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J/111 Goes Sailing...

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What's with that jib inhauler thingy? It's pulling the lead more aft than in, so meeds another padeye to get the lead angle right, unless I'm off track on it's intended function

 

Agreed, the entire jib setup looks fucked up and underpowered. Hopefully another sailmaker will get this sorted. Not sure why they choose to go with the above deck furler. It's supposed to be low-profile, but I'm not impressed.

 

A two-tone deck and carbon wheel (J122 Style) would definitely improve the asthetics for a 1st time approval.

 

Hopefully they'll post some downwind shots in 20knts+ to show off all this planing capability that's been hyped.

 

It is a brand new boat. It seems to sail for the first time. Give it more mast rake and the jib might come down on the clew easy. Isn´t that what shake down runs are there for. Get some experts on board, lengthen the headstay (an expert always keeps a toggle at hand) and all will be fine. At least from this end of my couch.

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1) why not attaching the forestay to the bow stem ? after all the furler is over deck

 

2) that jib with a big gap at deck level is weird

 

3) ahhh, yes : I'm missing those reassuring, JBoat-style, elegant rectangular windows...

 

4) as for the performance : I'd rather wait for some real data and first hand impressions instead of speculating on speed based on a picture...

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I think the aesthetics would be improved with a contrasting color on the deck and a cove stripe. Probably good reason why they didn't want to take the time to do the extra masking on Hull #1. With those additions - or better yet, a nice Awlgrip job in Flag Blue with the aforementioned cove stripe - it would be a nice looking boat.

 

For a boat that's supposed to be cruise-able, there really isn't a lot of ventilation, is there? I'm also wondering if they have the optional removable bow roller, like the J/109. That's a really nice feature for a racer/cruiser.

 

 

Options include contrasting non-skid as well as a cove stripes like on most J Boats. There is an option for opening ports on th eaft face of the cabin as well. As of last I heard, there isn't an option for a removable anchor roller but that could change.

 

Hull #1 is set up for the customer who ordered her. I am sure the others will have different options picked. Those looking to race more than cruise will probably not opt for quite of few of the options on the list.

One of the problems with OD in the J/109 was that the options meant a lot of variance in weight between "loaded" and "stripped" boats. I've always thought that if they're marketing the boat as a racer/cruiser, it should come standard with basic cruising amenities, and the class rules should require that they remain on the boat in OD racing. Or they glass in corrector weights where the extra battery bank, the fridge unit, the hot water heater, etc. would otherwise go.

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Another J with a sprit. Why do we have to put up with these boats that can't go downwind. I'm tired of these boats that want to look like Farr designs but have sprits....spare me please......

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I like it. The wheel is actually large enough so you don't have to stretch.

 

Nobody likes a Farr wannabe which is what this is. Nice Try J, but what's with the sprit? You guys love to build boats that won't go downwind. Give it up!!

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Boring as already stated but this kind of boat will sell to plenty of annapolitans, get raced a few times, and then sit around in some marina or boat yard unused like so many other boring boats in Annapolis... Whne was the last time any boat like this ever went crusing? Theres no way to put sunprotection on that cockpit and any children would likely be maimed by the mainsheet system. When will designers stop bullshitting us with this cruising crap?

 

Are you kidding ?? Who in their right mind Buys a "Race" boat and wants a fuckin sunprotection dragging in the breeze ??? If you want that go buy an Island Packard.....this is being marketed as a Race Boat so everything is light and spartan below. There is gonna be NO netting the whole boat for Children.....the only Child allowed on this boat is the owner after he losses in IRC....

 

another person who didn't read the promotional material....

 

from the web site:

 

 

the J/111 is a sleek, speedy, one-design 36 footer that is the ultimate day sailing, racing and weekend cruising sailboat

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Anyone have a pricing sheet that can be shared? Interested to see what the 111 has in terms of options, upgrades and the costs, etc. I know what the base price is, just looking to price the whole thing with options, etc.

 

DG

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I think it's refreshing some sane heads are providing a counterpoint to the marketing hyperbowl.

 

"Sane heads"? Yeah, like the dude that opined the boat must be a disappointment because nobody in the pics was smiling. Brilliant analysis. Why even bother sailing a new boat when you can tell all from the faces of those in the promo pics?

 

Others are shocked the boat does not seem to plane in 7 knots of wind, at least according to the pics.

 

The clew on the jib is cut a bit high, so clearly this boat is just much of the same old bullshit J has been pimping for years.

 

Stunning analyses by "sane heads", one and all!

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I will pre-empt this by stating that I am J boat dealer!

 

I love all the couch commentary from people who haven't even sailed one yet! I called this morning and there are now 32 boats pre-sold! That is more than double the amount of J/105's that were presold when it was released and they are still in production with over 600 boats out sailing! Not sure if all of these are previous J-owners. My client presently owns a J/105.

 

I think it was a tough decision to release a new boat in the same size range as a current production model. Time will tell if this was a wise choice. People are knocking the price but I think it is priced competetively with it's competition in the market place. Again, time will tell but selling 32 boats in an extremely down economy shows a lot of faith in Rod, Al and the rest of the company that you do not see going on anywhere else in this size range at this time! Poo poo it if you will but this is going to be a successfull boat.

 

I will be sailing the boat boat on the 12th and 13th of this month. I will come back and let you know my opinion of the boat's actual sailing abilities then. Until then I only have an opinion based on the history of the company, it's products (over 14,000 built) and what I have seen by visiting the factory during the boat's production. Anyone else that has better first hand experience sailing on the boat or against it should speak up and give a real opinion about this boat.

 

I await the post bashing....

 

I don't own a J-Boat but have always liked most of their boats. They are mostly very well built and designed Race boats. Go to any major Regatta and J-Boats has built more than any other builder there......1 million China man cannot be wrong (or something like that). Yes they are more $$ than similar boats but you get what you pay for.

 

In the last few years they have been developing their boats more Racer than cruiser. As for the IRC number only time/racing will tell if it can perform to the number.....my guess will be 1.129 and the PHRF number of an ID35 of 36 is gonna be REAL tough. I'd bet the ole Mumm 36 would win in an upwind leg (only to be creemed downhill). I would think a number around 56 would be fair. PHRF can give real gifts and impossible handicaps to J-Boats depending on where the boats start out

 

I like l look of the boat but HATE, yes HATE the Wheel......totally idiodic to have one on a small race boat. This is one of the BIG points that

I really don't like about J-Boat's......they try an put a wheel on almost every boat. I know why they do it but a true race boat should NOT have one at this size.

 

Good post Newbie....now show us your Wife's TiT's......laugh!!!

