just guess'n

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H
Agreed.

 

We only mess with the kite after a takedown if it's was fucked up or we feel the kite should be re-banded/wooled. We band/wool the kite if the breeze is up (20+) especially for the first hoist when the boats are likely to be less spread out.

 

EDIT: all in past tense of course

 

 

bands on a 105...interesting B)

 

 

He probably has his forececk shimmy out to the end of the sprit with a fid to blow the tack on takedowns too!!! :lol::lol:

That would explain the harness.

 

Bands/wool in over 20 work great on the first hoist where you want to be sure it's clean. We've put the kite up in over 30 two handed and it's much less drama if it's banded/wooled - have tried it both ways. Kite are masthead 95sqm. Bands/wool on tack and first 1/3rd of head.

 

Bowman doesn't wear a harness, we don't use a sewer person when racing French OD (6 crew) we do with UK OD (7 crew)

 

Fond memories ...

 

post-3223-1264124420_thumb.jpg

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Bowman doesn't wear a harness

That was just a slight inside joke intended for some people who might have witnessed this a couple years ago.

 

I think I remember someone putting yarns on the kite before windy race, a week or two after a shrimping episode at a top mark. It didn't become a habit, that is, neither the nor the shrimping.

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Never ever run the tapes during a race. It went down, it will go back up. Just be sure that when it comes down, the tack goes in last, since you know it will go out first at the next windward mark. Whatever tangled mess it APPEARS to be, will shake itself out as it fills 999 times out of 1000.

 

And whatever you do, don't EVER unclip a corner after it comes down to straighten it out. If you do that, you are really F'd.

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MoeAlfa - all fun and games, no offence taken.

 

Nice! - had a bowman who liked to use a take-down line but we found the kite was usually twisted as it went into hatch tack first. Another 105 uses a block at mast foot for purchase on the take-down line and never seems to have a problem .. more than one way to crack a nut.

 

A quick tip which I am sure many of you know but which I heard after 10yrs of sailing ... run the tapes from the tack or clew to the head, it makes taking a twist out easier as the head spins more easily the the whole foot of the sail if you run from the head down.

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Never assume. ALWAYS be sure. Takes 30 seconds for the sewer to run the tapes.

 

-1

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grab a handful of redvines and hit the rail, tool

Don't like Redvines, get all crumbly in the sun.

eat faster

 

 

Or, hit'em with a rusty hammer.....

 

 

rusty hammers make me fart

 

 

Let's be honest here. Everthing makes you fart.

 

You are a walking Dutch Oven waiting to happen.

 

You fart more than Barkley.

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is this debate really going on...

 

unless you have a crappy bow/sewer there is no reason to run the tapes. that said if you do feel that it is necessary get your butt back on the rail and wait until the the boat is up to speed.

 

banding?!?

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is this debate really going on...

 

unless you have a crappy bow/sewer there is no reason to run the tapes. that said if you do feel that it is necessary get your butt back on the rail and wait until the the boat is up to speed.

 

banding?!?

 

Banding/stopping is nice as long as it's done between races, not while going up wind. When we do decide to put stops in the kite, we tie on yard instead of the kite through the bucket deal.

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grab a handful of redvines and hit the rail, tool

Don't like Redvines, get all crumbly in the sun.

eat faster

 

 

Or, hit'em with a rusty hammer.....

 

 

rusty hammers make me fart

 

 

Let's be honest here. Everthing makes you fart.

 

You are a walking Dutch Oven waiting to happen.

 

You fart more than Barkley.

 

 

word.

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banding?

yarn?

buckets?

tape running?

redvines?

takedown lines?

 

it was already said..

 

goes up out of the hatch

 

at the other end of the track do the reverese with the same equipment

 

pretty simple

 

 

seriously?!?

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banding?

yarn?

buckets?

tape running?

redvines?

takedown lines?

 

it was already said..

 

goes up out of the hatch

 

at the other end of the track do the reverese with the same equipment

 

pretty simple

 

 

seriously?!?

 

 

word.

pull on all 3 corners as fast as possible and quit yer whining

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banding?

yarn?

buckets?

tape running?

redvines?

takedown lines?

 

it was already said..

 

goes up out of the hatch

 

at the other end of the track do the reverese with the same equipment

 

pretty simple

 

 

seriously?!?

