Editor

J/111 Goes Sailing...

Recommended Posts

Peter, cool dodger. What is it made of? What gives it stiffness and who made it? I want one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peter, cool dodger. What is it made of? What gives it stiffness and who made it? I want one.

 

:D I made it myself. It's made of two layers of camping sleeping mat, glued together plus a soft batten at the back to give some extra stiffness. Covered in canvas and made to slide back and forth over the companionway. Easily removed and stored flat.

 

More photos: https://www.facebook.com/BlurSailingTeam/posts/10153090619850677

 

Bonus: muffles all sound, so it gets really quiet down below.

 

Actually I'm meeting with a Danish company that's interested in producing some. Stay tuned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peter, I've stared and stared at your pictures of your spray dodger and can't figure it out. It what way are the two camping mats glued together? Face to face, end to end, or side to side? It looks like a single sheet, perhaps double thickness, but where do you get a camping mat that is both wide enough and long enough? What I find are long, but not very wide. Like 2m x .6m or something like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peter, I've stared and stared at your pictures of your spray dodger and can't figure it out. It what way are the two camping mats glued together? Face to face, end to end, or side to side? It looks like a single sheet, perhaps double thickness, but where do you get a camping mat that is both wide enough and long enough? What I find are long, but not very wide. Like 2m x .6m or something like that.

 

I think I had 4 mats, 2 layers in "opposite direction" to get 1.2 x 1.2 meter, glue together with sika to get double thickness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks blursailing - these guys provide some of the best sailing vids anywhere! I only wish I could figure out how they get some of their shots...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks blursailing - these guys provide some of the best sailing vids anywhere! I only wish I could figure out how they get some of their shots...

 

Thanks. My crew complains about my double duty as media man, but when it's -10 and snowstorm outside we're pretty happy we put in the effort.

 

We use a "poor man's drone" i e a 5 m long carbon stick made out of two shorter ones. Works great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Thanks blursailing - these guys provide some of the best sailing vids anywhere! I only wish I could figure out how they get some of their shots...

 

Thanks. My crew complains about my double duty as media man, but when it's -10 and snowstorm outside we're pretty happy we put in the effort.

 

We use a "poor man's drone" i e a 5 m long carbon stick made out of two shorter ones. Works great.

It appears you often use the head strap also. But your "storyboard," editing, effects are very professional too. Great stuff...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Peter,

question regarding your sails: why is the staysail so high above deck? Although it doesn't make much sense do design it as a deck sweeper yours seems to be extremely high above deck (higher than what I have seen on other boats).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Peter,

question regarding your sails: why is the staysail so high above deck? Although it doesn't make much sense do design it as a deck sweeper yours seems to be extremely high above deck (higher than what I have seen on other boats).

 

This was just a temporary solution with a a dyneema bridle to try out the correct tack point.

 

We did lots of work with the staysail on the J/109, and got it very efficient in most conditions.

 

With the same setup on the J/111 we got almost no effect. So we've been trying several different tack points, ending up quite far aft. The main effect of the staysail is to increase the flow on the the back of the main, and the bigger STL on the J/111 make the geometry quite different compared to most boats.

 

You can see the same thing on Comanche and other bigger boats, where the staysail ends up very close to the mast.

 

Now we're getting ~1.5% speed increase in many conditions, so worth the effort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So the bulkhead aft of the anchor locker is too much forward as tacking point for the staysail?

What size of staysail did you use and on which TWA and in combination with which gennaker?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ZeeZee, we started out at this point but ended up about a meter further aft.

 

The staysail is just 23 m2 so a bit small to work as a windseeker. Maximizing area isn't very important for a staysail, but rather how it fits within the geometry. Now we use it from 6-8 knots up to planing mode when we usually let the jib stay up). So far we've got it to work in TWA 135-160 with positive effect in combo with both A2 and A3 as long as it doesn't cause trouble for the trimmer.

 

Depending how much rating hit you get, it may be worth the 1-1.5% speed increase.

 

One backside offshore is that it needs to be trimmed with the chute if you want to stay at 100%, requiring five active people (chute*2, staysail, main, driver) which is tough over a long period of time.

 

The plan for 2016 is to evaluate the storm jib in combination with A5 and C0.

