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Designers' meeting in VLC

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Just up on ValenciaSailing , questions invited.

 

But why does it say "The meeting itself is, obviously, off limits to the press .." (I suppose general public would then be shot on sight) ?? mad.gif What about the much-claimed new spirit of openness and so on?

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Just up on ValenciaSailing , questions invited.

 

But why does it say "The meeting itself is, obviously, off limits to the press .." (I suppose general public would then be shot on sight) ?? mad.gif What about the much-claimed new spirit of openness and so on?

 

Maybe it is closed-room so people can be more forthright, than in front of the press and/or the public; or maybe the working-group format does not lend itself well in other ways? Hell if I know.

 

But if you are curious because you have questions then Pierre is offering a nice opportunity there. Ask some, perhaps he can get a designer or two to describe what got discussed?

 

If they refuse to answer some things because of an NDA, then yes, it might be interesting to know the reasons why. He doesn't say why he assumes it is 'obvious' that it will be closed-door."The meeting itself is, obviously, off limits to the press but there will be an opportunity to talk to, at least, some of the participants."

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But why does it say "The meeting itself is, obviously, off limits to the press ...

Because it is a working meeting.

 

Because being observed while working changes the dynamics of the situation. It is something like Heisenberg's principle of uncertainty, which implies that you cannot observe a quantum event without affecting its state. Some animal behaviorists spend weeks or months conditioning animals to their presence so that, if all goes well, the animal will "act naturally" even in the presence of the observer; it's hard to tell how successful this is, since it's hard to get observations without an observer to compare to observations made with an observer.

 

In a closed room, you are only talking to the people with whom you are meeting face-to-face.

 

In a televised room, you are talking to people who are not work partners. The participants become performers.

 

What matters to me is the set of decisions that come out of the room--not the paths taken to reach those decisions.

 

I don't see closed meetings as a violation of the policy of greater openness. The people who have money to play the game know what's happening and have a chance to provide input. Seems to me that that is what counts. The players want--and deserve--a fair playing field. As an added benefit, that also makes things more fun for us spectators.

 

Marty

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Because being observed while working changes the dynamics of the situation. It is something like Heisenberg's principle of uncertainty, which implies that you cannot observe a quantum event without affecting its state.

 

 

Heisenberg's principle - wow!

 

I'm just glad my former work associates weren't nearly as erudite .. biggrin.gif

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Just up on ValenciaSailing , questions invited.

 

But why does it say "The meeting itself is, obviously, off limits to the press .." (I suppose general public would then be shot on sight) ?? mad.gif What about the much-claimed new spirit of openness and so on?

 

Because the customers are the focus..not everyone. looking for initial discussion with teams. it would seem at some point in time it would be useful to get other inputs/perspectives such as how media friendly the designs/venues would be.

Cheers

bob

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In a closed room, you are only talking to the people with whom you are meeting face-to-face.

 

 

I don't see closed meetings as a violation of the policy of greater openness. The people who have money to play the game know what's happening and have a chance to provide input. Seems to me that that is what counts. The players want--and deserve--a fair playing field. As an added benefit, that also makes things more fun for us spectators.

 

Marty

 

if you would have mentioned something even remotely similar some months up to a couple of years ago in respect of the previous grudge match you would have been crucified overhere, and now you'll be applauded.

What's the difference ? ah yes, the cup is "where it belongs" so it's alright for the people who damned it with all the voice they could muster, it's alright to pull the same stunts that were damned, demonished and crucified.

 

But even without wanting to go clever on this, Heisenberg no less, ye gods biggrin.gif , some namedropping that is, and to offset any thought of sour grapes, seen from a business viewpoint, it's simply and eminently advisable to have those basic discussions behind closed doors. And now that it's officialised that it's O.K. to treat the AC as a business ... better do it that way.

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IMHO there is a world of difference between a meeting that is itself is closed to the press and openly talking to the press AFTER the meeting and a requirement to sign an NDA before being allowed to attend a meeting and promising you won't say ANYTHING about what happened in the meeting.

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IMHO there is a world of difference between a meeting that is itself is closed to the press and openly talking to the press AFTER the meeting and a requirement to sign an NDA before being allowed to attend a meeting and promising you won't say ANYTHING about what happened in the meeting.

 

Calling it a world of difference is putting it very well. As was said again, when the meeting itself is being observed, the people are no longer have a meeting but playing roles to the wider audience.

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IMHO there is a world of difference between a meeting that is itself is closed to the press and openly talking to the press AFTER the meeting and a requirement to sign an NDA before being allowed to attend a meeting and promising you won't say ANYTHING about what happened in the meeting.

 

I remember in this last cycle how ML's Alessandra P. flew to Geneva, then left instead of signing the NDA she was given as condition for entering the meeting. I don't think that particular one was a designers meeting (think those were all held in Valencia) but it's reasonable to suggest hippocracy if ML is now a part of a similar arrangement, where nobody can talk about what they talked about under threat of, well whatever. Hopefully that has changed.

 

Another difference here is how nobody besides presumably ML is actually signed on to anything yet. That means it is open to a relatively broad audience of aspiring or just interested teams; they are not already paid entrants and signators to what all else went along with that last time. If they get this Protocol out by late August and the Design Rule out by late September, then RC said it will be the first time in history that everyone will be able to read those before deciding if to challenge. I hope that the 'everybody' who can read it will include us; and it stands to reason that it will be published - why not?

 

Would I like to go voice my opinion about monos and multis? Sure, who wouldn't, we discuss the various pros and cons here all the time. Something else RC said was interesting on that subject too, that they would actually test various boat options for performance on the key attributes he mentioned: speed, excitement, media friendliness, and.. whatever that other thing was. And so even if they don't come out tomorrow and tell us they have narrowed any concepts down yet, then we could still learn what they are keen to look at, by what boats they choose to test out. Hopefully they don't keep that part to themselves, I think they should play it up - it's a really cool idea.

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Another difference here is how nobody besides presumably ML is actually signed on to anything yet. That means it is open to a relatively broad audience of aspiring or just interested teams; they are not already paid entrants and signators to what all else went along with that last time. If they get this Protocol out by late August and the Design Rule out by late September, then RC said it will be the first time in history that everyone will be able to read those before deciding if to challenge. I hope that the 'everybody' who can read it will include us; and it stands to reason that it will be published - why not?

 

Would I like to go voice my opinion about monos and multis? Sure, who wouldn't, we discuss the various pros and cons here all the time. Something else RC said was interesting on that subject too, that they would actually test various boat options for performance on the key attributes he mentioned: speed, excitement, media friendliness, and.. whatever that other thing was. And so even if they don't come out tomorrow and tell us they have narrowed any concepts down yet, then we could still learn what they are keen to look at, by what boats they choose to test out. Hopefully they don't keep that part to themselves, I think they should play it up - it's a really cool idea.

 

I'm thinking this is an initial test/presentation of concepts to begin the discussion. I wonder if it is multihull and mono and whether they are hearing each other concepts

bob

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IMHO there is a world of difference between a meeting that is itself is closed to the press and openly talking to the press AFTER the meeting and a requirement to sign an NDA before being allowed to attend a meeting and promising you won't say ANYTHING about what happened in the meeting.

 

An NDA would be the last straw, for the time being our friend Pierre O. is just hoping to glean some info. Me, I'm siding with Albatros: plus ça change ..

Or, seeing how he mentions Realpolitik, I'm reminded of something Henry Kissinger wrote:

"Mexico was probably astonished to learn that the president of the country which had seized a third of its territory .... was now presenting the Monroe Doctrine as a guarantee for the territorial integrity of sister nations and as a classic example of international cooperation .."

(just trying to be as kulturny as Marty ph34r.gif )

 

And: SR, "hippocracy" is copyrighted by Simon biggrin.gif

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And: SR, "hippocracy" is copyrighted by Simon biggrin.gif

Dammit, I though that looked wrong... Just goes to show how Simon is polluting everyone's brains around here biggrin.gif

 

I see that Pierre got some questions in his comments feedback, perhaps we will get some generalities out of it.

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Was browsing around for various opinions and bumped into this blast from the past. Excerpt from in August '07:

 

--

 

Valencia Sailing: Moving to the future of the world’s oldest sport event, you once said the America’s Cup in Valencia was like watching F1 races on tractors. If you were given a blank check what boat would you design for the America’s Cup since you don’t like these tractors?

 

Juan Kouyoumdjian: If you allow a very free rule where you only define the “engines”, that is the sail plan, then for sure you will end up with a multihull. From a boat design point of view or yacht performance point of view, there is nothing that will get you further than a multihull. There is an argument that multihulls are not dynamic and are difficult to tack. I don’t agree with that because the greatest evolutions of multihulls, particularly in France, were done with offshore racing in mind. They were optimized for single-handed or dual-handed people to cross oceans. They did have a series of inshore races, Grand Prix as they called them, and that was one of the reasons that class failed, because of the discrepancies of what kind of boat you have to design for inshore races against offshore races. In essence you cope with two different boats and unfortunately budgets were not sufficient.

 

My point is that if you dedicate the resources one has in the America’s Cup to make a multihull dedicated to match racing it will not take more than a year to achieve it. From a yacht design point of view, the multihull is the “ultimate racing machine”.

 

Valencia Sailing: Is match racing conceivable in multihulls? Is it as spectacular, particularly the prestart?

 

Juan Kouyoumdjian: There is no problem to match race in such yachts. It could also be as spectacular, not if the America’s Cup takes place next June because people will not have the time to sort things out, but in the longer term it can very well be as spectacular as the current class, or even more. Don’t forget these are races of boats equivalent to Formula 1 and there are no cars in the world that can accelerate as fast, break as fast or turn a corner as fast as an F1 car. So if one pretends to claim that the America’s Cup is the F1 of sailing then its boats have to be the fastest one on the race course.

 

Having said that, even if one thinks of restricting it in monohulls, which is fair enough, there is a lot of room for improvement in order to achieve something much more exciting than Version 5 of the America’s Cup Class.

 

--

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@ SR

 

Thanks for unearthing that - whodda thunk it? I was figuring Juan K. as the customary, insufferable hidalgo - was wrong, clearly. Still, I'd like to see his design for a multi, adopting two of his recent TP52 bows!

 

Somewhat coincidentally, there's a nice video on the FP (flat scream TV) that sort of hints at what might be a viable alternative to strict match racing in the Bay: a "racetrack" course, should really be spectacular

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@ SR

 

Thanks for unearthing that - whodda thunk it? I was figuring Juan K. as the customary, insufferable hidalgo - was wrong, clearly. Still, I'd like to see his design for a multi, adopting two of his recent TP52 bows!

 

Somewhat coincidentally, there's a nice video on the FP (flat scream TV) that sort of hints at what might be a viable alternative to strict match racing in the Bay: a "racetrack" course, should really be spectacular

 

The local multihullers have their own racetrack

 

http://www.sfbama.org/racing/rtindex.html

 

with gps track downloads

http://www.sfbama.org/racing/replay/BAMA%20Race%20Replay.html

 

written up by Kimball (scroll to bottom http://kimballlivingston.com/?p=2830 )

GPS RACING

 

Just opened, the BAMA Racetrack, a scenic 10-nm central Bay course open to all Bay area boats.

 

The premise: Do it any time you want, as many times as you want. Just turn on your GPS receiver, choose any buoy but Alcatraz to start/finish, and sail a lap or several. Then upload your GPX file to BAMA. You will be scored, and you can replay your race against others or yourself in GPS Action Replay. The Racetrack is open from this weekend through Oct 30, and only your best lap will count for the season barn door and corrected honors. This is now an event in the BAMA Cup series.

 

The course:

YRA8-p, Alcatraz-s, Big Harding-p, Blackaller-p, Blossom Rock-p, RA8-p

 

And yes, that’s all local to Northern California, but again. Doesn’t it pose the question, could this work where you sail?

 

 

 

 

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Don’t forget these are races of boats equivalent to Formula 1 and there are no cars in the world that can accelerate as fast, break as fast or turn a corner as fast as an F1 car.

 

I think he got the "break as fast" bit correct. I believe they also have good brakes.

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Yachting : The America Cup Controversy.

 

S1r Thomas L1pton said recently that he should certainly challenge for the America Cup during 1910, the races to take place in 1911. He proposes to challenge under the Universal rule and not under the old rule; therefore, I think that a few words upon the controversy of rules might be interesting.

 

The Americans argue that the Cup was given to the New York Yacht Club in order that the fastest possible type of craft should be built for these races. Therefore, they say, the contest is not to be governed by the existing rule of the New York Yacht Club. Now this is a very nice point, because the deed of gift clearly states that in the event of the Cup being won by a foreign club future races must be sailed under the rules of that same foreign club.

But if future races are to be sailed under the rules of the club which happens to hold the Cup, why should the New York Yacht Club refuse a challenge under its own existing rule—the Universal rule as the Americans call it ?

 

For my part I quite agree with those who wish the Cup to be raced for by the fastest yacht that can be built upon a given waterline; indeed, I should like to see the endless rating rules—mere handicaps upon yachting progress to my mind—done away with, and plain waterline length taken instead. But if the Cup race is to be sailed —in the event of a European club winning it—under our International rule, which certainly does not produce the fastest possible type of yacht, why should the Americans refuse a challenge under their existing rule ?

 

In the two paragraphs above we

 

have the present America Cup controversy in a nutshell; but there is another side of the affair, and I would seriously ask, Are we wise to challenge the Americans under their own rule rather than under the old rule ? If we have failed under a rule with which our designers are—or should be by this time—familiar, how can we expect to win under a rule to which the American designers have built for several years ? Would it not be wiser to challenge under the old rule—the rule with which our designers are familiar ?

 

The Universal rule of the New York Yacht Club is intended— like our own International rule— to encourage a moderate type of yacht, but it must be admitted that the rule is very complicated and it seems doubtful if we have any designer who thoroughly understands the Universal rule. It should be remembered that Mr. Herreshoff, the designer of Reliance, Defender and Vigilant, was one of the men responsible for the Universal rule; therefore, does it not seem likely that this gentleman could build to suit his own rule better than our designers could ?

 

Sir Thomas Lipton thinks that if he could get the New York Yacht Club to accept a challenge under its own rule he would have a fair chance, because a freak yacht could not be used as a defender, but he seems to forget that our designers would be planning out a yacht for a rule with which they had little or no connection. I would suggest, therefore, that Sir Thomas challenge under the old rule, but that he should use every effort to try and get the Americans to change that very unfair rule which forces the British yacht to cross the stormy Atlantic " upon her own bottom.'' This ocean voyage seems to me to be the stumbling-block, although I will say that I believe that a yacht could be built fast enough to win the Cup and cross the Atlantic too. Of course, it is most unfair to impose this rule, and I cannot help thinking that if Sir Thomas Lipton offered to challenge under the old rule, on condition that the ocean passage 1vas not insisted upon, the Americans would accept the challenge.

 

As things stand at present, there can be no doubt that the ocean passage rule gives the Americans a wonderful advantage. As long as we are content to send yachts of about the same power and sail area year after year, the Americans can beat us by turning out their hull a few tons lighter than ours. At the same time, one must admit that most of the British yachts have lacked originality of design ; in fact, they have often been a year behind the American craft. Valkyrie II. was not by any means an " advanced " craft when she was built in 1893; many people expected Mr. Watson to produce a fin yacht of extreme type, but Valkyrie II. proved to be quite moderate in design. She had less power, less sail, and less tonnage than the American Vigilant. Even when we remember that the dimensions of the British craft were known before the building of Vigilant was begun, it must be admitted that Valkyrie II. was far from up-to-date even for her day. The only craft of striking originality were Valkyrie III. and Shamrock II., both designed by the late Mr. Watson. When Valkyrie II. was defeated Mr. Watson was quick to see his mistake, and with his last two challengers he came

 

very near to " lifting " the Cup. It was indeed a cruel blow that robbed Britain of this great designer when in the very prime of life.

 

I have always thought that if we went to extremes, as the Americans have done, we should do better. 1 mean to say, that if we had built an out-and-out " machine," with enormous sail area and of immense power, we might have got so near to the limit of effective power that even the Americans could not have outbuilt us. There may be a limit to the amount of sail that can be carried with advantage, but it does not seem that the limit has been reached yet. Any yacht designer will tell you that a yacht could be built to carry more sail thanReliance upon the same waterline length.

Of course, such a yacht would be a freak, but then Shamrock and Reliance are both freaks. If anyone doubts that enormous sail can be carried with advantage, I would remind them that one of the " sandbaggers " of the American lakes had 1,200 square ft. of sail, upon a waterline length of 21 ft. The writer has a large model, over 6 ft. long, which carries—in proportion—far more sail than Rel1ance.

 

It remains to be seen if such an extreme "machine" would need very light construction, for the strains set up by the vast sail spread would be so great that it would be necessary to build a good, sound hull in order to withstand them. Why not build a good, sound,wooden hull, of immense beam, power, and overhang, and then trust to an enormous sail plan and the momentum imparted to the hull by, say, 150 to 200 tons of lead, which such a hull might need ? Such a yacht should not cost as much as the metal yachts already built.

 

 

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CONT'D

 

RELIANCE. The most " extreme" defender yet constructed under the America Cup Rules.

 

At the time of writing it seems (according to the latest reports) that Sir Thomas Lipton intends to build two yachts of the Universal type, and about 90 ft. upon the water line. With the best of these yachts he intends, according to the reporters, to challenge for the season 1911. Now let us consider his chances of lifting the Cup. To begin with, the Americans will most likely build four or five defenders, and the best of these will oppose the British yacht. These defenders will be built by men who have had years of experience with the Universal rule, but the British yacht must be produced by men to whom the American rule is quite new. Can we hope for very much under such conditions ?

 

I have often wondered whether Sir Thomas Lipton could not challenge and then have his yacht built in Canada. The two Canadian challengers—and I believe many people are unaware that there were Canadian challengers—did not cross the Atlantic. The Countess of Duffevin was beaten by the American schooner Madeline in 1876; and another Canadian yacht, the Atlanta, was defeated by the sloopMischief in 1881. Neither of these yachts crossed the Atlantic; indeed, the A tlanta came from Canada through the canals. Canada is certainly a part of the British Empire, and it is difficult to see how the Americans could object to Sir Thomas Lipton if he challenged through a Canadian yacht club, and had his yacht built in the Dominion. The Canadians are splendid yacht builders, and in the small classes they have beaten the Americans again and again.

 

It is interesting to speculate upon the probable type of craft which would be built if the next series of races should be sailed

 

under the Universal rule (the present rule of the New York Yacht Club). If we take the schooner Ingomar as an example of the new American type we must conclude that the new defenders will have less overhang than Reliance, and that they will have less draught and more displacement than either of the defenders of the last fifteen years. There seems to be some doubt as to what could be done under this rule, for it is so complicated that many of the British experts seem somewhat " at sea." The fin type does not seem to be favoured, and the scow form of bow is taxed; therefore a sea-going type of craft should be produced in place of the semi-scow type as represented by Reliance.

 

In the Cup races of 1901 the large scow form first made its appearance. Perhaps I should say in the trial races of 1901, for theIndependence was not chosen for the actual Cup contest; but one gets into the habit of calling the trial races Cup races, so that this correction is needed. Independence was an out-and-out scow, but she was not a success except in very strong winds; and yet when Mr. Herreshoff was called upon to produce another defender in 1903 he also took the scow form as his model. Reliance has the flat floor of the true scow, but she has not the hard turn of the bilge which was one of the features of the unfortunate Independence; in fact Relianceis a semi-scow.

 

Under the new rule the scow form will have to be given up, and we may expect to find a deeper-bodied craft, with a very easy turn of bilge. It seems a moot point as to whether the new type will be as fast as the old. Some designers say that a faster yacht can be built under the new conditions, but the majority differ. However, the question is—will the New York Yacht Club accept a challenge under its own Universal rule ? I very much doubt if they will, and I also doubt if it would be good policy for any British yachtsman to challenge

 

under the new rule. We have failed many times under the old rule, but why not have one more try. " It is a long lane that has no turning."

 

G. E. Hopcroft.

 

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Don't forget these are races of boats equivalent to Formula 1 and there are no cars in the world that can accelerate as fast, break as fast or turn a corner as fast as an F1 car.

 

I think he got the "break as fast" bit correct. I believe they also have good brakes.

Probably Pierre's Spanglish there, doing an audio transcript. JK's

 

... From a yacht design point of view, the multihull is the "ultimate racing machine" ...

 

is kinda cute for beemer fans; multihull fans too.

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Pardon my ignorant redneck question, but does anyone know of any winning Juan K. multihull designs or, for that matter, match racing designs?

Just askin'......

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Pardon my ignorant redneck question, but does anyone know of any winning Juan K. multihull designs or, for that matter, match racing designs?

Just askin'......

 

Here's a google

http://www.google.co...n&start=10&sa=N

 

with this nugget http://www.quigs.org/Farrier/why.html

 

From Sail magazine: "What is future of canting-ballast technology?" Juan Kouyoumdjian: "It depends on acceptance. I could argue that a canting-keel monohull is a very inefficient multihull. Imagine canting a keel to leeward and instead of ballast you have air. You would achieve the same increase in righting moment in a ligter solution and in fact you get a multihull. Our sailing community is divided, and choices are made on style or fashion; otherwise we'd all be sailing multihulls."

 

http://www.sailmagaz.../JuanKonDesign/

 

all Juan K on Sail

http://www.sailmagazine.com/search_results/?q=Juan+Kouyoumdjian

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Pardon my ignorant redneck question, but does anyone know of any winning Juan K. multihull designs or, for that matter, match racing designs?

Just askin'......

Shrug, I can't for sure name his best designs either but aren't his VOR's winning all the top places?

 

Someone was pointing out recently how there may be dead silence in the room after MM's multihull presentation, a stonewalling like what happened when the subject got raised by the emcee at a WYRF in December. BB spoke in favor of multi's, RC was ambivalent, but the others who spoke were decidedly monohull minded. They said almost the exact opposite of what JK did about their ability to mix it up inshore if that is what they get designed for. And so this JK piece could suggest he is more open-minded, that there could be some back-n-forth on it after all. He ~is~ TO's chosen guy, apparently. Another character I've been meaning to look up is Marstrom, hasn't he done both AC and mulithull designs?

 

We already know JS would be happy going multi's, EB's crowd too, same for Larsen, Booth, others sailors, writers like Boyd at TDS, several prominent guys at Seahorse (TO lovers, all of them), etc. So it isn't like there is ~no~ support for it; but among AC designers outside of Alinghi and BOR, yes of course it's a rare gem to find.

 

The biggest voice here recently was Larry in that TV interview. I wonder if he will be with the team in La M and if he will be as forthright again about that possibility.

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Pardon my ignorant redneck question, but does anyone know of any winning Juan K. multihull designs or, for that matter, match racing designs?

Just askin'......

Shrug, I can't for sure name his best designs either but aren't his VOR's winning all the top places?

Some info on that here

http://press.volvooc...ace.com/?p=3230

 

PUMA has named Juan Yacht Design, of Valencia, Spain as the lead boat designer of the new PUMA Ocean Racing yacht. Juan Kouyoumdjian’s designs have a perfect record in the Volvo Ocean Race since the inception of the Volvo Open 70 Rule. They are credited with designing the 2006 winner, ABN AMRO One and the 2009 winner, Ericsson 4.

 

and at

 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/news/article/2010/MAY/GROUPAMA-STRATEGY-UPDATE-070510/

 

Argentinean Juan Kouyoumdjian, the designer of the winning boats in the last two editions of the Volvo - ABN AMRO ONE (2005-06) and Ericsson 4 (2008-09) - has been chosen as designer for Groupama's new Volvo Open 70 - Groupama 4.

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Pardon my ignorant redneck question, but does anyone know of any winning Juan K. multihull designs or, for that matter, match racing designs?

Just askin'......

Shrug, I can't for sure name his best designs either but aren't his VOR's winning all the top places?

 

Someone was pointing out recently how there may be dead silence in the room after MM's multihull presentation, a stonewalling like what happened when the subject got raised by the emcee at a WYRF in December. BB spoke in favor of multi's, RC was ambivalent, but the others who spoke were decidedly monohull minded. They said almost the exact opposite of what JK did about their ability to mix it up inshore if that is what they get designed for. And so this JK piece could suggest he is more open-minded, that there could be some back-n-forth on it after all. He ~is~ TO's chosen guy, apparently. Another character I've been meaning to look up is Marstrom, hasn't he done both AC and mulithull designs?

 

We already know JS would be happy going multi's, EB's crowd too, same for Larsen, Booth, others sailors, writers like Boyd at TDS, several prominent guys at Seahorse (TO lovers, all of them), etc. So it isn't like there is ~no~ support for it; but among AC designers outside of Alinghi and BOR, yes of course it's a rare gem to find.

 

The biggest voice here recently was Larry in that TV interview. I wonder if he will be with the team in La M and if he will be as forthright again about that possibility.

 

Don't forget RC comment in Profil

http://americascupal...no-versus-multi

and John K in US Sailing

http://americascupal...n-john-kostecki

 

I hear that it its going to be a discussion/decision with the teams. So whats the survey of the likely teams predict (here)?

 

Interestingly Bruce Nelson has done mono-multi AC designs

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Pardon my ignorant redneck question, but does anyone know of any winning Juan K. multihull designs or, for that matter, match racing designs?

Just askin'......

Shrug, I can't for sure name his best designs either but aren't his VOR's winning all the top places?

 

Come to think of it, can anyone name a winning JuanK design outside of the Volvo, either monohull or multihull?

 

Looking at his website it looks like Speedboat and the Mader Star are about the only other things he has designed that have actually won anything.

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In the AudiMedCup telecasts Martin Tasker has been pronouncing Juan's family name.

 

I reckon nobody should have to call their company Juan K because people cannot be bothered to learn your name.

 

 

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Does anyone know who is chairing the AC design meetings in VLC.

 

When they did this in 1988 it worked out well.

 

Like teachers, designers love talking shop.

 

 

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Come to think of it, can anyone name a winning JuanK design outside of the Volvo, either monohull or multihull?

 

So you are saying that all he's done is dominate the principal grand-prix yachting event outside the AC.

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I remember in this last cycle how ML's Alessandra P. flew to Geneva, then left instead of signing the NDA she was given as condition for entering the meeting. I don't think that particular one was a designers meeting (think those were all held in Valencia) but it's reasonable to suggest hippocracy if ML is now a part of a similar arrangement, where nobody can talk about what they talked about under threat of, well whatever. Hopefully that has changed.

 

It seems discussions and possibly negotiations have been underway for a month or two between BMWO, the CoR and other potential challengers, yet barely a squeak has emerged on the content of those discussions except in a highly controlled manner through RC. The only plausible explanation is that NDAs are in place. That doesn't particular bother me - other than the hypocricy.

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.. That doesn't particular bother me - other than the hypocricy.

 

Closer, but still no cigar biggrin.gif

 

 

The meeting has just started. I took some pictures but then had to leave. I will be back with the questions in the afternoon (Valencia time)

 

Go Pierre, we're counting on you!!

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Based on the photos on VS can anyone identify all the players in the room? It might help to know who's in the meeting to be able to predict where the discussions will go.

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Based on the photos on VS can anyone identify all the players in the room? It might help to know who's in the meeting to be able to predict where the discussions will go.

