Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

wajamamaj

Why so few other successful brands w/ the bowsprit design

Recommended Posts

OK, so Beneteau tried with the 10R.

Multiple others have other options, but nothing from a major builder that has stuck.

 

Farr 395 I guess.

C&C kind of. Please can we abolish the extruded toerails?

 

Then there are multiple "sportier" alternatives.

 

Why isn't someone else going straight for J/Boats with effective dual purpose boats with sprits?

 

Like Sabre. Or even some of the European brands - Dufour perhaps?

Dehler would be a good one, but now defunct.

 

Hey Bill Stevens: Opportunity.

 

And why the heck is the 10R so damn Ikea inside? Ugh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OK, so Beneteau tried with the 10R.

Multiple others have other options, but nothing from a major builder that has stuck.

 

Farr 395 I guess.

C&C kind of. Please can we abolish the extruded toerails?

 

Then there are multiple "sportier" alternatives.

 

Why isn't someone else going straight for J/Boats with effective dual purpose boats with sprits?

 

Like Sabre. Or even some of the European brands - Dufour perhaps?

Dehler would be a good one, but now defunct.

 

Hey Bill Stevens: Opportunity.

 

And why the heck is the 10R so damn Ikea inside? Ugh.

 

 

Like this Dufour?

 

http://www.dufour-yachts.com/index.php?id=19

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

J-Boats dominate the market, especially at the medium size range so I think it's tough to break in, if you want a sprit boat you have a strong brand selling good boats with dealer support, OD etc. For smaller boats you have the Melges and other sporty brands who can compete and at the larger end many custom designs have short sprints, eg TP52s, but that's a size in which J don't really play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just saying it seems like an untapped opportunity for the other big manufacturers.

Heck, how about even Catalina?

 

Sure there are folks who don't want sprits. J has boats for them too.

 

Yeah, I saw that Dufour before. Could be interesting if they bring that down to the more accessible sizes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Melges 32?

Flying Tiger FT10?

Henderson 30?

Cape Fear 38?

 

There are a few non-J's out there with a sprit...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely there are. But with the exception of the Cape Fear, those are full on sport boats - i.e. no pretense at all at dual-purpose.

 

Again, the closest I see is the First 10R. It seems like those guys maybe should have kept going with models, fine-tuning as they went. Maybe they were planning it buy market conditions got in the way. Should have tried earlier, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think one big issue is that historically, the sprit hasn't really been ideal for racing under handicap or rating schemes for cruiser/racers in the 35-45ft range.

 

remember that j boats mostly built sprits because it was easier, not necessarily because it was faster in a vmg sense.

 

so..., for cruising, or one design racing it didn't matter if they weren't the absolute fastest way to go DDW.

 

now, it seems that under IRC sprit vs. pole may be a bit closer, but i think i might still give the nod to the pole for W/L racing under IRC. I think that's why, for example, we don't see X-Yachts building sprit X-41's..., they are unwilling to give up even a tiny IRC advantage for the boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the fact that a lot of internal space is lost in the forward cabin when a 'knobber' is fitted. Even the big J Boats lose volume and aesthetics with the pole casing running over the top of the starboard berth. To say nothing of the water ingress in the smaller boats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the fact that a lot of internal space is lost in the forward cabin when a 'knobber' is fitted. Even the big J Boats lose volume and aesthetics with the pole casing running over the top of the starboard berth. To say nothing of the water ingress in the smaller boats.

 

 

it's not just the smaller boats that get a lot of water in through the sprit - J-120 gets a ton of water in.

 

but i thought the newer boats have a system that keeps the water out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the fact that a lot of internal space is lost in the forward cabin when a 'knobber' is fitted. Even the big J Boats lose volume and aesthetics with the pole casing running over the top of the starboard berth. To say nothing of the water ingress in the smaller boats.

 

The pole casing creates a problem in that you cannot repair the sprit offshore, never had a problem on in 10yrs but you could do.

 

Secondly so much water gets into the boat from so many places the bowsprit is the least of your problems !

 

Some of the UK 105's had a neat carbon outer made which significantly reduced inflow. One boat focused on longer offshore passages had a cover made with a jubilee clip which was tightened for long beats offshore in heavy weather. We duct-taped up the forehatch if we expected heavy air upwind at the start (that goes with the banded/wooled kite from the other thread by the way)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have raced my J/105 in South Africa (French built) in some truly horrific conditions around 40kts and beating into Indian Ocean swell of 4-5 m also lots of 18-20kt downwind sailing and I would characterise the boat as bone dry except for the stuff that goes down the main companionway or a wet spinnaker after takedown... No leaking through the sprit or the front hatch... .

 

Maybe its an issue of replacing seals regularly? My boat was launched in 06 so not that old but we've done 4000 Nautical miles in her..

 

I see an O-Ring on the outside entrance to the sprit tube that I would imagine also needs regular replacement.

post-11004-1264461351_thumb.jpg

 

If my experiance is atypical then I count myself lucky as hell as I cant stand leaks in a boat!

 

In my boat the bowsprit tube (not the sprit itself) has a 50mm hole in the underside where it runs through the anchor locker so any water that gets past the front seal should drain into the anchor locker before making it into the boat. Also at the interior exit of the bowsprit there is another "nylon" collar that is sika'ed into that anchor locker aft "bulkhead" so I am quite surprised to hear of all the leaks? Sureley all the other bigger J's with anchor lockers should have this same setup?

post-11004-1264461216_thumb.jpg

 

What we have managed to do is blow about 4 sets of thru deck harken blocks mounted on the aft end of the sprit in big wind. Eventually I found that Harken has a custom extra strength version where they weld the two metal pieces to each other (to stop the block distorting as shown) and also provide a stainless cover instead of plastic. Since then no probs but I always wondered if all the other sprits inboard ends were set up this way and if so why the supplied blocks are not stronger? Also we never had a bungi system to retract the sprit as we just pull on the tackline to do this and keep it well Mc Lubed so why do all the American boats have the bungi retreival system?

post-11004-1264461234_thumb.jpg

post-11004-1264461241_thumb.jpg

 

I have to second Jambalaya in agreeing the the 105 is one hell of a underestimated offshore boat in bad weather. I am truly amazed at how much punishment it can take and still feel solid and safe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The King 40 has it as an option, and so does the Summit 35...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

also A35s come with a sprit option.

 

here in HK we have two with poles and one with sprit (red Kite 2) and racing W/L's on IRC the sprit boat does well, and dare I say it, is perhaps the leading A35 in the light to medium winds

 

no surprises that poles go better in the windier stuff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites