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DryArmour

She sets off- Abby Sunderland

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Teen Sets Out On Solo, Worldwide Sailing Trip

 

 

MARINA DEL REY, Calif. (CBS) -- Sixteen-year-old sailor Abby Sunderland set out from Marina del Rey Saturday on a nonstop, solo trip around the world. If the winds are favorable, she could become the youngest person to ever do it.

 

She had a look of "resolution" on her face as she sailed out of the marina, determined to take on a voyage that she has been longing for since she was 13, spokesperson Matt Tolnick said.

"Throughout the press conference she was very confident. She knows about the risk. I think the basic message was to not give up on your dreams," Tolnick said. "There were close to a dozen boats escorting her out. The Sheriff's Department and Los Angeles County lifeguard boats were a part of the send off, beeping and sending out water."

 

The Thousand Oaks teenager had been waiting for the local weather to break.

 

She is sailing in a high-tech open-ocean racing design called Wild Eyes -- an Open 40.

 

From Cape Horn, she will head east into the South Atlantic and around the Cape of Good Hope, through the Indian Ocean and back into the Pacific. The entire trip could take about six months.

 

"I had begun to think that dreams are meant to be more than dreams and that in reality dreams don't come true," Abby wrote on her Web site. "Then my brother (Zac) left on his trip. It was amazing to see all the support that he got from around the world and to see who everyone worked together to help make his dream reality. Watching him do this really made me believe that I could too."

 

Sutherland's older brother Zac briefly became the world's youngest solo circumnavigator last year at age 17.

 

Click HERE to Visit Abby's Blog

 

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That was quick. She just got the boat about a month ago if I remember correctly. You think she would want a little more time go get to know the boat. But I guess time is of the essence if she wants to break the record.

 

 

 

Teen Sets Out On Solo, Worldwide Sailing Trip

 

 

MARINA DEL REY, Calif. (CBS) -- Sixteen-year-old sailor Abby Sunderland set out from Marina del Rey Saturday on a nonstop, solo trip around the world. If the winds are favorable, she could become the youngest person to ever do it.

 

She had a look of "resolution" on her face as she sailed out of the marina, determined to take on a voyage that she has been longing for since she was 13, spokesperson Matt Tolnick said.

"Throughout the press conference she was very confident. She knows about the risk. I think the basic message was to not give up on your dreams," Tolnick said. "There were close to a dozen boats escorting her out. The Sheriff's Department and Los Angeles County lifeguard boats were a part of the send off, beeping and sending out water."

 

The Thousand Oaks teenager had been waiting for the local weather to break.

 

She is sailing in a high-tech open-ocean racing design called Wild Eyes -- an Open 40.

 

From Cape Horn, she will head east into the South Atlantic and around the Cape of Good Hope, through the Indian Ocean and back into the Pacific. The entire trip could take about six months.

 

"I had begun to think that dreams are meant to be more than dreams and that in reality dreams don't come true," Abby wrote on her Web site. "Then my brother (Zac) left on his trip. It was amazing to see all the support that he got from around the world and to see who everyone worked together to help make his dream reality. Watching him do this really made me believe that I could too."

 

Sutherland's older brother Zac briefly became the world's youngest solo circumnavigator last year at age 17.

 

Click HERE to Visit Abby's Blog

 

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That was quick. She just got the boat about a month ago if I remember correctly. You think she would want a little more time go get to know the boat. But I guess time is of the essence if she wants to break the record.

 

Yeah, not ideal setting off with a bunch of newly-installed stuff that's only been shaken down on a couple of quick overnight jaunts. Also she's setting out a bit later than originally planned. Hope she's made of the same stuff as Jessica Watson. But she set to goal to go, and she's left the dock. Fair winds Abby.

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Like I mentioned in her other thread last night, Channel 11 news gave her a couple of minutes of air time at the beginning of the hour. She struck me as being veeeery young. And 2 years younger than The Nursetta. As a semi-paranoid parent, I'd think I'd be acting like a semi-paranoid parent if'n she was mine. But our family wishes her all the luck in the world and hope she pulls this off with nary a scratch.

 

Sail safe, Abby........

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Like I mentioned in her other thread last night, Channel 11 news gave her a couple of minutes of air time at the beginning of the hour. She struck me as being veeeery young. And 2 years younger than The Nursetta. As a semi-paranoid parent, I'd think I'd be acting like a semi-paranoid parent if'n she was mine. But our family wishes her all the luck in the world and hope she pulls this off with nary a scratch.

 

Sail safe, Abby........

 

hi gina... i mean... someone else not gina...

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Considering Reid Stowe's ability to drift around for 1000 days without major incident, she might just make it. But Reid's got a heavy ferrocement monster, and little Jess's boat is also stout and cruisy compared to Abby's Open 40, which will do 10 knots or more under bare poles in a big storm. It could get really ugly for her.

 

Compared to Jess Watson, Abby comes off as somewhat clueless - and after all, who else are you going to compare a 16 year old circumnavigation candidate to? Then again, as her papa says, "we're born-again Christians, and ultimately it's all up to god" or something like that. It's toward the end of this clip.

 

And to echo Boothy - I hope all these kids succeed. Certainly ain't a bad thing to have more interest in singlehanding.

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Considering Reid Stowe's ability to drift around for 1000 days without major incident, she might just make it. But Reid's got a heavy ferrocement monster, and little Jess's boat is also stout and cruisy compared to Abby's Open 40, which will do 10 knots or more under bare poles in a big storm. It could get really ugly for her.

 

But compared to Jess Watson, Abby comes off as somewhat clueless. Then again, as her papa says, "we're born-again Christians, and ultimately it's all up to god" or something like that. It's toward the end of this clip.

 

You're kidding me, aintcha? That strategy has been proven time and time again for over 2 millennia as to be about as trustworthy as the f'ng ryhthm method........

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At 7:00

We're born-again Christians and nothing is... we don't make any decision just based on a feeling, or even on sound knowledge, we also pray about it.

 

 

 

Hmmm. Like Boothy, excuse me I mean El Mariachi, or El (may I call you that?), I'm pretty sure my 17-year old isn't ready for that big a mission.

 

Nice boat! Pretty big step up from the Islander 36 her brother had. I wonder how they swung the finances.

 

All the best to her, and fair winds!

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I wonder how they swung the finances.

 

I would guess they're betting on the come. They'll sell the story to Entertainment Tonight or any other one of those useless gossip tv shows. The only way the family loses is if she doesn't make it in time to set the youngest record. If she does make it or if she dies or sinks in the attempt, the family will get paid enough to pay off the boat.

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And I'm of the feeling that if she dies or sinks, her family is going to have to buy passage on Reid's boat and go into hiding for a 1000 days. I don't see where any financial reward would materialize out of either of those two scenarios. Especially the first.........

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Just heard that she has no kites aboard. Her possible average just went WAY down, can't imagine she'll be out of the Southern Ocean before things get bad.

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Just heard that she has no kites aboard. Her possible average just went WAY down, can't imagine she'll be out of the Southern Ocean before things get bad.

 

 

Thats not going to help her outrun storms :lol:

 

That said, she's a cute thing. I'd hit it ;)

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Cheezus, 16 years old! When my girls got their driver's licenses at age 17 I made them call me every time they arrived and left any destination and even then I worried :P

Can't even imagine.......

 

Fair winds Jess and Abby.

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Since Zac lost, its only right that Abby give it a go.

 

and if she fails, well... atleast there's 4 more Sunderland kids to make the family's fortune. One of them has to win eventually!

 

I hope she survives.

 

and I hope all those shoes do not end up in baby albatross bellies. :D

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Who wrote the crap on the front page? It's a fucking Open 40, not a Farr 40. The thing was built specifically for solo sailing and the story makes it sound like some kind of uncontrollable beast. Also, I don't give a fuck about her religion. If the author has a problem with a family expressing their faith perhaps the author needs to square with his/her own issues.

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Who wrote the crap on the front page? It's a fucking Open 40, not a Farr 40. The thing was built specifically for solo sailing and the story makes it sound like some kind of uncontrollable beast. Also, I don't give a fuck about her religion. If the author has a problem with a family expressing their faith perhaps the author needs to square with his/her own issues.

 

well now you will know not to go to the homo I mean home page.

Friggen journo bullshit at its worse and it will never change.

 

Well it aint the best boat to do the trip in as I told her dad but I built it strong and good luck to her and I hope she comes home in one piece.

The worst part of the boats performance is above 25knts to windward so the quicker she gets down into the westerlies, the better.

 

good luck

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Who wrote the crap on the front page? It's a fucking Open 40, not a Farr 40. The thing was built specifically for solo sailing and the story makes it sound like some kind of uncontrollable beast. Also, I don't give a fuck about her religion. If the author has a problem with a family expressing their faith perhaps the author needs to square with his/her own issues.

The "crap on the front page" now calls it an "Open 40... with a questionable history", so it seems that the author read your post, Shife, and made the correction, albeit without a retraction.

 

There is a good deal of detail about the boat on Abby's site here, but since that would involve at least 3 mouse clicks from the forum, it may have exceeded the journalistic stamina of the nameless author of the piece.

 

The front page link to this thread goes to the post of Clean's where he states that there are no chutes on the boat; one may draw one's own conclusions.

 

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I have no idea how her parents can do it, ditto with Aussie chick.

 

I couldn't, wouldn't let my child do something like that, religion or not.

 

I don't know the whole backstory to either set of parents, but I wonder if they're okaying it because perhaps they don't realize the full extent of the risks of putting a teenage girl in a boat in the open ocean both from Mother Nature, Murphy and from bad mother-fu--ers.

 

I couldn't let my own kids do something like that because I know how lucky I am to be here after doing stuff not half as risky. I remember a bit about the Cali parents, but it sure makes me think that if they had any genuinely close calls they wouldn't be okay with this.

 

And the funny thing is that since Jessica managed, we've all seemed to drop our doubts, this is still a dangerous trip.

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I think she has a much better shot at it than a certain frypan-free young lady. I think she will make it, but there is a reason the BOC dropped the 40.

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The thing was built specifically for solo sailing and the story makes it sound like some kind of uncontrollable beast.

 

i'm curious why Zac didn't lend her his monitor wind vane. it seems like all of these record searcher's success hinge upon a functioning autopilot. is there a reason a vane can't steer this boat?

is the 'autopilot crapped out drama' a required chapter after 'the desalinator quit' in every damn one of these 'adventures'?

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Who wrote the crap on the front page? It's a fucking Open 40, not a Farr 40. The thing was built specifically for solo sailing and the story makes it sound like some kind of uncontrollable beast. Also, I don't give a fuck about her religion. If the author has a problem with a family expressing their faith perhaps the author needs to square with his/her own issues.

The "crap on the front page" now calls it an "Open 40... with a questionable history", so it seems that the author read your post, Shife, and made the correction, albeit without a retraction.

 

There is a good deal of detail about the boat on Abby's site here, but since that would involve at least 3 mouse clicks from the forum, it may have exceeded the journalistic stamina of the nameless author of the piece.

 

The front page link to this thread goes to the post of Clean's where he states that there are no chutes on the boat; one may draw one's own conclusions.

 

 

What is so questionable? We have the builder right here in this thread, some minor delam was noted on survey, is there something I have missed about this boat?

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In this day and age, good advertising does not come cheaply. I do not know how many kids the family has but sacrificing one for setting up a shoe business doesnt seem an unreasonable investment! Kids consume a lot of wealth up untill this age. It is time to pay it back.

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Just heard that she has no kites aboard. Her possible average just went WAY down, can't imagine she'll be out of the Southern Ocean before things get bad.

 

2010 UK Halsey Spectra/Carbon Tape Drive with double-sided taffeta Main

2010 UK Halsey Spectra/Carbon Tape Drive with double-sided taffeta Genoa

Code 0

Storm Jib

2010 UK Halsey Spectra/Carbon Tape Drive with double-sided taffeta Stay Sail

All with Individual Custom Socks

 

No spares? I know she's supposed to make it around pretty fast, so they should last, but sails rip.

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2010 UK Halsey Spectra/Carbon Tape Drive with double-sided taffeta Main

2010 UK Halsey Spectra/Carbon Tape Drive with double-sided taffeta Genoa

Code 0

Storm Jib

2010 UK Halsey Spectra/Carbon Tape Drive with double-sided taffeta Stay Sail

All with Individual Custom Socks

 

Whew! Given what I paid for my UK Halsey Tape Drive for my 4ksb, that Open 40 inventory is some major $$$$. I'm interested in how they hold up, though. That is, if they are given a chance to go round...

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Who wrote the crap on the front page? It's a fucking Open 40, not a Farr 40. The thing was built specifically for solo sailing and the story makes it sound like some kind of uncontrollable beast. Also, I don't give a fuck about her religion. If the author has a problem with a family expressing their faith perhaps the author needs to square with his/her own issues.