 

It is not a race boat. Some (many) people choose to race them but they are born to be cruisers. IMHO - the only race boats J has made were the 125 and the 90. Not any different than many other bigger mfgs of boats like X-yachts, Bendy, etc. The racing market is very small compared to the cruising market - hence the choises made.

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Anyone have a pricing sheet that can be shared? Interested to see what the 111 has in terms of options, upgrades and the costs, etc. I know what the base price is, just looking to price the whole thing with options, etc.

 

DG

 

It appears that the cheapest you can get one on the water with little to no options is around $285,000 with a basic sail inventory. Factor in your sales tax and it's over $300,000. This is bare bones minimum from what I have seen.

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"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana, ca. 1906

 

It's as usual amusing to read the pontifications of so many who know so little here on SA (in the forum sponsored, of course, by the Johnstones). Try to recall this:

 

The J/105 was initially marketed as a boat for people who live close to where they sail (or words to that effect). Read the blurb on the J/ website and the first attribute of the 105 listed is its "larger, more comfortable cockpit" for those "picnic sails". You know, the picnic sails so favored by the denizens here at SA.

 

The 105 took off as a one-design not because it was planned as such, but because enough people bought them and then lined up to race them. It met a price point in the market not by planning but by sheer luck: it was the right boat for many people at the right time. 672 sold as of September 2009. Best-selling and largest OD class over 30', ever. And purely by accident. Remember that the 105 was introduced in 1992. The class gained one-design traction in 1996. Four years. Wonder how many of you will still be posting on SA in 2014?

 

The 109 tried to follow that success and give 105 owners a platform to grow into. Compared to the volume of the 105, the 109 was a lukewarm success. 362 sold as of September 2009. Why? It's too costly for "average" sailors to wage a one-design war in a boat over about 35'. It becomes checkbook sailing. When a mainsail goes for minimum seven large, and the big swinging dicks have a new main for every class regatta, the average guy gets his ass kicked. And packs up and goes home. And there's no class momentum since too many used boats are for sale or sitting at the dock.

 

The 122 is far more expensive and likely out of reach financially for the 1,000 or so owners of 105's and 109's. With both designs long in the tooth, what should J/Boats do to sustain their business? Find the common denominator and introduce a new compromise boat. Hence the 111.

 

Who gives a shit about the clew height? The location of the backstay adjuster? The lack of a cove stripe? Either buyers will bite or they won't. And the target buyer is more likely to see the black stanchions (like on a TP52!!) or the big wheel (look honey I look cool bringing the boat into the dock!!) or the -- wait for it -- clear-coated CARBON mast. Wow a carbon mast. The 105 don't got it. 109 - nope. But all the sexy boats have carbon masts.

 

Those who like the brand point to the 30-odd orders taken so far. Folks, these are "reservations" -- no real money due until your hull is ready to mold. You can bet the house that 20 of those 30 buyers are going to bide their time and see how the 111 does initially. A One Design class will not materialize overnight; the first boats are spread worldwide and no pockets of strength have been identified. These first boats will line up under the handicap du jour, and if they get crushed the boat will die on the vine. Otherwise they might become yet another boutique one-design. Express 37. Soveral 33. J/44. NYYC42. Mumm 36. To name but just a few all hyped as the next up-and-coming OD. And guess what... every boat hyped as the next one-design was... not the next one-design.

 

Oh and the 90 and 125? Great boats. 6 of the former built; 18 of the latter. But "serious racers" don't take J/Boats seriously. Those "serious racers" are too image-conscious to buy a mass-market brand. And ergo serious racers will not buy into the 111.

 

But sure as shit they will pontificate about it. It's trying work, though; time for a drink.

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I will pre-empt this by stating that I am J boat dealer!

 

I love all the couch commentary from people who haven't even sailed one yet! I called this morning and there are now 32 boats pre-sold! That is more than double the amount of J/105's that were presold when it was released and they are still in production with over 600 boats out sailing! Not sure if all of these are previous J-owners. My client presently owns a J/105.

 

I think it was a tough decision to release a new boat in the same size range as a current production model. Time will tell if this was a wise choice. People are knocking the price but I think it is priced competetively with it's competition in the market place. Again, time will tell but selling 32 boats in an extremely down economy shows a lot of faith in Rod, Al and the rest of the company that you do not see going on anywhere else in this size range at this time! Poo poo it if you will but this is going to be a successfull boat.

 

I will be sailing the boat boat on the 12th and 13th of this month. I will come back and let you know my opinion of the boat's actual sailing abilities then. Until then I only have an opinion based on the history of the company, it's products (over 14,000 built) and what I have seen by visiting the factory during the boat's production. Anyone else that has better first hand experience sailing on the boat or against it should speak up and give a real opinion about this boat.

 

I await the post bashing....

 

 

 

I don't own a J-Boat but have always liked most of their boats. They are mostly very well built and designed Race boats. Go to any major Regatta and J-Boats has built more than any other builder there......1 million China man cannot be wrong (or something like that). Yes they are more $$ than similar boats but you get what you pay for.

 

In the last few years they have been developing their boats more Racer than cruiser. As for the IRC number only time/racing will tell if it can perform to the number.....my guess will be 1.129 and the PHRF number of an ID35 of 36 is gonna be REAL tough. I'd bet the ole Mumm 36 would win in an upwind leg (only to be creemed downhill). I would think a number around 56 would be fair. PHRF can give real gifts and impossible handicaps to J-Boats depending on where the boats start out

 

I like l look of the boat but HATE, yes HATE the Wheel......totally idiodic to have one on a small race boat. This is one of the BIG points that

I really don't like about J-Boat's......they try an put a wheel on almost every boat. I know why they do it but a true race boat should NOT have one at this size.

 

Good post Newbie....now show us your Wife's TiT's......laugh!!!

 

 

Wow, humbled to be among so many experts who can judge a boat's performance, righting moment, displacement and planning ability, ability to sail to a dazzeling aray of handicaps, and comment on the esthetics with such authority based upon a series of 6 (?) photos. I think I'll just have to sit back and see what developes. My guess is that it'll be another success story for the J/Boats firm.

 

FYI, no, refitting a tiller will almost certainly dsq your butt out of OD....something I was bummed to hear....but that's the concensus of the current "owners" apparently....whereas I'm a bi-standers now and almost certainly for the foreseeable future.

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The 109 tried to follow that success and give 105 owners a platform to grow into. Compared to the volume of the 105, the 109 was a lukewarm success. 362 sold as of September 2009. Why? It's too costly for "average" sailors to wage a one-design war in a boat over about 35'. It becomes checkbook sailing. When a mainsail goes for minimum seven large, and the big swinging dicks have a new main for every class regatta, the average guy gets his ass kicked. And packs up and goes home. And there's no class momentum since too many used boats are for sale or sitting at the dock.

 

 

 

ok most of your post is bullshit anyone, but especially this paragraph. First off, our main for our boat was 4k, but we got a good deal as it normally went for about about 5.5 at that time. they built the sail with a higher thread count than the owner wanted so he canceled the order, ergo, cheap main for us. Otherwise, there's thing in the class rules that prohibits you from doing what you just suggested. The rules state:

 

For J/109 Class or fleet sanctioned one design racing, purchases shall not exceed

(a) two mainsails, jibs, and spinnakers in the first year of ownership (B) plus one mainsail,

one jib, and one spinnaker during any subsequent calendar year. Notwithstanding any

other limitation in this section, the Executive Board or the Chief Measurer may permit

replacement of any sail which has been damaged beyond reasonable repair.

 

ergo, aside from what essentially works out to have delivery/spare sails in the first year. I dont know of any teams that actually bought a whole new suite ever year thereafter, and if they did - good for them support the local economy...

 

but hey, keep thinking whatever you want to think about the 109 and its class. We were a happy owner of ours for about six years, and we raced in OD once in the entire time that we owned it.

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So much comparison between the SC37 and the J 111. I think I like the dual wheels on the SC37.

 

sc%2037%202.jpg

 

IMG_0129.jpg

 

So many toys whci on do I want.

 

SC 37 image gallery I like the Interior shots. SA should own one.

 

J 111 image gallery

 

but dawg, how can the sc be a good boat ? Look: the jib is luffing, its not on a plane, and no one is smiling. it must be a pos.

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but dawg, how can the sc be a good boat ? Look: the jib is luffing, its not on a plane, and no one is smiling. it must be a pos.

 

Actaully both shots look good.

 

I am more curious about building techniques used. Are they relatively the same as they were 20 /30 years ago or have things progressed much.

 

  1. polish and wax the mold
  2. Shoot the Gel Coat
  3. Lay up glass
  4. lay up core
  5. Lay up glass
  6. vacuum bag
  7. and let cure

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I do wish J-boats the very best. I like this new boat and look forward to seeing performance numbers soon. It will probably go upwind better than most Jboats and be really fast on the reaches.. Lets see how it compares to "General Lee" and "Alfresco" the Bakewell-White 36 - that boat busted out 28 knots on a broad reach with an Aso up.. really fast.. Good Luck Alan. Wish you the very best !!

Thank you,

Les the Sailorman...Hemet, Calif.

ps: another hip operation coming soon...bummer..

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I do wish J-boats the very best. I like this new boat and look forward to seeing performance numbers soon. It will probably go upwind better than most Jboats and be really fast on the reaches.. Lets see how it compares to "General Lee" and "Alfresco" the Bakewell-White 36 - that boat busted out 28 knots on a broad reach with an Aso up.. really fast.. Good Luck Alan. Wish you the very best !!

Thank you,

Les the Sailorman...Hemet, Calif.

ps: another hip operation coming soon...bummer..

 

Why does it have to compare to a Farr, RP, B-W, JV? It is a different market and J has done a great job of fitting into a niche that has a loyal group of followers. If you don't want a Benetau you get a J, both classes have managed to put together strong "One" Design fleets that get people on the starting line and giving them a place to take the family on the off weekend.

 

Besides One Design is One Design, does not matter if you are going 20 or 2 as long as everyone else is going the same speed it's all relative.

 

Nice looking design and I am looking forward to seeing a few on the water.

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I think I like the dual wheels on the SC37.

 

 

I have spent time on the SC37. I also like dual wheels in general as a steering concept. In the case of the SC37, I think the boat is too small for it, the wheels look kind of puny, they had no choice. Going with the big wheel on the 111 is the right choice for that boat.

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Nobody likes a Farr wannabe which is what this is.

 

Farr had a serious naval design brand until it started putting out the Beneteaus. These boats were heavy, sticky and slow in spite of the snazzy Farr design brand. Have never looked at Farr the same way again. They sold out. Farr and Beneteau should not even be named in the same sentence. If you think even for one moment that J Boats has Farr envy, you are kdding yourself. The differnece with J Boats is that they design their own boats and have somebody else build them. The other guys do the opposite: they have somebody else design, and build in-house.

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I am more curious about building techniques used. Are they relatively the same as they were 20 /30 years ago or have things progressed much.

 

  1. polish and wax the mold
  2. Shoot the Gel Coat
  3. Lay up glass dry
  4. lay up core dry
  5. Lay up glass dry
  6. vacuum bag
  7. Lay up breather and vacuum bag
  8. Connect suction and resin lines
  9. Connect vacuum
  10. Feed catalyzed resin from buckets until saturatated
  11. and let cure

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Any informed opinions on optimum crew size for the 111? On the 122 we go 8-9, the heavier the better up to the limit. Maybe 6-7 and 1500-1750 on the 111?

 

Glenn

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Why does it have to compare to a Farr, RP, B-W, JV? It is a different market and J has done a great job of fitting into a niche that has a loyal group of followers. If you don't want a Benetau you get a J, both classes have managed to put together strong "One" Design fleets that get people on the starting line and giving them a place to take the family on the off weekend.

 

Besides One Design is One Design, does not matter if you are going 20 or 2 as long as everyone else is going the same speed it's all relative.

 

Nice looking design and I am looking forward to seeing a few on the water.

 

That, sir, is heresy!

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Nobody likes a Farr wannabe which is what this is.

 

Farr had a serious naval design brand until it started putting out the Beneteaus. These boats were heavy, sticky and slow in spite of the snazzy Farr design brand. Have never looked at Farr the same way again. They sold out. Farr and Beneteau should not even be named in the same sentence. If you think even for one moment that J Boats has Farr envy, you are kdding yourself. The differnece with J Boats is that they design their own boats and have somebody else build them. The other guys do the opposite: they have somebody else design, and build in-house.

 

Beneteaus? I thought Farr is designing Bavarias these days :o

Oh, and potentially hot 40 foot OD racers - but those would not be of interest to (potential) J/Boat owners (and there is a different thread for this).

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Well- it is pretty and will be well-built BUT come on guys- take 2000# out of it, offer a proper tiller cockpit setup and I might be interested but as it is, just another displacement hull trying to get out of the hole NO THANKS. Just what I need, spend 300K and watch M32's sail through my lee. I don't sleep on boats that don't offer room service. Get on the course, flay the competition and get to the shower/bar./restaurant/bed first.

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Amen

 

 

 

 

Well- it is pretty and will be well-built BUT come on guys- take 2000# out of it, offer a proper tiller cockpit setup and I might be interested but as it is, just another displacement hull trying to get out of the hole NO THANKS. Just what I need, spend 300K and watch M32's sail through my lee. I don't sleep on boats that don't offer room service. Get on the course, flay the competition and get to the shower/bar./restaurant/bed first.

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Amen

 

 

 

 

Well- it is pretty and will be well-built BUT come on guys- take 2000# out of it, offer a proper tiller cockpit setup and I might be interested but as it is, just another displacement hull trying to get out of the hole NO THANKS. Just what I need, spend 300K and watch M32's sail through my lee. I don't sleep on boats that don't offer room service. Get on the course, flay the competition and get to the shower/bar./restaurant/bed first.

 

Not enough guys like this (with real money) for anyone to make any money...Do what you suggest and you'll sell 6-12 of them. Maybe.

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Well- it is pretty and will be well-built BUT come on guys- take 2000# out of it, offer a proper tiller cockpit setup and I might be interested but as it is, just another displacement hull trying to get out of the hole NO THANKS. Just what I need, spend 300K and watch M32's sail through my lee. I don't sleep on boats that don't offer room service. Get on the course, flay the competition and get to the shower/bar./restaurant/bed first.

 

Not on the Fastnet or Bermuda 1-2 you won't

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1) why not attaching the forestay to the bow stem ? after all the furler is over deck

 

2) that jib with a big gap at deck level is weird

3) ahhh, yes : I'm missing those reassuring, JBoat-style, elegant rectangular windows...

 

4) as for the performance : I'd rather wait for some real data and first hand impressions instead of speculating on speed based on a picture...

 

I think the jib was cut for below deck furling, I speculate there was a problem with the below deck installation on this boat and they wanted to get it out sailing ASAP for all the people flying in ... just a thought

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1) why not attaching the forestay to the bow stem ? after all the furler is over deck

 

2) that jib with a big gap at deck level is weird

3) ahhh, yes : I'm missing those reassuring, JBoat-style, elegant rectangular windows...

 

4) as for the performance : I'd rather wait for some real data and first hand impressions instead of speculating on speed based on a picture...

 

I think the jib was cut for below deck furling, I speculate there was a problem with the below deck installation on this boat and they wanted to get it out sailing ASAP for all the people flying in ... just a thought

 

 

Below deck furling was concidered but you get a larger foretriangle by fitting a stay on the stem. The furler they went with has about the lowest tack you can find in a single line furler.

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Well- it is pretty and will be well-built BUT come on guys- take 2000# out of it, offer a proper tiller cockpit setup and I might be interested but as it is, just another displacement hull trying to get out of the hole NO THANKS. Just what I need, spend 300K and watch M32's sail through my lee. I don't sleep on boats that don't offer room service. Get on the course, flay the competition and get to the shower/bar./restaurant/bed first.

 

 

so..., because _you_ don't like to sleep on boats, no body should build boats for people who do?

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Well- it is pretty and will be well-built BUT come on guys- take 2000# out of it, offer a proper tiller cockpit setup and I might be interested but as it is, just another displacement hull trying to get out of the hole NO THANKS. Just what I need, spend 300K and watch M32's sail through my lee. I don't sleep on boats that don't offer room service. Get on the course, flay the competition and get to the shower/bar./restaurant/bed first.

 

I have a powerboat that I drive through just about anybody's lee.

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Well- it is pretty and will be well-built BUT come on guys- take 2000# out of it, offer a proper tiller cockpit setup and I might be interested but as it is, just another displacement hull trying to get out of the hole NO THANKS. Just what I need, spend 300K and watch M32's sail through my lee. I don't sleep on boats that don't offer room service. Get on the course, flay the competition and get to the shower/bar./restaurant/bed first.

Pretty easy then. Just get a M32. What's the problem?

 

Or a RC44 (sorry, that one doesn't have a tiller).

Or a A34 (or that one might have bunks, sorry).

But, plenty of options for a connoisseur like you.

 

Funny how 90% of boats that's out there racing today are now considered "cruisers" by the SA expertise (based on looks/wheel/keel/interior)... Would be pretty lame if only so called "proper raceboats" took part in regattas and Beneteau, Corbys, J/boats, King/Summit, Swans, etc stayed home.

 

But as stated earlier. This is SA, no reality check needed.

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Interestingly, The winner of every mono-hull division but one in this year's Chicago Mackinac Race was a J Boat. The one division won by a non-J Boat was the cruising division...in which there were no J Boats...

 

But I guess that means as Blur says, everyone is racing "cruisers"...

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Interestingly, The winner of every mono-hull division but one in this year's Chicago Mackinac Race was a J Boat. The one division won by a non-J Boat was the cruising division...in which there were no J Boats...

 

But I guess that means as Blur says, everyone is racing "cruisers"...

 

I don't know where you gleamed this info from but either you cannot read a result sheet or you are jus in general full of shit. Massive fail.

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It's not so much about knocking the J boats, they're fine boats and have been. It's just that this isn't a big step forward by any stretch. It's a response to the SC37 to protect an existing market. Nothing newsworthy about the J111 though, it's an "evolution" not a "revolution".

How is it that the Archimbault M34 is so much lighter and so much more powered up in the specs? If someone is looking for one design potential it would seem between the tour and the specs the M34 is a much more likely candidate. It allso doesn't come with all the options and is made by one boat builder so boats should be tighter to rules making one design more viable. You can sleep on it too unlike McConaghy 36 or Soto 40.

 

 

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It's not so much about knocking the J boats, they're fine boats and have been. It's just that this isn't a big step forward by any stretch. It's a response to the SC37 to protect an existing market. Nothing newsworthy about the J111 though, it's an "evolution" not a "revolution".

How is it that the Archimbault M34 is so much lighter and so much more powered up in the specs? If someone is looking for one design potential it would seem between the tour and the specs the M34 is a much more likely candidate. It allso doesn't come with all the options and is made by one boat builder so boats should be tighter to rules making one design more viable. You can sleep on it too unlike McConaghy 36 or Soto 40.

 

 

i may not be understanding your post..., but the m34 is nothing like the sc37 or (it seems) the 111

 

both the sc and the j, are genuinely cruise-able boats, the archambault is not.

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While I agree that J Boats didn't take huge leaps at developing an all-out raceboat with the 111 there are still plenty of other options out there if that is your primary focus. At the end of the day people will buy what they want to buy based on their needs. The reason J Boats has been successful is because they offer dual purpose quality built boats, and you can either love them or hate them for staying true to that over the years. With 25+ orders I would say they're off to a good start, however I think a few more detailed pictures and performance updates would win over a few more people including myself. It seems like they were rushed to get Hull #1 out the door, and may not have mad much time to get the systems dialed in for the first photo shoot. I'm sure it's been out sailing this week, anyone have any info?

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Interestingly, The winner of every mono-hull division but one in this year's Chicago Mackinac Race was a J Boat. The one division won by a non-J Boat was the cruising division...in which there were no J Boats...

 

But I guess that means as Blur says, everyone is racing "cruisers"...

 

I don't know where you gleamed this info from but either you cannot read a result sheet or you are jus in general full of shit. Massive fail.

 

 

Lets see, from the Chicago Yacht Club's Race to Makinac Web page:

Winners of the 102nd Chicago Yacht Club Race to Mackinac, presented by Veuve Clicquot

 

Congratulations to the overall winners

 

Chicago-Mackinac Trophy Division - Lady K (Muskegon, Mich.) , owned by Mike Stewart ( a J/110)

Mackinac-Cup Division Flying Jenny VI (Annapolis, MD,), owned by David Askew (a J/122)

Cruising Division Intangible (Chicago, Ill.), owned by Tom Falck (a Tartan 3700)

Multihull Division Gamera (Chicago, Ill.), owned by Matt Scharl (not monohulls)

Doublehanded Division - Skye (Chicago, Ill.) Bill Zeiler and Rich Stearns (a J/122)

 

 

Every monohull Division (not sections) won by a J boat but the Cruising Division in which there were no J/Boats.

 

I can indeed read a results sheet. I suspect you didn't read them closely enough. I never said nor implied that JBoats won in every section...

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Okay, so yesterday I went and did the engine/prop testing on this boat. Unfortunately, I didn't get to go sailing, as the Doyle guys had taken the jibs back for some tweaking -yes, including adding to the foot. Hull #1 is going to NZL and the NZL Doyle loft built the sails. They were a bit off on the furler details... No biggie.

 

The boat looks pretty nice up close despite that forward port. Anyone who's calling this a cruising boat is talking out of their ass. Across the dock when I arrived was a Hunter 35. THAT'S a cruising boat! Pretty much the same LOA and looking at the 2 of them side by side, I was laughing to myself about the cruiser comments here. Couldn't be too much further at opposite ends of the production boat spectrum. The J looked like a missile next to that tub. The J/111 certainly has a substantially more liveable interior than a J/105 for sure. Standard layout, 2 quarterberths, 2 setees and the v-berth, so yeah -throw on some leecloths and you have real sea berths for distance racing.

 

Great attention to detail throughout the boat, as you would expect from J/Boats. Good ergonomics. Nice hardware, nice running rigging, lots of stripped tapered lines, spectra, etc. Craziest thing is the spreaders -the lowers are as wide as the boat!

 

Talking with Alan Johnstone about it, he mentioned that the weight and sail area are pretty close to the J/125, but in 3' less sailing length. So, I'd expect a bit slower upwind with less LWL vs. the J/125 and maybe closer than most here are thinking downwind. Like I said, I was disappointed to not go sailing as it was blowing 15-20. Going to be back in RI in 2 1/2 weeks, I'll get a ride then. He also mentioned the photos here prompted 3 serious inquires the day they appeared, on top of 30 pre-orders. Once they get the first few done, they'll be shipping them out 1/week.

 

If I were in the market for a dual purpose 35' production boat with a racing focus, this would definitely be on my short list.

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While I agree that J Boats didn't take huge leaps at developing an all-out raceboat with the 111 there are still plenty of other options out there if that is your primary focus. At the end of the day people will buy what they want to buy based on their needs. The reason J Boats has been successful is because they offer dual purpose quality built boats, and you can either love them or hate them for staying true to that over the years. With 25+ orders I would say they're off to a good start, however I think a few more detailed pictures and performance updates would win over a few more people including myself. It seems like they were rushed to get Hull #1 out the door, and may not have mad much time to get the systems dialed in for the first photo shoot. I'm sure it's been out sailing this week, anyone have any info?

 

See my post above. I don't think they "rushed it out the door", and I bet those first shots were just from one of the Johnstone's little pocket digital cameras. It was the first day the boat sailed, and of course there are some details to be sorted out in the first few days of a project like this. 5 years ago you wouldn't have seen anything until it was all polished and approved by the marketing folks!

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What no SPINNAKER PORN!!!! ?????

 

 

How is it that the Archimbault M34 is so much lighter and so much more powered up in the specs? If someone is looking for one design potential it would seem between the tour and the specs the M34 is a much more likely candidate. It allso doesn't come with all the options and is made by one boat builder so boats should be tighter to rules making one design more viable. You can sleep on it too unlike McConaghy 36 or Soto 40.

 

So I look up the Archimbault M34 and some of those photos could be Spinnaker Porn.

 

Just from the photos the M34 looks like it could take the 111 apart. But I think J is on track because US sailors want a boat they can sail easily and have a beer with their buddies on. The 111 looks to be that kind of boat. Though I still want to see some interior photos.

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Farr had a serious naval design brand until it started putting out the Beneteaus.

 

No doubt. That Syd-Hobart win with First National was pretty much the last nail in Farr's coffin. Tenacious' Bermuda win was equally as damaging to Farr's reputation.

 

Those Farr penned Beneslows are/were total dogs.

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Okay, so yesterday I went and did the engine/prop testing on this boat. Unfortunately, I didn't get to go sailing, as the Doyle guys had taken the jibs back for some tweaking -yes, including adding to the foot. Hull #1 is going to NZL and the NZL Doyle loft built the sails. They were a bit off on the furler details... No biggie.

 

The boat looks pretty nice up close despite that forward port. Anyone who's calling this a cruising boat is talking out of their ass. Across the dock when I arrived was a Hunter 35. THAT'S a cruising boat! Pretty much the same LOA and looking at the 2 of them side by side, I was laughing to myself about the cruiser comments here. Couldn't be too much further at opposite ends of the production boat spectrum. The J looked like a missile next to that tub. The J/111 certainly has a substantially more liveable interior than a J/105 for sure. Standard layout, 2 quarterberths, 2 setees and the v-berth, so yeah -throw on some leecloths and you have real sea berths for distance racing.

 

Great attention to detail throughout the boat, as you would expect from J/Boats. Good ergonomics. Nice hardware, nice running rigging, lots of stripped tapered lines, spectra, etc. Craziest thing is the spreaders -the lowers are as wide as the boat!

 

Talking with Alan Johnstone about it, he mentioned that the weight and sail area are pretty close to the J/125, but in 3' less sailing length. So, I'd expect a bit slower upwind with less LWL vs. the J/125 and maybe closer than most here are thinking downwind. Like I said, I was disappointed to not go sailing as it was blowing 15-20. Going to be back in RI in 2 1/2 weeks, I'll get a ride then. He also mentioned the photos here prompted 3 serious inquires the day they appeared, on top of 30 pre-orders. Once they get the first few done, they'll be shipping them out 1/week.

 

If I were in the market for a dual purpose 35' production boat with a racing focus, this would definitely be on my short list.

 

Thanks, interesting and rational post.

 

What checks did you do on the engine/prop ? On both my French built J's (92 and 105) the engine wasn't put in straight and had to be re-aligned, only discovered after I'd worn through a few cutlas bearings.

 

I haven't looked at the specs that closely but if the J111 has the same sail area as a J125 it's going to be absolutely slaughtered under IRC (or any other measured rule), in fact that's way more sail area than the boat can possible handle, certainly upwind, IRC will rate the boat for perfoamnce it cannot handle.

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I can only assume that the post by the engine and prop guy about sail area the similarity between the 111 and 125 is in the ratio of sail area to displacement (69%?) as the 125 is a longer boat, with taller rig, and higher righting moment so it must have more sail area than the 111; if one believes the specs online it has +300 upwind and up to +650 downwind. If the comparison holds and the E-glass 111 performs for its size like the larger full carbon 125 it should be in great shape.

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Thanks, interesting and rational post.

 

What checks did you do on the engine/prop ? On both my French built J's (92 and 105) the engine wasn't put in straight and had to be re-aligned, only discovered after I'd worn through a few cutlas bearings.

 

I haven't looked at the specs that closely but if the J111 has the same sail area as a J125 it's going to be absolutely slaughtered under IRC (or any other measured rule), in fact that's way more sail area than the boat can possible handle, certainly upwind, IRC will rate the boat for perfoamnce it cannot handle.

 

J/111 is a Yanmar saildrive, so no alignment issues to be concerned with. That's one of the reasons builders like saildrives, quicker easier installation. My only test is RPM at WOT, came up slightly short, so changing to the appropriate size to hit max operating RPM to make Yanmar happy. The Yanmar guy was measuring back pressures, temps and basically certifying that the builder did a quality installation. All the trash talking nonsense above about sails and what not, this is why you have sea trials with a new boat, to iron out these sort of details.

 

Don't quote me on sail area, I really haven't looked closely at those specs either. I think what Alan actually said was that the mast height off the water was the same as the J/125, the boom length was the same as a J/105. I think the J/125 has a bigger main (longer boom). He clearly had a higher volume production version of the J/125, with a more wife friendly interior on his mind while designing this one.

 

In a nutshell, I like it. Of course we still don't know the answer to the favorite SA question, "What's it rate?" and the corollary, "Can it sail to its rating?" Time will tell on that.

Or if there will be enough for one-design -though I might guess yes on that. I think it hits a sweet spot in the market and J/Boats will sell plenty of them.

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Anyone who's calling this a cruising boat is talking out of their ass. Across the dock when I arrived was a Hunter 35. THAT'S a cruising boat! Pretty much the same LOA and looking at the 2 of them side by side, I was laughing to myself about the cruiser comments here. Couldn't be too much further at opposite ends of the production boat spectrum.

 

<sigh>

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.... At the dock.

Thanks.

 

We had a discussion about jib in-haulers (in general);

 


  1.  
  2. to leeward, easily reached by the trimmer at the winch, or
  3. to windward on a rotating cleat to be able to adjust gears under full hike?

 

Pros and cons with both setups.

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.... At the dock.

Thanks.

 

We had a discussion about jib in-haulers (in general);

 


  1.  
  2. to leeward, easily reached by the trimmer at the winch, or
  3. to windward on a rotating cleat to be able to adjust gears under full hike?

 

Pros and cons with both setups.

In-haulers look like an afterthough. To make the ring's travel path more athwartships, I'd splice it a bit closer to the mast.

Deck still looks 100% J, if you just showed me the deck I'd ask - is that a 122 or something.

The forestay attachement doesn't look nearly as swish as on the 122, real cost savings in this area.

Can someone pls get a picture of the rig and boom in relation to the mast height?

Looks like an easy boat to sail - any estimate on total crew weight KGS or number?

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.... At the dock.

Thanks.

 

We had a discussion about jib in-haulers (in general);

 

  1. to leeward, easily reached by the trimmer at the winch, or
  2. to windward on a rotating cleat to be able to adjust gears under full hike?

 

Pros and cons with both setups.

 

Cross sheet and the infucker crossed to ww as well so the trimmer has full control from a hiking position.

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In-haulers look like an afterthough. To make the ring's travel path more athwartships, I'd splice it a bit closer to the mast.

 

 

I heard from sailmaker (Doyle) that the high clew was done with an eye toward the jib getting hauled in (over the cabin house), so not an afterthought. Sailmaker does believe clew will come down in next generation of sails.The two headsails they have are an AP 106% and a #3 96%. Kites are 110 and 130 sq. meters.

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Anyone who's calling this a cruising boat is talking out of their ass. Across the dock when I arrived was a Hunter 35. THAT'S a cruising boat! Pretty much the same LOA and looking at the 2 of them side by side, I was laughing to myself about the cruiser comments here. Couldn't be too much further at opposite ends of the production boat spectrum.

 

<sigh>

 

Yeah. Seriously. For PRODUCTION boats. J/Boats will likely sell these by the 100's. Hunter has sold that gin palace by the 100's. It's a business folks- Product, Price, Promotion. How many Summit 35's (more racer focus) or SC 37's (comparable design brief) have sold or will sell in the next 5 years? Bigger production numbers means better resale, which means lower total cost of ownership. You have to make what people want at a price they're willing to pay, and a strong brand helps. J/Boats, Benteau, Hunter, Catalina, they get it and build a lot of boats. Not for everyone for sure, but those 4 combined probably produce 70% to 80% of the 27-45 foot sailboats sold in North America every year. And that size range is the where the sales volume and profits are.

 

If the only thing you care about is a stripped out balls to the wall handicap racer, no, the J/111 isn't a boat for you. If you're like most buyers in this size range, you foster some hope for some dual use, with racing as your primary focus, you should look at this boat.

 

But WTF do I know. I own a Viper 640 and a 30 year old 4 knot shitbox.

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Anyone who's calling this a cruising boat is talking out of their ass. Across the dock when I arrived was a Hunter 35. THAT'S a cruising boat! Pretty much the same LOA and looking at the 2 of them side by side, I was laughing to myself about the cruiser comments here. Couldn't be too much further at opposite ends of the production boat spectrum.

 

<sigh>

 

Yeah. Seriously. For PRODUCTION boats. J/Boats will likely sell these by the 100's. Hunter has sold that gin palace by the 100's. It's a business folks- Product, Price, Promotion. How many Summit 35's (more racer focus) or SC 37's (comparable design brief) have sold or will sell in the next 5 years? Bigger production numbers means better resale, which means lower total cost of ownership. You have to make what people want at a price they're willing to pay, and a strong brand helps. J/Boats, Benteau, Hunter, Catalina, they get it and build a lot of boats. Not for everyone for sure, but those 4 combined probably produce 70% to 80% of the 27-45 foot sailboats sold in North America every year. And that size range is the where the sales volume and profits are.

 

If the only thing you care about is a stripped out balls to the wall handicap racer, no, the J/111 isn't a boat for you. If you're like most buyers in this size range, you foster some hope for some dual use, with racing as your primary focus, you should look at this boat.

 

But WTF do I know. I own a Viper 640 and a 30 year old 4 knot shitbox.

 

Everything you just wrote after the third period you typed in the above quote( the directly above one, not the top with the highlighted sentence) is 100% correct. And has absolutely NOTHING to do with how completely inaccurate the above highlighted sentence is.

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[

 

If the only thing you care about is a stripped out balls to the wall handicap racer, no, the J/111 isn't a boat for you. If you're like most buyers in this size range, you foster some hope for some dual use, with racing as your primary focus, you should look at this boat.

 

 

I can relate to that sentiment. I had a stripped out balls to the wall racer. It was a J/90, loved that boat as a purist. My wife came one time, declared it not a dual use boat. I scared many on that boat with violent wipe outs and seriously hurt at least one crew. I need a boat that has a greater range of use.

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[

 

If the only thing you care about is a stripped out balls to the wall handicap racer, no, the J/111 isn't a boat for you. If you're like most buyers in this size range, you foster some hope for some dual use, with racing as your primary focus, you should look at this boat.

 

 

I can relate to that sentiment. I had a stripped out balls to the wall racer. It was a J/90, loved that boat as a purist. My wife came one time, declared it not a dual use boat. I scared many on that boat with violent wipe outs and seriously hurt at least one crew. I need a boat that has a greater range of use.

 

Sounds like a great boat for you then. :)

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Thanks for the dockside pics, the boat looks great, but I'd still want to change the furler, mainsheet system, and the wheel. Otherwise, everything else looks good and can't wait to see her sailing in a blow. Looks like JBoats finally went with an upgraded line package so you don't have to spend the first year replacing all the generic stuff.

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Anyone who's calling this a cruising boat is talking out of their ass. Across the dock when I arrived was a Hunter 35. THAT'S a cruising boat! Pretty much the same LOA and looking at the 2 of them side by side, I was laughing to myself about the cruiser comments here. Couldn't be too much further at opposite ends of the production boat spectrum.

 

<sigh>

 

Yeah. Seriously. For PRODUCTION boats. J/Boats will likely sell these by the 100's. Hunter has sold that gin palace by the 100's. It's a business folks- Product, Price, Promotion. How many Summit 35's (more racer focus) or SC 37's (comparable design brief) have sold or will sell in the next 5 years? Bigger production numbers means better resale, which means lower total cost of ownership. You have to make what people want at a price they're willing to pay, and a strong brand helps. J/Boats, Benteau, Hunter, Catalina, they get it and build a lot of boats. Not for everyone for sure, but those 4 combined probably produce 70% to 80% of the 27-45 foot sailboats sold in North America every year. And that size range is the where the sales volume and profits are.

 

If the only thing you care about is a stripped out balls to the wall handicap racer, no, the J/111 isn't a boat for you. If you're like most buyers in this size range, you foster some hope for some dual use, with racing as your primary focus, you should look at this boat.

 

But WTF do I know. I own a Viper 640 and a 30 year old 4 knot shitbox.

 

Everything you just wrote after the third period you typed in the above quote( the directly above one, not the top with the highlighted sentence) is 100% correct. And has absolutely NOTHING to do with how completely inaccurate the above highlighted sentence is.

 

Exactly what I was thinking. doghouse and I were probably sighing in unison when we read this.

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.... At the dock.

 

 

Any updates on further sailing impressions from this past weekend? Hopefully they had a bit more breeze.

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Rod J and myself took out an entire J/105 team for a test sail this past Friday night. We let them get in their normal crew positions and sail the boat. This was around 5:30 pm shortly after a summer squall blew through the bay. My impressions from what they were saying/discussing follow:

 

Cockpit ergonomics: Helm, main trimmer, and jib trimmer all LOVED their workstations. All sail controls were easy to work from the rail, in the cockpit, etc.

 

Spinn trimmer probably needs to stand and brace on the shroud turnbuckles in light air. Gets the weight forward. On this design with bigger fore triangle (Mast more aft)/cabin top it will be necessary to think about crew weight forward.

 

The boat feels much bigger then it is. The Cockpit, side deck all very roomy. No comparison to a J/105 and the boat is narrower then a J/105! (10.77 ft vs. 11.0 ft.). The cabin is nice and open. Nice nav table, settee cushions, two aft berths and forward v berth. Open airy feel.

 

Sailing impressions. The number one impression is the boat tacks easy and gets up to speed fast. The keel design must be right. The boat feels very efficient. We were in light air with a couple of nice shots that rolled down on us. Boat handled them well upwind and downwind. The chute is 130 meters square, she accelerated with authority in puffs.

 

Way fun boat. Smiles all around and lively discussion at dinner afterwards. Hopefully the 105 guys will jump in and comment.

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In-haulers look like an afterthough. To make the ring's travel path more athwartships, I'd splice it a bit closer to the mast.

 

 

I heard from sailmaker (Doyle) that the high clew was done with an eye toward the jib getting hauled in (over the cabin house), so not an afterthought. Sailmaker does believe clew will come down in next generation of sails.The two headsails they have are an AP 106% and a #3 96%. Kites are 110 and 130 sq. meters.

 

Interesting - those sail sizes are very close together, I'd suggest the OD rule says 106% and a true #4 - otherwise too many sails and expense and hassle. Likewise kites 110 and 130, on the European 105's we run 95 masthead and 80 fractional and personally I'd favour 100+ for the masthead as by the time we chicken out on the masthead (around 30) it's often better to go with no kite.

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Got to test sail #1 last Friday with Rod Johnstone. It's a really sweet boat. Jib trimmer will love the foot brace for grinding, with car adjuster and inhauler in easy reach. The cockpit has a nice layout.....backstay adjuster on the wheel pedistal so the main trimmer can make adjustments....

I thought the cabin top was a little high and the pole will definately get the sewer guys attention! Sails very nice and should be a good seller for J boats. Down stairs was nice enough to easily do some distance racing and overnight. The boat actually has a stern shower. It will be interesting to see what the class rules will look like once several boats are built.

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Interesting - those sail sizes are very close together, I'd suggest the OD rule says 106% and a true #4 - otherwise too many sails and expense and hassle.

If they are like the jibs on the 92S, they are very different sails. The "#1" is 106-108%, lighter and fuller, and really powers up the boat. The "#3" is 100% but is a flat, heavy air sail.

 

I doubt a #4 would get used much - I'd rather have a heavy-air #3 for racing OD. The ocean races (which probably wouldn't be raced OD) will require a #4 or storm jib anyway.

 

What would be your estimate of the range for the #3 quoted above ?

 

FYI for a Cat 2 offshore race you'd need a proper storm jib which is smaller than a #4.

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Not sure I like the 'table tent' piece of tinfoil that they are using for the base of the gross tune.

 

Rest of the boat looks hot... looking forward to a few interior shots.

 

DG

 

 

Saw the same thing you would think they could have done something nicer/better.

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ULDB - thanks, both really 92S and 111 - if you'd go for the 3 in 15 then I'd prefer to have just the larger jib and cut it to be more of an AP as we did on the 105's, we put the 4 up in about 20-22, less if two handed. When I sailed the original 2 I did so with just a #3 (ie no #1) - I am a fan of simple (and cost effective)

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ULDB - thanks, both really 92S and 111 - if you'd go for the 3 in 15 then I'd prefer to have just the larger jib and cut it to be more of an AP as we did on the 105's, we put the 4 up in about 20-22, less if two handed. When I sailed the original 2 I did so with just a #3 (ie no #1) - I am a fan of simple (and cost effective)

It's always a trade off between simplicity and performance :unsure:

 

For fully crewed with 6 guys, I would guess #1 would be full size/full shape, aimed at 2-12 knots, sweetspot at 6? #3 would be full size but with much less shape, aimed at 12-24 knots, sweetspot at 16?

 

For shorthanded we'll often just go with the #3 which would work ok from 8-20 knots. Not optimal, but with the 109 we find that we regularly beat the guys going through their sail inventory. In some aspects less is more...

 

In addition you'll need a true #4/hard wind jib in Cat 2-3.

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Blur: I think your approach is generally correct. For what it's worth, on the SC37 I have a Light #1 (105%) with a range of 0 to 12. Heavy #1 (105% - same area but flatter cut) with a range of 10 to 20. Then a "#3+", range 18 to 28, which is slightly smaller than a "standard" 3 but larger than a #4 -- it is sized to make it comply as the ORC "Heavy Weather Jib" (and has grommets). Finally a storm jib for the 30's and above. I think you will find that the headsails are so small that downshifting from the H1 to 3 is more for control/balance than for power; to truly reduce power you will need to reef the main. Having two reef points will be important.

 

I'd suggest you reconsider using only a #3 for shorthanding. Yes it simplifies things, but shorthanded races are generally distance affairs, and there's few things more painful than trying to get upwind in light air with a #3 for hours on end. I've tried it shorthanding, and in anything less than 15 knots the boat simply cannot point, and if there's any chop, on a boat as light as this, it will struggle even more. (It may have worked on your 109 with its higher D/L ratio as that boat can carry its momentum further; with the lighter boat you will need the sail area to get it to accelerate after it is slowed by waves.)

 

Good luck with the boat; it looks very nice.

 

Treef

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I'd suggest you reconsider using only a #3 for shorthanding. Yes it simplifies things, but shorthanded races are generally distance affairs, and there's few things more painful than trying to get upwind in light air with a #3 for hours on end. I've tried it shorthanding, and in anything less than 15 knots the boat simply cannot point, and if there's any chop, on a boat as light as this, it will struggle even more. (It may have worked on your 109 with its higher D/L ratio as that boat can carry its momentum further; with the lighter boat you will need the sail area to get it to accelerate after it is slowed by waves.)

 

Treef

 

Why would you go with a smaller head sail- just because you're short handed - when the conditions are right for the larger head sail? We had a large head sail on the j/90 and in light airs with sloppy wave action we'd kill boats with their little fore triangles as you said. Antrim 27s had this problem as I recall, they only had one size jib.

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ragbag - depends on how much the boat needs the crew weight of a full crew for the righting moment to balance the larger headsail.

 

Exactly. The J/90 was a narrow boat with a very low center of gravity. It was hard to make crew ballast count. The 111 not as extreme, but similar in concept. It is a J Boat hallmark: narrow with deep ballast, limited weight aloft.

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ragbag - depends on how much the boat needs the crew weight of a full crew for the righting moment to balance the larger headsail.

J Boat hallmark: narrow with deep ballast, limited weight aloft.

It's all relative but how is that different from any racer-cruiser? (besides exceptions like Archambault which are wide with deep ballast) Maybe you over-generalized or over-distinguished at the very least...

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It's all relative but how is that different from any racer-cruiser? (besides exceptions like Archambault which are wide with deep ballast) Maybe you over-generalized or over-distinguished at the very least...

 

Listen to what Johnstone says in the video http://sailmagazine.com/videos/boat_reviews/introducing_the_j111/ the boat is narrower than other boats in its size range and sails comparatively better with high degree of heel.

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It's all relative but how is that different from any racer-cruiser? (besides exceptions like Archambault which are wide with deep ballast) Maybe you over-generalized or over-distinguished at the very least...

 

Listen to what Johnstone says in the video http://sailmagazine....ucing_the_j111/ the boat is narrower than other boats in its size range and sails comparatively better with high degree of heel.

 

Indeed she looks quite tender from the video (thanks blur !)

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Indeed she looks quite tender from the video (thanks blur !)

 

It is a narrow boat, hence little form stability. The boat heels initially quite quickly, then settles in with the deep ballast taking over. J/90 had it in spades. It is a J Boat design characteristic.

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I'd suggest you reconsider using only a #3 for shorthanding. Yes it simplifies things, but shorthanded races are generally distance affairs, and there's few things more painful than trying to get upwind in light air with a #3 for hours on end. I've tried it shorthanding, and in anything less than 15 knots the boat simply cannot point, and if there's any chop, on a boat as light as this, it will struggle even more. (It may have worked on your 109 with its higher D/L ratio as that boat can carry its momentum further; with the lighter boat you will need the sail area to get it to accelerate after it is slowed by waves.)

 

Why would you go with a smaller head sail- just because you're short handed - when the conditions are right for the larger head sail? We had a large head sail on the j/90 and in light airs with sloppy wave action we'd kill boats with their little fore triangles as you said. Antrim 27s had this problem as I recall, they only had one size jib.

 

Well that was sort of my point. I had tried going with the smaller headsail to simplify, since headsail changes with a furler are by necessity bare-headed and very time consuming while shorthanded. But that simplification was not worth the loss of speed and power potential.

 

Back on the 111, I spoke with a local broker yesterday who had seen the boat in person. I asked what it would rate and he said he had no knowledge on that. Any updates on a rating yet?

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