 

We're also getting a new "J0". A 44 m2 (30% bigger than a J1) code, flat as a jib, tacked to the sprit and sheeted at the jib-track (w infuckers). Should be a weapon in the light Scandinavian summer :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So not easy to make a solid tack fixing point 1 meter aft of the anchor locker I guess.

 

I'm looking forward to go out and try my new 55% Code-0 and a new J4 as soon as the boat splashes in spring again. Need to experiment with keeping the jib up/down when the genny is up. Maybe try the J4 as staysail. Size is 22m2, but geometry and to heavy fabric may be an issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blur does your J4 still hoist on a furling stay? Also how will your J0 be affected by the pulpit and guard wires?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blur does your J4 still hoist on a furling stay? Also how will your J0 be affected by the pulpit and guard wires?

 

We ended up with two different jibs; one J3.5 (ISAF OSR Heavy Weather Jib) for fully crewed racing, flat w reef. Usable fron 18 knots to survival conditions. Runs in tuff-luff w horizontal battens (or could run on standard furler with furling battens).

 

Then another for solo/double-handed racing. Same size but more shape. Works from 8 knots and up. With similar reef, that usually goes in at ~20 knots. This one is on soft hanks on a bare forestay.

 

The J0 will have to go over the lifelines. We'll see how that looks. Priority is area and ability to get it sheeted for upwind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have soft hanks on al my headsails. Works great, especially when short handed. You can have proper horizontal battens and there is no fear of the jib blowing from the deck when doused for a gennaker leg.

I never used the furler. Just sold the entire package and when handing over the boxes to the new owner I only realized how heavy this stuff all is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some downwind action from the 350' ÅF Offshore Race (formerly known as Around Gotland).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The J just does not do it for me, out of date design and deck layout. but saying that there are happy owners . The French are at the top of there game that's what I chose to sail on . I do not get why a sub 40 ft yacht has a wheel at the back of the boat taking all the space up and all that weight? I have often thought that people who sail J's wear ties. Hay Ho enjoy your plastic tub.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The J just does not do it for me, out of date design and deck layout. but saying that there are happy owners . The French are at the top of there game that's what I chose to sail on . I do not get why a sub 40 ft yacht has a wheel at the back of the boat taking all the space up and all that weight? I have often thought that people who sail J's wear ties. Hay Ho enjoy your plastic tub.

I have to agree with you on the fact that it is an out date design, however I think it offers a unique sailing experience. I race a J88 and it is indeed an out date design, max beam in the centre, L shaped keel (albeit a fabricated fin) and almost straight transom hung rudder, it is quite tender going upwind, the narrow beam and narrow transom means it heels quickly and doesn't always accelerate but there's something a bit numb about sailing a wider beamy boat especially upwind, I quite like it that the boat is twitchy, it's easier to find good balance. Their old fashioned flaws can be enjoyable, a bit like a Porsche 911, (very) outdated concept but it has been made to work and the results aren't bad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The J just does not do it for me, out of date design and deck layout. but saying that there are happy owners . The French are at the top of there game that's what I chose to sail on . I do not get why a sub 40 ft yacht has a wheel at the back of the boat taking all the space up and all that weight? I have often thought that people who sail J's wear ties. Hay Ho enjoy your plastic tub.

 

 

Horses for courses. In the last year we've raced the JPK 10.10, 10.80, 38 and the SunFast 3600. Also some of my crew sails on some of those designs. All examples of the "modern French IRC designs"; and naturally we enjoy different conditions.

 

If you race in locations where you typically get >12 knots of wind and lots of close reaces or heavy weather upwind work I'll take one of those any day. Or rather a Class 40, that I've also sailed.

 

But in Scandinavia many races are decided in light winds at night or in patchy archipelago conditions, and there we just smoke the "fatter" designs. To be able to beat modern 40-footers on the water both in 3-4 knots of wind as well as do 22 knots downwind in a blow is pretty unique. And naturally come's with some weaknesses :-)

 

On the wheel, it's a common choice for serious downwind legs offshore. Not unique to J. Personally I like it - especially shorthanded where I spend much time steering.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same over here in south europe (northern adriatic sea)...Js are real all-around boats that beat modern state-of-the-art fat asses more often than not

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have often thought this category of yacht is trying to do to many things, is it a racer or cruiser , single double handed or crewed . Nice but there is always a trade off. I myself like 5 up and two up sailing offshore in big seas. The designs are getting close but the interior and deck lay outs are still let down. Ideal boat would be no interior pipe cots, twin tiller , 5 or two handed sailing, two handed or single handed deck layout. LOA 30ft . Is there a yacht out there ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IRC short handed boats have more interior, but maybe can have pipecots added aft. JPK 1010 or 1080, Sunfast 3200 or 3600, Ofcet 32.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have often thought this category of yacht is trying to do to many things, is it a racer or cruiser , single double handed or crewed . Nice but there is always a trade off. I myself like 5 up and two up sailing offshore in big seas. The designs are getting close but the interior and deck lay outs are still let down. Ideal boat would be no interior pipe cots, twin tiller , 5 or two handed sailing, two handed or single handed deck layout. LOA 30ft . Is there a yacht out there ?

 

I think that the boat that you are describing is the J11s...

http://www.keyyachting.com/j-boats/j11s/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I have often thought this category of yacht is trying to do to many things, is it a racer or cruiser , single double handed or crewed . Nice but there is always a trade off. I myself like 5 up and two up sailing offshore in big seas. The designs are getting close but the interior and deck lay outs are still let down. Ideal boat would be no interior pipe cots, twin tiller , 5 or two handed sailing, two handed or single handed deck layout. LOA 30ft . Is there a yacht out there ?

I think that the boat that you are describing is the J11s...

http://www.keyyachting.com/j-boats/j11s/

 

Tried a J11s no thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IRC short handed boats have more interior, but maybe can have pipecots added aft. JPK 1010 or 1080, Sunfast 3200 or 3600, Ofcet 32.

I will look at the Ofcet 32 when its built and more details come online .Thanks for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

IRC short handed boats have more interior, but maybe can have pipecots added aft. JPK 1010 or 1080, Sunfast 3200 or 3600, Ofcet 32.

I will look at the Ofcet 32 when its built and more details come online .Thanks for that.

 

Shaw 9, Shaw 10, Shaw 11 or a comparable Elliott.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

IRC short handed boats have more interior, but maybe can have pipecots added aft. JPK 1010 or 1080, Sunfast 3200 or 3600, Ofcet 32.

I will look at the Ofcet 32 when its built and more details come online .Thanks for that.

 

Shaw 9, Shaw 10, Shaw 11 or a comparable Elliott.

 

Had a look at them, look good . My problem is I do not want to do 6 7 knots up wind , done that and I get bored quickly. I will be looking for a 28 30 ft cat. that can go offshore with minimum faf below . Crew 3 or 4 . Thanks for the feedback . Have a fab week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The J just does not do it for me, out of date design and deck layout. but saying that there are happy owners . The French are at the top of there game that's what I chose to sail on . I do not get why a sub 40 ft yacht has a wheel at the back of the boat taking all the space up and all that weight? I have often thought that people who sail J's wear ties. Hay Ho enjoy your plastic tub.

 

 

Horses for courses. In the last year we've raced the JPK 10.10, 10.80, 38 and the SunFast 3600. Also some of my crew sails on some of those designs. All examples of the "modern French IRC designs"; and naturally we enjoy different conditions.

 

If you race in locations where you typically get >12 knots of wind and lots of close reaces or heavy weather upwind work I'll take one of those any day. Or rather a Class 40, that I've also sailed.

 

But in Scandinavia many races are decided in light winds at night or in patchy archipelago conditions, and there we just smoke the "fatter" designs. To be able to beat modern 40-footers on the water both in 3-4 knots of wind as well as do 22 knots downwind in a blow is pretty unique. And naturally come's with some weaknesses :-)

 

On the wheel, it's a common choice for serious downwind legs offshore. Not unique to J. Personally I like it - especially shorthanded where I spend much time steering.

 

 

 

Indeed, horses for courses.

And in addition to that: be honest on what course you are on most of the time! When watching some Vendee Globe action on YouTube, we all dream of 20+ knots of wind with 20+ knots of boat speed downwind rides. Unfortunately this may not be reality for many of us. In practice we might see many light wind days with some substantial upwind legs. So we probably better of choosing a horse that masters that.

Some other might be lucky to get these ideal downwind conditions often and they will choose their horse accordingly. The same is true for making the trade off between a boat setup for racing, cruising or any compromise in between.

In the end nothing is worse than having the wrong horse at hand during most of the time you spend on the water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re the discussion above...

