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Le Renard Subtil

bicycle winch

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From the front page- the guy who thinks you can't use your legs:

 

 

1man·u·al

adj \ˈman-yə-wəl, -yəl, -yü-əl\

Definition of MANUAL

1a : of, relating to, or involving the hands <manual dexterity> b : worked or done by hand and not by machine <a manual transmission> <manual computation> <manual indexing> 2: requiring or using physical skill and energy <manual labor> <manual workers>

 

I'm pretty certain the intent of the rule is definition 2. The alternative is ridiculous. We constantly, constantly use our legs to help move things on boats all the time. The list of things you do on a big boat (or any boat not set up for handicapped sailing) that require the leg muscles is practically endless. It seems to me that if you can't use your legs to power a winch, you can't stand over a deck block and use your legs to pull a line, you can't use your legs to stand on the cockpit seat and fight weather helm, you can't stand under a sail in the sewer and use your legs to boost a sail out of the hatch, et cetera, et cetera, et frickin cetera. This guy should use his time trying to make his own boat better, rather than waste everyone's time with this frivolous shit.

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From the front page- the guy who thinks you can't use your legs:

 

 

1man·u·al

adj \ˈman-yə-wəl, -yəl, -yü-əl\

Definition of MANUAL

1a : of, relating to, or involving the hands <manual dexterity> b : worked or done by hand and not by machine <a manual transmission> <manual computation> <manual indexing> 2: requiring or using physical skill and energy <manual labor> <manual workers>

 

I'm pretty certain the intent of the rule is definition 2. The alternative is ridiculous. We constantly, constantly use our legs to help move things on boats all the time. The list of things you do on a big boat (or any boat not set up for handicapped sailing) that require the leg muscles is practically endless. It seems to me that if you can't use your legs to power a winch, you can't stand over a deck block and use your legs to pull a line, you can't use your legs to stand on the cockpit seat and fight weather helm, you can't stand under a sail in the sewer and use your legs to boost a sail out of the hatch, et cetera, et cetera, et frickin cetera. This guy should use his time trying to make his own boat better, rather than waste everyone's time with this frivolous shit.

 

 

Pluse one!

 

(obee juan kenosbee ist coole!)

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There must be a cyclist on that boat. It looks like the crank arms also drive a front wheel. I'll guess that they can drive a generator and/or a bilge pump. I like that the aero bars are still on.

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From the front page- the guy who thinks you can't use your legs:

 

 

1man·u·al

adj \ˈman-yə-wəl, -yəl, -yü-əl\

Definition of MANUAL

1a : of, relating to, or involving the hands <manual dexterity> b : worked or done by hand and not by machine <a manual transmission> <manual computation> <manual indexing> 2: requiring or using physical skill and energy <manual labor> <manual workers>

 

I'm pretty certain the intent of the rule is definition 2. The alternative is ridiculous. We constantly, constantly use our legs to help move things on boats all the time. The list of things you do on a big boat (or any boat not set up for handicapped sailing) that require the leg muscles is practically endless. It seems to me that if you can't use your legs to power a winch, you can't stand over a deck block and use your legs to pull a line, you can't use your legs to stand on the cockpit seat and fight weather helm, you can't stand under a sail in the sewer and use your legs to boost a sail out of the hatch, et cetera, et cetera, et frickin cetera. This guy should use his time trying to make his own boat better, rather than waste everyone's time with this frivolous shit.

Damn it, you beat me to it. Well said.

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He sounds serious. Unsurprisingly he hasn't received a response to his barrage of e-mails addressed to the RdR organizers, who must have scratched their heads briefly before deleting. Why is this drivel on the front page? That's the more germane question.

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I can think of a reason not to do bike-style power on a boat, but rule 52 is not it. in waves, I would be a little concerned about having that seat shoved further up my ass, for example.

 

why did this get onto the front page?

 

edit: hard day's night beat me to it

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lots of drivel on the front page today ....

if folks dont understand the language.. look it up ...

 

 

and than that boat builder stuff....

I got news..built that boat and than sell it ...

dont write that much ..it keeps you from building boats

 

 

thor

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Looks like a great idea to me......obviously the intent of the rule is "human powered" not "hand powered". The hardest of jobs done with a regular old winch are best done using the entire body working together. Somebody should make sure when this guy sails, that he uses only his hands.........no arms allowed.

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Time to start testing these guys for doping...

 

Yeah you rite. Ya think someone's gonna pick up Armstrong as crew?

 

 

done :)

 

 

Lance Armstrong Joins Team Oracle BMW

printButton.pngemailButton.png

 

Written by Editor

 

1retweetb205bd4c5f3ee7a3046da31990025baabbce23d0_305x198_Q75.jpeg

 

For a bike ride that is. 3 of Oracle BMW's team members Ian "Fresh" Burns, Jono MacBeth and Brad Webb are, respectively, the design coordinator, grinder and bowman for BMW ORACLE Racing and in the in the pre-dawn hours of September 21st, however, they're Lance Armstrong followers.

 

 

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He is also wrong about Intrepid. Intrepid did not have leg driven bicycle-type winches. They had below deck coffee grinders whose pedestals extended down from the deck. As the boat would heel, the grinders were able to brace their legs on the side of the hull. Later the rule was changed to eliminate below deck winches for sail trimming (but possibly not for other uses).

 

Sverige raced twice; in 1977 and 1980. They had, among other things, a two part tiller (rudder and trim tab) which was unusual for a Twelve at that time (Although Lowell had a tiller that he attached to the wheel of Enterprise for steering upwind). I think the Swedish boat did have leg driven winches for their first challenge; don’t know if they stayed with that system for 1980.

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Beyond this guys obvious delusions of that being someone illegal.. when has that ever stopped the french multihull crowd from doing whatever the hell they want anyway?

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Video of bike in action:

 

http://www.cyclelicio.us/2010/bike-winch-sailboat/

 

Story about the bike from July:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:G5WX78EruhAJ:www.conradcolman.com/2010/07/cyclists-v-sailors/+groupama+3,+bike+winch&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

 

And June:

http://www.eta.co.uk/2010/06/30/100ft-trimaran-uses-bicycle-power

 

Funny how the cyclists were all over this before it was a topic here (though having said that I have guaranteed that someone will now correct me for having posted something about it back in May).

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I think it looks like a very cool idea, and would bet that it works pretty well. Big waves could insert that seat pretty far up there though...

 

 

Could go for a seat post with suspension. (if they make them any more...)

Or ---- full suspension mountain bike frame in carbon fiber.

You need a sprinter for sail changes and sheet work. Lance can do the endurance thing when they need the bilge pump.

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Anyone else notice the size of the gears on that bike? Wonder what the gear ratio is. It also looks like there are two platters on the crankset, one forward (flywheel?) and one back.

 

And I could swear that we already saw something about the Groupama bike on the front page some time ago, no?

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Amusingly enough, Cammas was asked during today's radio vacation if he used the bike. His answer was that he used it only during sail hoist or reefing, but that for trimming he exclusively used his arms, mainly because of a more favorable gearing ratio (higher speed, apparently, didn't explain why exactly).

 

M

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well, the guy seems to be hungarian, so maybe his english skills are not so good, but one (hungarian or not) must be simply stupid if he interpretates everything so literally.

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From the front page- the guy who thinks you can't use your legs:

 

Definition of MANUAL

1a : of, relating to, or involving the hands <manual dexterity> b : worked or done by hand and not by machine <a manual transmission> <manual computation> <manual indexing> 2: requiring or using physical skill and energy <manual labor> <manual workers>

 

I'm pretty certain the intent of the rule is definition 2.

It doesn't matter what the "intent" is. Unless the rule redefines the word "manual" it defaults back to the dictionary definition. Which specific dictionary is moot.

 

Professor Szeremley is just an attention whore, trying to convince himself how clever he is. :rolleyes:

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From the front page- the guy who thinks you can't use your legs:

 

Definition of MANUAL

1a : of, relating to, or involving the hands <manual dexterity> b : worked or done by hand and not by machine <a manual transmission> <manual computation> <manual indexing> 2: requiring or using physical skill and energy <manual labor> <manual workers>

 

I'm pretty certain the intent of the rule is definition 2.

It doesn't matter what the "intent" is. Unless the rule redefines the word "manual" it defaults back to the dictionary definition. Which specific dictionary is moot.

 

Professor Szeremley is just an attention whore, trying to convince himself how clever he is. :rolleyes:

+1

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The idea seems reasonable but it wasn't thought through all the way. Why does it need to have an aero, time trial front end?? Why does it have a wheel? It should also have a wider base pedal with something like Power Straps instead of toe clips for use with sailing boots.

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Theres a fine line between genius and stupidity...but that doesn't apply in this rant. God forbid I should use my shoulders or abs or chest muscles when grinding a winch with my manuals.

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He probably just didn't want to let those Latin lessons go to waste. It kind of reminds me of a guy I once had the misfortune to work with who went on about his raisin dater?!-it turned out that he only French he knew how to mangle was "raison d'etre".

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The worm "Manual" when used in the rules for sailing indicates the difference between "human" power and "non human" power. IT does not indicate the method of connection to that power source, nor does it indicate that it must be done by the hands. The contextual use of manual needs to be considered when determining the definition of the word.

 

The main reason that grinders are arm powered vs leg powered is that the setup takes a lot less space on a boat. A leg powered setup would require a laying down approach with only 1 person per pedestal and as such would vastly increase the complexity of the setup. Also the mechanics of the leg driven setup are much harder due to the legs being much less flexible around multiple axises where as the arms/hands can handle this very well. Startup torque with the hands is MUCH higher and much faster vs the legs (Watch the start of track cyclists, they are not very efficient at low speeds). There are also injuries to deal with, a bad wave misaligning the bike would blow out a knee easy, where as the arms have no ligament issues that are directly aligned to the rotation of the cranks.

 

With current setups the bike install is really only good for things like powering a hydraulic pump. Which is what the G3 boat is doing.

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If manual power is the same as human power, then why does RRS 52 not apply in the int. 2.4mR class, a boat which can be steered by feet operated pedals? There would be no reason to exclude this rule.

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> unfortunately up to now I have not received any reply [if] such a bicycle winch drive ... [is] legal

 

No reply because they think you are a nut job. :)

 

It started out good, citing the the rules by chapter and verse, but then we burst into a dead language and the whole thing rests on manus=hand. I had high school latin too. But the meaning of words change over time and, now, manual means not done with artificial power source. Welcome to the 21st centrury.

 

Cool chain wheel, though.

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Time to start testing these guys for doping...

 

Yeah you rite. Ya think someone's gonna pick up Armstrong as crew?

 

ha you think armstrong can swim?

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ha you think armstrong can swim?

 

well, if his many victories in different levels of triathlon racing as an adolescent are any indication, then yes.

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Early career (from wikipedia)

 

Armstrong was born on September 18, 1971, in Plano, Texas, a northern suburb of Dallas.[5]

 

At the age of 12, he began his sporting career as a swimmer at the City of Plano Swim Club and finished fourth in Texas state 1,500-meter freestyle. He abandoned swimming-only competition after seeing a poster for a junior triathlon which he entered and won easily.

 

 

Dude can swim.

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