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J/111 Goes Sailing...

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J111 Recon wins Round the County Overall for the second year in a row...

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Two J/111's headed to the Salish Sea this month.  Eagles Dare (fka Invisible Hand, Hull #4, I believe) from the East Coast and we are finalizing the paperwork on Hull #94, currently in SF Bay.  Hope to have the boat in Seattle in the next 1-2 weeks and ready to race the Patos Island Race at the end of the month, then Southern Straits, Race to the Straits, and possibly Swiftsure.  

A few interesting "facts":

There are something close to 140 J/111's, most of them built between 2010 and 2015.  That's seems like a pretty good run for the price and period.  

There are/were 10 J/111's on yachtworld recently and 6 of them were sale pending.  Ours never made it to yachtworld.  I know 2 in the SF Bay area sold in less than 2 weeks.  

My wife & I are very excited about the new boat.  We hope/think it will fit very well with the type of sailing that we do in the area we sail.  It took a long time to arrive at this decision, but that means our J/120, Shearwater is for sale (and that's all I'm going to say about that, here).

 

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Good luck with the new boat.  I hope someone scoops up Shearwater, she's a great boat, and you've kept her in great shape!

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Congrats. You will not regret the decision.

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seems an excellent choice for you - enjoy it!

(if you put a 120 and a schumacher 28 in a blender you might just get something like a 111 out of it!)

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On 3/8/2020 at 7:44 PM, Roleur said:

Two J/111's headed to the Salish Sea this month.  Eagles Dare (fka Invisible Hand, Hull #4, I believe) from the East Coast and we are finalizing the paperwork on Hull #94, currently in SF Bay.  Hope to have the boat in Seattle in the next 1-2 weeks and ready to race the Patos Island Race at the end of the month, then Southern Straits, Race to the Straits, and possibly Swiftsure.  

A few interesting "facts":

There are something close to 140 J/111's, most of them built between 2010 and 2015.  That's seems like a pretty good run for the price and period.  

There are/were 10 J/111's on yachtworld recently and 6 of them were sale pending.  Ours never made it to yachtworld.  I know 2 in the SF Bay area sold in less than 2 weeks.  

My wife & I are very excited about the new boat.  We hope/think it will fit very well with the type of sailing that we do in the area we sail.  It took a long time to arrive at this decision, but that means our J/120, Shearwater is for sale (and that's all I'm going to say about that, here).

 

Congratulations.

My choice for more bang per buck would have been a POGO 40.

 

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2 hours ago, marcus brutus said:

My choice for more bang per buck would have been a POGO 40

>20 knots, yes
<20 knots, no

J/111 vs Pogo 40 at 06:17 B)

 

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1 hour ago, Blur said:

>20 knots, yes
<20 knots, no

Peter,

You posted the POGO 40S video below; so what's there not to like?

 

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11 hours ago, marcus brutus said:

Peter,

You posted the POGO 40S video below; so what's there not to like?

As I said; >20 knots of wind, downwind over >100 nm a Class 40 (or a Pogo) is the ride you want.

For normal racing in typical summer conditions, a J/111 is 10X more fun.
And often faster around the course; elapsed times from Rolex Middle Sea Race 2019;

  • Blur J/111 d4 h12 m14 s53
  • Andastra Class 40/Axion 40 d4 h17 m57 s33
  • Crazy Akilaria, Class 40 d4 h23 m34 s31
  • Akouavi Pogo 12.50 d5 h21 m58 s33

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Pulled out the practice chute for the first time yesterday.  Looks like there has been some sail trading going on down in SF.  Ah well, seems appropriate for beer can racing.  

 

Raku_Martini.jpg

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For normal racing in typical summer conditions, a J/111 is 10X more fun.
And often faster around the course; elapsed times from Rolex Middle Sea Race 2019;

  • Blur J/111 d4 h12 m14 s53
  • Andastra Class 40/Axion 40 d4 h17 m57 s33
  • Crazy Akilaria, Class 40 d4 h23 m34 s31
  • Akouavi Pogo 12.50 d5 h21 m58 s33

Having sailed a Class 40 and lots in a J/111 that seems backwards.....   or you just schooled much faster boats.  Around here a J/111 rates 30sec/mile slower than a Gen 1 Class 40 rated without water ballast.   

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Blur is extremly well sailed, though, not sure if that is a fair benchmark :) 

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11 hours ago, solosailor said:

Having sailed a Class 40 and lots in a J/111 that seems backwards.....   or you just schooled much faster boats.  Around here a J/111 rates 30sec/mile slower than a Gen 1 Class 40 rated without water ballast.   

It's all about the conditions.  The point Peter was making was that in light air (the conditions I experience mostly), a Class 40 isn't a good choice as a much slower rated J/111 can easily sail a light air course faster.  The Middle Sea Race was a predominantly light air event last year, which helps prove the point.

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Made the trip across Lake Michigan on Saturday and the new Shorthanded sits in her slip at Eldean’s in Macatawa, MI. Now it’s time the learn the J111. 

F1E79491-BCFD-4BF6-80A4-1DBD450BC92E.jpeg

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13 hours ago, Shorthanded said:

Made the trip across Lake Michigan on Saturday and the new Shorthanded sits in her slip at Eldean’s in Macatawa, MI. Now it’s time the learn the J111. 

F1E79491-BCFD-4BF6-80A4-1DBD450BC92E.jpeg

Boat looks great and glad you have a safe crossing.  Wishing a fun 2020 summer and beyond in the new addition!

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On 5/15/2020 at 11:00 PM, Shorthanded said:

Made the trip across Lake Michigan on Saturday and the new Shorthanded sits in her slip at Eldean’s in Macatawa, MI. Now it’s time the learn the J111. 

F1E79491-BCFD-4BF6-80A4-1DBD450BC92E.jpeg

 

I've been crewing on one for two seasons now and I'm still learning, but I can tell you two things:


1) You need to foot, foot more, you're too high, stop pinching and foot off.  Got speed?  OK now try getting her higher.

2) You're sailing too deep, stop soaking, heat her up, get her hotter.  Got speed?  OK now try getting lower.

 

It's a constant struggle with the old sailing brain of heavier displacement.  But if you follow your numbers and go after speed first you'll be in good shape.

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My tip:

Get an ORC Speed guide for your short handed configuration (especially: reduced crew weight).   I found the ORC polar numbers to be very accurate and they can be good "target" to shoot for and make you understand if you are sailing the boat well or not.

The speed guide also contains target heel.   You will be surprised how much heel the J/111 likes to get the best out of her!   

 

 

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Great looking boat!!!

Note that the ORC polars are based on wind at 10 meter. On the J/111 with a B&G sensor the height is 17.6 meter. So target speed at 10 knots in the Speed Guide is really target speed at 9.32 knots wind on the instruments. Or just add 4-6% boat speed to the target speed for a given TWS (a bit more at v3 knots and a bit less at 18.

ORC underestimates the effect of crew weight somewhat; i e you will be a bit faster shorthanded in light airs and downwind where I easily beat the fully crewed polars, but be 5-10% off pace when you're powered up. Typically at 92-93% upwind.

Below are our targets. As said, drive to speed upwind. NEVER point before you're on target. We've also drive to target TWA (and heel angle) downwind. Very easy to hunt for speed without increasing VMG :D

Targets.jpg

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I assume those are your full crew targets Peter?

I have an ORC speed guide for my boat with a crew weight of 135 kg.    I scale the 10m winds in Expedition by 7% to obtain mast height numbers.  As I sail on non-tidal water most of the time my log is now very well calibrated as well and the ORC polar proves to be very accurate. Still,  downwind in light air I can exceed the polar by 1-3%.  The target heel is about 25-30 degrees (upwind) for >10kt of wind.

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, ZeeZee said:

I assume those are your full crew targets Peter?

Yup. I will update the shorthanded ones soon... The biggest problem is that we've been racing in 5 different rating rules with multiple configurations. Also had to adjust crew weight at the crew just got fatter and fatter... Never ends.:lol:

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MADMEN (J/111 - Martini glass) regularly seems to walk away from California Condor (Antrim Class 40) in light wind winter SF events.

MADMEN seems to be a fairly serious program. It would be interesting to know if the "slow" Class 40s are just taking a relaxed attitude and could win if they tightened things up.

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Finally took a break from sailing to get the naming taken care of...

 

 

 

IMG_0384.jpg

IMG_2755.jpg

IMG_5987.jpg

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New Code 65 with a staysail up too.  Pretty quick combination. 

IMG_4285.JPG.07dcb331f7072e494fbd70d003456d98.JPG

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Interesting!  What rating rule are you using with the Code 65?  

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49 minutes ago, Roleur said:

Interesting!  What rating rule are you using with the Code 65?  

PHRF and ORR.

For PHRF, its a 3 second hit on the DHCP, no hit on the regular handicap for TOD or TOT though we wouldn't be using the sail in course races anyway.

For ORR, we run two races.  For the BV Mac it will be about a 3 second hit.  For Chicago, we race under one-design so the sail won't be used and all boats will conform to the rating rule.

In both cases, the staysail is not penalized but we can't use it in one-design.

Hroth

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21 hours ago, hrothgar said:

New Code 65 with a staysail up too.  Pretty quick combination. 

 

I cannot see in that photo, do you have a bobstay to support the pole? This seems to be a big question for the Code 0 sail and one of the reasons I haven't bought one. 

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23 hours ago, hrothgar said:

New Code 65 with a staysail up too.  Pretty quick combination. 

 

So - that's an LRH/Tweener?

It doesn't measure as a spinnaker - right?

It looks light - what's the sailcloth?

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1 hour ago, danstanford said:

I cannot see in that photo, do you have a bobstay to support the pole? This seems to be a big question for the Code 0 sail and one of the reasons I haven't bought one. 

Yes, we have a bobstay.  Totally necessary for a code sail because of the halyard tension required to establish a firm luff entry.

Hroth

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8 minutes ago, us7070 said:

So - that's an LRH/Tweener?

It doesn't measure as a spinnaker - right?

It looks light - what's the sailcloth?

Yes

Yes

Its a North Helix luff system.  Sailcloth is Aramid Laminate Code Xi06 CDT. (whatever that is!)

Hroth

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16 minutes ago, hrothgar said:

Yes, we have a bobstay.  Totally necessary for a code sail because of the halyard tension required to establish a firm luff entry.

Hroth

LRH should be okay with much less luff tension than a code 0- at least that's what i thought...

is it?

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2 minutes ago, us7070 said:

LRH should be okay with much less luff tension than a code 0- at least that's what i thought...

is it?

Its about halfway in between the 0 and a normal kite.  We have always had a bobstay.  I think its a good precaution no matter what you are running.

Hroth

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6 hours ago, us7070 said:

LRH should be okay with much less luff tension than a code 0- at least that's what i thought...

is it?

We ended up with a lot of load on out LRH and Mule on the 125.  Way more load than we thought, we actually broke the dog bone in the hull that the bobstay was attached to.   

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Curious as to what kind of fuel economy people are seeing.  We were moving the boat last weekend into a stiff north wind most of the time and used as follows:

  • Day 1.  6 hours.  about 3000 rpm.  2.5 gallons.  .416 GPH (motor sailing part of the way)
  • Day 2.  12 hours.  about 3000 rpm.  7.5 gallons.  .625 GPH (into a stiff northerly with waves.)
  • DAy 3.  7 hours.  about 3200 rpm.  3 gallons.  .428 GPH (flat water into the wind)

If feels like we always plan for more fuel than we need (which is smart I suppose).  Curious as to what others do.

Hroth

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That seems pretty consistent with my experience.  I haven't calculated that closely, but always figured about .5 gallon per hour.

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I typically calculate 2 l/h @2300 RPM. Below figures from the official test w J/composites in France & Volvo Penta.

fuel.jpg

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