 

Double-handed J/111 almost 5% faster around the course than a fully crewed SunFast 3600. 70% reaching in TWA 70-120 under white sails in 20-38 knots of wind. Sketchy at times :-)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The J/111 Perseverance (owned by Bennet Greenwald) won the Verve Cup overall trophy this year. First time a J/111 ever did that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re the discussion above...

 

Double-handed J/111 almost 5% faster around the course than a fully crewed SunFast 3600. 70% reaching in TWA 70-120 under white sails in 20-38 knots of wind. Sketchy at times :-)

 

 

I would hate to buy one of your boats used, you wear those things out!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Re the discussion above...

 

Double-handed J/111 almost 5% faster around the course than a fully crewed SunFast 3600. 70% reaching in TWA 70-120 under white sails in 20-38 knots of wind. Sketchy at times :-)

 

 

I would hate to buy one of your boats used, you wear those things out!

 

 

 

Some things are meant to be used. Hard. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as you don't put them away wet.

 

What's your rating compared to the 3600 and 1080?

 

 

Fresh water wipe off + complete dry out after every race/practice. Proactive maintenance is a big part of winning races. ZERO breakages during racing for the last two seasons (including Fastnet) :D

 

Locally we rate 3.3-4.2% faster than the 3600 = fair

In IRC (Fastnet) we rated 5-6.7% faster than the 3600/10.80 = tough

 

But we're not "IRC optimized" but set up for maximum performance in light air with OD main + max sprit + 157 m2 gennaker + big code 0. If optimized, the difference would be 2-5% and outcome muche dependent on the conditions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re the discussion above...

 

Double-handed J/111 almost 5% faster around the course than a fully crewed SunFast 3600. 70% reaching in TWA 70-120 under white sails in 20-38 knots of wind. Sketchy at times :-)

 

 

Thats awesome man!! Haha...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone done a double-ended boom vang setup?  If so, any pics would be appreciated.  

Hrothgar

Variance USA 100

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, hrothgar said:

Has anyone done a double-ended boom vang setup?  If so, any pics would be appreciated.  

Hrothgar

Variance USA 100

Should be pretty straight forward. Install one of these: http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?id=5049&taxid=375 on each side of the cabin top. Run a continuous line through the vang.. This is what we have on the 125 and I assume a similar solution could be achieved. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/31/2017 at 4:31 PM, Sarcoma said:

Should be pretty straight forward. Install one of these: http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?id=5049&taxid=375 on each side of the cabin top. Run a continuous line through the vang.. This is what we have on the 125 and I assume a similar solution could be achieved. 

Thats the direction we are headed.  Thanks.

Hroth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/31/2017 at 9:30 AM, hrothgar said:

Has anyone done a double-ended boom vang setup?  If so, any pics would be appreciated.  

Hrothgar

Variance USA 100

Freedom (ex British Solider) came over with a double ended set up.  However it's not to either side of the cabin top. One end is lead to the port cabin top and the other comes out the bottom of the vang like a traditional set up.  I'll snap some pics the next time I'm out there.

All in all we like the set up and see no reason to change it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-05-31 at 3:30 PM, hrothgar said:

Has anyone done a double-ended boom vang setup?  If so, any pics would be appreciated.  

Hrothgar

Variance USA 100

 
 

On Blur we go directly from the vang to each side., Red line w Spinlock PXR Cam Cleats on each side.

blur_offshore15-4.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Blur solution works well.  Add a second cascade at vang with low friction Ring (to get the block loads down). Dead-end above triple (see pic).  Then to a Harken 40mm T2 double,  make the triple from three 40mm Carbo singles (use the Jboat original bullet block SS base so the blocks swivel).   Much quicker reaction to "VANG OFF" events now. :blink:

 

Vang2.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our setup is done.  I will take some pics and post them.  Similar but not identical to what you all are talking about.

Hroth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm looking for J111 polar tables in a form I can load on our bandg Hercules 5000 system.  

And thank you Blur for the many ours of entertainment/instruction for getting our boat going.  After 2 seasons we finally got big wind in the thirty's, and planed at 18 knots Sog. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-07-16 at 9:32 AM, jacksparrow said:

I'm looking for J111 polar tables in a form I can load on our bandg Hercules 5000 system.  

And thank you Blur for the many ours of entertainment/instruction for getting our boat going.  After 2 seasons we finally got big wind in the thirty's, and planed at 18 knots Sog. 

