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chesirecat

Info on possible challengers - where ever you are

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The only stuff I can find so far is, well, underwhelming after previous AC's

 

COR they've been very quiet in the press. Can they afford it or will BMWO lend them a few quid?

ETNZ press noisy but nothing concrete -

Rumour from MW

TO, again noises in press but nothing concrete, even just barely mixed concrete.

 

Have I missed anyone and have some deposit cheques been cashed we don't know about?

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have some deposit cheques been cashed we don't know about?

 

7.1 GGYC will accept additional challenges from 1 November 2010 until 31 March 2011.

 

 

So entry is not yet open.

 

Your general point however is correct. Given the general rule that at this stage there are 2-3 times as many teams talking up the intention to challenge as actually arrive on the startline, the silence is indeed deafening.

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From internet today:

"A French team will be officially presented on 30 September, reported Thursday the responsible for team France.

 

The project provisionally named Equipe Team France is organized around Bertrand Pace, specialist on catamaran and multihulls told to AFP Philippe Ligot , director general.

 

The funding , estimated at 50 million euros , is not yet closed and the equipment , with the support of the Federation French Sailing , is given a deadline until the end of February 2011 to reach this amount "

 

 

 

 

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The project provisionally named Equipe Team France is organized around Bertrand Pace, specialist on catamaran and multihulls told to AFP Philippe Ligot , director general.

 

 

As it was to be expected, there's no keeping Bertrand from boats with not just one but two, knife-sharp bows! :lol:

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Bundy with ETNZ

 

There's a long interview on TDS with Dean Barker today. Want to read the whole thing? Buy a subscription then! My summary is below: fair and balanced remarks from a professional IMO.

 

No discussion of money raising or whether or not they will be in. Assumption was they would be.

 

Straight into multihull training, including X40s in Almeira in October. Will use the ex-Geant ORMA 60 as training vessel.

 

BMWO has big head start but not unsurmountable. ETNZ won't know AC course until a month before launching boat 1. AC45s benefit BMWO most because it gives them the chance to design another wingsail multi.

 

More expensive than AC32. Got to be 2 boat given catamarans because 1st may be a dog. Big teams will want exclusive design team.

 

"In terms of (BWMO) being consultative.....they haven't" but protocol is "certainly not completely one-sided".

 

Would have expected 8-10 monohull teams. Bigger RC44s would have been "quite spectacular". "If they are wrong it could damage the sport for everyone." "Sad in a lot of ways.....you wonder if it is too extreme" but "it will be exciting".

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From internet today:

 

"A French team will be officially presented on 30 September, reported Thursday the responsible for team France.

 

The project provisionally named Equipe Team France is organized around Bertrand Pace, specialist on catamaran and multihulls told to AFP Philippe Ligot , director general.

 

The funding , estimated at 50 million euros , is not yet closed and the equipment , with the support of the Federation French Sailing , is given a deadline until the end of February 2011 to reach this amount "

 

More at VS

http://valenciasailing.blogspot.com/2010/09/equipe-team-france-headed-by-bertrand.html

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Artemis was supposedly going to be a potential challenger, but they haven't said a word since the multihull announcement. Anyone heard anything?

 

Some pretty negative dock talk at the Med Cup from both TO and Artemis - both saying they might well not do the AC. Could be just dock grumbling, or could be real, but they sure were not fired up about the AC.

 

The comments around on the French were 'no money yet, just fishing at this point'.

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Artemis will be in for sure. They are very busy trying to hire away anyone who was involved with BMWO for AC33.

 

Ironic considering that BMWO is letting them go and is replacing them with people from Alinghi.

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"...and then the final Louis Vuitton Trophy Dubai regatta in November before turning their attentions to multihull sailing in preparation for the America’s Cup."

 

From Sailworld today.

 

TO - so now three pos four probables.

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Just been told Synergy are almost certain to be in and that they will be part of the BOR/ML design group. It seems that BOR is offering to design boats for smaller teams as a bribe for them to enter........ although unlike ML, BOR isn't offering them the same 'B' team status. They will have to find their own crew rather than simply taking on staff allocated to them by BOR ;)

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Just been told Synergy are almost certain to be in and that they will be part of the BOR/ML design group. It seems that BOR is offering to design boats for smaller teams as a bribe for them to enter........ although unlike ML, BOR isn't offering them the same 'B' team status. They will have to find their own crew rather than simply taking on staff allocated to them by BOR ;)

 

 

Pfff.... If Larry is going to start bankrolling "challengers", I am unfortunately forced to withdraw my odds bid in the other thread.;)

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Is Synergy Russian? Wonder if they know how to laminate carbon there or if a construction crew will have to be flown over together with the hull molds ..

 

And it might even make sense for ETNZ to join the party as far as hulls and crossbeams are concerned: these aren't likely to be performance differentiators.

 

Can't say I'm enjoying any of this, though.

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a couple clips from here

http://sailracewin.b...me-40s-and.html

--

 

While Bertrand Pacé's Aleph team is set to make its announcements on Thursday, 30th September, this week, to include support from France's national sailing organisation, the Fédération Française de la Voile (FFVoile), the movement of the America's Cup was thought in some circles to heighten the interest of the many French multihull sailors in this competition.

