windseekeryachts

Donovan GP26 starts production in Turkey

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What's included? Trailer and sails? shipping?

Quantum fusion aramid main, mid air jib, r1, r2

Running rigging

Tactick electronics

Outboard bracket.

Will include new paint acording to color choice and new anti skid no cost.

Shipping and packaging will be billed at cost.

Boat in race ready condition. Launched in oct 2011.

 

My original intention was to sell the boat in Turkey, but I am getting some enquries from USA recently.

Having asked for a recent freight quote, and at the current exchange rates, It comes to this...

Boat with above specs delivered in

west coast $49,250

east coast $47,000

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Do you have the actual results. Times etc. Nice pics. Looks like a good day out.

 

somehow, the excel file is too big and it does not load. Please give me your pm so I can send the results.

Regards,

 

on second try please click this http://tayk.org.tr/a...allenge Cup.xls unfortunately in Turkish but should be self explanotary...

Our TCC is 1.071 where the cutoff is 1.07 for IRC1 in Turkey. Next season I am hoping to move to IRC2 where it will be more fair as we will line up against 30 plus footers instead of 40 plus footers in IRC1.

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Who cares about IRC? Check this sick video out:

 

 

In this video the boat is close reaching, often difficult to do with full sail up in a powered-up sportboat.

If you go to 2:30 in this video you can see the boat gets a bit extra breeze and heels maybe 20 degrees?

There is no excitement aboard - the trimmer eases a couple inches of sheet and the helmsman moves the tiller a little bit even heading up a little more with no concerns.

 

The boat is obviously in complete control even with the bow wave now coming down the leeward deck.

Finally at about 2:50 the helmsman pulls the tiller a couple times about 10 degrees to weather and the bow heads off and the boat accelerates.

 

The GP 26 has quite a large spinnaker which at times will want to overpower the boat.

It is essential to have a hull that doesn't loose control with every puff.

 

It's gratifying to see the design perform as intended; I carefully balanced the hull shape to allow the boat to sail in control at higher heel angles.

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Another superb day onboard Gp26 today. First to finish line, first on corrected time in sportboat racing. 20 miles geographic course which was basically windward leeward racing. Wind always over 20, picking upto 30 in gusts later. Max speed, 19.6 with long streches in 17s and longer streches over 15. Video later...

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Another superb day onboard Gp26 today. First to finish line, first on corrected time in sportboat racing. 20 miles geographic course which was basically windward leeward racing. Wind always over 20, picking upto 30 in gusts later. Max speed, 19.6 with long streches in 17s and longer streches over 15. Video later...

 

Excellent news; really want to see that video!

 

Jim

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Did you eliminate main finetune?

Yes we did. Antal base is turning 360 degrees. It came easier for helmsman to tack with the main sheet at hand and take the slack sheet from behind instead of taking from front of the fine tune. We will figure out another solution for finetune next season.

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The guys sailing the GP26 in Istanbul are getting it dialed in; reports coming in from this weekend’s racing:

 

"Another superb day onboard GP26 today. First to finish line, first on corrected time in sportboat racing. 20 miles geographic course which was basically windward leeward racing.

Wind always over 20, picking upto 30 in gusts later. Max speed, 19.6 with long stretches in 17s and longer stretches over 15."

 

"2 more bullets today... 2 first to finish and first on corrected time in Sportboats Div1 in Uno Sailing Cup to finish the series in 1st position."

 

 

I talked to Serhad today and they are very pleased with the performance.

Winds were a bit lighter on the second day with 12 to 15 knots

The day before where they had some big gusts to 30 knots; he said the boat is very solid and no problems.

Performance is obviously great finishing first and correcting easily in both races.

He added that they are finishing approx. 2 minutes ahead of the Farr 25 in a 6 mile course, and catching up to the larger boats in the IRC fleet.

 

We should have some video of the windy race later this week, and we’ll make sure to post.