Thanks :) Next up 20 knots...

I have several polars in Expedition format, but these need to be reformatted in Excel to fit into H5000 that have a slightly differenmt syntax.

I'm guessing you're in OD konfig?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/19/2017 at 0:42 PM, Blur said:

Thanks :) Next up 20 knots...

I have several polars in Expedition format, but these need to be reformatted in Excel to fit into H5000 that have a slightly differenmt syntax.

I'm guessing you're in OD konfig?

yes, race in phrf but pretty much in od config.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More stupid (?) stuff.  Sometime I like to go daysailing with my wife on our 111.  Other times we are delivering long distances.  In both cases, we can't for the life of us get the furling jib to unfuck itself.  What is happening is the halyard attached to the top drum is wrapping around the forestay, effectively jamming the whole thing up.  I like the idea of the furler for both day sailing, crusing and deliveries.  We don't use it for racing so not an issue there.  My assumption is that the top drum is fubar as it won't spin except under extreme load.  Any advice would be welcome.  We have the standard Facnor system.

Hroth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-08-29 at 2:25 PM, hrothgar said:

More stupid (?) stuff.  Sometime I like to go daysailing with my wife on our 111.  Other times we are delivering long distances.  In both cases, we can't for the life of us get the furling jib to unfuck itself.  What is happening is the halyard attached to the top drum is wrapping around the forestay, effectively jamming the whole thing up.  I like the idea of the furler for both day sailing, crusing and deliveries.  We don't use it for racing so not an issue there.  My assumption is that the top drum is fubar as it won't spin except under extreme load.  Any advice would be welcome.  We have the standard Facnor system.

Hroth

My guess is that the angle between the forestay and the halyard is to small (ie top swivel too far down). Try a lashing between the sail and the swivel to get it as high as possible to avoid the situation described.

halyard%20wrap.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

On 8/30/2017 at 3:38 PM, Blur said:

My guess is that the angle between the forestay and the halyard is to small (ie top swivel too far down). Try a lashing between the sail and the swivel to get it as high as possible to avoid the situation described.

halyard%20wrap.jpg

We have had the same problem numerous times while racing.  We discovered that if we leave some backstay on we are usually fine.  occasionally we have to overtension the halyard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, jacksparrow said:

 

 

We have had the same problem numerous times while racing.  We discovered that if we leave some backstay on we are usually fine.  occasionally we have to overtension the halyard.

If you brought a high quality furler in the first place tgen youd find they come with a deviation block!!

Www.almasts.com.au

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-09-08 at 1:13 PM, mezaire said:

If you brought a high quality furler in the first place tgen youd find they come with a deviation block!!

Www.almasts.com.au

There's nothing wrong with the Facnor furler. Or quality. It's preferred gear (together with Karver) for Thomas Coville and most IMNOCA-sailors, so I'm pretty sure it's good enough for the rest of us :)

If setup correctly it works very well, even without backstay tension.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blur, how concerned are you about the rudder failures that other 111's have had in heavy air conditions? Django in New Zealand, Santa Barbara CA boat,  and 65 Red Roses up in Vancouver Canada are the three I am most familiar with. 

Curious to see if you have done anything preventative..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 3:48 PM, Blur said:

Does anyone know if there is a mandatory service after 12.000 nm?

blur-12000nm.jpg

Maybe an oil change and rotate the...something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎11‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 7:58 PM, ASP said:

Blur, how concerned are you about the rudder failures that other 111's have had in heavy air conditions? Django in New Zealand, Santa Barbara CA boat,  and 65 Red Roses up in Vancouver Canada are the three I am most familiar with. 

Curious to see if you have done anything preventative..

Don't forget the boat that did the Newport Bermuda race, Eagle's Date I think.  Though they modified that boat a lot so not sure the rudder / stock wasn't new.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-11-26 at 1:58 AM, ASP said:

Blur, how concerned are you about the rudder failures that other 111's have had in heavy air conditions? Django in New Zealand, Santa Barbara CA boat,  and 65 Red Roses up in Vancouver Canada are the three I am most familiar with. 

Curious to see if you have done anything preventative..

Talked to most of them and had the rudder out for a check in 2015. Also this winter, when we're replacing the rudder bearings (a common mod for the Euro boats for less friction). So not worried!