...In regard to the future plans of the Franco-German syndicate, ALL4ONE Challenge, contacted yesterday, responded that they are "currently considering the option of campaigning on the Extreme 40 circuit in 2011". Top French match racers, Damien Iehl and Pierre-Antoine Morvan (PAM), have each indicated a desire to take up cat sailing and continue match racing, with a view to being able to gain experience towards helming a boat in the 34th America's Cup (see interview with Iehl by the APCC Voile Sportive reproduced below, on SailRaceWin.com).

 

While the change to multihulls has altered the emphasis on the match racing tactics involved, and the timeframe lends a sense of urgency toward finding the budget and R&D needed to mount a challenge, it is good to see that up-and-coming young match racer sailors are positive towards competing in the 34th edition of the America's Cup.

 

--

 

 

seen at the same site, a link to this

 

English

http://sailracewin.b...uture-blow.html

 

Italian, at ML

Mascalzone Latino: The Winds of the Future Blow from the Sea

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When will we see the first teams sailing in X40's? Will anyone be in Spain in October or will they wait till next year? How about the D35? Will we see teams in that series?

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When will we see the first teams sailing in X40's? Will anyone be in Spain in October or will they wait till next year? How about the D35? Will we see teams in that series?

 

Too lazy to find the links but yes:

 

ETNZ and TO are both likely to be in Spain soon facing each other in X40's. DB and BA probably at the helms of those beasts for the first time. Face to face, but also up against some awesome other match racing specialists, Loick Peyron included.

 

It will definitely be aggressive, stay tuned.

 

 

 

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I don't think many AC teams will be seen in the D35. I seem to remember that Oracle tried that and they shooed them away.

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I don't think many AC teams will be seen in the D35. I seem to remember that Oracle tried that and they shooed them away.

 

Anyone know what the Extreme 40 order books are like these days.

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Anyone know what the Extreme 40 order books are like these days.

Not sure, but how smart was the move by Ocean Challenges to aquire the build rights recently!

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ETNZ and TO are both likely to be in Spain soon facing each other in X40's. DB and BA probably at the helms of those beasts for the first time.

I cannot be bothered to go back over years of press, but I am pretty certain that Ben has helmed an X40 in the past. I think he helmed one for a "Round the Island" the same year that Ellen Macarthur did it.

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Don't think cup teams will be in X40s as they'll be busy with AC45s next year.

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In a recent TDS piece (think it was) GS also suggested they are looking at M2's. Presumably on Lake Geneva? He didn't say.

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Anyone know what the Extreme 40 order books are like these days.

Not sure, but how smart was the move by Ocean Challenges to aquire the build rights recently!

 

From Sailracewin

"It has now emerged that teams do need to purchase the AC45s, a direct outlay that Le Bras prices at 700,000-900,000 Euros, on top of the performance bond of US$3 million to be laid down as a condition of acceptance of challenge."

 

and

However, some, such as Sidney Gavignet, in the Café de la Marine broadcast from Lorient two weeks' ago, indicated that the America's Cup principally involves billionaires, (my bold) who are largely absent from much of the sponsorship world in French sailing. Moreover, as Gavignet also pointed out, sponsorship of sailing in France is very much focused on short-handed, long distance, often singlehanded races;"

 

Which bodes well for the Extremes.

 

I sometimes wonder if RC has been a bit too clever this time. Who has had the most imput for the new protocal RC or LE?

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In a recent TDS piece (think it was) GS also suggested they are looking at M2's. Presumably on Lake Geneva? He didn't say.

 

M2 that's a new one for me. Looks fun.

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Meanwhile - reality check? (from MW's blog):

 

"We expect an announcement in the near future but all the signs are saying that Team Origin will not be in the next Cup and that the Olympians will be unleashed to wreack havoc on their respective classes. Personally,if it's true, I'm utterly relieved."

 

........

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Meanwhile - reality check? (from MW's blog):

 

"We expect an announcement in the near future but all the signs are saying that Team Origin will not be in the next Cup and that the Olympians will be unleashed to wreack havoc on their respective classes. Personally,if it's true, I'm utterly relieved."

 

........

I have spoken to 2 team members in the last 24 hours and they have said they are pretty certain that TO is in.

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Meanwhile - reality check? (from MW's blog):

 

"We expect an announcement in the near future but all the signs are saying that Team Origin will not be in the next Cup and that the Olympians will be unleashed to wreack havoc on their respective classes. Personally,if it's true, I'm utterly relieved."

 

........

 

link?

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This is typical MW. Go back over everything he has ever posted and you will find that only about 10% of his predictions ever come true. The only way he gets any right is by throwing so much mud at the wall something sticks. Although I cannot rule it out, everything I have been told says that if TO do pull out, it will be because SKM doesn't believe that he can go to sponsors and assure them that the challengers have a fair crack at winning the Cup, not because of the "Tight 3".

 

I also love MW's comment that

 

Sir Keith must surround himself with more plugged in players who understand the game a bit more. That's really my main gripe
I wonder what MW wants! It seems to me that SKM has done exactly that with the last management shake up, or maybe MW thinks that GS doesn't understand the game and neither do any of the people he brought in! :blink:

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MW may be right about this though

"No one's got any money. Established teams are about to cancel their involvement. Everyone is nervous as hell about the new designs and everyone thinks Oracle are a zillion miles ahead in terms of R&D and wing technology. " rule69 blog

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I wonder what MW wants!

Is it possible SKM is desperate for increased Weymouth/Olympics interest, and focussed on the added sponsorship value it might bring if BA and Co are doing the British/heroes/nationalism whatever-sailing-thing? Is SKM making a business decision? Will BA and Co make us much, if SKM decides they are left to the Olympics? If GS fails to convince SKM, then what becomes of him? Will GS regret the pond scum he's needlessly been stirring up?

 

 

I hope they get an AC34 campaign figured out (honestly I do) but it's just been an amazingly bizarre organization over there so far.

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Is it possible SKM is desperate for increased Weymouth/Olympics interest

 

Firstly, the London Organising Committee of the Olympic Games and Paralympic Games, of which Keith Mills is vice-chairman, is a government-owned company. Keith Mills does not have a financial stake. Secondly, what goes on in Weymouth is alas a side-show. I'd love to be able to report that Britain is on the edge of its seat watching Olympic sailing but I'm afraid it is the track and field events that get the most attention.The organisation most fixed on increasing Weymouth/Olympic interest is the RYA, to which Mills has no connection.

 

I have zero insider knowledge of TO but I suspect it's about to withdraw. The risk/benefit just doesn't stack up for continued participation. Personally and given a 2013 date, I'd sooner the TO sailing team focussed on Olympic medals. That means more to me than the AC.

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I hope they get an AC34 campaign figured out (honestly I do) but it's just been an amazingly bizarre organization over there so far.

I fail to see how it has been bizarre. They seem to have done rather a lot more than every other potential challenger, except for ETNZ. So they have fired their CEO and hired one of the best in the business in what many see as a very good move. They are the only potential challenger who is ready to go and can make the decision without needing to secure sponsorship first. SKM and Charles Dunstone are prepared to continue bankrolling the team until they get sposorship and will continue to put money in if the sponsorship doesn't cover the whole costs.

 

Or are you saying that any team that questions what BOR is doing is bizarre? Are you sayinmg that potential challengers aren't allowed to engage in a discussion over what is fair and not. It comes down to the same thing time and again. A few BOR supporters on here keep attacking SKM/TO for their comments, which coincide with what the people at ETNZ are saying, but you all want to ignore the fact that nobody is coming oput with a contrary view to theirs (and ETNZ's), noone of the other (potential) challengers are saying they are wrong and none of them are saying that TO's views are contrary to what every other potential challenger is thinking.

 

The difference is that despite the efforts of some on here to suggest otherwise, TO is one of only 2 credible challengers at this moment. They have a full sailing team under contract, they have a full management team, they have back up staff and they have the funding (something that not even ETNZ can say). If entries opened tomorrow, I believe that they are the only team in a position to submit an entry, complete with entry fees, an order (with deposit) for an AC45 and a performance bond. What other team can say that? If vthe rumours are true, not even the COR is in that position at the moment!

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I hope they get an AC34 campaign figured out (honestly I do) but it's just been an amazingly bizarre organization over there so far.

I fail to see how it has been bizarre. They seem to have done rather a lot more than every other potential challenger, except for ETNZ. So they have fired their CEO and hired one of the best in the business in what many see as a very good move. They are the only potential challenger who is ready to go and can make the decision without needing to secure sponsorship first. SKM and Charles Dunstone are prepared to continue bankrolling the team until they get sposorship and will continue to put money in if the sponsorship doesn't cover the whole costs.

 

Or are you saying that any team that questions what BOR is doing is bizarre? Are you sayinmg that potential challengers aren't allowed to engage in a discussion over what is fair and not. It comes down to the same thing time and again. A few BOR supporters on here keep attacking SKM/TO for their comments, which coincide with what the people at ETNZ are saying, but you all want to ignore the fact that nobody is coming oput with a contrary view to theirs (and ETNZ's), noone of the other (potential) challengers are saying they are wrong and none of them are saying that TO's views are contrary to what every other potential challenger is thinking.

 

The difference is that despite the efforts of some on here to suggest otherwise, TO is one of only 2 credible challengers at this moment. They have a full sailing team under contract, they have a full management team, they have back up staff and they have the funding (something that not even ETNZ can say). If entries opened tomorrow, I believe that they are the only team in a position to submit an entry, complete with entry fees, an order (with deposit) for an AC45 and a performance bond. What other team can say that? If vthe rumours are true, not even the COR is in that position at the moment!

 

SimonN, are you sure thay have the funding?

who do you think can provide 100 millions euro in next 3 years? SKM himself ? jaguar? skandia? I do not think this to be so easy

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I do not think this to be so easy

 

Not easy for anyone, unless they have LE for a sugar-daddy. Did someone say "double-dip recession"? The perfect time to launch the most expensive MC AC ever.

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Did someone say "double-dip recession"? The perfect time to launch the most expensive MC AC ever.

 

Yes but - I know I keep repeating myself - it was a known factor and I just cannot believe Messrs. LE/RC got where they are without keeping their undoubtedly oversize hubris somewhat in check.

 

Ditto, my mind goes to those novel, juicy $270M - even a well funded, raring to go team owner would hem and haw before joining, as a negotiation tactic to get a guaranteed slice.

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Ditto, my mind goes to those novel, juicy $270M - even a well funded, raring to go team owner would hem and haw before joining, as a negotiation tactic to get a guaranteed slice.

 

Now that's an interesting thought.

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SimonN, are you sure thay have the funding?

who do you think can provide 100 millions euro in next 3 years? SKM himself ? jaguar? skandia? I do not think this to be so easy

It depends what you mean by "funding". They certainly haven't got 100m euro but that is higher than any estimate I have seen. I was told that SKM and Charles Dunstone have agreed that gthey will effectively guarantee a minimum amount that will allow for a modest but managable budget. They would hope to get other sponsors to provide funds which would both increase the budget and reduce their commitment. However, the bottom line is that if SKM agrees to go ahead, there is enough money there to allow tghem to enter immediately entries open. Can anybody else say that?

 

As an aside, I am pretty sure that Skandia won't be involved but I have no idea about Jaguar. Trying to read the tea leaves, I think they might be there as a significant but not title sponsor.

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a couple clips from here

http://sailracewin.b...me-40s-and.html

--

 

While Bertrand Pacé's Aleph team is set to make its announcements on Thursday, 30th September, this week, to include support from France's national sailing organisation, the Fédération Française de la Voile (FFVoile), the movement of the America's Cup was thought in some circles to heighten the interest of the many French multihull sailors in this competition.

 

I wonder if the Aleph will be first to 'announce'?

 

edit found something

http://www.leparisien.fr/sports/autres/bertrand-pace-et-aleph-en-route-vers-la-34e-coupe-de-l-america-30-09-2010-1089491.php

 

google-tran

Bertrand Pacé and ALEPH en route to the 34th America's Cup

| Respond 30.09.2010, 24:07

Bertrand Pacé ALEPH and the union have officially announced that they undertake in the 34th America's Cup in 2013 assuming a budget of 50 million euros for a three-year campaign with a desire to be the France team. Registration closes on 1 March 2011. It is still unclear which will host the playoffs and the Cup itself.Pacé, 49, former World Champion match racing since 1987 is a regular on the America's Cup, both with French unions or foreign (Team New Zealand and BMW Oracle).

 

 

 

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A little more here

http://www.ouest-france.fr/sport/ofbreves_-Coupe-de-l-America-Aleph-veut-etre-le-defi-francais_toutes-308546_filInfosport.Htm

 

g-tran:

 

America's Cup: Aleph wants to be the French challenge

 

During a press conference Thursday morning at the headquarters of the French Sailing Federation, heads of Aleph Sailing Team, draft tricolor challenge for the 34th America's Cup, presented their case. The goal for the CEO Philippe Ligot and skipper Bertrand Pace? Bringing 50 million euros for a clear challenge French, relying in particular on members of the France team match racing, Mathieu Richard (now No. 1 worldwide) in mind. Aleph, supported by the former coach of the France team handball, Daniel Costantini, is given until March 1 to raise some funds, the aim being to mount a competitive project.

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Bertrand Pacé ALEPH and the union have officially announced that they undertake in the 34th America's Cup in 2013

 

The devil, as always, is in the details - or, in this case, in the verb tenses: in the original it's not present, but future conditional ...

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from here

 

http://translate.goo...r:w%26prmd%3Div

 

aleph2010b.jpg

 

more here

http://translate.goo...r:w%26prmd%3Div

 

Do you hire foreign seamen?

L'idée, c'est d'avoir un team français. The idea is to have a French team. Maintenant, qu'il y ait quelques marins étrangers, ça me paraît quasiment obligatoire parce qu'il ya des compétences qu'on ne retrouve pas en France, notamment au niveau des wincheurs et des régleurs. Now, there are some foreign sailors, it seems almost mandatory because there are skills that are not found in France, notably at the grinders and trimmers. Mais l'essentiel de l'équipe sportive sera composée de marins français. But most of the sports team will consist of French sailors.

 

La construction du futur AC72 devra commencer dès l'été 2011, avez-vous déjà noué des contacts avec des chantiers ? Building the future AC72 will begin in summer 2011, have you already established contacts with yards?

Il ya plusieurs possibilités: des chantiers existants, deux-trois en France qui sont capables de construire un tel bateau, mais aussi celle de monter un chantier occasionnel. There are several possibilities of existing yards, two to three in France who are capable of building such a boat, but also to mount a casual site. Ce sera défini par les gens qui concevront le bateau. This will be defined by people who design the boat. Il faut savoir qu'il ya des contraintes incroyables, ces bateaux doivent être démontrés en 24 heures et remontés en 48 heures, ça va créer des impératifs de construction très spécifiques. You should know that there are tremendous constraints, these vessels must be demonstrated within 24 hours and replaced within 48 hours, it will create very specific building requirements. La partie structure sera une clé fondamentale dans le succès du projet. The party structure will be a fundamental key to the success of the project.

 

Les régates pourront être courues entre 3 et 33 noeuds, ça ne vous inquiète pas ? The regatta will be sailed between 3 and 33 knots, it does not concern you?

J'ai peu d'expérience en multicoque mais j'ai quand même fait plusieurs saisons à la tactique avec Franck Cammas et Karine Fauconnier sur leurs 60 pieds Orma. I have little experience on multihulls, but I still made several seasons at the tactical Franck Cammas and Karine Fauconnier on their 60 foot Orma. Et j'ai vu ce qu'étaient ces bateaux-là, ils sont extrêmement puissants, ça peut mal finir dès qu'il ya 18-20 noeuds de vent. And I saw what these boats there, they are extremely powerful, it can end badly when he is 18-20 knots of wind. Ce sera donc un vrai challenge, ne serait-ce que de sortir du port avec une aile rigide sur un bateau de 5,8 tonnes par 30 noeuds de vent ! This will be a real challenge, if only out of that port with a rigid wing on a 5.8 ton boat with 30 knots of wind! Et la limite de vent à 33 noeuds à 10 mètres de hauteur, ça veut dire à peu près 36-37 noeuds en haut d'un mât de 40 mètres ! And the limit of wind at 33 knots to 10 meters high, that means about 36-37 knots at the top of a mast of 40 meters! Il y aura donc des impératifs techniques compliqués à appréhender pour utiliser ces bateaux. There will therefore complicated to understand technical requirements to use these boats. C'est pourquoi l'AC45 (sorte de bateau-laboratoire de l'AC72 qui sera utilisé pour les trois pré-régates de 2011, ndlr) nous sera très utile pour prévenir et analyser tous les problèmes qu'on pourra rencontrer. Therefore the AC45 (kind of water AC72 laboratory that will be used for the three pre-regattas in 2011, ie) will be very useful to prevent and investigate any problems you may encounter.

 

 

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The 1.5 mill (or whatever it is) euro entry fee will most certainly separate the serious from the triflers.

 

There will not be any +39 type pub challengers.

 

 

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The 1.5 mill (or whatever it is) euro entry fee will most certainly separate the serious from the triflers.

 

There will not be any +39 type pub challengers.

 

 

 

 

of course that also rules out a sailing anarchy/clean wank fest challenge...

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The 1.5 mill (or whatever it is) euro entry fee will most certainly separate the serious from the triflers.

 

There will not be any +39 type pub challengers.

 

 

 

 

of course that also rules out a sailing anarchy/clean wank fest challenge...

 

Break out the champagne!

 

TK and Ro are in agreement!

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Aleph Team site

 

http://aleph-sailing.com/

 

 

Interesting that they seem pretty positive about the event, and apparently haven't picked up on all the negative issues posted here B).

Of course they are positive about the event. They are a group of professional sailors hoping to climb on the AC gravy train who, at the moment, have zero money. They wouldn't do very well with prospective sponsors if they went negative.

 

The people who are worth listening to are those with alternatives, such as ETNZ. They have cleverly got involved with other things so if they decide not to go for the AC, they still have jobs (or at least GD does!).

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Were/are ETNZ doing the Volvo?

Ever thought of trying doing a search, either on here or even Google? You might be suprised what you find.

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Aleph Team site

 

http://aleph-sailing.com/

 

 

Interesting that they seem pretty positive about the event, and apparently haven't picked up on all the negative issues posted here B).

Of course they are positive about the event. They are a group of professional sailors hoping to climb on the AC gravy train who, at the moment, have zero money. They wouldn't do very well with prospective sponsors if they went negative.

 

The people who are worth listening to are those with alternatives, such as ETNZ. They have cleverly got involved with other things so if they decide not to go for the AC, they still have jobs (or at least GD does!).

 

Well, but obviously teams with alternatives, such as ETNZ, are committed to participate in AC34. I guess that says it all...

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by SailRaceWin

 

The announcement that the Aleph Sailing Team, under Bertrand Pacé, wants to challenge for the 34th America's Cup is no surprise to anyone. However, setting itself up as 'the' French team, immediately brings some potential conflict within France with the Franco-German ALL4ONE Challenge, which latter has consistently been both far more active and achieved considerably better results on the international circuit than Aleph.

 

Furthermore, Aleph seems to be bringing relatively little to the table - mainly Bertrand Pacé's past experience in competing for the America's Cup over six cycles. No members of a sailing or design team were mentioned in the announcement in Paris yesterday. It appears that Aleph is seeking to attract those wanting to run for the America's Cup to do so under its banner with only the offer of Bertrand Pacé's previous experience (and he has never won the America's Cup) as motivation for so-doing. This would appear to offer very little incentive to those wishing to challenge to join with Aleph rather than setting up their own independent project(s), especially with the considerable changes to the format of the America's Cup for the 34th edition. contd

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Of course, I had to needle LP on Pacé's announcement - but he didn't bite ...

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Of course, I had to needle LP on Pacé's announcement - but he didn't bite ...

 

 

Yep - And the interviewer asked Pace about it too, at here. LP is going to be in high demand, is my guess. Cammas and others too. What does Bruno Peyron do, has he been into French multi-hulling?

--

 

 

 

You'll have to find skills multihull, have you ever contacted Loick Peyron with which you had tried to mount the project Team France?

For now, I have initiated any contact with the great French multihull expert, but everything is open. Rework with Loïck, why not? He has tremendous skills and I have great affinity with him, but now the goal is to assemble a team sport without necessarily a lot of stars. Loïck, I get it soon on the phone, we'll see if it can adhere to our values and if so, how can we work together. I have the year 2011 to complete a sports team of some twenty people.

 

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Were/are ETNZ doing the Volvo?

Ever thought of trying doing a search, either on here or even Google? You might be suprised what you find.

 

 

I did but was far too lazy and thought might get more interesting replies here. Lost interest in the Volvo after Laurie S

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Were/are ETNZ doing the Volvo?

Ever thought of trying doing a search, either on here or even Google? You might be suprised what you find.

 

 

I did but was far too lazy and thought might get more interesting replies here. Lost interest in the Volvo after Laurie S

Yes they are doing the Volvo and they have the Spanish company Camper as a major sponsor. There is also to be a stopover in Auckland.

 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/news/article/2010/APRIL/CAMPER-ANNOUNCEMENT-120410/

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Were/are ETNZ doing the Volvo?

Ever thought of trying doing a search, either on here or even Google? You might be suprised what you find.

 

 

I did but was far too lazy and thought might get more interesting replies here. Lost interest in the Volvo after Laurie S

Yes they are doing the Volvo and they have the Spanish company Camper as a major sponsor. There is also to be a stopover in Auckland.

 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/news/article/2010/APRIL/CAMPER-ANNOUNCEMENT-120410/

Thanks for that. It seems more if a GD thinghy under ETNZ name.

Anyhow back to AC. When the protocal was anounced I just had a strong feeling the the wing just tipped thee scales, it was too much too soon.

 

Just COR at the moment then -

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Well, one thing's for sure: if the City deal comes through and then Larry doesn't produce eight challengers, he'll be tarred and feathered.

 

Remember my prediction of a $20M "starter's bonus" to every challenger that SR loved so much? I think that after TO's defection we should be nearly there.

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Well, one thing's for sure: if the City deal comes through and then Larry doesn't produce eight challengers, he'll be tarred and feathered.

 

Remember my prediction of a $20M "starter's bonus" to every challenger that SR loved so much? I think that after TO's defection we should be nearly there.

 

 

What do you intend to buy for yourself, with your cut of what Larry supposedly gives out? A paid subscription to the LR website?

 

Dream on :)

 

The numbers in SF do not add up. LE will have to contribute a LOT compared to taking a better offer. Fortunately, for a SF event there will be no necessity to bribe Italian also-ran non-teams.

 

Did he save SKM's TO? No!

 

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Again:

 

Well, one thing's for sure: if the City deal comes through and then Larry doesn't produce eight challengers, he'll be tarred and feathered.

 

 

Challengers have now got Larry over a barrel .. :P

 

And remember, he who bribes is more guilty than who pockets the bribe.

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Again:

 

Well, one thing's for sure: if the City deal comes through and then Larry doesn't produce eight challengers, he'll be tarred and feathered.

 

 

Challengers have now got Larry over a barrel .. :P

 

And remember, he who bribes is more guilty than who pockets the bribe.

 

Yep - That is the threat TO tried to play this week in Paris.

 

How well did that turn out? Wanna try that too?

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What does Bruno Peyron do, has he been into French multi-hulling?

A rhetorical question, mayhaps!

 

For the benefit of the unfamiliar here, Bruno, big brother to Loick, was the first skipper to round the world in less than 80 days in 1994, aboard his 80-foot catamaran Innovation Explorer, making him the first winner of the Jules Verne Trophy His lone Anglo in a crew of frogs was America's Cam Lewis.

 

After that Peyron organized the Race of the Millennium. Since then he's rounded the globe twice more, in '02 and '05, each time setting new Jules Verne records. He has the organizational skills, the sailing skills and the commercial contacts to field a French challenger but his interests seem to lie offshore.

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Again:

 

Well, one thing's for sure: if the City deal comes through and then Larry doesn't produce eight challengers, he'll be tarred and feathered.

 

 

Challengers have now got Larry over a barrel .. :P

 

And remember, he who bribes is more guilty than who pockets the bribe.

 

Yep - That is the threat TO tried to play this week in Paris.

 

How well did that turn out? Wanna try that too?

 

I maintain that TO's withdraw was a self inflicted wound due to Mills effort with the Olympics and the associated schedule conflict with AC 34.

 

He had a potential team to contend with the necessary time and experience - they didn't have the bandwidth for both events. If the cup was scheduled for 2014, it may have been a different story.

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Were/are ETNZ doing the Volvo?

Ever thought of trying doing a search, either on here or even Google? You might be suprised what you find.

 

 

I did but was far too lazy and thought might get more interesting replies here. Lost interest in the Volvo after Laurie S

Yes they are doing the Volvo and they have the Spanish company Camper as a major sponsor. There is also to be a stopover in Auckland.

 

http://www.volvoocea...NCEMENT-120410/

Thanks for that. It seems more if a GD thinghy under ETNZ name.

Anyhow back to AC. When the protocal was anounced I just had a strong feeling the the wing just tipped thee scales, it was too much too soon.

 

Just COR at the moment then -

Except for the simple fact that BMWO pulled off the biggest wing ever built, subsequently modified it, and won the cup in just 4 months time.

 

These guys have three years to figure it out.

 

This is the AC - pull it together.

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Except for the simple fact that BMWO pulled off the biggest wing ever built, subsequently modified it, and won the cup in just 4 months time.

 

These guys have three years to figure it out.

 

This is the AC - pull it together.

 

 

 

Yes they could catch up to where larry was but then again larry has the same time to get that much further ahead . How long and more importantly how much money will it take for them to learn what larry already knows about big wing tech in a " match racing " multi ? It is quite clear that the smart money is going to be staying in the wallet this time around .

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So they'll keep their money in their wallet and fall further behind. That's ok - weak competitors will not prevail.

 

The same philosophy applies in the semiconductor memory business, which is why the Japanese have failed - no balls.

 

This is the AC, not an optimist regatta.

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So they'll keep their money in their wallet and fall further behind. That's ok - weak competitors will not prevail.

 

The same philosophy applies in the semiconductor memory business, which is why the Japanese have failed - no balls.

 

This is the AC, not an optimist regatta.

 

Exactly. The best thing that ever happened to the AC is that pussy sailors like Keith Mills get eliminated early. If the rules were adjusted to allow flimsy teams to enter, the game would be full of flimsy British sailors. Hey Mills, I understand that CNEV is doing a yearly optimist race in Spain - maybe you could enter there?

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Were/are ETNZ doing the Volvo?

Ever thought of trying doing a search, either on here or even Google? You might be suprised what you find.

 

SimonN, think this is your most recent post and it came before TO folded.

 

Everyone is attributing whatever they want, on the supposed implications to AC34 of TO's non-involvement. And apparently it was not a good fit for them, or at least for SKM's ability to raise funds. But what do the likes of Adam May and others have to say about it now? Presumably they are perfectly free to talk, so why the silence? I assume they did want to compete, right?

 

Got anything, direct or indirect?

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SimonN, .....Got anything, direct or indirect?

 

30th September "I have spoken to 2 team members in the last 24 hours and they have said they are pretty certain that TO is in." http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=113739&st=0&p=3009549entry3009549

 

Sorry, not sure Simon's contacts in TO are/were necessarily well informed in this instance.

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SimonN, .....Got anything, direct or indirect?

 

30th September "I have spoken to 2 team members in the last 24 hours and they have said they are pretty certain that TO is in." http://forums.sailin...9

 

Sorry, not sure Simon's contacts in TO are/were necessarily well informed in this instance.

 

It does appear to have come as a surprise, maybe even a 'shock' as Laven in the Telegraph had it. To even GS, and so presumably it came so from BA 'on down' too.

 

What nobody apparently had a good handle on, was what the private matter of what SKM's situation was, financially. GS had been saying that it was going to cost E100M (ETNZ was saying NZ100M, right? much different, if so), and GS was saying the design spending better start right now; and as of now, SKM had nobody willing to help him carry enough of the load. And that is what everyone found out just yesterday, to their great surprise. They thought he had it covered, when he never did. That's my guess. So they will all be feeling let down.

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What nobody apparently had a good handle on, was what the private matter of what SKM's situation was, financially.

 

You would be wrong to try to put all this to KM finances. If the LE/RC proposal can only be sustained by billionaires staking their money, then this vision is dead in the water.

 

What you should try to understand is why he passes over the AC, when he had a team geared up for it. He says it is not viable commercially. Maybe you should give some credibility to that. We will see what TO does from now on, will the keep together as a team focused on other ventures, or dissolve into the mist. That will be interesting to see.

 

However, again, Larryvision is all about commercial success, but that has to be proven. So far, I say bad news on Origin jumping ship. I doubt it is out of stupidity or lack of effort to make it work.

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To give some sympathy to SimonN's contacts, my usually-fairly-well connected source thought they would continue.

 

As Dogwatch stated earlier: this is not the time to cancel the campaign on money not being available. It is the time to state that things are inherrently unachievable. Whether that is cash or winning we will probably never know.

 

Respect, frankly, to Keith Mills for making a strong decision quickly.

 

And to all the BO supporters. RC has said he would rather have 10 teams capable of winning it than 18 also-rans.

 

How many teams are there that will capable of winning it?

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What nobody apparently had a good handle on, was what the private matter of what SKM's situation was, financially.

 

You would be wrong to try to put all this to KM finances. If the LE/RC proposal can only be sustained by billionaires staking their money, then this vision is dead in the water.

 

What you should try to understand is why he passes over the AC, when he had a team geared up for it. He says it is not viable commercially. Maybe you should give some credibility to that. We will see what TO does from now on, will the keep together as a team focused on other ventures, or dissolve into the mist. That will be interesting to see.

 

However, again, Larryvision is all about commercial success, but that has to be proven. So far, I say bad news on Origin jumping ship. I doubt it is out of stupidity or lack of effort to make it work.

I did lend it credibility. The 'help' I was referring to was help from commercial sponsors such as Jaguar, Henri Lloyd, whoever else he approached. We have always assumed SKM and Dunstone would fund some level of it personally, but they would have sponsors to fund the rest.

 

 

There are a number of contributing factors that SKM says led to his decisions. But many of them point to his inability to 'sell' the format, the boats, with enough success that he could get it done in a way that supports 'up to ten' (as he put it..?) events per year, and make 2013, which also conflicted with his Olympic interests, etc. By 'viable commercially' I do think he means 'viable in a business, dollars and cents' sense.

 

And I agree that LE's vision is to make it self-sustaining. They had the same goals in this sense. KM went to Paris and apparently told RC h did not believe it will achieve success; RC responded something like 'Well I am sorry to hear that, but we are confident that it will.' And KM said 'Okay, well I hope you are right, and good luck.'

 

RC in one piece got even more radical on this subject: He suggested (I forget where, maybe in TDS too) that starting in either the current or the next cycle, that syndicate owners (think he even called them 'investors') would in effect be getting into 'franchises' that will at some point become very valuable. It is language a lot like what we hear in American football and Basketball. RC believes that the AC can become a sporting success along much the same lines that those leagues enjoy; using a similar model.

 

Will it work? Become actually 'profitable' to compete for the Cup some day? No idea either, but its a grand enough vision that a relatively small-fish KM is not about to get in the way of the larger attempt.

 

There is another way to look at this and while SKM does not mention it directly, he does mention not wanting to be an also-ran (like in the TP52's, where apparently KM and Dunstone decided they had not achieved 'fun'); he says the main reason for him entering would be to win it. And then (me: presumably) to host an AC in England after he won, and perhaps himself play a leading role similar to what he has with the coming Olympics. But what if he looked at that prospect, and decided that even if he did put enough into the effort to win it, then the prize itself was not as 'viable commercially' as he had originally decided it was? The SF study suggested an economic impact spread across the region of $1.9B. But few people will get individually rich from it, it is spread pretty thin once the construction companies are done; and LE looks to be stuck with paying a lot of that construction bill himself. Maybe the game got too 'big' for KM? The fish is too unwieldy, if you do catch it by the tail? He may have sensed that he's a little out of his depth in this game.

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How many teams are there that will capable of winning it?

Far too soon to say. But GS said today that TO would have been capable of winning it. And DB has said it too, of ETNZ.

 

Just because TO made an announcement before the entry period even started, that they were not even going to make it to that start line, says nothing at all about what other more-quiet plans may be in play already. The TO operation always was a bit strange this way, with conflicting statements and poor timing and a generally poorly-run PR effort. If other teams instead choose to hit the ground already running, it will not surprise me at all; it seems the smarter tactic in the first place. Don't mis-fire several times then sputter out early. Announce once, and off you go like a winning race horse!

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It does appear to have come as a surprise, maybe even a 'shock'

 

Hmmm . . . .well perhaps not a shock/surprise to everyone! . . . see below . . .

 

 

 

Some pretty negative dock talk at the Med Cup from both TO and Artemis - both saying they might well not do the AC. Could be just dock grumbling, or could be real, but they sure were not fired up about the AC.

 

The comments around on the French were 'no money yet, just fishing at this point'.

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Posted · Hidden by l-foraster, October 2, 2010 - No reason given
Hidden by l-foraster, October 2, 2010 - No reason given

It does appear to have come as a surprise, maybe even a 'shock'

 

Hmmm . . . .well perhaps not a shock/surprise to everyone! . . . see below . . .

 

 

Some pretty negative dock talk at the Med Cup from both TO and Artemis - both saying they might well not do the AC. Could be just dock grumbling, or could be real, but they sure were not fired up about the AC.

 

The comments around on the French were 'no money yet, just fishing at this point'.

 

 

Artemis are still moving forward and close to signing key commitments.

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It does appear to have come as a surprise, maybe even a 'shock'

 

Hmmm . . . .well perhaps not a shock/surprise to everyone! . . . see below . . .

 

 

 

Some pretty negative dock talk at the Med Cup from both TO and Artemis - both saying they might well not do the AC. Could be just dock grumbling, or could be real, but they sure were not fired up about the AC.

 

The comments around on the French were 'no money yet, just fishing at this point'.

Regarding "dockside talk". Is there anything anywhere of any possible challenger outside COR, I mean it's only 3/4 weeks till Nov 1st and any interested party really has to get motoring.

Any one signed up, gone quiet - rumours, Steve Clark tempted by offers, those going to the LV in Dubai, Core unusually busy?

This challenger silence almost feels 'arranged' it's so quiet.

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Will it work? Become actually 'profitable' to compete for the Cup some day? No idea either, but its a grand enough vision that a relatively small-fish KM is not about to get in the way of the larger attempt.

 

This is the kind of attitude I fail to understand. You say toy try to give him credibility, but then spurt this nonesense. Small fish, compared to who? Origin was a decent outfit by any standards, and if they can't make it, I would be worried. I would not try to dismiss it as some irrelevant ocurrence. Yes maybe there are bigger teams around, but for Larryvision, I think you want as many Origins as you can get. I do not see them lining up at this point. We will have to wait and see.

 

As I said before, this is very bad news. What we need is some teams to come out credibly to sign up. I am a bit dubious about the French announcent, too many conditional statements, plus federation involvement, smells odd. But few ACs back they signed up with almost nothing and eventually sticked a last minute sponsor and sailed a decent LV, never in contention but giving diversity to the series.

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there is a lot of

 

"we won't enter unless we are sure we have a good chance of winning"

 

imagine if that philosophy was used in the men's 100mtr final at the olympics

 

and usain bolt was running

 

there would be 1 maybe 2 other runners

 

should the race officials seek to slow the fastest

 

to improve competition?

post-23477-077315100 1286062300_thumb.jpg

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The ffv involvement w aleph could lead to govt involvement too, I would not cut them too short.

 

On KM follow the money hole down the RBS link that someone posted, for the inside game. He is broke.

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there is a lot of

 

"we won't enter unless we are sure we have a good chance of winning"

 

imagine if that philosophy was used in the men's 100mtr final at the olympics

 

and usain bolt was running

 

there would be 1 maybe 2 other runners

 

should the race officials seek to slow the fastest

 

to improve competition?

A more accurate analogy would be: would anyone bother entering if Usain Bolt was starting 20 metres in front of everyone else?!

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....

Will it work? Become actually 'profitable' to compete for the Cup some day? No idea either, but its a grand enough vision that a relatively small-fish KM is not about to get in the way of the larger attempt.

...

 

"Small=fish KM" still has a shitload more resources - or access to them - than, oh let's see...ETNZ!! Don't trip over your slobbering in your rush to try to belittle a decision which shoots even more holes in the hypocritical BMWO AC34 circus. RC and BMWO would be under directions from Ellison to land ETNZ for AC34 or they're all fucked. Dalton would be extracting some mega concessions from BMWO before they sign on the dotted line...

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