In the top photo, from left to right:

 

Daniel Andrieu, Juan K, Bernard Nivelt, Jason Ker, Don't know, Harry Dunning, Pat Shaunessey, Luis Saenz, Don't know, Mike Drummand, Don't know, Russ Coutts, Don't know, Manolo Ruiz de Elvira, Ian Burns, Don't know, Don't know, Giovanni Ceccarelli, Andy Claughton.

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In the top photo, from left to right:

 

Daniel Andrieu, Juan K, Bernard Nivelt, Jason Ker, Don't know, Harry Dunning, Pat Shaunessey, Luis Saenz, Don't know, Mike Drummand, Don't know, Russ Coutts, Don't know, Manolo Ruiz de Elvira, Ian Burns, Don't know, Don't know, Giovanni Ceccarelli, Andy Claughton.

 

thanks daddy. Anyone want to put a gues to each ones bias? Mono or Multi? Space rocket or tactical machine?

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thanks daddy. Anyone want to put a gues to each ones bias? Mono or Multi? Space rocket or tactical machine?

 

Noteworthy news already: Rolf is there! I wonder if designers are affiliated to teams ..

 

About your question, no doubts about Ceccarelli - I remember his (in)famous comments, doesn't know an A-cat from a C-cat mad.gif . Is he there on ML's behalf (IIRC he designed the first boat, but not the latest)?

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thanks daddy. Anyone want to put a gues to each ones bias? Mono or Multi? Space rocket or tactical machine?

 

Noteworthy news already: Rolf is there! I wonder if designers are affiliated to teams ..

 

About your question, no doubts about Ceccarelli - I remember his (in)famous comments, doesn't know an A-cat from a C-cat mad.gif . Is he there on ML's behalf (IIRC he designed the first boat, but not the latest)?

Sorry, missed Rolf of my list.

Ceccarelli was with ML in Auckland and with +39 last time around. Harry Dunning was ML designer last time. I suspect these designers are there on their own merits generally rather than as team representatives. Although I am sure some got teams to pay for the flights. Several of them live in VLC anyway.

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Pardon my ignorant redneck question, but does anyone know of any winning Juan K. multihull designs or, for that matter, match racing designs?

Just askin'......

Shrug, I can't for sure name his best designs either but aren't his VOR's winning all the top places?

 

Come to think of it, can anyone name a winning JuanK design outside of the Volvo, either monohull or multihull?

 

Looking at his website it looks like Speedboat and the Mader Star are about the only other things he has designed that have actually won anything.

 

Star Olympic gold medal boat / keel for Percy/Simpson. Percy gave him a lot of credit, though I think Percy has got talent to burn.

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Based on the photos on VS can anyone identify all the players in the room? It might help to know who's in the meeting to be able to predict where the discussions will go.

In the top photo, from left to right:

 

Daniel Andrieu, Juan K, Bernard Nivelt, Jason Ker, Don't know, Harry Dunning, Pat Shaunessey, Luis Saenz, Don't know, Mike Drummand, Don't know, Russ Coutts, Don't know, Manolo Ruiz de Elvira, Ian Burns, Don't know, Don't know, Giovanni Ceccarelli, Andy Claughton.

 

Mani Frers in the deep blue shirt with longish hair. Back to camera in second shot VS posted. One of those don't knows must be from the RP office. <edit> http://www.sail-world.com/photos/Med_vlc0508_0113.jpg the one next to Drummond. </edit> The first don't know looked like maybe Jim Schmicker - could FYD have sent two?

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Based on the photos on VS can anyone identify all the players in the room? It might help to know who's in the meeting to be able to predict where the discussions will go.

In the top photo, from left to right:

 

Daniel Andrieu, Juan K, Bernard Nivelt, Jason Ker, Don't know, Harry Dunning, Pat Shaunessey, Luis Saenz, Don't know, Mike Drummand, Don't know, Russ Coutts, Don't know, Manolo Ruiz de Elvira, Ian Burns, Don't know, Don't know, Giovanni Ceccarelli, Andy Claughton.

 

Mani Frers in the deep blue shirt with longish hair. Back to camera in second shot VS posted. One of those don't knows must be from the RP office. <edit> http://www.sail-world.com/photos/Med_vlc0508_0113.jpg the one next to Drummond. </edit> The first don't know looked like maybe Jim Schmicker - could FYD have sent two?

Ahh yes, John Reichel next to Mike Drummond. Mani needs a hair cut!!!

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Those are all mostly V5 designers, only a few have designed TP52s. So how could they possibly agree on a multihull?? <_<

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Those are all mostly V5 designers, only a few have designed TP52s. So how could they possibly agree on a multihull?? dry.gif

Agree? easy because you cant really match race in a 1 hull because match racing would require leed changes and in 95% of 1 hull match racing the lead never changes, its just a race of follow the leader or cover the follower, where as in multi hull match racing the lead changes far more often, making it a true match race, they are matched and they can race not just follow or leader, due to the amazing high speeds in small wind changes the lead can be easliy taken away from the following multi, the vx40 prove this time and time again, so do the A class cats, really get off the druggs next time you watch a 1 hull match race and you will see the boat first over the start line nearly always wins, the race is over before it starts.

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Those are all mostly V5 designers, only a few have designed TP52s. So how could they possibly agree on a multihull?? dry.gif

Agree? easy because you cant really match race in a 1 hull because match racing would require leed changes and in 95% of 1 hull match racing the lead never changes, its just a race of follow the leader or cover the follower, where as in multi hull match racing the lead changes far more often, making it a true match race, they are matched and they can race not just follow or leader, due to the amazing high speeds in small wind changes the lead can be easliy taken away from the following multi, the vx40 prove this time and time again, so do the A class cats, really get off the druggs next time you watch a 1 hull match race and you will see the boat first over the start line nearly always wins, the race is over before it starts.

Accept it. A monohull will be used, and the decision will come from BOR and ML after they have listened to others, like this group. This group will not be making decisions, only recommendations.

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You might kind of expect BO's boat to be up on the wall of BO's base wouldn't you?

 

More interesting for me in this photo is where has Rolf gone? Just there for the early photos was he?

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Based on the photos on VS can anyone identify all the players in the room? It might help to know who's in the meeting to be able to predict where the discussions will go.

In the top photo, from left to right:

 

Daniel Andrieu, Juan K, Bernard Nivelt, Jason Ker, Don't know, Harry Dunning, Pat Shaunessey, Luis Saenz, Don't know, Mike Drummand, Don't know, Russ Coutts, Don't know, Manolo Ruiz de Elvira, Ian Burns, Don't know, Don't know, Giovanni Ceccarelli, Andy Claughton.

 

Mani Frers in the deep blue shirt with longish hair. Back to camera in second shot VS posted. One of those don't knows must be from the RP office. <edit> http://www.sail-worl...lc0508_0113.jpg the one next to Drummond. </edit> The first don't know looked like maybe Jim Schmicker - could FYD have sent two?