I lashed a carbon plate on top of the shaft so it can't fall out even if everything goes loose. Probably overkill, but that's a common theme on Blur :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Blur said:

Talked to most of them and had the rudder out for a check in 2015. Also this winter, when we're replacing the rudder bearings (a common mod for the Euro boats for less friction). So not worried!

I lashed a carbon plate on top of the shaft so it can't fall out even if everything goes loose. Probably overkill, but that's a common theme on Blur :)

Peter,

Have you had or heard of issues where the steering cables come loose and fall off?  It seems that the factory cable is too fat and can get bumped out of the groove.  The owner and crew are looking at replacing with thinner dyneema rope.

Also I'm interested in pics of this carbon plate mod you speak of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, glexpress said:

Peter,

Have you had or heard of issues where the steering cables come loose and fall off?  It seems that the factory cable is too fat and can get bumped out of the groove.  The owner and crew are looking at replacing with thinner dyneema rope.

Also I'm interested in pics of this carbon plate mod you speak of.

Not heard of this? Is this on euro boats? Mine seems fine... I have thought about Dyneema, for weight saving, bud decided not to push it...

Carbon plate larger than hole + small hole in the middle + lashing = 

carbonrudderplate.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In steering cables the difference between tight and loose is but a couple of millimeters on the adjustment screw. I use Vectran. Zero creep is better than "virtually no creep" as far as surprise loss of steering goes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Blur said:

Not heard of this? Is this on euro boats? Mine seems fine... I have thought about Dyneema, for weight saving, bud decided not to push it...

Carbon plate larger than hole + small hole in the middle + lashing = 

carbonrudderplate.jpg

Freedom, Hull #84.  It's a french build, when Coop (the owner) had the survey done in the UK it pointed to an issue where the cable on the ends was coming in contact with the posts and starting to damage.  We suspect that's what started to loosen the cables.

We had the cables come off once in a club race over the summer, which we attributed to that issue as well as the helmsman "barn dooring" and sculling the rudder in a light air start.   I would say that's mostly operator error, the thin profile rudders don't react like those on older, heavier displacement boats.  There's a lot of old muscle memory to fight against.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, glexpress said:

Freedom, Hull #84.  It's a french build, when Coop (the owner) had the survey done in the UK it pointed to an issue where the cable on the ends was coming in contact with the posts and starting to damage.  We suspect that's what started to loosen the cables.

We had the cables come off once in a club race over the summer, which we attributed to that issue as well as the helmsman "barn dooring" and sculling the rudder in a light air start.   I would say that's mostly operator error, the thin profile rudders don't react like those on older, heavier displacement boats.  There's a lot of old muscle memory to fight against.

I've heard of issues, but my understanding that cables were mounted wrong and not aligned. With proper tension, I have a hard time seeing cables coming off, and I have no wear on the quadrant except in the groove. Also, we go through the cables before any major offshore event.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can confirm:  with the proper tension on the cables the wheel is turning very smoothly and there absolutely no way the cables wil ever come off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2016-08-17 at 3:19 AM, ~HHN92~ said:

I would hate to buy one of your boats used, you wear those things out!

 

The plan for 2018 is to get the boat to the Med (probably w Sevenstar) for the Rolex Middle Sea Race - so even more assault...

But we also stay ahead on maintenance. This winter = new electronics, new rudder bearings + steering renovation, rebuilding boom & vang, new jib tracks, interior repaint + much more. Zero breakages also win races :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The team will be out at the boat this weekend doing some sanding, maybe I'll climb up and check the tension.  Admittedly I haven't looked nor dealt with the cables coming off when they did.  I was busy fetching an emergency tiller and making sure the crew kept still.  The incident happened right after the starting gun and we had lots of boats around us.  Fortunately the boat kept it's balance and didn't turn before we deployed the emergency tiller.

 

Regarding worn out boats.  Hull 84, ex British Solider might be an example of one the most (if not the most) heavily used J111's out there.   Obviously most of the sails were useless.  We're also finally getting around to sanding and painting the bottom this winter.  But by and large the bones of the boat are in good shape.  With new sails, a fresh bottom and a properly stepped mast next year we expect to perform better.

 

7 minutes ago, Blur said:

The plan for 2018 is to get the boat to the Med (probably w Sevenstar) for the Rolex Middle Sea Race - so even more assault...

