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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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sleddog

The Legend of IMP

59 posts in this topic

A shout out for Bill Barton on the launch of his new book “THE LEGEND OF IMP.” Bill's labor of love and first hand account relives the birth of West Coast IOR racing: Doug Peterson's GANBARE, the SORC's, BBS, and Admirals Cups, and concludes with a shivering recount of the '79 Fastnet Race storm as viewed from the deck of the Holland 39 IMP.

 

Exhaustingly researched, and self published on his own nickel, "THE LEGEND OF IMP" is part Kerouac, part existential biography, and an exhaustive record of an epic era of ocean racing. Our friends and boyhood heroes are featured throughout Bill's candid account: DC, Billy Green, Ted Turner, Bone, Rumsey, Skip Etchells, Dick Carter, George Kiskaddon,Tom Wylie, E.Ben Mitchell, Larry Klein, Ron Holland and Dave Allen, to name a few.

 

If you sailed during the years of bloopers and banana splits, lead dogs and LOVE MACHINES, (or want to know what this sailing madness was about) I commend to you Bill's no holds barred story.

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Skip! You forgot the link! The Legend of IMP

 

This is a great read. Great pictures. The web site has a cool slide show of photos accompanied by Pink Floyd's "Fearless". Takes a while to load but worth the wait.

 

After reading Chapter 9 "Painful Lessons" I ran out the next day and plunked down cash for a Spinlock Deckvest. The account of Larry Klein's tragic death is the most complete and compelling account available.

 

I remember when Improbable burst on the scene and I was in total awe of that boat. I followed every race, studied every picture. Later, in the IMP era, I was privileged to do a few races on Holland boats that bracketed IMP -- Nemea was a 2-tonner cold molded by Souter of Cowes and owned/raced by Peter Goulandris of Athens, Greece, and Shenandoah which was very similar to IMP, space-frame and all -- owned and sailed by Bill Palmer of Newport Beach.

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Watched the slide show and all I can say is wow. I'm ordering a copy!

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Definitely a great read, and a great trip down memory lane (never raced on Imp, but had the pleasure of racing on and against Shenandoah and Tomahawk...)

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Great slide show...wow what a great trip down memory lane and totally cool for anybody who sails. Tonnies & IOR, bloopers and cutoffs. Excellent.

 

Those were the boats on the front page of every magazine when just starting to learn about weather helm and leeway, about knots and winch maintenance.

 

I'll bet a bunch of us have photos not unlike some of those in our own private stash.

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Definitely a great read, and a great trip down memory lane (never raced on Imp, but had the pleasure of racing on and against Shenandoah and Tomahawk...)

 

SHENANDOAH was a near sister to IMP, owned by Bill Palmer of Newport Beach. I still sometimes sit up straight in bed remembering the start of Race 1 of an early 80's Big Boat Series aboard SHENANDOAH. We were a few seconds early back to the line in the usual afternoon westerly. I stood and lifted the green aluminum tiller up off horizontal to make some time-killing scallops in our course.

 

With five seconds to go, the tiller slipped neatly into the end of SHENADOAH's low-to-the-deck boom. Now head to wind, the main flogged rapidly, shaking the tiller like a dog on a tasty bone, not about to let go.

 

Froggy, Pedro, and crew rotated their heads aft to see what the hell their driver was doing now. I can at times be speechless. But our crew understood my bellow and mustered aft to bail us out of our predicament.

 

7 crew standing aft of the driver attempting to extricate the tiller from a gyrating boom is not a good look on a tight BBS starting line. And I never forgave Dave Ullman, who told me that evening in the bar that the same thing had happened to him the previous year on SHENANDOAH. ;-)

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Wonder if there is any reference to the near-sister "Moonshadow" ? Looks like a good read.

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Fun slide show for us old timers who used to sail those old war horses. Second time today I heard Pink Floyd's "Fearless" and both times they cut off the "You will never walk alone" english football chant. Man, we all had that 70's porn star look back then didn't we?

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Epic story. One day we'll see some wild ocean racing circuits again, I'm convinced. It was just too cool not to come back.

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Got my copy a few weeks back...so worth it...really pulls one back to a great time in racing when people sailed for the love of the sport. Fantastic read and I would recommend it to all.

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My dad did the southern circuit for years. I remember walking the SPYC docks way back and seeing the likes of Escapade and Ticonderoga. Followed by the new glass hulls and the aluminum era with boats from PJ and Derecktors. But it was when boats like Imp, Evergreen and Obsession arrived in the 70's that I went wow! That's cool. We had 10 feet of waterline on Imp and she blew by us.

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Besides being a damn fine documentary, LEGEND OF IMP is chock full of revelations and discoveries. For example, who really designed IMP?

 

Most of all, “Dr Feelgood” (author Bill Barton) focuses on the dynamics that made IMP, her owner, and crew, such a force. It is the story of Family, warts and all.

 

Bill begins the book sharing with us how he used up one of his nine lives: During a BBS mark rounding on IMPROBABLE, he has been ripped overboard by a drogue spinny and is being towed astern by a galvanized wire afterguy wrapped around his likely soon to be departed leg.

 

The book details more life (and death) experiences, many a traditional publishing house would likely not choose to print. Bill is, after all, a doctor of clinical psychology. And though he has never read or posted on SA, Bill would fit right in here.

 

I asked Bill how long it took to write LEGEND OF IMP. His reply: “My mother died at 92 in August 2005, and I felt like I had lost my keel to my being.” ...

 

“Then when I flipped my BMW coming over from Muir Beach on Mt Tam to attend a Saturday lecture in the City on Freud's theory of the "death instinct" .. I knew I had no keel ... it was a near death escape ...and I knew it was time to start some of my own therapy. I began to write among other things and so that is when I began... mainly on weekends and then it became bigger, and I knew it was time to not only focus on my process but on the legendary yacht and a story that needed to be told."

 

"I dropped all the first 18 years stuff of my life and zeroed in on how our crew all came together, and SPIRIT and IMPROBABLE's key roles.. About a year or more ago , I dropped Weds from my clinical practice and started cranking much harder.. hundreds of unreturned e-mails etc.. But cosmic coincidences kept the light burning ... was basically a 4 to 5 year effort of my "spare time" ....

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Epic story. One day we'll see some wild ocean racing circuits again, I'm convinced. It was just too cool not to come back.

 

 

So here is a question... what about that time made the ocean racing circuit "wild"? I was not following sailing at that point in my life, and I just wonder what was different back then other than the haircuts.

 

The reason I ask is because in some respects I feel like we have been living in some pretty interesting times for ocean racing in these past 5 + years and I wonder if 25 years from now we will be looking back at this time as halcyon days.

 

I can think of a few things that would make a particular window of time as memorable, but I just don't know if they apply, or how the times of the late 70's differ from those of today.

 


  •  
  • Boats: the boats of represented a quantum leap in design and speed and therefore captured interest. But the boats of the past 5 plus years have made similar advances.
  • Events: there was a good increase in the number and type of events, representing growth in the industry. But we have similar (or even the same) events these days. Stalwarts like Fastnet, Sidney Hobart, Newport Bermuda. And other events and formats that have grown in size and popularity since then such as the Vendee or the Figaro. Have we perhaps reached the point now where there are too many events, splitting participation and interest?
  • Participation levels: Were there more boats partcipating back then? Have the modern demands of time and money or even safety requirements and other hurdles reduced particpation? I know what the numbers look like these days, but what did they look like back then?
  • Personalities: Those days had interesting people, with interesting stories, and lots of shenanigans. Has the advent of Pro's and the growth of sailing and a racing as a career ended up homogenizing the participants?
  • Intrigue: For those who followed the sport, you had to wait until your monthly edition of Sail came out. It helped build anticipation. Has the ease by which we get information in the modern day made everything that much more familiar and therefore that much more banal?

 

I have no idea what the answers are, and the reality is that we might even be living in similarily interesting times and just not realize it by virtue of temporal proximity. But it sure seems like Imp was representative of a time in racing where lightening was captured in a bottle. And if we care about our sport, and want to see it thrive, the question would be how to catch that kind of wave again.

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Well, this is just my opinion, but I suspect there are a few who would agree to the generalities I am putting below. And, yes, the haircuts were fucking rad.

 

Epic story. One day we'll see some wild ocean racing circuits again, I'm convinced. It was just too cool not to come back.

 

 

So here is a question... what about that time made the ocean racing circuit "wild"? I was not following sailing at that point in my life, and I just wonder what was different back then other than the haircuts.

 

The reason I ask is because in some respects I feel like we have been living in some pretty interesting times for ocean racing in these past 5 + years and I wonder if 25 years from now we will be looking back at this time as halcyon days.

 

I can think of a few things that would make a particular window of time as memorable, but I just don't know if they apply, or how the times of the late 70's differ from those of today.

 

  • Boats: the boats of represented a quantum leap in design and speed and therefore captured interest. But the boats of the past 5 plus years have made similar advance.

  • Absolutely. I think this is a very interesting parallel. The construction has gotten a little more regimented though, where it used to be like the wild west with all sorts of random materials and methods used.

  • Events: there was a good increase in the number and type of events, representing growth in the industry. But we have similar (or even the same) events these days. Stalwarts like Fastnet, Sidney Hobart, Newport Bermuda. And other events and formats that have grown in size and popularity since then such as the Vendee or the Figaro. Have we perhaps reached the point now where there are too many events, splitting participation and interest?

  • There is actually considerably less events. W/L racing has siphoned off many, many events. Not just big ones, but tons of little ones. But I think this is changing due to shifting interest within the sailing community.

  • Participation levels: Were there more boats partcipating back then? Have the modern demands of time and money or even safety requirements and other hurdles reduced particpation? I know what the numbers look like these days, but what did they look like back then?

  • No comparison in numbers in many events. There are still some events which pack them in, and actually, have seen increases due to there not being as many options anymore. The second part of that sentence is my opinion mind you. but overall, there are not nearly the depth of fleet as before. The old SORC, Admirals Cups, Kenwood Cups, etc, put loads of Grand Prix boats on the water damn near constantly. But again, this seems to be changing. There is a good segment of world traveling boats now( probably a dozen or so I would just guess off hand) who are making the rounds.

  • Personalities: Those days had interesting people, with interesting stories, and lots of shenanigans. Has the advent of Pro's and the growth of sailing and a racing as a career ended up homogenizing the participants?

  • Big factor. Professionalism has changed the whole face of the game. Simply, it's quite boring and sterile relatively speaking.

  • Intrigue: For those who followed the sport, you had to wait until your monthly edition of Sail came out. It helped build anticipation. Has the ease by which we get information in the modern day made everything that much more familiar and therefore that much more banal?

  • Very good observation. I really agree. And not just with sailboat racing, but generally all of our lives. The romance is gone.

I have no idea what the answers are, and the reality is that we might even be living in similarily interesting times and just not realize it by virtue of temporal proximity. But it sure seems like Imp was representative of a time in racing where lightening was captured in a bottle. And if we care about our sport, and want to see it thrive, the question would be how to catch that kind of wave again.

 

So basically, my view would be, no, we are not in one of those times right now, but very likely, right on the cusp. i think we are riding the initial wave up.

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I'm with you on waiting for the next edition of Sail to come out to see what happened in that years SORC. I was just a kid went Imp was first sailing but those boats solidified my love of the sport. When I saw this thread it reminded me that there was aboat with a similar paint job up on the hard in Charleston. I went back to take a look and it was IMP. Here is a picture of her now. Looks like a new keel and rudder.

post-43933-12804978018_thumb.jpg

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I'm with you on waiting for the next edition of Sail to come out to see what happened in that years SORC. I was just a kid went Imp was first sailing but those boats solidified my love of the sport. When I saw this thread it reminded me that there was aboat with a similar paint job up on the hard in Charleston. I went back to take a look and it was IMP. Here is a picture of her now. Looks like a new keel and rudder.

 

Matt DI ... can you send me that pic ? I do have several from the yard as Rumsey and I raced her in Charleston RW in 2009 and hope to again in 2011. thanks.. I like the photo and backdrop .. send as high res as possible as would love to use it in my slide show/ book read, best, Bill biobill@pacbell.net (ps story of keel and rudder change , indeed in the book!)

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I'm with you on waiting for the next edition of Sail to come out to see what happened in that years SORC. I was just a kid went Imp was first sailing but those boats solidified my love of the sport. When I saw this thread it reminded me that there was aboat with a similar paint job up on the hard in Charleston. I went back to take a look and it was IMP. Here is a picture of her now. Looks like a new keel and rudder.

 

Matt DI ... can you send me that pic ? I do have several from the yard as Rumsey and I raced her in Charleston RW in 2009 and hope to again in 2011. thanks.. I like the photo and backdrop .. send as high res as possible as would love to use it in my slide show/ book read, best, Bill biobill@pacbell.net (ps story of keel and rudder change , indeed in the book!)

 

 

Bill

 

I just sent them there should be four. Hope you can make it out for CRW

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Bill....

 

Welcome aboard. Please review newbie status today and be prepare for a proper welcome tomorrow.

 

Can't wait to read your book.

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Epic story. One day we'll see some wild ocean racing circuits again, I'm convinced. It was just too cool not to come back.

 

 

So here is a question... what about that time made the ocean racing circuit "wild"? I was not following sailing at that point in my life, and I just wonder what was different back then other than the haircuts.

 

The reason I ask is because in some respects I feel like we have been living in some pretty interesting times for ocean racing in these past 5 + years and I wonder if 25 years from now we will be looking back at this time as halcyon days.

 

I can think of a few things that would make a particular window of time as memorable, but I just don't know if they apply, or how the times of the late 70's differ from those of today.

 


  •  
  • Boats: the boats of represented a quantum leap in design and speed and therefore captured interest. But the boats of the past 5 plus years have made similar advances.
  • Events: there was a good increase in the number and type of events, representing growth in the industry. But we have similar (or even the same) events these days. Stalwarts like Fastnet, Sidney Hobart, Newport Bermuda. And other events and formats that have grown in size and popularity since then such as the Vendee or the Figaro. Have we perhaps reached the point now where there are too many events, splitting participation and interest?
  • Participation levels: Were there more boats partcipating back then? Have the modern demands of time and money or even safety requirements and other hurdles reduced particpation? I know what the numbers look like these days, but what did they look like back then?
  • Personalities: Those days had interesting people, with interesting stories, and lots of shenanigans. Has the advent of Pro's and the growth of sailing and a racing as a career ended up homogenizing the participants?
  • Intrigue: For those who followed the sport, you had to wait until your monthly edition of Sail came out. It helped build anticipation. Has the ease by which we get information in the modern day made everything that much more familiar and therefore that much more banal?

 

I have no idea what the answers are, and the reality is that we might even be living in similarily interesting times and just not realize it by virtue of temporal proximity. But it sure seems like Imp was representative of a time in racing where lightening was captured in a bottle. And if we care about our sport, and want to see it thrive, the question would be how to catch that kind of wave again.

A part of what made it wild was that the sailing happened in places that other people didn't really go to - we had our way (good and bad) with the destinations. They have all changed dramatically since then, mostly for the worse, and that can never be regained.

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So here is a question... what about that time made the ocean racing circuit "wild"?

 

 

Along with the variety of 'characters', from the outlandish Ted Turner to the quiet and reclusive Ted Hood, you had designers out there trying all kinds of things.

 

Anyone remember the cat-ketch 'Cascade', MIT Dr. Jerome Milgrams boat from '73-'74 in the SORC? Was the same size as a one tonner back then (36' or so) but rated like a half tonner.

 

Britton Chance had some interesting boats like 'Equation', with the folding spreaders, and I think canting mizzen, to try and work on the effects of the mainmast in front of the mizzen.

 

You had 'conventional' boats like Kialoa, Sorcery, and others from the 'traditional design houses. You had a production boat win the SORC, probably for the last time, with the Ranger 37 'Minequita' against all the custom boats.

 

It was a unique time where the designers and the characters that were willing to follow their dream designs were breaking new ground in the era where the 'new' technology was getting closer around the corner. Add to that the vagaries of the IOR rule.

 

I wore-out the pages of any and all sailing rags of that period checking-out the boats of the day. Cut-out many a picture or photo ad and had a collage on my bedroom wall.

 

Technology has driven many of the boat designs into a corner of the design arena, with a few unique designs coming along every now and again, but with the plumb-bow, sprit, assym spins, long water-line, short overhang boats we have now they do not have the variety of 'experimentation' that was present at that time.

 

If those boats only sailed as smooth as the boats of today do.....................................

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Bill,

 

If you guys do Charleston RW next year, count me in. George has been completely incommunicado, but if you and Rumsey are up for it I'll be there to run the bow again.

 

RJ

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Photos are so retro, don't think they won the 79 Fastnet though, maybe they meant the 77 Fastnet

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Nice...

 

When is Sleddog's Book coming out ???

 

Yea, Sleddog, would love to see a great something something about WildFlower's travels, and Sleddog's entry into the best sport of all time...

 

Put me down for the advanced copy ;)

 

BTW, had a great PacCup this year, super fun on the good ship Cinnabar...

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So here is a question... what about that time made the ocean racing circuit "wild"?

 

 

Along with the variety of 'characters', from the outlandish Ted Turner to the quiet and reclusive Ted Hood, you had designers out there trying all kinds of things.

 

Anyone remember the cat-ketch 'Cascade', MIT Dr. Jerome Milgrams boat from '73-'74 in the SORC? Was the same size as a one tonner back then (36' or so) but rated like a half tonner.

 

Britton Chance had some interesting boats like 'Equation', with the folding spreaders, and I think canting mizzen, to try and work on the effects of the mainmast in front of the mizzen.

 

You had 'conventional' boats like Kialoa, Sorcery, and others from the 'traditional design houses. You had a production boat win the SORC, probably for the last time, with the Ranger 37 'Minequita' against all the custom boats.

 

It was a unique time where the designers and the characters that were willing to follow their dream designs were breaking new ground in the era where the 'new' technology was getting closer around the corner. Add to that the vagaries of the IOR rule.

 

I wore-out the pages of any and all sailing rags of that period checking-out the boats of the day. Cut-out many a picture or photo ad and had a collage on my bedroom wall.

 

Technology has driven many of the boat designs into a corner of the design arena, with a few unique designs coming along every now and again, but with the plumb-bow, sprit, assym spins, long water-line, short overhang boats we have now they do not have the variety of 'experimentation' that was present at that time.

 

If those boats only sailed as smooth as the boats of today do.....................................

 

HHN92 makes a lot of good points about those times. Plus the photos that came out were pure boat porn for a lot of us! But now boats primarily go w/l, there is no place to go below if you did a long distance race, and participation in many of the "traditional" races is down considerably from those days.

 

JM

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So here is a question... what about that time made the ocean racing circuit "wild"?

 

 

Along with the variety of 'characters', from the outlandish Ted Turner to the quiet and reclusive Ted Hood, you had designers out there trying all kinds of things.

 

Anyone remember the cat-ketch 'Cascade', MIT Dr. Jerome Milgrams boat from '73-'74 in the SORC? Was the same size as a one tonner back then (36' or so) but rated like a half tonner.

 

Britton Chance had some interesting boats like 'Equation', with the folding spreaders, and I think canting mizzen, to try and work on the effects of the mainmast in front of the mizzen.

 

You had 'conventional' boats like Kialoa, Sorcery, and others from the 'traditional design houses. You had a production boat win the SORC, probably for the last time, with the Ranger 37 'Minequita' against all the custom boats.

 

It was a unique time where the designers and the characters that were willing to follow their dream designs were breaking new ground in the era where the 'new' technology was getting closer around the corner. Add to that the vagaries of the IOR rule.

 

I wore-out the pages of any and all sailing rags of that period checking-out the boats of the day. Cut-out many a picture or photo ad and had a collage on my bedroom wall.

 

Technology has driven many of the boat designs into a corner of the design arena, with a few unique designs coming along every now and again, but with the plumb-bow, sprit, assym spins, long water-line, short overhang boats we have now they do not have the variety of 'experimentation' that was present at that time.

 

If those boats only sailed as smooth as the boats of today do.....................................

 

HHN92 makes a lot of good points about those times. Plus the photos that came out were pure boat porn for a lot of us! But now boats primarily go w/l, there is no place to go below if you did a long distance race, and participation in many of the "traditional" races is down considerably from those days.

 

JM

 

I concurr to most of the points;

 

Thinking back to those days:

 

- competitive racing was limited to a number of fixed and famous events, which any owner building a new boat had to attend.

- crews were spoiled, usually moving from season to season to the latest local build.

- once into the game you could go to any event reachable by train or car, hitch a ride and widen your contacts. It was a quite small community, in a few years you happened to meet, drink with, sail with a number of people from all-around the world, even those making the magazines front pages.

- people, at the age of crewing, were - because of the 70s - in a mood of freedom and adventure

- besides the boat-designs fast improvement, sailing techniques were also improving all the time adding excitement.

- adventure it was: dead-reckoning and goniometers, as the only way to navigate, meant you could catch up a number of boats at the mark, but also that you would only know upon arrival how you had done, having not seen some of your opponents for miles.

With everybody catching the mark on their GPS and electronic charts + sailing to the polars, the length of the race does not add anything anymore.

 

I don't think there is any way to re-create this atmosphere, as it was not possible then to re-create the 19th century sailing atmosphere, the current structure of the sport is born from those days and in tune with the current world, that's the way it is.

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I raced at the '77 SORC, in the "old boat" division".

 

Would like to add that for myself it was a great time. But was not that different than today in terms of yacht design and development. Also not that different in numbers, and types of yachts racing. Then as now, there was a lot of innovation, and enthusiasm.

Having just raced to Mackinac, I would say that with something like 268 boats competing, the participation in "ocean" races is not that bad these days.

What sets the old days apart for me were the characters and personalities involved. And the fact that the press wrote about the events with a somewhat better focus on who, what, where, rather than "milk toast" press releases.

The rowdy people and rowdy times were emphasized, rather than sanitized.

Back then enforcement of, law, rules, behavior, etc. was at a less advanced state, and that allowed for a bigger variation of what was acceptable activity.

Like punch ups at the bar...

And other stuff.

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bump

 

Awesome boat, fast & also beautiful (aren't all fast boats beautiful?) not just in comparison with the ugly ducklings of the era.

 

I sailed on a sistership, much later... one of the Swan 39s. Shoulda bought that boat :(

Guess buy the book instead

 

FB- Doug

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HHN92 makes a lot of good points about those times. Plus the photos that came out were pure boat porn for a lot of us! But now boats primarily go w/l, there is no place to go below if you did a long distance race, and participation in many of the "traditional" races is down considerably from those days.

JM

 

[hijack] ... there is a place to go down below if you race an IRC typeform boat, 70's Fastnets had around 300 entries, the same number as the race does today ... [/hijack]

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Can;t wait to get the book! Did 82 SORC on sistership "Flirt of Paget" with Shorty Trimmingham; great f-ing time! Also some time on the Holland "Infinity" with John and Tony et aux.

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Can;t wait to get the book! Did 82 SORC on sistership "Flirt of Paget" with Shorty Trimmingham; great f-ing time! Also some time on the Holland "Infinity" with John and Tony et aux.

The Holland jungle gym was Whipple (or maybe Knapp) - Tony was the Nelson's.

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Can;t wait to get the book! Did 82 SORC on sistership "Flirt of Paget" with Shorty Trimmingham; great f-ing time! Also some time on the Holland "Infinity" with John and Tony et aux.

The Holland jungle gym was Whipple (or maybe Knapp) - Tony was the Nelson's.

 

Don't forget about Mikey and Ralfie

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bump

 

Awesome boat, fast & also beautiful (aren't all fast boats beautiful?) not just in comparison with the ugly ducklings of the era.

 

I sailed on a sistership, much later... one of the Swan 39s. Shoulda bought that boat :(

Guess buy the book instead

 

FB- Doug

 

 

There are plenty of Swan 39's on the market right now. None are moving. Quit crying and go make an offer.

 

You might finish up :D

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Can;t wait to get the book! Did 82 SORC on sistership "Flirt of Paget" with Shorty Trimmingham; great f-ing time! Also some time on the Holland "Infinity" with John and Tony et aux.

The Holland jungle gym was Whipple (or maybe Knapp) - Tony was the Nelson's.

 

Don't forget about Mikey and Ralfie

Mikey was still sailing with DC and the cheaters. Ralfie hadn't yet been sold into the US.

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Can;t wait to get the book! Did 82 SORC on sistership "Flirt of Paget" with Shorty Trimmingham; great f-ing time! Also some time on the Holland "Infinity" with John and Tony et aux.

The Holland jungle gym was Whipple (or maybe Knapp) - Tony was the Nelson's.

 

Don't forget about Mikey and Ralfie

Mikey was still sailing with DC and the cheaters. Ralfie hadn't yet been sold into the US.

 

:lol:

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Can;t wait to get the book! Did 82 SORC on sistership "Flirt of Paget" with Shorty Trimmingham; great f-ing time! Also some time on the Holland "Infinity" with John and Tony et aux.

The Holland jungle gym was Whipple (or maybe Knapp) - Tony was the Nelson's.

 

Don't forget about Mikey and Ralfie

Mikey was still sailing with DC and the cheaters. Ralfie hadn't yet been sold into the US.

 

:lol:

OOh, and there's always Stretch. Last known sighting:

 

post-33230-021529400 1281451199_thumb.jpg

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Can;t wait to get the book! Did 82 SORC on sistership "Flirt of Paget" with Shorty Trimmingham; great f-ing time! Also some time on the Holland "Infinity" with John and Tony et aux.

The Holland jungle gym was Whipple (or maybe Knapp) - Tony was the Nelson's.

 

Don't forget about Mikey and Ralfie

Mikey was still sailing with DC and the cheaters. Ralfie hadn't yet been sold into the US.

 

LOL!!! Did Bermuda in 82 on Flyway, ex-Williwaw of the lead shot in the spreaders fame! The BN took the bullet for DC and the team.

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I thought there were weight limits on a 40?

 

Actually, they needed all the weight they could muster - on the transom to keep the rudder in the water. Stretch was a svelt young bugger though, if that is what you were referring to. I crewed for him in Penguins. Of course he made weight for Courageous as well.

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bump

 

Awesome boat, fast & also beautiful (aren't all fast boats beautiful?) not just in comparison with the ugly ducklings of the era.

 

I sailed on a sistership, much later... one of the Swan 39s. Shoulda bought that boat :(

Guess buy the book instead

 

FB- Doug

 

 

There are plenty of Swan 39's on the market right now. None are moving. Quit crying and go make an offer.

 

You might finish up :D

How come no one's pointed out there's a Swan 39 in the classifieds? Seller tries to blur the distinction between this boat and the actual Imp. And it takes some special chutzpah to suggest the boat should command $90k.

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Can;t wait to get the book! Did 82 SORC on sistership "Flirt of Paget" with Shorty Trimmingham; great f-ing time! Also some time on the Holland "Infinity" with John and Tony et aux.