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Great video. Looks like a great deal of fun to be had. My only concern is the number of crew in most of these videos. With a max crew weight of 340kg (from the GP26 Class page) that is only three of me or four smaller guys. I had a feeling these boats were designed for 4 or maybe 5 crew and all of the videos I see have 6-7 on board. Does the change in weight have a significant change in power and ability to drive to these speeds.

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Great video. Looks like a great deal of fun to be had. My only concern is the number of crew in most of these videos. With a max crew weight of 340kg (from the GP26 Class page) that is only three of me or four smaller guys. I had a feeling these boats were designed for 4 or maybe 5 crew and all of the videos I see have 6-7 on board. Does the change in weight have a significant change in power and ability to drive to these speeds.

 

VPP studies suggested that a heavier crew weight than GP26 class rule would be generally faster around a W/L track in 15 knots and above.

Sailing Melges 24s in Hawaii with 5 people aboard also showed the benefit; the gains up wind compensate for the losses downwind.

 

In the begining off the video you see a crew of 5, and in the windy race they had 6.

You could probably fit a 7th person but it would be VERY crowed getting through tacks and gybes.

 

The extra weight downwind slows the boat down (obviously), but they don;t seem to be having an issue with this . . . :D

 

In the conditions in the video with a guy or two missing, the boat would be a few knots faster downwind.

Upwind you'd be 1/2 a knot slower and want a flatter jib/mainsail

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I noticed in the video there is a lot of play/movement of the tiller arm, where is that coming from?

 

 

Boat No 1's tiller was the first tiller built, and not optimal - it doesn't fit the rudder head as well as it could, and tends to rotatee up a bit too easily; you'll see it doing this when the driver pulls the rudder to weather. It's not terrible and isn't affecting the race resullts, so it looks like they have learned to live with it.

 

I am in Hong Kong right now with Hull No 2 and the tiller has a much better fit; in fact it is a gorgeous thing; I'll get a photo to post.

The finish of this hull No 2 is fantastic - BETTER than the photos show - the quality is right up there with the best builders.

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Great video. Looks like a great deal of fun to be had. My only concern is the number of crew in most of these videos. With a max crew weight of 340kg (from the GP26 Class page) that is only three of me or four smaller guys. I had a feeling these boats were designed for 4 or maybe 5 crew and all of the videos I see have 6-7 on board. Does the change in weight have a significant change in power and ability to drive to these speeds.

 

VPP studies suggested that a heavier crew weight than GP26 class rule would be generally faster around a W/L track in 15 knots and above.

Sailing Melges 24s in Hawaii with 5 people aboard also showed the benefit; the gains up wind compensate for the losses downwind.

 

In the begining off the video you see a crew of 5, and in the windy race they had 6.

You could probably fit a 7th person but it would be VERY crowed getting through tacks and gybes.

 

The extra weight downwind slows the boat down (obviously), but they don;t seem to be having an issue with this . . . :D

 

In the conditions in the video with a guy or two missing, the boat would be a few knots faster downwind.

Upwind you'd be 1/2 a knot slower and want a flatter jib/mainsail

 

There were 6 people on board.

 

I was mostly behind the camera because of my weight (100 kg :))So the total weight was around 460 kg.

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How is the GP26 to sail shorthanded (2-3 up)? When you say it's faster on W/L with 6-7 people over 15 knots TWS, then is it massively overpowered 2-up at that wind strength?

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How is the GP26 to sail shorthanded (2-3 up)? When you say it's faster on W/L with 6-7 people over 15 knots TWS, then is it massively overpowered 2-up at that wind strength?

 

To quote what I posted previously,"VPP studies suggested that a heavier crew weight than GP26 class rule would be generally faster around a W/L track in 15 knots and above."

Essentially the GP26 4 person crew weight is too light for optimum performace in over 15 knots. 5 is better.

As the wind strength increases, and you need to sail upwind, extra crew will make the boat faster upwind.

 

A Gp 26 will be less over-powered with a short-handed crew of 3 than similar "powered up" sportsboats; the boat has a heavy bulb on a deep fin, and my design has a very stable hull form.

Would it be easy to sail a GP26 with 3 people in 15 knots or more?

A crew that small will need to be very, very good to set/gybe/take-down the spinnaker.

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How is the GP26 to sail shorthanded (2-3 up)? When you say it's faster on W/L with 6-7 people over 15 knots TWS, then is it massively overpowered 2-up at that wind strength?

 

To quote what I posted previously,"VPP studies suggested that a heavier crew weight than GP26 class rule would be generally faster around a W/L track in 15 knots and above."

Essentially the GP26 4 person crew weight is too light for optimum performace in over 15 knots. 5 is better.

As the wind strength increases, and you need to sail upwind, extra crew will make the boat faster upwind.

 

 

 

Hmm... you mean, it's like almost every other boat anybody's ever heard of in that respect?

:wacko:

 

It's a better question to ask if the added crew/weight gains enough upwind to make up for the loss downwind, but as always it depends on the specific conditions. I'd guess that in flat water, crew weight upwind would be less critical.

 

 

 

A Gp 26 will be less over-powered with a short-handed crew of 3 than similar "powered up" sportsboats; the boat has a heavy bulb on a deep fin, and my design has a very stable hull form.

Would it be easy to sail a GP26 with 3 people in 15 knots or more?

A crew that small will need to be very, very good to set/gybe/take-down the spinnaker.

 

These are the kinds of answers I'm looking for... is it a boat that I can sail with a crew that I can reasonably expect to round up; two or three good sailors (most likely my wife will be one of them most of the time, very knowledgable but dislikes being scared) and whoever else is standing around when I say "Hey let's go sailing."

 

It's a beauty and must be a blast to sail, unfortunately in our area we need shallow-water capability. It's very exciting to think of this becoming possible!

 

FB- Doug

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How is the GP26 to sail shorthanded (2-3 up)? When you say it's faster on W/L with 6-7 people over 15 knots TWS, then is it massively overpowered 2-up at that wind strength?

 

To quote what I posted previously,"VPP studies suggested that a heavier crew weight than GP26 class rule would be generally faster around a W/L track in 15 knots and above."

Essentially the GP26 4 person crew weight is too light for optimum performace in over 15 knots. 5 is better.

As the wind strength increases, and you need to sail upwind, extra crew will make the boat faster upwind.

 

A Gp 26 will be less over-powered with a short-handed crew of 3 than similar "powered up" sportsboats; the boat has a heavy bulb on a deep fin, and my design has a very stable hull form.

Would it be easy to sail a GP26 with 3 people in 15 knots or more?

A crew that small will need to be very, very good to set/gybe/take-down the spinnaker.

 

Jim, I will be looking forward to your 6m design, which sounds like it will better fit my needs (smaller crews, more stability than the current 20s)

 

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How is the GP26 to sail shorthanded (2-3 up)? When you say it's faster on W/L with 6-7 people over 15 knots TWS, then is it massively overpowered 2-up at that wind strength?

 

To quote what I posted previously,"VPP studies suggested that a heavier crew weight than GP26 class rule would be generally faster around a W/L track in 15 knots and above."

Essentially the GP26 4 person crew weight is too light for optimum performace in over 15 knots. 5 is better.

As the wind strength increases, and you need to sail upwind, extra crew will make the boat faster upwind.

 

A Gp 26 will be less over-powered with a short-handed crew of 3 than similar "powered up" sportsboats; the boat has a heavy bulb on a deep fin, and my design has a very stable hull form.

Would it be easy to sail a GP26 with 3 people in 15 knots or more?

A crew that small will need to be very, very good to set/gybe/take-down the spinnaker.

 

Jim, I will be looking forward to your 6m design, which sounds like it will better fit my needs (smaller crews, more stability than the current 20s)

Okay

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How is the GP26 to sail shorthanded (2-3 up)? When you say it's faster on W/L with 6-7 people over 15 knots TWS, then is it massively overpowered 2-up at that wind strength?