But we also stay ahead on maintenance. This winter = new rudder bearings, new electronics, rebuilding boom & vang, new jib tracks, interior repaint + much more. Zero breakages also win races :)

Peter,

If I may ask what electronics are you upgrading to?

Edit:  Also what are you painting down below?  Are you getting rid of the head liner?

The head liner is my biggest gripe of the European built boats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, glexpress said:

If I may ask what electronics are you upgrading to?

Edit:  Also what are you painting down below?  Are you getting rid of the head liner?

The head liner is my biggest gripe of the European built boats.

2
2
2

Electronics setup not official yet. Stay tuned.

Down below we're refreshing most of the painted spaces in the bow and under/behind all floorboards/bunks. Goot to keep it fresh & clean. Keeping the headliner for now as kind of like the cozy interior :) Priorities may change...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The headliner not only looks nice, but also prevents your head being scratched badly on the bolds sticking out of the roof. So also when you are racing only this thing may be a necessity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, ZeeZee said:

The headliner not only looks nice, but also prevents your head being scratched badly on the bolds sticking out of the roof. So also when you are racing only this thing may be a necessity.

On my Express 27 we use barrel nuts to remedy that issue.  More steps are involved in bedding and making sure the screw is a precise length, but it's clean and flat. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally had the chance to see the J111 in person here at the St. Pete NOOD's. Sweet looking boat and full praise from the owner and crew who were kind enough to let me step on-board and take a look. Depth challenges with Tampa Bay is the only drawback but we have dealt with 7.5" draft before, sure would be fun to try it again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Blur said:

 

Another excellent video Blur!

 

Flashbacks of when the owner of Freedom gave me the keys to the boat for last Tuesday night's race, sadly we didn't get to enjoy downwind angles quite as long. :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question -- Why in all of these heavy air videos is everyone sailing with the vang on so tight?  On the 125 we basically run with no vang on 90% of the time,   inshore we only put a little on to help in jibes otherwise its off.   This opens up the top of the main and lets you get the main sheet in more.   With the main trimmed in more the slot between the kite and the main is wide open, this is our planing set up.   We use the main trim to keep the helm honest and low, if we are sailing too high we bring on more main and head down to get back to 6 to 8 degrees of heel.   We always sail with some heel, the boat never is flat and never rocks to weather once we can plan.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, IMR said:

Question -- Why in all of these heavy air videos is everyone sailing with the vang on so tight?  On the 125 we basically run with no vang on 90% of the time,   inshore we only put a little on to help in jibes otherwise its off.   This opens up the top of the main and lets you get the main sheet in more.   With the main trimmed in more there slot between the kite and the main is wide open, this is our planing set up.   We use the main trim to keep the helm honest and low, if we are sailing too high we bring on more main and head down to get back to 6 to 8 degrees of heel.   We always sail with some heel, the boat never is flat and never rocks to weather once we can plan.    

The handful of times we had breeze on when going downwind on Freedom we HAD to have vang off, especially when doing hotter downwind angles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems like the vang is a very different tool for roachy or square head mains (controls power) than it is for a pinhead (just for control of the boom).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, nroose said:

Seems like the vang is a very different tool for roachy or square head mains (controls power) than it is for a pinhead (just for control of the boom).

125's have very pinheady mains...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, IMR said:

Question -- Why in all of these heavy air videos is everyone sailing with the vang on so tight?  On the 125 we basically run with no vang on 90% of the time,   inshore we only put a little on to help in jibes otherwise its off.   This opens up the top of the main and lets you get the main sheet in more.   With the main trimmed in more the slot between the kite and the main is wide open, this is our planing set up.   We use the main trim to keep the helm honest and low, if we are sailing too high we bring on more main and head down to get back to 6 to 8 degrees of heel.   We always sail with some heel, the boat never is flat and never rocks to weather once we can plan.    

We keep it pretty loose when planing (first half in the vid above, it's barely on). 

Also on the 111 it's very easy to invert the top and break the top batten (against the V1) if you don't control the top. So that might be one reason some have it a bit tighter.

Comparing with the J/125, the 111 doesn't have much stability and it's easy to get overpowered it you head up for speed. Above 24 knots of wind, we're pretty much stuck on TWA 150 and have to work with that. Talking to people sailing 125 (or Melges 32) there seems to be a higher/faster mode that doesn't exist on a cruiser like the 111 :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites