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aloha27

Tall Ship SV "Condordia" sinks off Brazil. All safe.

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"moderate to rough waves, clear skies"

 

There has to be something more to this story.

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hope they learned a lesson :o

 

 

 

 

 

Looked like a grand o'll ride, glad all are safe

 

wonder just how sunk it is, if refloat possible etc.

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hope they learned a lesson :o

C'mon, a little respect, please. The ship was full of 40-50 high school kids from around the world who, according to a news story I read, spent 18 hours in life rafts, awaiting rescue a couple of hundreds kms. off the Brazilian coast. That must have been scary shit for those kids.

 

According to the school that runs the program, students participating in the class afloat program practice emergency procedures...looks like that may have paid off.

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hope they learned a lesson :o

C'mon, a little respect, please. The ship was full of 40-50 high school kids from around the world who, according to a news story I read, spent 18 hours in life rafts, awaiting rescue a couple of hundreds kms. off the Brazilian coast. That must have been scary shit for those kids.

 

According to the school that runs the program, students participating in the class afloat program practice emergency procedures...looks like that may have paid off.

 

 

it was supposed to be a funny as it was a school class

 

didn't use :lol: as the situation is sad

 

som timaz it's hard to post properly for SA B)

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Blame Canada, It's not even a real country anyway

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Interesting piece being an alum of the ship. She lost her captain, who had managed her build, and sailed on her for her entire life, last summer to cancer. That ship is more stout then any i have been on in my entire life. We were in a 100+ knot squal and went over to 52 degrees of heel, lost steerage and started taking in water through the deckhouse hatches they were unable to close in time. She had been around cape horn 3 times, and believe me she was dipping the coarse every 5 minutes. There needs to be an explanation since there is a community here that feels as though we have lost a mother. While there are many hypotheses mine is that they were cruising along at 14-15 kts, in that nice big swell and managed to hit a submerged container or two, shredding the waterline below the hull. This would allow for plenty of time to get people off, yet damage bad enough that the ship would be unable to stay afloat without auxiliary pumps and further salvage equipment.

On the training front, before every semester the students go through a 2 day course that covers everything. Then atleast every 10 days there is a surprise drill, whether it be man overboard, fire, or abandon ship. Not only are the professional sailors on these boats amazing seamen, but they push every student to excel at these maneuvers so they are done as efficiently as possible. They had lost one student before and were unwilling to have to ever make that call again.

So all you sailors who have sailed the seas on a square rigger, or thought how majestic they were raise a glass to the girl and give her a hearty cheer, as i will.

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As The Former Bosun Of the Concordia i am hard pressed to believe that the ship sank due to weather..... i spent two years of my life living on board her and know that ship better then most and i can tell you that its must have been neptune himself tipping her over. i have made it through 3 hurricanes and what i only can describe as a white squall ( a short squall which was basically a wall of water in the south pacific ) she was unbelievably stable and strong. now why this happened is beyond me. i only hope that the powers that be dont try and cover this up to avoid a law suit. as they did with the Laura Gainey Tragedy

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Thanks for sharing the experiences. She sounds like she was a good ship.

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Neighbor's kid was on the boat. Students are in Rio - parent's are working visas/flights.

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Interesting piece being an alum of the ship. She lost her captain, who had managed her build, and sailed on her for her entire life, last summer to cancer. That ship is more stout then any i have been on in my entire life. We were in a 100+ knot squal and went over to 52 degrees of heel, lost steerage and started taking in water through the deckhouse hatches they were unable to close in time. She had been around cape horn 3 times, and believe me she was dipping the coarse every 5 minutes. There needs to be an explanation since there is a community here that feels as though we have lost a mother. While there are many hypotheses mine is that they were cruising along at 14-15 kts, in that nice big swell and managed to hit a submerged container or two, shredding the waterline below the hull. This would allow for plenty of time to get people off, yet damage bad enough that the ship would be unable to stay afloat without auxiliary pumps and further salvage equipment.

On the training front, before every semester the students go through a 2 day course that covers everything. Then atleast every 10 days there is a surprise drill, whether it be man overboard, fire, or abandon ship. Not only are the professional sailors on these boats amazing seamen, but they push every student to excel at these maneuvers so they are done as efficiently as possible. They had lost one student before and were unwilling to have to ever make that call again.

So all you sailors who have sailed the seas on a square rigger, or thought how majestic they were raise a glass to the girl and give her a hearty cheer, as i will.

 

What was the name of the captain? I met him in Muskegon a few years back when the boat still only had one yard. Also saw it in Copenhagen in 2008.

 

That thing was a beast. I can't imagine hitting a container would hole it, a container would surely lose the battle with the Concordia. Quite a shame.

 

Glad everyone is OK.

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As The Former Bosun Of the Concordia i am hard pressed to believe that the ship sank due to weather..... i spent two years of my life living on board her and know that ship better then most and i can tell you that its must have been neptune himself tipping her over. i have made it through 3 hurricanes and what i only can describe as a white squall ( a short squall which was basically a wall of water in the south pacific ) she was unbelievably stable and strong. now why this happened is beyond me. i only hope that the powers that be dont try and cover this up to avoid a law suit. as they did with the Laura Gainey Tragedy

 

OK, everyone act like this isn't a newbie so we don't have to welcome him in the SA way...

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an old friend is a teacher on board. glad everyone is safe. now i want to know what on earth could have sunk her.

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Its good to see an example of good training and evac drills resulting in a good outcome in a very bad situation. Bloody lucky nobody lost a life when something like this happens,

Good preparation by those responsible.

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The story posted clearly states the boat capsized in strong winds and tall ships, like multihulls, dont self right.Glad to see they saved everyone.

Steve.

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Damn that's a sad loss. Glad everyone is safe.

 

We were invited aboard when she came through here a few years back. Met the captain and crew, and the teachers and kids who were doing their schooling on board - a wonderful bunch of young adults.

 

Concordia College (IIRC) was an incredibly good program, very worthwhile and very well run. I hope they can get another ship to keep the program running.

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Glad everyone is safe. I hope they can build another boat, what a great program. My oldest son, who is a keen sailor, will be just the right age in about 4 years. If he wanted to go and a program was available, I'd sign him up in a minute.

 

One thing I wonder - why do they use square-riggers for this type of operation? Wouldn't a large schooner or ketch be better and safer? One can imagine sailing along downwind with quite a bit of canvas quite safely, then you hit a transition zone and quickly get breeze from the side. No way to get rid of all that canvas in a hurry, so over she goes on her beam ends just because of the tophamper.

 

On a schooner or ketch you can just ease the sheets.

 

Just wondering...

 

dash

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I cant believe this is he same tall ship Bobs daughter was washed over board from.... :o

 

There must be more to this story, this proven tall ship has been through serious weather according to posts above, so she must have been damaged some how...

Glad all are safe........ we are very lucky today....... very lucky....

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Glad everyone is safe. I hope they can build another boat, what a great program. My oldest son, who is a keen sailor, will be just the right age in about 4 years. If he wanted to go and a program was available, I'd sign him up in a minute.

 

One thing I wonder - why do they use square-riggers for this type of operation? Wouldn't a large schooner or ketch be better and safer? One can imagine sailing along downwind with quite a bit of canvas quite safely, then you hit a transition zone and quickly get breeze from the side. No way to get rid of all that canvas in a hurry, so over she goes on her beam ends just because of the tophamper.

 

On a schooner or ketch you can just ease the sheets.

 

Just wondering...

 

dash

 

Square riggers are used as there is more involvement of the trainees in sailing the vessels, they do not require spinakers to make good speed down wind and offer more challenges to the trainees than most other rigs. There are a lot of ketchs and schooners but they are generally smaller than vessels like Concordia.

 

if you are sailing downwind and hit a transition zone and get breeze from the side / beam the squares will not be in the optimum angle for catching all that wind, one of the biggest risks is being badly caught aback and the potential risk of the rig coming down.

 

Also most of the square riggers I have worked on have an angle of vanishing stability (last square rigger I served on was 110deg as long as hatches are closed) much greater than vessels in the offshore industry as well as the large passenger ships not to metion container ships and bulk carriers.

 

Getting rid of the canvas aloft, we could shed all the squares with six crew on a 145ft vessel with 4 squares in less than 3min, starting at the top, part of our hand over on night watch was to have all hands aware of how to hand the uppermost sails - we did it by handing the sails then setting them again every night watch when under sail.

 

One thing I heard earlier was that she got hit by a very large wave that rolled her over, another square rigger last year got hit by a large wave that smashed the bulwarks and the deck house - that vessel is over 50 years old and it was the first time she had ever suffered damage of that level - from what I heard about that one was that the wave was exceptional with regards to what the vessel had been sailing in.

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The tall ship "Condordia" foundered off the coast of Brazil. All 63 aboard rescued.

 

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTV...=TorontoNewHome

 

 

It's about time!!

They should all sink!

 

 

WTF kinda talk is THAT? You're happy that a magnificent vessel that introduced MANY young minds to a love of the sea is gone?

 

You are a tool.

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I cant believe this is he same tall ship Bobs daughter was washed over board from.... :o

 

There must be more to this story, this proven tall ship has been through serious weather according to posts above, so she must have been damaged some how...

Glad all are safe........ we are very lucky today....... very lucky....

 

 

I wasn't.......that was the Picton Castle

 

Talked alot with a dear friend yesterday morning BEFORE they knew all were safe - his daughter was on board. His wife took the call from the school first, then he got on the phone and asked some good questions like how many rafts, found, were they all together, sea state when found etc.....He then said he has "a really good feeling" things were looking good for a successful outcome. He heard an hour later they were all accounted for.

 

It is a miracle and a real tribute to the seamanship of all aboard that all 64 people got off ok.

 

PN

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i'll be honest this one scared the shit out of me, Concordia was built like a brick shithouse, what scared me though was that a fried of mine is the 2nd mate and finished his rotation on Concordia 3 weeks ago, this one has the the traditional sail vessel here at Maine maritime pretty hard, she was beautiful boat and a dream job for many in the small vessel program. bottom line though is that everyone is safe.

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As The Former Bosun Of the Concordia i am hard pressed to believe that the ship sank due to weather..... i spent two years of my life living on board her and know that ship better then most and i can tell you that its must have been neptune himself tipping her over. i have made it through 3 hurricanes and what i only can describe as a white squall ( a short squall which was basically a wall of water in the south pacific ) she was unbelievably stable and strong. now why this happened is beyond me. i only hope that the powers that be dont try and cover this up to avoid a law suit. as they did with the Laura Gainey Tragedy

 

the e-mail that went around the academy alerting people mentioned a knockdown and a failure of some kind, possibly a mast, with the way she was built unless they hit something solid then my guess would be a mast or possibly a hatch failure of some kind,

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PN has it correct. Captain said they got hit by two microbursts. Got laid on beam ends once then a second time even harder. Started breaking out portlights and the water cascaded in rendering the radios useless. Fortunately they had an auto eject 406 EPIRB that got the rescue rolling. 40 hours later (!) they started saw a plane circle them and the the getting ships started coming on.

 

Must have been a nightmare for the kids.

 

Glad everything on the rescue end worked as advertised.

 

Linky: http://www.sacbee.com/830/story/2551520.html

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In a news conference in Rio the Captain just confirmed that the ship sank at noon on Wednesday, not at 7am Thursday, making their ordeal in the liferafts closer to 40 hrs rather than the 18 as first thought.

 

An absolute miracle for these kids, totally incredible

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agreed. hope the kids come back out to sea, or at least get out and race in local fleets.

kudos to officers and full-time crew.

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There was a kiwi girl on there, father is quoted as saying she was scared before going aboard because it was going to be like 1 year.

Then she was inside & got dumped out of bed onto the side of the hull when it went over on its side & had to climb out while the ship was sinking + 40hrs in a liferaft to be rescued.

The father was like 'we'll make it up for her, she can go on another ship' :ph34r:

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There was a kiwi girl on there, father is quoted as saying she was scared before going aboard because it was going to be like 1 year.

Then she was inside & got dumped out of bed onto the side of the hull when it went over on its side & had to climb out while the ship was sinking + 40hrs in a liferaft to be rescued.

The father was like 'we'll make it up for her, she can go on another ship' :ph34r:

 

+1 parenting

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As noted previously, when boats are likely to heel, closing openings is good policy, as is reducing sail. Surprised the mate needed to be so instructed.

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http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/index.asp

Detailed report. Interesting that they discount the microburst as the cause.

 

The basic findings on the cause was the officer in command did nothing as the wind increased and the boat stated to heel. When he did try to bear off it was to late, water was already making its way down below.

 

(Yes there we other plenty of other things that were part of the problem, such as open hatches, not reducing sail as the squals started comming but in the end if the guy in charge just took action when the shit started to hit the fan the boat would probably not have gone down. Maybe that is to much to ask.)

 

 

 

 

The Canadian Transportation Safety Board findings:

http://www.thechroni...nt/9022179.html

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http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/index.asp

Detailed report. Interesting that they discount the microburst as the cause.

 

The basic findings on the cause was the officer in command did nothing as the wind increased and the boat stated to heel. When he did try to bear off it was to late, water was already making its way down below.

 

(Yes there we other plenty of other things that were part of the problem, such as open hatches, not reducing sail as the squals started comming but in the end if the guy in charge just took action when the shit started to hit the fan the boat would probably not have gone down. Maybe that is to much to ask.)

 

 

 

 

The Canadian Transportation Safety Board findings:

http://www.thechroni...nt/9022179.html

 

How many people can brag about fearlessly shooting a squall under Full-Sail w everything open

 

it's an elite club of very few

 

probably 20 here will brag about that being only the start of where the FUN begins (likely the same 1 or 2 sock/posers) ;)

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THE OFFICER OF THE WATCH simply didn’t know enough to avoid a capsize. That’s the conclusion of an investigation by the Transportation Safety Board of Canada into the loss of the 189-foot barquentine Concordia off the coast of Brazil last February.

 

The investigation report says: “Despite changes in the wind conditions in the 60 to 75 minutes preceding the occurrence, and the fact that several squalls were being tracked, both visually and on the radar, the second officer did not perceive any threat to the vessel.

 

“As the apparent wind speed increased with the onset of the squall, the vessel’s heel angle reached roughly 23 degrees for approximately two to three minutes without mitigating action being taken.

 

“The forward and aft deckhouses had not been fully secured weathertight and, therefore, the vessel’s righting ability at large angles was reduced and protection against the ingress of water was compromised. As a result, downflooding progressed until the vessel lost all stability and capsized.”

 

The report added that while the second officer had the proper Canadian certification, his training “didn’t include sufficient information about stability guidance.”

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It sure looks like the Concordia was poorly designed for offshore passages. She started taking water in a 60 degree knockdown through hatches left open. If my boat took water through the hatches in a 60 degree knockdown, she would have sunk long ago. Most sailboats experience knockdowns over 90 degrees with no problem, just embarrassment.

 

If the ship was that unsafe, there should have been a "close all side hatches and vents while under sail" requirement. Without that protocol, it wasn't a matter of if, it was just a matter of when she would get knocked down with the hatches open.

 

JMHO

 

dash

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Simply incredible.

http://www.tsb.gc.ca...03/m10f0003.asp

 

 

1.21.1.1 Hull and Deckhouse Openings

The investigation determined that there were numerous openings in the weather deck and deckhouses that were not secured at the time of the occurrence and thus would have served as points of entry for seawater when immersed (see Photo 3 Photo 1). The angles of immersion of some of these openings were calculated as follows:

 

Table 3. Hull and Deckhouse Openings

Description Angle of Immersion

Note: Immersion of these openings would lead to downflooding of the hull.

Galley Door (forward deckhouse, port side) 56.5°

Mess Door (forward deckhouse, port side) 58.4°

Sanitary Exhaust Vent (forward deckhouse, port side) 65.0°

Radio Room Window (aft deckhouse, port side) 68.6°

Wheelhouse Door (aft deckhouse, port side)74.2°

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Stability with the deckhouse doors open, versus closed:

 

m10f0003_figure_5.jpg

 

With the doors open, apparently 37 knots at most, possibly less, was all that could be withstood:

 

m10f0003_figure_6.jpg

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