 

To quote what I posted previously,"VPP studies suggested that a heavier crew weight than GP26 class rule would be generally faster around a W/L track in 15 knots and above."

Essentially the GP26 4 person crew weight is too light for optimum performace in over 15 knots. 5 is better.

As the wind strength increases, and you need to sail upwind, extra crew will make the boat faster upwind.

 

 

 

Hmm... you mean, it's like almost every other boat anybody's ever heard of in that respect?

:wacko:

 

It's a better question to ask if the added crew/weight gains enough upwind to make up for the loss downwind, but as always it depends on the specific conditions. I'd guess that in flat water, crew weight upwind would be less critical.

 

 

A Gp 26 will be less over-powered with a short-handed crew of 3 than similar "powered up" sportsboats; the boat has a heavy bulb on a deep fin, and my design has a very stable hull form.

Would it be easy to sail a GP26 with 3 people in 15 knots or more?

A crew that small will need to be very, very good to set/gybe/take-down the spinnaker.

 

These are the kinds of answers I'm looking for... is it a boat that I can sail with a crew that I can reasonably expect to round up; two or three good sailors (most likely my wife will be one of them most of the time, very knowledgable but dislikes being scared) and whoever else is standing around when I say "Hey let's go sailing."

 

It's a beauty and must be a blast to sail, unfortunately in our area we need shallow-water capability. It's very exciting to think of this becoming possible!

 

FB- Doug

 

The hull's stability makes it much easier to sail than a Melges 24 by comparison.

New crew members will have an easier time getting used to the boat and not get taken out by the boom on the first gybe.

 

When the gust hits, the hull heels a bit and the heavy bulb at the end of the deep fin does it job remarkably well.

Added to this is an efficient rudder that stays immersed and will direct the boat wherever you want with little effort.

Forget spinning out of control and just hang on as the boat accelerates: :D

 

Have a look at the www.wraceboats.com website at the videos; check out the helmsman and what he is doing with the tiller - you don;t need much movement to keep this design tracking.

 

 

and the sailing photos we are getting back from Istanbul are just fantastic:

 

 

Curious what draft reduction would be needed?

Maybe this conversation would be better shifted to the current thread on that topic?

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...

 

Curious what draft reduction would be needed?

Maybe this conversation would be better shifted to the current thread on that topic?

 

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack anything.

 

FB- Doug

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Video from the windy race past weekend.

 

It's great watching the downwind video with the boat so stable, in control and sustainng speeds that can be frightening in other boats.

 

Also, if you look at the sea state around the boat, it is not surfing in this video but over-running and blasting through a small chop which is slowing the boat down.

In an ocean swell the boat would be going several knots faster.

 

The following sequence that occurs from 1:38 to 1:41 in the video shows the boat spear a larger wave at over 19 knots.

Bow doesn't dig in but just comes through without a problem.

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A no recess rule doesn't make it so that you can't have a drop keel since when the boat's measured (i.e with the keel down) there is no recess. I'm sure if you had asked the rules tech people they'd have told you that - if they didn't then they don't understand English. Only restiction with a drop keel is it does prevent you from doing some things like certain kinds of sweep etc. No way I'd be buying an 8m boat that weighs fuck all and then need to have cranes to take it out of the water and a high boy trailer and all that shit. And really how much weight is it going to add to the boat? As for the retractable underhung rudder Heribertos pics show one way and the Firebird 26 catamaran also has them. A boat like thins shouldn't have a transom hung rudder.

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Hi Speng,

The GP 26 rule specifies a "recess" not greater than 20 litres in volume for the purpose of keel attachment and that the keel when fitted totally fills the recess.

A recess ( Webster's) is not a trunk and to bring a trunk safely above the waterline may well require a volume greater than allowed. As an IM in 3 classes I am quite sure that a rule change is required. As an owner of a deep fitted keel, non-retractable rudder and really tall custom trailer Donovan designed GP 26, I would be happy to propose the rule change. I think that the concern people have about water access is well founded and the class is open to the modification. Having said that, I also think that for official class events once they get started venues will need to be selected so that all boats can race. I am pretty sure rule wording can be submiited and the rule adjusted before the 2013 version is published.

Best regards,

Kevin

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Hi Speng,

The GP 26 rule specifies a "recess" not greater than 20 litres in volume for the purpose of keel attachment and that the keel when fitted totally fills the recess.

A recess ( Webster's) is not a trunk and to bring a trunk safely above the waterline may well require a volume greater than allowed. As an IM in 3 classes I am quite sure that a rule change is required. As an owner of a deep fitted keel, non-retractable rudder and really tall custom trailer Donovan designed GP 26, I would be happy to propose the rule change. I think that the concern people have about water access is well founded and the class is open to the modification. Having said that, I also think that for official class events once they get started venues will need to be selected so that all boats can race. I am pretty sure rule wording can be submiited and the rule adjusted before the 2013 version is published.

Best regards,

Kevin

 

The purpose of the 20 litre recess rule is not very obvious, and it doesn't make sense to prevent a 26 foot yacht from having a lift keel for trailer transport.

The beam of the yacht has been held within trailering limits, so the boat should be allowed to have a keel arrangement that is also suited for trailering.

 

I have towed a lot of yachts this size thousands of miles, and quite honestly I prefer having the boat up high on the trailer.

You can see under the hull which makes merging into traffic and lanes changes far easier.

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As an owner of a deep fitted keel, non-retractable rudder and really tall custom trailer Donovan designed GP 26...

 

Mr. Farrar- Have enjoyed following your project. Neat boat! How much clearance will be required for that deep fitted keel on a tall custom trailer beneath a hoist?

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Mr. Donovan- Are the Farrar and Windseeker hull shapes identical?

yes thay are identical. Some differences in deck, internal parts. because Farrar is one off.

 

Early on there was mention of the Farrar boat losing some fullness in the bow.

Enhanced upwind performance in chop? Tad slower to plane?

Comment, JD?

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Mr. Donovan- Are the Farrar and Windseeker hull shapes identical?

yes thay are identical. Some differences in deck, internal parts. because Farrar is one off.

 

Early on there was mention of the Farrar boat losing some fullness in the bow.

Enhanced upwind performance in chop? Tad slower to plane?

Comment, JD?

 

It's quite a samll difference in shape - basically Kevin's boat came out of his plug with a slight hollow in the very fwd end of the boat and he liked the shape.

The perfromance difference willnot be noticable.

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As an owner of a deep fitted keel, non-retractable rudder and really tall custom trailer Donovan designed GP 26...
Mr. Farrar- Have enjoyed following your project. Neat boat! How much clearance will be required for that deep fitted keel on a tall custom trailer beneath a hoist?
Kevins reports his Bulb is 6" off the pavement, which equates to about a 12 foot min crane clearance requirement.

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Jim, I know the boat is Cat 3 compliant, are there modifications that would need to be done to make it Cat 2 compliant?

 

Thanks!

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Jim, I know the boat is Cat 3 compliant, are there modifications that would need to be done to make it Cat 2 compliant?

 

Thanks!

 

The inboard engine requirement is the biggest challenge; please let's not get too focused on how that might work in a GP26!

To make an inboard install work w/minimal performance detriment is possible, but not cheap.

I can't imagine there would be very much need to even consider this.

 

My suggestion is that if you if you want to do a Cat 2 race, find a friend with a larger yacht :)

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Sorry, I should have said aside from inboard engine. There are lots of medium distance races that are calling for yachts basically capable of Cat 2, excluding the engine requirement.

 

I'll review and ask specific questions. For example, I understand that Kevin's boat has "watertight" compartments that may or may not be in the Windseeker boats as part of the standard build. Is that correct?

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the keel frame is laminated. With multiple and multiple layers of carbon...

here is a picture.

 

Hi!

I have a question for something you did long time ago.

Is the keel frame only carbon?

What about the bonding between e-glass on the inside of the hull and the carbon of the keel frame?

How does that work and with sharing strenght and stiffness of e-glass and carbon?

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the keel frame is laminated. With multiple and multiple layers of carbon...

here is a picture.

 

Hi!

I have a question for something you did long time ago.

Is the keel frame only carbon?

What about the bonding between e-glass on the inside of the hull and the carbon of the keel frame?

How does that work and with sharing strenght and stiffness of e-glass and carbon?

 

its not the reinforcement that 'bonds' , its the resins

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I understand it is all about resin, epoxy resin.

But what about people said that you can't put a layer of e-glass and than a layer of carbon (or more)?

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Ofcourse it was built by the gp26 rules.

 

Maybe I didn't ask my question clearly.

If there are glass and carbon laminated over the same place that is high tech laminates.

Carbon and glass have different strenght and stiffness, different elongation before break.

So they aren't working very well together.

How did you deal with that?

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from what I see they are two quite separate pieces bonded together

 

so they are not laminated 'together' as such,

 

I agree one will have different properties than the other, but that would also be the case if hypothetically the keel frame was SS or titanium.

 

I agree with your point particularly if the item happened to flex alot, or was meant to flex i.e. strut of spar,

OR the item(s) were approaching their limits but they would be built far in excess of that

 

Bear in mind hybrid fabrics (aramid/carbon) are often used to combine properties & get the best of both worlds

 

no doubt Jim or Windseeker can give the engineers explanation

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Thanx for answer, if Jim or Windseeker could give us engineers explanation that would be great!

 

One more question.

I noticed that people said in this or another gp26 thread how it is hard to build them to class minimum, near 1000kg.

I understand and belive that.

 

I dont understand how australian sports boat like T8sc is a little longer but lighter.

How they do it?

T8sc

LOA 8m

Complete boat 855kg

 

Racing verison T8r

LOA 8m

Complete boat 750kg

 

And boat of them carry more sails probably because square top mains.

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I have a different question. I've seen the mast that Kevin is putting in his boat and it is a pretty beefy carbon section, seems very stiff.

 

Can you put a pic or link to his mast?

His design or someone engineer it?

Thanx.

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from what I see they are two quite separate pieces bonded together

 

so they are not laminated 'together' as such,

 

I agree one will have different properties than the other, but that would also be the case if hypothetically the keel frame was SS or titanium.

 

I agree with your point particularly if the item happened to flex alot, or was meant to flex i.e. strut of spar,

OR the item(s) were approaching their limits but they would be built far in excess of that

 

Bear in mind hybrid fabrics (aramid/carbon) are often used to combine properties & get the best of both worlds

 

no doubt Jim or Windseeker can give the engineers explanation

 

Framing made of materials of quite different properties than the hull shell has been common practice in racing yachts for quite some time.

Below is a photo of a 1936 America's Cup yacht withe steel frames and wood planking.

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I have a different question. I've seen the mast that Kevin is putting in his boat and it is a pretty beefy carbon section, seems very stiff. How are you feeling about the Pauger masts in your builds? Are they stiff enough? Would you go stiffer than what they are now? any problems tuning or keeping the tune in the rig?

 

The GP 26 rule restricts mast tube dimensions and weight.

The resulting mast is quite strong and stiff - you will appreciate this with the large spinnaker propelling the boat at speeds exceeding 20 knots.

 

The Pauger section was developed specifically for the GP 26.

The Hall section uses an existing section with laminate designed to maximise stiffness within GP26 rules

There are additional sections that will be available

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How many gp26 are out there sailing?

Do you know their weight?

 

There are more than 10, and less than 100 GP26's out there sailing.

 

They will weigh not less than 1000kg, and not much more than 1000kg.

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I have a different question. I've seen the mast that Kevin is putting in his boat and it is a pretty beefy carbon section, seems very stiff.

 

Can you put a pic or link to his mast?

His design or someone engineer it?

Thanx.

 

Hall Spars

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How many gp26 are out there sailing?

Do you know their weight?

 

Estimate 25+ saling now; with the fleet expanding this year.

 

Weights are difficult to determine unless the boats have been measured.

 

Our hull 1 was weighed for IRC, and in GP26 class measurement trim weighs 1005kg.

 

There were some early examples of GP 26 built in timber that weighed near the limit (possibly over).

There was some discussion about raising the maximum allowable weight, but fortunately this did not happen.

 

I know that the boat in SF is near minimum wieght, as are the boats my friend Martin Billoch designed in Argentina.

 

When I mention it is "difficult" to build a GP 26 to minium wieght, this is due in large part to the size of the boat (freeeboard and internal volume requirments) and the requirement to meet a scantling rule for the structures. Normal production boat building methods will yield boats near maximum weight.

 

The Windseeker boats are built like a carefully constructed custom yacht to control excess weight.

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from what I see they are two quite separate pieces bonded together

 

so they are not laminated 'together' as such,

 

So is there glass on the inside of the hull and carbon on the keel frame so there are two separate pieces bonded together?

Or there is keel frame with multiple layers of e-glass and carbon laminated together?

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How many gp26 are out there sailing?

Do you know their weight?

 

Estimate 25+ saling now; with the fleet expanding this year.

 

Weights are difficult to determine unless the boats have been measured.

 

Our hull 1 was weighed for IRC, and in GP26 class measurement trim weighs 1005kg.

 

When I mention it is "difficult" to build a GP 26 to minium wieght, this is due in large part to the size of the boat (freeeboard and internal volume requirments) and the requirement to meet a scantling rule for the structures. Normal production boat building methods will yield boats near maximum weight.

 

 

What about those GP26 in Argentina, I read somewhere that they are over 1100kg?

 

1005kg is excellent, congratulations on that.

Is that ready for sail just except sail?

 

You said that normal production method isn't good for building GP26 near minimum weight, can I ask what method you had in mind?

Hand lay up?

What method would you recommend, vacuum baging, prepeg, infusion?

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Nrg85, read the "Latest GP26 Starts Up" thread from the start and those questions will be answered in just the first few pages.

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I read Kevin F. topic.

I see that I am bothering you all and that you know all the answers.

Perhaps that is the reason that you explain so well why is hard to build the boat to 1000kg when in australia they bulid bigger ones to 855kg.

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I don't have any issues answering questions; I am typically very happy to do so.

 

A careful read of the GP 26 class rules will answer a lot of the questions; if you are seriously interested in the class this is a good place to start.

 

As far as comparing weights, I am always suspect of "advertised" weights; these sometimes don't match up with as-built measurements.

I will not give you misleading information about my designs; the weight information has been taken from actual measurents, not calculations.

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I have this problem when I talk to people about boats of different sizes. Most people think only of the length of the boat -- overall length. The thing is, boats are 3 dimensional objects. They have different shapes. Those light sportboats down under are small for their length. Just like the Viper is small for it's length. You can not compare the difficulty of building a viper to it's weight with the difficulty of building a melges 20 or a U20 to the same weight, or even a cal 20. The viper is a smaller boat, even though it is approximately the same length. A single scull (http://www.empacher....ote/1x_R_e.html) even longer, and they weigh 85 - 100 kg. It's a little like explaining the difference between peeling an apple and peeling an orange. It is very difficult to peel an apple with your bare hands.

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Good grief! I really didn't think you were serious asking that question. THEY ARE DIFFERENT CLASSES OF BOAT.

 

 

Somebody on the wrong foot...

 

They are different class boats, I didn't ask why gp26 isn't lighter, it's balast to hull ratio is very good and balast carry a lot of weight so overall weight of the boat is great.

I asked how is the other boat build that much lighter and I was interested in building methods about building light boat.

 

I have read Kevin F. thread and thanx for the compliment. I haven't been told that I am lazy for a long time

 

 

2 Jim Donovan:

Thank you for the info.