The "crap on the front page" now calls it an "Open 40... with a questionable history", so it seems that the author read your post, Shife, and made the correction, albeit without a retraction.

 

There is a good deal of detail about the boat on Abby's site here, but since that would involve at least 3 mouse clicks from the forum, it may have exceeded the journalistic stamina of the nameless author of the piece.

 

The front page link to this thread goes to the post of Clean's where he states that there are no chutes on the boat; one may draw one's own conclusions.

 

 

What is so questionable? We have the builder right here in this thread, some minor delam was noted on survey, is there something I have missed about this boat?

 

Boat already has a lot of offshore miles under it's keel and has fared pretty well so far.

 

It is a bit of a handful for anyone and might be slightly less comfortable than Jess's classic boat when riding out a storm but don't see it as being more likely to pitchpole or be much more dangerous if reasonably managed in those conditions.

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I think she has a much better shot at it than a certain frypan-free young lady. I think she will make it, but there is a reason the BOC dropped the 40.

 

 

The reasons why the IMOCA class and the BOC dropped the 40 have nothing to do with safety. They were dropped because the logisitics of race management meant the 60's finished, and then there was a week wait for the 50's to finish, and then there was another week wait for the 40's to finish. At every single race stop. Which meant port visits had to last longer, the media was already gone by the time the 50's got in let alone the 40's, and no one ended up very happy about the situation.

 

This particular boat's history is hardly questionable when it comes to safety. I have personally climbed around on her and in her and she is built like a tank. She made it around once, and has logged some miles since. There was apparently a small area of delam found during the survey which was repaired. Other than that, she is built strong and designed for safety over speed. The rig was even undersized versus the IMOCA rule limit at the time in order to provide an even greater margin of safety.

 

Moreover, in looking at the pictures on the web it looks like they have done a good job of getting a mini-refit done. I can't say I like the massive new dodger, but it will certainly give the girl shelter. It also looks like they have all new telecom equipment, and new running rigging to go along with her sails.

 

This boat is about as good a choice as could have been made for this trip. It is powered up, but even with that power it will have a remarkably neutral helm. It was also designed from the ground up for this type of sailing. It will also get her around more quickly than other choices, thus shortening the window of time she is facing danger. she is a physical boat, but nothing that a fit 16 year-old can't handle. The biggest struggle will be with getting the sails humped on and off the deck. Grinding in the head sails is not that big a deal, nor grinding in the main.

 

So if Abby fails in this trip, it won't be due to the boat. Instead, it will be due to her relative lack of preparation. Does she know how to get up and downt he mast on her own? Does she know how to repair the water maker? Does she know how to repair the sails, or splice a line? And so on....

 

She also better take those spare sheets and halyards off of the side deck where they are stowed. Water over the deck is going to wash them away in no time.

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Just heard that she has no kites aboard. Her possible average just went WAY down, can't imagine she'll be out of the Southern Ocean before things get bad.

 

2010 UK Halsey Spectra/Carbon Tape Drive with double-sided taffeta Main

2010 UK Halsey Spectra/Carbon Tape Drive with double-sided taffeta Genoa

Code 0

Storm Jib

2010 UK Halsey Spectra/Carbon Tape Drive with double-sided taffeta Stay Sail

All with Individual Custom Socks

 

Socks?

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Who wrote the crap on the front page? It's a fucking Open 40, not a Farr 40. The thing was built specifically for solo sailing and the story makes it sound like some kind of uncontrollable beast. Also, I don't give a fuck about her religion. If the author has a problem with a family expressing their faith perhaps the author needs to square with his/her own issues.

The "crap on the front page" now calls it an "Open 40... with a questionable history", so it seems that the author read your post, Shife, and made the correction, albeit without a retraction.

 

There is a good deal of detail about the boat on Abby's site here, but since that would involve at least 3 mouse clicks from the forum, it may have exceeded the journalistic stamina of the nameless author of the piece.

 

The front page link to this thread goes to the post of Clean's where he states that there are no chutes on the boat; one may draw one's own conclusions.

 

 

What is so questionable? We have the builder right here in this thread, some minor delam was noted on survey, is there something I have missed about this boat?

 

Having sailed numerous times on Wildeyes (former owner), she is by no means a "questionable" boat. Yeah, the 40s are slow, which is why the BOC dropped them, but they are very seaworthy. However, she is a bitch to try and get going up wind. Overall, she is a good boat, extremely well built, and without a doubt will be able to take her around, the only thing that can stop the boat from going around again (as Alan Paris' BTC Velocity for 2002 Around Alone) is Abby.

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I find the contempt for religious belief in the front page story to be a little sad. After reading the story, I listened to the video expecting a five minute long sermon. There were actually about two or three lines on their religious beliefs, none of it particularly preachy. The story had more about them praying than the video did. Why such contempt?

 

Go Abby!

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Considering Reid Stowe's ability to drift around for 1000 days without major incident, she might just make it. But Reid's got a heavy ferrocement monster, and little Jess's boat is also stout and cruisy compared to Abby's Open 40, which will do 10 knots or more under bare poles in a big storm. It could get really ugly for her.

 

Compared to Jess Watson, Abby comes off as somewhat clueless - and after all, who else are you going to compare a 16 year old circumnavigation candidate to? Then again, as her papa says, "we're born-again Christians, and ultimately it's all up to god" or something like that. It's toward the end of this clip.

 

And to echo Boothy - I hope all these kids succeed. Certainly ain't a bad thing to have more interest in singlehanding.

 

 

Clean you should have the 180 degree postion on this. If they succeed, parents keep sending their children out younger and younger until one dies. The whole project sounds like child abuse to me. We dont give full agency to people until 18- even driving a car around town is limited in certain ways, let along being alone in the southern ocean.

 

Why not seek records for the youngest firefighters, mountain climbers, and skydivers too ? The pursuit is asinine, dangerous, an insult to careful mariners everywhere and BOUND to end up in tragedy sooner or later.

 

What kind of a lawyer are you anyway ?

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I have to agree with Dawg on this one. I was in Ensenada when she received the boat, from afar it does not look like she has what it takes? Personally, I wish her the best. I also think her dad should pay for rescue service when they come.

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Clean you should have the 180 degree postion on this. If they succeed, parents keep sending their children out younger and younger until one dies. The whole project sounds like child abuse to me. We dont give full agency to people until 18- even driving a car around town is limited in certain ways, let along being alone in the southern ocean.

 

Why not seek records for the youngest firefighters, mountain climbers, and skydivers too ? The pursuit is asinine, dangerous, an insult to careful mariners everywhere and BOUND to end up in tragedy sooner or later.

 

What kind of a lawyer are you anyway ?

The pursuit may be asinine, but in a world of asinine pursuits all fighting for attention, at least it gets media exposure.

 

More importantly, why should anyone who doesn't know them care if a kid gets killed sailing around the world? Serious question. Who the fuck are you to make that decision for them? It's not like there's a population shortage, and it's not like plenty of adults haven't been killed on long voyages regardless of preparation. Sounds to me like you are a proponent of government control of victimless stupidity.

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Religious belief has nothing to do with sailing ability. However, if she didn't have religion before, I'll bet (like most of us) there'll be some bargaining done when things go pear-shaped. I don't care what religion she is, I don't even care how old she is. What I care about is that the only time in that video I saw her doing anything but holding the tiller was 1 semi-coil (and then stuff) of one line, and raising the main in zero wind at the end. I know it's a promotional video, but you'd think if they were really interested in promoting their trip, Dad wouldn't be the one you see predominantly pulling on the strings. I hear other people say they know this boat, but I don't get any sense that SHE knows this boat. Her level of preparation makes Ken Barnes look like Desjoyeaux. This has all the makings of a trip that will end badly - hopefully with her getting cold feet and pulling into Mexico or something.

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Abby's boat was designed and built for the Around Alone 2002 - 2003 yacht race in which I sailed her around the world.....slowly !! In many ways this boat is solid as a rock and built to an old IMOCA Class 50 ( yes Class 50 ) rule which includes 110% bouyancy, inverted instability rules, 5 water tight compartments blah blah. There is kevlar in the entire hull as well as 3 large sections filled with foam.

 

Downwind in 60kts she is just fine ( my highest velocity was just over 60 ) Upwind she is useless and requires great care. So Abby if one of your friends or family reads this, be VERY conservative of lee shores and expect to be able to at best attain a close reach of 80 degrees AWA.

 

Any other questions on the boat ??

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I don't get that one either. The escape hatch is mounted in the center of the stern, but the Pacific Pilot vane only weighs about 40lbs and can be mounted off center. The stern isn't as wide as the larger opens, so the paddle should stay in the water just fine. If she kept the boat at sub extreme surfing speeds, the vane should steer really great. I think Zac was too incompetent to really learn how to use his Monitor vane properly, so he most likely encouraged her to skip it. Zac mentions hand steering in rough weather, and that is just moronic with a good vane. I've sailed 30,000 miles with Monitor wind vanes, and the rougher it gets, the better they steer because of the yaw dampening with the paddle. At speed the helm power that these modern vanes generate is amazing.

 

Many people suggested they put a wind vane on Wild Eyes, but with God as her co-pilot, maybe it's not neccesary.

 

 

Any other questions on the boat ??

 

well, i wanted to know why a wind vane isn't fitted.

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Abby's boat was designed and built for the Around Alone 2002 - 2003 yacht race in which I sailed her around the world.....slowly !! In many ways this boat is solid as a rock and built to an old IMOCA Class 50 ( yes Class 50 ) rule which includes 110% bouyancy, inverted instability rules, 5 water tight compartments blah blah. There is kevlar in the entire hull as well as 3 large sections filled with foam.

 

Downwind in 60kts she is just fine ( my highest velocity was just over 60 ) Upwind she is useless and requires great care. So Abby if one of your friends or family reads this, be VERY conservative of lee shores and expect to be able to at best attain a close reach of 80 degrees AWA.

 

Any other questions on the boat ??

 

I know that some comment by one of the Sunderlands with respect to the boat's poor windward capabilities was made on their to trip to Fort Lauderdale. I don't know if they were informed in advance of the purchase or left to discover it themselves.

 

Too my inexperienced eye the boat lacks sufficient lateral area. Perhaps the trim tab on the keel was to compensate for this.

 

I owned one boat that under certain conditions when footing would walk to windward which mooted the AWA. Since this phenomenon occurred on either tack, I believed that the keel was true fore and aft.

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Too my inexperienced eye the boat lacks sufficient lateral area.

You may be right, but you also thought Marina Del Rey was in Rhode Island.

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Too my inexperienced eye the boat lacks sufficient lateral area.

You may be right, but you also thought Marina Del Rey was in Rhode Island.

 

You need to read things more closely.

 

When the Sunderlands were in Rhode Island to take delivery of Wild Eyes and to sail her to Fort Lauderdale, I posted to inquire if they had departed Rhode Island destined for Fort Lauderdale.

 

I have lived in Southern California probably before you were born. Sober up and get your facts straight.

 

I am also acquainted with Charleston since I was the managing owner of a Pearson 32 that was keep at Toler's Cove. When I retire in 3 years I plan to move current boat back to that area.

Hopefully you will have departed before then.

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Ugh,

This is even crazier than shithead Perham, well she has more preperation in that she has actually SAILED the boat before setting out,

and I agree that people are just going to keep trying this until someone dies, it's really crazy and should stop.........also, I saw Zach being pretty silent in the video, wonder what he thinks of it?

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Maybe Abby is not so self destructive in comparison.......

 

Good call, Wayne. Just ran across this news article where a 15 YO girl killed herself from intense bullying. I used to teach 6th grade and even at that age young girls are dealing with a ton of pressure to do stupid shit that will inevitably wreck their lives. It's probably safer out on the ocean. And just think about the life lessons...way better than going to the mall, worrying about makeup, playing video games, and whatever else kind of BS young women get wrapped up in.

 

Hope she has the skills to pull it! Go girl!

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Ugh,

This is even crazier than shithead Perham, well she has more preperation in that she has actually SAILED the boat before setting out,

and I agree that people are just going to keep trying this until someone dies, it's really crazy and should stop.........also, I saw Zach being pretty silent in the video, wonder what he thinks of it?

 

Life is but a brief flash of conscious existence. I would rather experience life and risk an untimely death than live smothering in a cocoon.

I would not lobby to deny that right to others.

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Welcome Mr. B. Solo,

 

No better then 80 degrees AWA.......you have got to be kidding.....

 

I just assumed that even dragging kelp Wild Eyes would go upwind better then Jessica's boat.

 

A wharram Tiki cat will even do 80.

 

With the route she is planning there is alot of upwind work.

 

 

Abby's boat was designed and built for the Around Alone 2002 - 2003 yacht race in which I sailed her around the world.....slowly !! In many ways this boat is solid as a rock and built to an old IMOCA Class 50 ( yes Class 50 ) rule which includes 110% bouyancy, inverted instability rules, 5 water tight compartments blah blah. There is kevlar in the entire hull as well as 3 large sections filled with foam.

 

Downwind in 60kts she is just fine ( my highest velocity was just over 60 ) Upwind she is useless and requires great care. So Abby if one of your friends or family reads this, be VERY conservative of lee shores and expect to be able to at best attain a close reach of 80 degrees AWA.

 

Any other questions on the boat ??

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Clean you should have the 180 degree postion on this. If they succeed, parents keep sending their children out younger and younger until one dies. The whole project sounds like child abuse to me. We dont give full agency to people until 18- even driving a car around town is limited in certain ways, let along being alone in the southern ocean.

 

Why not seek records for the youngest firefighters, mountain climbers, and skydivers too ? The pursuit is asinine, dangerous, an insult to careful mariners everywhere and BOUND to end up in tragedy sooner or later.

 

What kind of a lawyer are you anyway ?

The pursuit may be asinine, but in a world of asinine pursuits all fighting for attention, at least it gets media exposure.

 

More importantly, why should anyone who doesn't know them care if a kid gets killed sailing around the world? Serious question. Who the fuck are you to make that decision for them? It's not like there's a population shortage, and it's not like plenty of adults haven't been killed on long voyages regardless of preparation. Sounds to me like you are a proponent of government control of victimless stupidity.

 

 

 

1) so media exposure is the key value here

 

2) "why should anyone who doesn't know them care if a kid gets killed sailing around the world?" Again, what kind of lawyer would write that ? I dont know murder and rape victims either- so why should there be laws against that shit ? I dont know people in Haiti, so why donate ? WTF kind of logic is that ? Why not send a 9 year old into the southern ocean- it would generate a LOT of press ?

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Ugh,

This is even crazier than shithead Perham, well she has more preperation in that she has actually SAILED the boat before setting out,

and I agree that people are just going to keep trying this until someone dies, it's really crazy and should stop.........also, I saw Zach being pretty silent in the video, wonder what he thinks of it?

 

Life is but a brief flash of conscious existence. I would rather experience life and risk an untimely death than live smothering in a cocoon.

I would not lobby to deny that right to others.

 

 

the lobbying is to prevent the title of 'youngest around'. any of the concerned onlookers strongly agree that young people should have every right to experience adventure, the problem is that by associating a 'record' with the adventure, you create a financial incentive for younger and younger people to take on an 'adventure' that they may not be equipped for.

 

The death of crowhusrt on the teignmouth electron was due to a strong financial incentive for someone to undertake a task that they where insufficiently equipped for.

Eventually one of the 'title' contenders will die, they may die through misfortune, but the may die because they where hopelessly unprepared for the 'adventure' they have been shoehorned into.

 

This is why it is inappropriate to support any of these ventures in any way.

 

Let the kids sail round the world if they want to.... but deny them publicity and the chance for their parents and sponsors to make a few bucks by them doing so.

 

I would propose a much more significant record should be the fastest around for an under 21 yr old.

The whole 'youngest' around thing places no premium on ability, and gives no incentive to proper preparation.

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Religious belief has nothing to do with sailing ability. However, if she didn't have religion before, I'll bet (like most of us) there'll be some bargaining done when things go pear-shaped. I don't care what religion she is, I don't even care how old she is. What I care about is that the only time in that video I saw her doing anything but holding the tiller was 1 semi-coil (and then stuff) of one line, and raising the main in zero wind at the end. I know it's a promotional video, but you'd think if they were really interested in promoting their trip, Dad wouldn't be the one you see predominantly pulling on the strings. I hear other people say they know this boat, but I don't get any sense that SHE knows this boat. Her level of preparation makes Ken Barnes look like Desjoyeaux. This has all the makings of a trip that will end badly - hopefully with her getting cold feet and pulling into Mexico or something.

 

 

+ 1. I thought the exact same thing as I watched her dad hoist the main.

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Abby's boat was designed and built for the Around Alone 2002 - 2003 yacht race in which I sailed her around the world.....slowly !! In many ways this boat is solid as a rock and built to an old IMOCA Class 50 ( yes Class 50 ) rule which includes 110% bouyancy, inverted instability rules, 5 water tight compartments blah blah. There is kevlar in the entire hull as well as 3 large sections filled with foam.

 

Downwind in 60kts she is just fine ( my highest velocity was just over 60 ) Upwind she is useless and requires great care. So Abby if one of your friends or family reads this, be VERY conservative of lee shores and expect to be able to at best attain a close reach of 80 degrees AWA.

 

Any other questions on the boat ??

 

OK, somebody has to welcome this guy in the traditional SA way...

 

(Not me!)

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Ugh,

This is even crazier than shithead Perham, well she has more preperation in that she has actually SAILED the boat before setting out,

and I agree that people are just going to keep trying this until someone dies, it's really crazy and should stop.........also, I saw Zach being pretty silent in the video, wonder what he thinks of it?

 

Life is but a brief flash of conscious existence. I would rather experience life and risk an untimely death than live smothering in a cocoon.

I would not lobby to deny that right to others.

 

 

the lobbying is to prevent the title of 'youngest around'. any of the concerned onlookers strongly agree that young people should have every right to experience adventure, the problem is that by associating a 'record' with the adventure, you create a financial incentive for younger and younger people to take on an 'adventure' that they may not be equipped for.

 

The death of crowhusrt on the teignmouth electron was due to a strong financial incentive for someone to undertake a task that they where insufficiently equipped for.

Eventually one of the 'title' contenders will die, they may die through misfortune, but the may die because they where hopelessly unprepared for the 'adventure' they have been shoehorned into.

 

This is why it is inappropriate to support any of these ventures in any way.

 

Let the kids sail round the world if they want to.... but deny them publicity and the chance for their parents and sponsors to make a few bucks by them doing so.

 

I would propose a much more significant record should be the fastest around for an under 21 yr old.

The whole 'youngest' around thing places no premium on ability, and gives no incentive to proper preparation.

 

 

 

My point exaclty, stated with rather better form.

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1) so media exposure is the key value here

 

No, the key value is letting people make their own fucking decisions instead of advocating more bullshit nannying of people in the name of saving lives that aren't asking to be saved. The US and most countries have child labor laws; if she is indeed "being sent" like you claim, the state's proper channel to stop it is via their department of child welfare or whatever. If you actually give a crap, bitch to them, not to us.

 

"why should anyone who doesn't know them care if a kid gets killed sailing around the world?" Again, what kind of lawyer would write that?

At the risk of pointing out extremely obvious shit, lawyers are neither policemen nor legislators. I think you have the roles a bit confused here. A lawyer is generally the person you pay to fight for what you think the law says, not the person who decides what the law really is. The lawyer is the one that can argue any side of the issue.

 

I dont know murder and rape victims either- so why should there be laws against that shit ? I dont know people in Haiti, so why donate ? WTF kind of logic is that ? Why not send a 9 year old into the southern ocean- it would generate a LOT of press ?

 

You also seem unable to distinguish between people doing something of their own free will, and people who are injured or killed due to the actions of others or of disasters. If you really need to be explained the difference between a murder victim and a sailor who chooses to sail around the world and possibly gets hurt, you should probably be in some kind of facility for those of diminished mental capacity.

 

Even the Dutch government, which is far more intrusive into personal lives than ours, is out of the Laura Dekker situation after May of 2010, and that 13 year old will probably go solo sailing immediately afterward. But you actually seem to think that the US government should prevent people from traveling at age 15 or 16. Or is it just traveling on boats? Or would you prefer if a state or federal agency examined all trips by all minors and only allowed them to go if they met with their approval?

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I don't get that one either. The escape hatch is mounted in the center of the stern, but the Pacific Pilot vane only weighs about 40lbs and can be mounted off center. The stern isn't as wide as the larger opens, so the paddle should stay in the water just fine. If she kept the boat at sub extreme surfing speeds, the vane should steer really great. I think Zac was too incompetent to really learn how to use his Monitor vane properly, so he most likely encouraged her to skip it. Zac mentions hand steering in rough weather, and that is just moronic with a good vane. I've sailed 30,000 miles with Monitor wind vanes, and the rougher it gets, the better they steer because of the yaw dampening with the paddle. At speed the helm power that these modern vanes generate is amazing.

 

Many people suggested they put a wind vane on Wild Eyes, but with God as her co-pilot, maybe it's not neccesary.

 

 

Any other questions on the boat ??

 

well, i wanted to know why a wind vane isn't fitted.

 

We were thinking of mounting a wind vane to the stern, but a friend of ours though it a bad idea, the amount of load put on the vane when the boat is power up would have caused it to break or sheer off the boat completely.

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This is why it is inappropriate to support any of these ventures in any way.

 

Let the kids sail round the world if they want to.... but deny them publicity and the chance for their parents and sponsors to make a few bucks by them doing so.

 

I have always thought it to be purely colonial to tell others what is appropriate. This shit is interesting to people whether you think it should be or not. If they succeed at a young age at something that is not easy, they get publicity. If they fail quietly, they get little. If they die, they get a ton and their parents will be publicly humiliated and held up to scorn forever, never mind the pain they suffer for contributing to the loss of their kid.

 

The mainstream media doesn't understand how the records work, so they get suckered into the whole "youngest 'round" thing, but sailors should know that it is a bullshit record, and try to educate nonsailors whenever possible.

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Abby's boat was designed and built for the Around Alone 2002 - 2003 yacht race in which I sailed her around the world.....slowly !! In many ways this boat is solid as a rock and built to an old IMOCA Class 50 ( yes Class 50 ) rule which includes 110% bouyancy, inverted instability rules, 5 water tight compartments blah blah. There is kevlar in the entire hull as well as 3 large sections filled with foam.

 

Downwind in 60kts she is just fine ( my highest velocity was just over 60 ) Upwind she is useless and requires great care. So Abby if one of your friends or family reads this, be VERY conservative of lee shores and expect to be able to at best attain a close reach of 80 degrees AWA.

 

Any other questions on the boat ??

 

OK, somebody has to welcome this guy in the traditional SA way...

 

(Not me!)

 

 

Hey, Alan. Welcome to SA.

 

(what? that was not what you had in mind?)

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I have no idea how her parents can do it, ditto with Aussie chick.

 

I couldn't, wouldn't let my child do something like that, religion or not.

 

I don't know the whole backstory to either set of parents, but I wonder if they're okaying it because perhaps they don't realize the full extent of the risks of putting a teenage girl in a boat in the open ocean both from Mother Nature, Murphy and from bad mother-fu--ers.

 

I couldn't let my own kids do something like that because I know how lucky I am to be here after doing stuff not half as risky. I remember a bit about the Cali parents, but it sure makes me think that if they had any genuinely close calls they wouldn't be okay with this.

 

And the funny thing is that since Jessica managed, we've all seemed to drop our doubts, this is still a dangerous trip.

 

 

 

 

 

The Heene parents (aka Balloon Boy's parents)...looking for fame via their own kids...I see some sort of correlation here, but I could be way wrong...That point aside I do agree that these young kids are bringing some attention to our fantastic sport, I hope that Abby's journey is successful. If it's not, I think Child Protective Services has some cause to question the ability of the Sutherland's to adequetly raise their children...but again, lets hope for a successful circumnavigation for Abby.

 

 

balloon.jpg

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I heard that somewhere down there "there is no god".

 

This "trend" IS TOWARD getting a kid killed and I bet someone will then justify it as god's will, when parent's will didn't blocked the dumb kid from going there in the first place.

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This is why it is inappropriate to support any of these ventures in any way.

 

Let the kids sail round the world if they want to.... but deny them publicity and the chance for their parents and sponsors to make a few bucks by them doing so.

 

I have always thought it to be purely colonial to tell others what is appropriate. This shit is interesting to people whether you think it should be or not. If they succeed at a young age at something that is not easy, they get publicity. If they fail quietly, they get little. If they die, they get a ton and their parents will be publicly humiliated and held up to scorn forever, never mind the pain they suffer for contributing to the loss of their kid.

 

The mainstream media doesn't understand how the records work, so they get suckered into the whole "youngest 'round" thing, but sailors should know that it is a bullshit record, and try to educate nonsailors whenever possible.

 

No Clean its what media do all the time.... they tell people what they believe is appropriate.

As a sailor I believe that youngest around records are inappropriate, and I will continue to say so in as many ways as possible, and I will continue to advise others to avoid supporting any such effort.

 

Lots of shit is interesting to people, in England for many centuries the most interesting forms of public entertainment were hangings and beheadings, I don't see anything inappropriate about saying that people shouldn't be allowed to watch the execution of criminals for entertainment. There are many examples of things that we know people find interesting, that we should and do prevent people from taking an interest in. I'm sure you will have no trouble drawing up a list of things which 'the public' is interested in, and which they would pay to watch but which are against US laws.

 

I believe that 'youngest around' records are not just BS,,, but that they are fundamentally wrong, and we should be actively discouraging them, I believe that as someone who works in sailing media, and who understands the issues involved in such records you have a responsibility to help educate other media sources as to why these types of record are inappropriate.

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This "youngest" attempt would never have been possible, of course, without lots of expensive technology on board...the technology available today is greatly superior to previous eras. Get rid of the satellite phone, GPS, and weather routing services, and boat advances, and let her try. My guess is that she and her parents would back away from the challenge under those conditions.

 

Watson and Sunderland are due respect for leaving the dock and getting underway --not to mention just having the big vision in the first place to want to test themselves ocean sailing, as compared to the much narrower let's-go-shopping-at-the-mall ambitions of many of their 16 year old contemporaries. But the "youngest" record is ridiculous. Somehow, in the wake of the devastation in Haiti, I'd like to see ambitious and motivated 16 year old kids go for less narcissistic records, something more meaningful, like the most hungry people fed by a 16 year old. But I digress.

 

 

The mainstream media doesn't understand how the records work, so they get suckered into the whole "youngest 'round" thing, but sailors should know that it is a bullshit record, and try to educate nonsailors whenever possible.

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Welcome Mr. B. Solo

 

OK, somebody has to welcome this guy in the traditional SA way...

 

(Not me!)

 

 

Hey, Alan. Welcome to SA.

 

(what? that was not what you had in mind?)

 

What is this, Sailing Ass-kiss?

 

Mr. Solo, you need to STFU and show us a picture of your GF's/wife's tits.

 

romaine

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ps: I think your comments put to rest any debate about the suitability of the boat.

 

 

 

r

 

 

pps: I have three children all well past sixteen years old now who if when they were that age had had the motivation to do what this girl is doing I would have been happy and proud and certainly would not have objected because it was too risky. Should good luck actually exist I wish it for her.

 

r

 

 

 

pps: I always think of Tania Aebi when people start talking about lack of experience, questionable equipment and poor preparation.

 

r

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you have a responsibility to help educate other media sources as to why these types of record are inappropriate.

We have called these records stupid and inane on the front page, which is about where our duty ends. Once at sea, we will tell the story about the people as accurately as possible so long as it remains interesting to us. We'll always call out the idiotic attempts and the stupid people who undertake them, but we will rarely go as far as to say someone "should" or "shouldn't" do something - we are not their parents and it is entirely someone's own choice whether to do something like this. The same standards that govern child welfare laws should also govern a situation like this, and it would be interesting to learn whether there had been any contact with Child Protective Services in the county/state that the Sunderlands live to see what went down, if anything.

 

And I'd love to watch some public execution, but here in the land of the free, that's not allowed. Maybe that's why capital punishment is still legal in much of the US - because the public can't see how nasty it is.

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I have to agree with Dawg on this one. I was in Ensenada when she received the boat, from afar it does not look like she has what it takes? Personally, I wish her the best. I also think her dad should pay for rescue service when they come.

 

My issue is with Abby. If I was going to sail around the world I would at leas attempt the single handed or double handed race to Hawaii first. Really what significant solo sailing has she done to prep for this trip. It's not the wind or the boat I worry about, It is Abby and the Sea State that I worry about.

 

Also, Why is there not an official starting and ending point for these records. Seems odd to give someone the title of youngest to sail around when there is no official track. Seems that there should be some crossing of the equator.

 

The Aussie chick has it pretty easy compared to Abby.

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Like I mentioned in her other thread last night, Channel 11 news gave her a couple of minutes of air time at the beginning of the hour. She struck me as being veeeery young. And 2 years younger than The Nursetta. As a semi-paranoid parent, I'd think I'd be acting like a semi-paranoid parent if'n she was mine. But our family wishes her all the luck in the world and hope she pulls this off with nary a scratch.

 

Sail safe, Abby........

 

 

Nursetta? I didn't think you had copped to this new sock puppet yet?

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THIS is the end destination of all "youngest to do X" records:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Dubroff

Yep, and as you know, the guy who had the stick in his hands was a professional pilot when they all died. And it was all a result of some media commitment schedule. Stupid is as stupid does.

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well, i wanted to know why a wind vane isn't fitted.

 

We were thinking of mounting a wind vane to the stern, but a friend of ours though it a bad idea, the amount of load put on the vane when the boat is power up would have caused it to break or sheer off the boat completely.

 

thanks for addressing my question.

obviously, a proper mount would need to be fabricated.

that doesn't seem a very difficult modification to me; the loads on a vane are actually quite slight imo and its been stated the helm is light as a feather.

so still wondering why.

must have been an influential friend?

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In racing mode, the vane would have been a substantial amount of weight to strap to the back of the boat. In this specific situation, where they are under no burden to squeeze every ounce of speed out of the boat, a Vane could have been a good idea. I have no idea if the engineering could be made to work.

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1) so media exposure is the key value here

 

No, the key value is letting people make their own fucking decisions instead of advocating more bullshit nannying of people in the name of saving lives that aren't asking to be saved. The US and most countries have child labor laws; if she is indeed "being sent" like you claim, the state's proper channel to stop it is via their department of child welfare or whatever. If you actually give a crap, bitch to them, not to us.

 

 

I'm bitching about you. Have you so self-identified with the community here so that you are "us" ?

 

 

 

 

"why should anyone who doesn't know them care if a kid gets killed sailing around the world?" Again, what kind of lawyer would write that?

At the risk of pointing out extremely obvious shit, lawyers are neither policemen nor legislators. I think you have the roles a bit confused here. A lawyer is generally the person you pay to fight for what you think the law says, not the person who decides what the law really is. The lawyer is the one that can argue any side of the issue.

 

A lawyer is supposed to have a highly developed sense of justice, proportion, and ethics - regardless of the side of an argument they are on.

 

 

 

I dont know murder and rape victims either- so why should there be laws against that shit ? I dont know people in Haiti, so why donate ? WTF kind of logic is that ? Why not send a 9 year old into the southern ocean- it would generate a LOT of press ?

 

You also seem unable to distinguish between people doing something of their own free will, and people who are injured or killed due to the actions of others or of disasters. If you really need to be explained the difference between a murder victim and a sailor who chooses to sail around the world and possibly gets hurt, you should probably be in some kind of facility for those of diminished mental capacity.

 

Hey Jack-hoff, the point is that a 16 year-old girl does not have the "free will" to make her own life or death decisions, espeically optional ones in pursuit of "media exposure". The actions of "others" in this case are that of her dad and cheerleaders like you - so ill ask again, why not send a 9 year old to the Southern Ocean ?

 

Even the Dutch government, which is far more intrusive into personal lives than ours, is out of the Laura Dekker situation after May of 2010, and that 13 year old will probably go solo sailing immediately afterward. But you actually seem to think that the US government should prevent people from traveling at age 15 or 16. Or is it just traveling on boats? Or would you prefer if a state or federal agency examined all trips by all minors and only allowed them to go if they met with their approval?

 

Yes, I would prefer that the government examine all trips to the southern ocean captained by 16 year olds.

 

You have had too much unchecked rhetorical power here because its obviously gone to your head. If this girl gets sideways and turns up dead, you are going to read like some kind of ass on these posts.

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THIS is the end destination of all "youngest to do X" records:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Dubroff

 

In this case I tend to agree. Watching the video it would have given me a better feeling if she was doing more single-handing of the boat by herself. Not really sure what her skill level is.

 

The important question I want to ask - Who is truly behind this? This reminds me of the "parents pushed them into it" scenario. Parents using their kids for gain, glory or attention.

 

We all know the list - balloon (sorta) boy, Jon Bennet Ramsey, Jessica Dubroff - in all cases the parents pushed the kid into the activity, not the other way around. The video says something a little different ("I've been wanting to do this since I was thirteen.") -- but I think the truth is something a little different.

 

That said, shes on the way, south of Ensenada now and all we can do is hope for the best. The sh*t will really hit the fan if she has any equipment failures, I can't imagine her understanding how to jury rig something or fix things on the fly. Not a clue what her off shore skill set and experience is like, so lots of unknowns there as well.

 

Godspeed Abby!

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I'm bitching about you. Have you so self-identified with the community here so that you are "us" ?

Of course I have - this is my full-time job.

 

 

A lawyer is supposed to have a highly developed sense of justice, proportion, and ethics - regardless of the side of an argument they are on.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Now THAT is either funny or really, really sad. And you are either 8 years old or 88.

 

Hey Jack-hoff, the point is that a 16 year-old girl does not have the "free will" to make her own life or death decisions, espeically optional ones in pursuit of "media exposure". The actions of "others" in this case are that of her dad and cheerleaders like you - so ill ask again, why not send a 9 year old to the Southern Ocean ?

Maybe, but the government would say that she has quite a bit of free will to enter into contracts and make her own life-or-death decisions. Not 100%, but at 16, she is actually considered to be an adult for various purposes. For instance, she can drive. She can travel to Europe or Africa if she wanted to. She can have sex - hell, she can marry in most states.

 

 

Yes, I would prefer that the government examine all trips to the southern ocean captained by 16 year olds.

How about balloon trips in a field? How about rock climbing? Skiing? Mountain biking? Motor boating? Backpacking? You're a nannyist - something abhorrent to me. But if you're going to be a nannyist, you should probably make sure you know where your government overseeing starts and ends, and who actually makes the decisions in which level of government. Personally, I can't think of anything that would be more ridiculous than for a government to decide what kinds of trips a 16 year old is allowed to take.

 

If this girl gets sideways and turns up dead, you are going to read like some kind of ass on these posts.

I don't particularly care if I "read like some kind of ass" - that's part of my job description. And frankly, I don't give a flying fuck if some kid dies in the Southern Ocean having assessed the risks. She herself said in that video, "There's a real chance that I could die out there," and who am I to try to stop someone from dying if they want to risk it?

 

I don't know who appointed you the keeper of the children, but I suppose you should lobby your government if you feel strongly enough about it. Have you done that yet?

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Abby's boat was designed and built for the Around Alone 2002 - 2003 yacht race in which I sailed her around the world.....slowly !! In many ways this boat is solid as a rock and built to an old IMOCA Class 50 ( yes Class 50 ) rule which includes 110% bouyancy, inverted instability rules, 5 water tight compartments blah blah. There is kevlar in the entire hull as well as 3 large sections filled with foam.

 

Downwind in 60kts she is just fine ( my highest velocity was just over 60 ) Upwind she is useless and requires great care. So Abby if one of your friends or family reads this, be VERY conservative of lee shores and expect to be able to at best attain a close reach of 80 degrees AWA.

 

Any other questions on the boat ??

 

I know that some comment by one of the Sunderlands with respect to the boat's poor windward capabilities was made on their to trip to Fort Lauderdale. I don't know if they were informed in advance of the purchase or left to discover it themselves.

 

Too my inexperienced eye the boat lacks sufficient lateral area. Perhaps the trim tab on the keel was to compensate for this.

 

I owned one boat that under certain conditions when footing would walk to windward which mooted the AWA. Since this phenomenon occurred on either tack, I believed that the keel was true fore and aft.

 

 

Your inexperienced eye is only problematic as far as reading is concerned. :) If you'd have read the thread, you'd have noticed two posts from previous owners who've sailed the boat extensively.

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Abby's boat was designed and built for the Around Alone 2002 - 2003 yacht race in which I sailed her around the world.....slowly !! In many ways this boat is solid as a rock and built to an old IMOCA Class 50 ( yes Class 50 ) rule which includes 110% bouyancy, inverted instability rules, 5 water tight compartments blah blah. There is kevlar in the entire hull as well as 3 large sections filled with foam.

 

Downwind in 60kts she is just fine ( my highest velocity was just over 60 ) Upwind she is useless and requires great care. So Abby if one of your friends or family reads this, be VERY conservative of lee shores and expect to be able to at best attain a close reach of 80 degrees AWA.

 

Any other questions on the boat ??

 

Hey dude, welcome to the shit fight, bad move this place is like a hairy magnet :lol::lol:

 

There are a few rules around here.

Newbies must supply a picture of the girl friends tits (sorry becky)...and the Fuck off Noob.

 

welcome aboard and I hope Abby does your boat proud............not that I would send my Monica off in a trip like that.

We have bloody Auzzie day here today....bah-humbug for us kiwis abroad.

cheers

Jon

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Not 100%, but at 16, she is actually considered to be an adult for various purposes. For instance, she can drive. She can travel to Europe or Africa if she wanted to. She can have sex - hell, she can marry in most states.

 

California (her state) it's still 18 for consent. I don't carry the card (anymore), but to think a 16yo is an adult a