 

Have the book with the signature... I bought Flirt of Paget in December 2007 and she has been on the water one summer in Sweden since then. She is now indoor for a major revamp of entire yacht, finished painting of here old Stern spars last weekend and are now installing new tanks. I will add photos the next few days of the work. I am interested to learn more from old crew and also if you have photos and or other information about Flirt´s glory days. Rgds Lars

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In the chapter on the 1977 Fastnet, (the drifter) they talk about Ragnar swapping the port and stbd bow lights one very slow night to trick a nearby competitor in to thinking they tacked. The competitor tacks away to 'cover' them.

 

What do you think?

 

A bit of a cheeky manouver? <_<

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In the chapter on the 1977 Fastnet, (the drifter) they talk about Ragnar swapping the port and stbd bow lights one very slow night to trick a nearby competitor in to thinking they tacked. The competitor tacks away to 'cover' them.

 

What do you think?

 

A bit of a cheeky manouver? <_<

Only a wasp would do that

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In the chapter on the 1977 Fastnet, (the drifter) they talk about Ragnar swapping the port and stbd bow lights one very slow night to trick a nearby competitor in to thinking they tacked. The competitor tacks away to 'cover' them.

 

What do you think?

 

A bit of a cheeky manouver? <_<

Only a wasp would do that

 

LMAO

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In the chapter on the 1977 Fastnet, (the drifter) they talk about Ragnar swapping the port and stbd bow lights one very slow night to trick a nearby competitor in to thinking they tacked. The competitor tacks away to 'cover' them.

 

What do you think?

 

A bit of a cheeky manouver? <_<

Only a wasp would do that

 

LMAO

 

If my bowman started unscrewing bow lights and swapping them around I think I would tell him its time to go below and take a nap.

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In the chapter on the 1977 Fastnet, (the drifter) they talk about Ragnar swapping the port and stbd bow lights one very slow night to trick a nearby competitor in to thinking they tacked. The competitor tacks away to 'cover' them.

 

What do you think?

 

A bit of a cheeky manouver? <_<

Only a wasp would do that

 

LMAO

 

If my bowman started unscrewing bow lights and swapping them around I think I would tell him its time to go below and take a nap.

You my friend are a upstanding citizen.

Me on the other hand just don't do night races.

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More than one boat racing back in those days based out of New Orleans had a rheostat on their running lights!

 

Yes but as far as I know a rheostat in the western hemisphere dosn't turn red lights green.

Actually surprised they admitted doing that

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Actually surprised they admitted doing that

Admitted fudging a lighting requirement?

 

Hell, there are admissions of international felonies in that book! :lol:

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bump, Just saw IMP this past weekend. Still on the hard in the same pic as above, and needing a little TLC. the fenders hanging off the sides are wearing a hole in the hull! :unsure:

 

Who owns the boat now??? She needs a little love??!?!? :wub:

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bump, Just saw IMP this past weekend. Still on the hard in the same pic as above, and needing a little TLC. the fenders hanging off the sides are wearing a hole in the hull! :unsure:

 

Who owns the boat now??? She needs a little love??!?!? :wub:

 

 

pretty sure she is still owned by George Radley of co. cork ireland. he has quiet a fleet of boats or at least he did . sad to hear she is looking tired what a great boat and history. where did you see her ?? any pics

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Yeah HB, 'dem's da rules....pic's or......

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Yeah HB, 'dem's da rules....pic's or......

 

She's still sitting in the exact same spot in the yard as the picture on the first page of the post.

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I might have to go to Glandore next week with work, will have a root around for IMP if I'm there..

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More than one boat racing back in those days based out of New Orleans had a rheostat on their running lights!

 

Yes but as far as I know a rheostat in the western hemisphere dosn't turn red lights green.

Actually surprised they admitted doing that

 

Just switch the lens covers. That always was a great way to amuse yourself at three in the AM on the Ensenada Race.

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