 

 

word.

pull on all 3 corners as fast as possible and quit yer whining

 

3' new snow. Sweet!

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potato

 

tackline

 

yarn

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Banding on a J/105 is a great example of what I call "bigboatitis".

This is an unfortunate condition of people who don't have enough to do with their time and for some reason they think they are back racing IOR maxi's.

These are the same guys with the harnesses and fids in their gear bag. Oh, and they will often wear dinghy tops with rubber necks over their foredeck union shirts.

 

And, yes, I was kind of one of this gang too back in my early twenties. Thought I was so cool.

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Banding the kite on the boat is very useful in stronger winds, particularly two handed. It's not essential but takes only a short while. You'll note I say typically on the first hoist, we can band the kite prior to the start/at the dock. In fact we typically pack the heavy reacher back into the bag banded as it's most commonly used around high twenties/30 as a chicken chute.

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Raced on a 105 for years & we never packed the chute, never mind re-pack.

 

Got to the dock, ran 2 tapes and tied on all the strings, except the halyard which had a shackle with a swivel.

 

Unless we wrapped it on the way down, that was it for the day.

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To bad this thread isn't on the main Board so everyone can enjoy these insightful thoughts on managing a chute.

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H
Agreed.

 

We only mess with the kite after a takedown if it's was fucked up or we feel the kite should be re-banded/wooled. We band/wool the kite if the breeze is up (20+) especially for the first hoist when the boats are likely to be less spread out.

 

EDIT: all in past tense of course

 

 

bands on a 105...interesting B)

 

 

He probably has his forececk shimmy out to the end of the sprit with a fid to blow the tack on takedowns too!!! :lol::lol:

That would explain the harness.

 

Bands/wool in over 20 work great on the first hoist where you want to be sure it's clean. We've put the kite up in over 30 two handed and it's much less drama if it's banded/wooled - have tried it both ways. Kite are masthead 95sqm. Bands/wool on tack and first 1/3rd of head.

 

Bowman doesn't wear a harness, we don't use a sewer person when racing French OD (6 crew) we do with UK OD (7 crew)

 

Fond memories ...

 

post-3223-1264124420_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

That picture doesn't look right. Yer kite is hoisted too high and your main is made out of funny lookin material. :rolleyes: I wish ours looked like that. Nice picture.

 

I don't understand why the kite would be packed.. I unpack it before the 1st hoist. As for the banding.. necessary? No. To each their own tho.

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H
Agreed.

 

We only mess with the kite after a takedown if it's was fucked up or we feel the kite should be re-banded/wooled. We band/wool the kite if the breeze is up (20+) especially for the first hoist when the boats are likely to be less spread out.

 

EDIT: all in past tense of course

 

 

bands on a 105...interesting B)

 

 

He probably has his forececk shimmy out to the end of the sprit with a fid to blow the tack on takedowns too!!! :lol::lol:

That would explain the harness.

 

Bands/wool in over 20 work great on the first hoist where you want to be sure it's clean. We've put the kite up in over 30 two handed and it's much less drama if it's banded/wooled - have tried it both ways. Kite are masthead 95sqm. Bands/wool on tack and first 1/3rd of head.

 

Bowman doesn't wear a harness, we don't use a sewer person when racing French OD (6 crew) we do with UK OD (7 crew)

 

Fond memories ...

 

post-3223-1264124420_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

That picture doesn't look right. Yer kite is hoisted too high and your main is made out of funny lookin material. :rolleyes: I wish ours looked like that. Nice picture.

 

I don't understand why the kite would be packed.. I unpack it before the 1st hoist. As for the banding.. necessary? No. To each their own tho.

 

It's the whomper

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He probably has his forececk shimmy out to the end of the sprit with a fid to blow the tack on takedowns too!!! :lol::lol:

That would explain the harness.

 

Bands/wool in over 20 work great on the first hoist where you want to be sure it's clean. We've put the kite up in over 30 two handed and it's much less drama if it's banded/wooled - have tried it both ways. Kite are masthead 95sqm. Bands/wool on tack and first 1/3rd of head.

 

Bowman doesn't wear a harness, we don't use a sewer person when racing French OD (6 crew) we do with UK OD (7 crew)

 

Fond memories ...

 

post-3223-1264124420_thumb.jpg

 

Sweet jesus you Brits have 7 crew on a 105 for OD :o

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