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I have this problem when I talk to people about boats of different sizes. Most people think only of the length of the boat -- overall length. The thing is, boats are 3 dimensional objects. They have different shapes. Those light sportboats down under are small for their length. Just like the Viper is small for it's length. You can not compare the difficulty of building a viper to it's weight with the difficulty of building a melges 20 or a U20 to the same weight, or even a cal 20. The viper is a smaller boat, even though it is approximately the same length. A single scull (http://www.empacher....ote/1x_R_e.html) even longer, and they weigh 85 - 100 kg. It's a little like explaining the difference between peeling an apple and peeling an orange. It is very difficult to peel an apple with you bare hands.

 

Thank you for your complete normal answer!

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Addressing build weights, here are my comments:

 

Nroose is exactly right; to make a comparison between the build wieght of any 2 boats is not a simple matter.

 

Where two 8m long boats may "look" alike, they can be quite dissimilar when you actual examine them in detail.

 

Actual as-built weights need to be the basis of comparison, as well as the surface areas of the structures, scantlings the boat is built to, materials used, and the outfit/equipment spec of the boats.

To deliver factual information requires this time consuming examination process.

 

More typically we see uninformed opinions as the basis of comparisions between boats.

I don't see the value in that . . .

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Limited time offer boats ordered from USA,

Good for boats orders filled in pairs and good until Kevin's launch...

 

GP 26 Standard boat with specifications found on here

Delivered to NY Port 50,000 USD (+ VAT if applicable)

 

Some details:

Choice of Harken or antal equipment

Pauger Mast shipped in 2 pieces to be attached at delivery

Color hull#1 Gray

 

for further info please pm me

 

Limited time offer about to expire with severeal strong leads...

It is very likely Kevin will have some competiton from Wraceboats GP26s... :rolleyes:

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Uh oh. This is bad. The wife is in denial/worried as I start to go into full lizard brain mode. Must. Buy. Sailboat..... Drool......

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I have this problem when I talk to people about boats of different sizes. Most people think only of the length of the boat -- overall length. The thing is, boats are 3 dimensional objects. They have different shapes. Those light sportboats down under are small for their length. Just like the Viper is small for it's length. You can not compare the difficulty of building a viper to it's weight with the difficulty of building a melges 20 or a U20 to the same weight, or even a cal 20. The viper is a smaller boat, even though it is approximately the same length. A single scull (http://www.empacher....ote/1x_R_e.html) even longer, and they weigh 85 - 100 kg. It's a little like explaining the difference between peeling an apple and peeling an orange. It is very difficult to peel an apple with your bare hands.

 

They actually weigh 14 kg (minimum weight) - the 85-100kg is the rower weight.........

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I have this problem when I talk to people about boats of different sizes. Most people think only of the length of the boat -- overall length. The thing is, boats are 3 dimensional objects. They have different shapes. Those light sportboats down under are small for their length. Just like the Viper is small for it's length. You can not compare the difficulty of building a viper to it's weight with the difficulty of building a melges 20 or a U20 to the same weight, or even a cal 20. The viper is a smaller boat, even though it is approximately the same length. A single scull (http://www.empacher....ote/1x_R_e.html) even longer, and they weigh 85 - 100 kg. It's a little like explaining the difference between peeling an apple and peeling an orange. It is very difficult to peel an apple with your bare hands.

 

They actually weigh 14 kg (minimum weight) - the 85-100kg is the rower weight.........

 

Ah. Thanks for the correction. I was thinking it sounded heavier than I remembered (from 20 years ago!). But it makes the point even more salient. The length of an object is not a good predictor of weight (or even cost/value), and that holds for boats, unless you assume everything else is the same.

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like you've pony'd up and bought one ?

 

gotta be the best value out there .. WHY not

 

If that is what you feel why haven't you bought one? How many have been sold to date? Hull#2 to Asia without the cutouts in the cockpit and then Hull#1 demo boat was for sale....., but now a new option to have a lifting keel.....

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