 

Isn't #9 ( http://4.bp.blogspot.../DSC_1046_1.JPG dark sweater by the door in front of camera ) Pete Melvin?

http://americascupal...lps-shape-ac-34

 

Do we see Bruce Nelson?? Heres an older pic

http://www.google.co...7BZPSsgOegJHvCw

 

post-1447-127419282668_thumb.jpg

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In the top photo, from left to right:

 

Daniel Andrieu, Juan K, Bernard Nivelt, Jason Ker, Don't know, Harry Dunning, Pat Shaunessey, Luis Saenz, Don't know, Mike Drummand, Don't know, Russ Coutts, Don't know, Manolo Ruiz de Elvira, Ian Burns, Don't know, Don't know, Giovanni Ceccarelli, Andy Claughton.

 

thanks daddy. Anyone want to put a gues to each ones bias? Mono or Multi? Space rocket or tactical machine?

 

Frers=mono,Andrieu=mono,Juan=mono,Nivelt = maybe multi,Ker = mono,DK,Dunning = mono,Shaunessey = mono,Saenz = mono,DK,Drummond = maybe multi,Reichel = mono,Russell=??,DK,Manolo = mono,Fresh=??,DK,DK,Ceccarelli = mono,Claughton = mono,Rolf = mono. Botin is in there somewhere as well = mono.

 

Not looking good for the multis if you ask me.

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In the top photo, from left to right:

 

Daniel Andrieu, Juan K, Bernard Nivelt, Jason Ker, Don't know, Harry Dunning, Pat Shaunessey, Luis Saenz, Don't know, Mike Drummand, Don't know, Russ Coutts, Don't know, Manolo Ruiz de Elvira, Ian Burns, Don't know, Don't know, Giovanni Ceccarelli, Andy Claughton.

 

thanks daddy. Anyone want to put a gues to each ones bias? Mono or Multi? Space rocket or tactical machine?

 

Frers=mono,Andrieu=mono,Juan=mono,Nivelt = maybe multi,Ker = mono,DK,Dunning = mono,Shaunessey = mono,Saenz = mono,DK,Drummond = maybe multi,Reichel = mono,Russell=??,DK,Manolo = mono,Fresh=??,DK,DK,Ceccarelli = mono,Claughton = mono,Rolf = mono. Botin is in there somewhere as well = mono.

 

Not looking good for the multis if you ask me.

How many boats has Luis Saenz designed? Mono or multi? :D

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In the top photo, from left to right:

 

Daniel Andrieu, Juan K, Bernard Nivelt, Jason Ker, Don't know, Harry Dunning, Pat Shaunessey, Luis Saenz, Don't know, Mike Drummand, Don't know, Russ Coutts, Don't know, Manolo Ruiz de Elvira, Ian Burns, Don't know, Don't know, Giovanni Ceccarelli, Andy Claughton.

 

thanks daddy. Anyone want to put a gues to each ones bias? Mono or Multi? Space rocket or tactical machine?

 

Frers=mono,Andrieu=mono,Juan=mono,Nivelt = maybe multi,Ker = mono,DK,Dunning = mono,Shaunessey = mono,Saenz = mono,DK,Drummond = maybe multi,Reichel = mono,Russell=??,DK,Manolo = mono,Fresh=??,DK,DK,Ceccarelli = mono,Claughton = mono,Rolf = mono. Botin is in there somewhere as well = mono.

 

Not looking good for the multis if you ask me.

How many boats has Luis Saenz designed? Mono or multi? :D

 

Well, I don't know many lawyers who can design a boat, but I assume he is there representing Luna Rossa, in which case he will be voting for a mono.

 

Any argument about the preferences of the other designers smartypants?

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Any argument about the preferences of the other designers smartypants?

 

Nivelt is probably more mono biased if anything.

 

And that is Mister smartypants to you!!!

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Nivelt has probably designed more cats than any other designer there apart from Pete Melvin, so I thought he might have been inclined that way, but, yeah, he's probably in the mono camp.

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In the top photo, from left to right:

 

Daniel Andrieu, Juan K, Bernard Nivelt, Jason Ker, Don't know, Harry Dunning, Pat Shaunessey, Luis Saenz, Don't know, Mike Drummand, Don't know, Russ Coutts, Don't know, Manolo Ruiz de Elvira, Ian Burns, Don't know, Don't know, Giovanni Ceccarelli, Andy Claughton.

 

thanks daddy. Anyone want to put a gues to each ones bias? Mono or Multi? Space rocket or tactical machine?

 

Frers=mono,Andrieu=mono,Juan=mono,Nivelt = maybe multi,Ker = mono,DK,Dunning = mono,Shaunessey = mono,Saenz = mono,DK,Drummond = maybe multi,Reichel = mono,Russell=??,DK,Manolo = mono,Fresh=??,DK,DK,Ceccarelli = mono,Claughton = mono,Rolf = mono. Botin is in there somewhere as well = mono.

 

Not looking good for the multis if you ask me.

 

Ian Burns designed both Multi and mono AC boats. The multihull still floats :-) although Ian said with a smile that the mono was "light"

 

http://picasaweb.goo...at=embedwebsite

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In the top photo, from left to right:

 

Daniel Andrieu, Juan K, Bernard Nivelt, Jason Ker, Don't know, Harry Dunning, Pat Shaunessey, Luis Saenz, Don't know, Mike Drummand, Don't know, Russ Coutts, Don't know, Manolo Ruiz de Elvira, Ian Burns, Don't know, Don't know, Giovanni Ceccarelli, Andy Claughton.

 

thanks daddy. Anyone want to put a gues to each ones bias? Mono or Multi? Space rocket or tactical machine?

 

Frers=mono,Andrieu=mono,Juan=mono,Nivelt = maybe multi,Ker = mono,DK,Dunning = mono,Shaunessey = mono,Saenz = mono,DK,Drummond = maybe multi,Reichel = mono,Russell=??,DK,Manolo = mono,Fresh=??,DK,DK,Ceccarelli = mono,Claughton = mono,Rolf = mono. Botin is in there somewhere as well = mono.

 

Not looking good for the multis if you ask me.

 

Ian Burns designed both Multi and mono AC boats. The multihull still floats :-) although Ian said with a smile that the mono was "light"

 

http://picasaweb.goo...at=embedwebsite

 

Anybody recognize any of these faces? VPLP surely must be there?

 

http://www.vplp.fr/flash/index_vplp_project_r.html

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Aaargh!, on 18 May 2010 - 07:14 AM, said:

 

Cobra 524, on 18 May 2010 - 09:46 AM, said:

 

Who said:

 

In the top photo, from left to right:

 

Daniel Andrieu, Juan K, Bernard Nivelt, Jason Ker, Don't know, Harry Dunning, Pat Shaunessey, Luis Saenz, Don't know, Mike Drummand, Don't know, Russ Coutts, Don't know , Manolo Ruiz de Elvira, Ian Burns, Don't know, Don't know, Giovanni Ceccarelli, Andy Claughton.

 

 

thanks daddy. Anyone want to put a gues to each ones bias? Mono or Multi? Space rocket or tactical machine?

 

 

Frers=mono,Andrieu=mono,Juan=mono,Nivelt = maybe multi,Ker = mono,DK,Dunning = mono,Shaunessey = mono,Saenz = mono,DK,Drummond = maybe multi,Reichel = mono,Russell=??,DK,Manolo = mono,Fresh=??,DK,DK,Ceccarelli = mono,Claughton = mono,Rolf = mono. Botin is in there somewhere as well = mono.

 

Not looking good for the multis if you ask me.

 

 

Blue Shirt next to RC in the right corner looks very much like Lauriot-Prevot from VPLP

I guess he may be classified as multi.

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Drummond = maybe multi

 

Not looking good for the multis if you ask me.

Drummond is definitely pro-multi and will say so, unless he has orders to pipe down or keep quiet.

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Based on the photos on VS can anyone identify all the players in the room? It might help to know who's in the meeting to be able to predict where the discussions will go.

In the top photo, from left to right:

 

Daniel Andrieu, Juan K, Bernard Nivelt, Jason Ker, Don't know, Harry Dunning, Pat Shaunessey, Luis Saenz, Don't know, Mike Drummand, Don't know, Russ Coutts, Don't know, Manolo Ruiz de Elvira, Ian Burns, Don't know, Don't know, Giovanni Ceccarelli, Andy Claughton.

 

Mani Frers in the deep blue shirt with longish hair. Back to camera in second shot VS posted. One of those don't knows must be from the RP office. <edit> http://www.sail-worl...lc0508_0113.jpg the one next to Drummond. </edit> The first don't know looked like maybe Jim Schmicker - could FYD have sent two?

 

Isn't #9 ( http://4.bp.blogspot.../DSC_1046_1.JPG dark sweater by the door in front of camera ) Pete Melvin?

http://americascupal...lps-shape-ac-34

 

Do we see Bruce Nelson?? Heres an older pic

http://www.google.co...7BZPSsgOegJHvCw

 

post-1447-127419282668_thumb.jpg

 

 

Are M&M there as well? And that other guy BMWO commissioned to design a mono?

 

Believe Pete Melvin is gray sweater to left of door

 

Believe LP of VPLP i so n right next to RC

 

Nobody seems to ID Bruce Nelson (Mono guy for AC 34 although he has designed AC multihulls before)

 

What about Alinghi design team?

 

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=reply_post&f=23&t=108569&qpid=2851470

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Drummond = maybe multi

 

Not looking good for the multis if you ask me.

Drummond is definitely pro-multi and will say so, unless he has orders to pipe down or keep quiet.

 

Please elaborate, provide references

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pro-multi

 

These are the hired help, not the decision-makers.

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Herve Devaux is to the right of Fresh. He has designed structures for both Mono and multi hulled craft. noteably the 'active' structures in the ABN AMRO Volvo boats. Lauriot Prevost between Coutts and Manola and John Reichel to the left of Coutts.

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http://www.tribormat.fr/post/2010/05/18/la-34-eme-coupe-de-lamerica-se-dessine-a-valencia/

 

 

Mani Frers (Argentin)

Daniel Andrieu (FR)

Juan Kouyoumdjian (Franco Argentin)

Bernard Nivelt (FR)

Jason Ker (GBR)

Marcelino Botin

Harry Duning

Patrick Shaughnessy ( Farr Yacht Design ) USA

Saenz

Pete Melvin (USA)

Mike Drummond (NZL)

 

John Reichel (USA)

Russell Coutts (NZL) en retrait

Vincent Lauriot Prévot (FR)

Manolo Ruiz Elvira

Ian Burns

Hervé Devaux (FR)

Bruce Nelson

Giovanni Ceccarelli

Andy Claugton ( TNZ )

Rolf Vrolijk, Alinghi

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Drummond = maybe multi

 

Not looking good for the multis if you ask me.

Drummond is definitely pro-multi and will say so, unless he has orders to pipe down or keep quiet.

Please elaborate, provide references

Mike has been quoted multiple times as saying "Why would you want to go slow?" when asked about a new monohull design for AC34.

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Kimball's writeup

 

http://kimballlivingston.com/?p=3113

 

 

http://www.tribormat...ine-a-valencia/

 

 

Mani Frers (Argentin)

Daniel Andrieu (FR)

Juan Kouyoumdjian (Franco Argentin)

Bernard Nivelt (FR)

Jason Ker (GBR)

Marcelino Botin

Harry Duning

Patrick Shaughnessy ( Farr Yacht Design ) USA

Saenz

Pete Melvin (USA)

Mike Drummond (NZL)

 

John Reichel (USA)

Russell Coutts (NZL) en retrait

Vincent Lauriot Prévot (FR)

Manolo Ruiz Elvira

Ian Burns

Hervé Devaux (FR)

Bruce Nelson

Giovanni Ceccarelli

Andy Claugton ( TNZ )

Rolf Vrolijk, Alinghi

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From the above link:

 

"In the most significant step toward creating the next America's Cup class, designers discussed multihulls of approximately 66 and 82 feet (20 and 25 meters) and a monohull class of up to approximately 89 feet (27 meters)."

 

Two multi types being considered? Seems like multi fans still have a dog in this race. As for the reported monohull length, isn't that around the same length as the old V5 boats? Is that the only length that will garuntee good racing in a monohull?

 

WetHog :ph34r:

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In the most significant step toward creating the next America's Cup class, designers discussed multihulls of approximately 66 and 82 feet (20 and 25 meters) and a monohull class of up to approximately 89 feet (27 meters).

 

I am very impressed that one of the multi's being discussed is that big - wow!

 

 

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From the above link:

 

"In the most significant step toward creating the next America's Cup class, designers discussed multihulls of approximately 66 and 82 feet (20 and 25 meters) and a monohull class of up to approximately 89 feet (27 meters)."

 

Two multi types being considered? Seems like multi fans still have a dog in this race. As for the reported monohull length, isn't that around the same length as the old V5 boats? Is that the only length that will garuntee good racing in a monohull?

 

WetHog ph34r.gif

 

What draft on mono class ?

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Fresh Burns is chairing the design meeting in VLC.

 

Good choice! He is an affable bloke.

 

And Rolf is there.

 

For Alinghi, himself? Or another syndicate?

 

Another affable bloke.

 

Is he having a good time?

 

Check Pierre's picture.

 

I am at a UN conference in Shanghai. For some unfathomable reason, along with youtube and Facebook, Pierre's site is blocked here ! Most of the links in the early part of this thread would not open. I got the RV picture off Richard's site which, he will be pleased to know, is not blocked !!! At least not today!

 

 

 

post-29902-127421561478_thumb.jpg

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I am at a UN conference in Shanghai. For some unfathomable reason, along with YouTube and Facebook, Pierre's site is blocked here ! Most of the links in the early part of this thread would not open. I got the RV picture off Richard's site which, he will be pleased to know, is not blocked !!! At least not today!

And how does the good professor feel about this? Or, perhaps he'd rather not say? Which would be understandable.

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...I am at a UN conference in Shanghai. For some unfathomable reason, along with youtube and Facebook, Pierre's site is blocked here ! Most of the links in the early part of this thread would not open. I got the RV picture off Richard's site which, he will be pleased to know, is not blocked !!! At least not today!

 

 

 

And SA is not completely blocked????

WTF!!! blink.gif

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It appears Manolo was Pierre's chosen victim.

 

Trimarans sad.gif

 

Kind of surprise from M&M but I'll guess its more like D35..

..brilliant meeting location..send boat designer geeks to the ultimate geek toy store

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Valencia Sailing: ... Who has the last word?

Manolo Ruiz Elvira: Well, the last word will be between the heads of the teams. The aim of those discussions and collection of all that information is to help us take a decision that we think will suit the majority. I think the answer will come by itself.

 

FWIW, my comment: surprised (but perhaps I shouldn't be) by how large the contemplated boats are - if my "source"'s info is even remotely reliable, only one alternative is economically viable for most teams for a two boat campaign.

Guess which one? *

 

 

* the winner will get a free copy of the WSJ, FT or FAZ ...

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Valencia Sailing: ... Who has the last word?

Manolo Ruiz Elvira: Well, the last word will be between the heads of the teams. The aim of those discussions and collection of all that information is to help us take a decision that we think will suit the majority. I think the answer will come by itself.

 

FWIW, my comment: surprised (but perhaps I shouldn't be) by how large the contemplated boats are - if my "source"'s info is even remotely reliable, only one alternative is economically viable for most teams for a two boat campaign.

Guess which one? *

 

* the winner will get a free copy of the WSJ, FT or FAZ ...

 

I guess multihull

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Valencia Sailing: ... Who has the last word?

Manolo Ruiz Elvira: Well, the last word will be between the heads of the teams. The aim of those discussions and collection of all that information is to help us take a decision that we think will suit the majority. I think the answer will come by itself.

 

FWIW, my comment: surprised (but perhaps I shouldn't be) by how large the contemplated boats are - if my "source"'s info is even remotely reliable, only one alternative is economically viable for most teams for a two boat campaign.

Guess which one? *

* the winner will get a free copy of the WSJ, FT or FAZ ...

The smaller multihull.

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POSTED YET?

 

martes 18 de mayo de 2010

 

<a href="http://valenciayacht.blogspot.com/2010/05/designers-focus-on-new-americas-cup.html" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold; ">Designers focus on new America’s Cup Class

A significant step was taken towards creating the next America’s Cup boat when 19 designers met in Valencia.

 

 

Central to the deliberations was whether to develop a monohull or a multihull for the 34th America’s Cup.

 

 

The conference was held at the home base of BMW ORACLE Racing during its successful 33rd America’s Cup campaign.

 

 

“The teams want a new boat; the fans deserve one too,” commented Russell Coutts, four time winner of the America’s Cup.

 

 

“It will not be a ‘defender’s boat’. It will be the product of genuine discussion and dialogue,” Coutts added.

 

 

The Valencia meetings were chaired by BMW ORACLE Racing’s design coordinator, Ian Burns.

 

 

Around the table was a ‘who’s who’ of yacht design: 10 nationalities were represented, with winning records in every level rating class from Quarter Tonners to TP52s as well as the Volvo Ocean Race, Jules Verne Trophy, classic races such as the Fastnet and Sydney-Hobart and, the America’s Cup.

 

 

Structural and performance experts also attended as did those with experience of creating rules for the ACC, Whitbread 60 and Volvo 70 classes.

 

 

Two different multihulls (20m and 25m LOA) were discussed as was one monohull (up to 27m LOA).

 

 

The new concepts were conceived by eminent designers Bruce Nelson and Morelli/Melvin, creators of previous America’s Cup winning yachts.

 

 

Besides their expertise, Nelson and Morelli/Melvin were chosen because they are unaligned with either BMW ORACLE Racing or the Challenger of Record, Club Nautico di Roma/Mascalzone Latino.

 

 

High performance is fundamental to all three concepts. The monohull proposal will give significantly faster speeds upwind and downwind compared to boats used in 2007.

 

 

The America’s Cup is the pinnacle of our sport, so the boats should be physically demanding to race well and produce fast, competitive racing to engage new fans, said Burns.

 

 

Requirements for all three concepts are:

 

 

· fast, dynamic and close racing

 

· high levels of athleticism required to race the boats to their optimum

 

· advanced, efficient and cost-effective technologies

 

· logistical efficiency to facilitate transport to a regular series of regattas

 

· distinctive to the America’s Cup

 

· versatility, enabling racing in any venue in winds from 5-35 knots

 

 

Versatility is seen as essential to minimise disruption to racing.

 

 

“Delays and postponements kill interest,” commented Coutts.America’s Cup boats shouldn’t be the last to start racing and the first to quit whilst other classes are still racing. They also need to be designed from the outset to unleash the full potential of television.”

 

 

Television specialists will provide expertise and advice before the rule is written so that media requirements are incorporated at the outset.

 

 

The World Sailing Teams Association has been asked if it would manage the rule drafting. Non-aligned experts will be used to ensure fairness to all teams.

 

 

The rule-writers will report back to all teams equally and frequently. And teams will have the chance to review the new rule before it is finalized.

 

 

Publication of the new class rule will be no later than 30th September.

 

Publicado por valencia yacht management en 10:10Etiquetas: BMW Oracle, Port Americas Cup

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Valencia Sailing: ... Who has the last word?

Manolo Ruiz Elvira: Well, the last word will be between the heads of the teams. The aim of those discussions and collection of all that information is to help us take a decision that we think will suit the majority. I think the answer will come by itself.

 

FWIW, my comment: surprised (but perhaps I shouldn't be) by how large the contemplated boats are - if my "source"'s info is even remotely reliable, only one alternative is economically viable for most teams for a two boat campaign.

Guess which one? *

 

* the winner will get a free copy of the WSJ, FT or FAZ ...

 

I guess multihull

 

Your're dreaming. BMWO opting out of the rule formulation process and putting it in the hands of the WSTA is like putting the foxes in charge of the henhouse. A group of teams filled with monohull sailors, with monohull designers on their staff, are only going to vote one way, and that is the way that serves their best interests. The only guys that might actually want multihulls are within BMWO, and the fact that some designers and sailors within BMWO would like multis is a very good reason for all the other teams not to want multis.

 

So Xlot, my guess is monohull. I'll let you know where to send my FAZ, I've always wanted one of those little Turkish hats.

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POSTED YET?

 

martes 18 de mayo de 2010

 

<a href="http://valenciayacht.blogspot.com/2010/05/designers-focus-on-new-americas-cup.html" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold; ">Designers focus on new America’s Cup Class

A significant step was taken towards creating the next America’s Cup boat when 19 designers met in Valencia.

 

 

Central to the deliberations was whether to develop a monohull or a multihull for the 34th America’s Cup.

 

 

The conference was