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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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Bull Gator

The death Penalty must be abolished

287 posts in this topic

Illustration of why the death penalty must be abolished

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/24/n-c-ruling-is-a-step-toward-honesty-about-death-penalty-s-racism.html

 

 

Weeks’s ruling—the first invocation of the new Racial Justice Act—was the first step in repairing the damage done by one of the Supreme Court’s most notorious holdings: McCleskey v. Kemp, decided 25 years ago this month.

 

 

In that case, lawyers for Warren McCleskey—who had been sentenced to death for killing Atlanta police officer Frank Schlatt—proved that black defendants are statistically more likely than whites to face the death penalty, and that murderers whose victims are white are more likely to face death than killers whose victims are black. In numerous contexts—for instance, allegations of employment discrimination, charges of bias in university admissions, and claims of police misconduct—parties can use general statistics to prevail, even in the absence of specific wrongdoing in their case. But in a 5-4 vote, the justices in McCleskey swatted it all away, carving out an exception for death-penalty cases.

 

 

Even overwhelming statistical evidence, they said, does not prove racism infected a particular trial. The court might as well have said that just because the KKK is a racist organization doesn’t prove that the murder of Emmett Till was racially motivated. The ruling was the legal equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying, “I can’t hear you!”

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But i would in most cases be willing to settle for life doing hard labor.

 

 

Weell, heere in Kalifornia, our Bleeding Heart Liberal Burrito Supreme Court has outlawed any "Hard Labor" other than voluntary forest fire fighting. Lifers and Death Row inhabitants are not eligible for this.

 

Here's another creep that needs to be cut off from Oxygen:

 

Earl Ellis Green

 

Career criminal, Cop Killer. Found with slain officer's gun in his house. Cop was a Iraq War Veteran. This thug killed the cop as he pleaded for his life. This Fukwit could have run away, as the cop had fallen in some wet grass chasing him after he pulled him over in a stolen semi-truck. Gaytor, give me one REASONABLE excuse that this fucker should get to live the rest of his natural life!

 

Are you FUCKING RETARDED?? In addtion to the practical mon moral reasons the moral reasons arestructive..................

 

 

 

Parolee convicted of murdering Riverside police officer

 

First step, conviction. Second step, Jury votes for Death. Third Step, Judge administers Death Penalty. Fourth step, California injects this worthless piece of CRAP! Don't expect to see it, but like the Lottery, I can HOPE!

 

obama-hope-shelter-copy-500x752.jpg

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Given your low morals I am not surprised that you continue to advocate for the demonstrably immoral death penalty :(

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fat-man.jpg

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Given your low morals I am not surprised that you continue to advocate for the demonstrably immoral death penalty :(

 

 

why is the death penalty "immoral" for "civilians" but "moral" for "solders"?

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Given your low morals I am not surprised that you continue to advocate for the demonstrably immoral death penalty :(

 

why is the death penalty "immoral" for "civilians" but "moral" for "solders"?

Because Jesus loves you.

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Given your low morals I am not surprised that you continue to advocate for the demonstrably immoral death penalty :(

 

why is the death penalty "immoral" for "civilians" but "moral" for "solders"?

Because Jesus loves you.

 

que?

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would stupid people by eligible?

can i choose who gets it?

 

satisfy those 2 criteria and i am all for it

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What? You got a better reason?

 

because gaston is a moron? He's all for burning soldiers at the stake but wont even consider hearing a reason to remove from this earth those who are civilians and have committed far greater and unprovoked crimes against humanity.

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First, morality is just a really bad place to apply logic or to try to find a calculus. Don't do it.

 

Second, the morality of State actions is an even more badder place to apply logic or to try to find a calculus. Really don't do it.

 

Third, the law courts of a State like to think they are working in deontological (rule based) ethics while wars are generally fought in the consequentialist school. Deontology is Latin for the full employment for lawyers and yes, I know there's a difference between ethics and morality. Consequentialists only care about results and wars are about results.

 

So the State may cite many fancy laws and precedents before sentencing some poor woman to 20 years for busting off a couple of rounds into the ceiling rather than killing her ex. How very Rule of Law of them. It must be right.

 

But on the field of battle, we have the Uniform Code of Military Justice, our version of the Pirates' Code, which is really more what you'd call a set of guidelines than actual rules. It is rarely consulted before pulling the trigger but still it does give you a fig leaf to feel better about what happens when the bearer has done what was done in your name.

 

You are trying to compare the deontological nature of law courts with the consequentialist nature of war. Bad idea.

 

That said, the death penalty is a really bad idea and wars are going to be fought.

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What? You got a better reason?

 

because gaston is a moron? He's all for burning soldiers at the stake but wont even consider hearing a reason to remove from this earth those who are civilians and have committed far greater and unprovoked crimes against humanity.

 

 

Filthy lyiing Zionist! I have always been consistent and have been careful to say that I do not support the death penalty for even the most egregious offenders in the military. Even those guilty of genocide should not be killed by the state

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http://forums.sailin...dpost&p=2988789

 

Olsonist, im not, at this time, making any claim either way that the DP is moral in any sense. Im only interested in knowing why it is ok for soldiers to be executed but not civilians - according to gasston. Let alone moral issues i dont think the DP makes sense from financial point of view plus the fact that it fails as deterrent due to the delay between the shock and awe news stories and the actual execution.

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quote name='mustang__1' timestamp='1336932654' post='3711639']

http://forums.sailin...dpost&p=2988789

 

Olsonist, im not, at this time, making any claim either way that the DP is moral in any sense. Im only interested in knowing why it is ok for soldiers to be executed but not civilians - according to gasston. Let alone moral issues i dont think the DP makes sense from financial point of view plus the fact that it fails as deterrent due to the delay between the shock and awe news stories and the actual execution.

 

 

ziomists are fantastic liars

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what exactly am i lying about? did you look at the link i posted? did you see what you said?

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http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=113242&st=0&p=2988789entry2988789

 

you said they should die. Right there. So which is gasston, should people be put to death by the state or not? Or were you before it before you were against it?

 

 

you filthy zionist you (along with many of your elk) have poor reading comprehension skills. I have schooled you again as will Iran school Israel if they are foolish enough to attack...

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It never ends. (And neither should/will the death penalty).

 

 

troubling and morally indefensible. the blood of innocents is on your hands

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It never ends. (And neither should/will the death penalty).

Sol, End The Death Penalty is a prop on the ballot in CA on Nov 6. It has mainstream support. We'll see.

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It never ends. (And neither should/will the death penalty).

Sol, End The Death Penalty is a prop on the ballot in CA on Nov 6. It has mainstream support. We'll see.

Well, if it passes, people will just have to travel to other states to be executed, just like same sex marriage. Wait. Um... Forget I said anything.

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It never ends. (And neither should/will the death penalty).

Sol, End The Death Penalty is a prop on the ballot in CA on Nov 6. It has mainstream support. We'll see.

 

 

The reasonable people in CT recently banned the death penalty. Soon similar acts will pass like wildfire accross the country except maybe in the most regressive of the flyover states...

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Anyone care to make the case about how anything less than the death penalty would be a sufficient punishment of the person who set off the device that did this:

 

murrah_3.jpg

 

220px-Firefighterbabyocb.jpg

?

 

I'd really like to feel as if there is some lesser punishment that would have been sufficient, but I just don't see it. Please convince me that Timothy McVeigh should have been spared.

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That's easy while he deserved to die a civilized society refrains from immoral acts like that. Lock him up and let him rot but no reasonable person can tolerate murder by the state.

 

Now if his was killed trying to escap that would have been understandable - but he gave himself up

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That's easy while he deserved to die a civilized society refrains from immoral acts like that. Lock him up and let him rot but no reasonable person can tolerate murder by the state.

 

Now if his was killed trying to escap that would have been understandable - but he gave himself up

 

Not a very convincing answer to the question above.

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Would the parents of one of the children killed in the day care find any punishment other than the death penalty to be morally acceptable?

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I hate the guy too. And there's worse people than Tim McVeigh. BTW, most of his accomplices didn't even get life. Michael Fortier got 12. Lori Fortier got 0. Nichols got life.

 

I'm still against the death penalty. In a way, I think McVeigh rotting in prison without the possibility of parole is worse than death.

 

I'm also opposed to the death penalty because in practice it is extraordinarily expensive. Doesn't seem like it would be but it is. The last thing I want to do for the Timothy McVeighs is to spend any more money on them than necessary.

 

The death penalty is also unevenly applied. If juries, DAs, judges and defense attorneys were perfect I might be less opposed. But they're not. This one matters to me a lot.

 

BTW, whenever I hear some right wing dumb fuck running his mouth off I think of Timothy McVeigh and how some people didn't challenge him, didn't push back. It stiffens my backbone.

 

But I'm still against the death penalty.

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Would the parents of one of the children killed in the day care find any punishment other than the death penalty to be morally acceptable?

 

 

yes many if not most people who have lost people dear to them to a physco killer renounce the death penalty as a punishment

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I hate the guy too. And there's worse people than Tim McVeigh. BTW, most of his accomplices didn't even get life. Michael Fortier got 12. Lori Fortier got 0. Nichols got life.

 

I'm still against the death penalty. In a way, I think McVeigh rotting in prison without the possibility of parole is worse than death.

 

I'm also opposed to the death penalty because in practice it is extraordinarily expensive. Doesn't seem like it would be but it is. The last thing I want to do for the Timothy McVeighs is to spend any more money on them than necessary.

 

The death penalty is also unevenly applied. If juries, DAs, judges and defense attorneys were perfect I might be less opposed. But they're not. This one matters to me a lot.

 

BTW, whenever I hear some right wing dumb fuck running his mouth off I think of Timothy McVeigh and how some people didn't challenge him, didn't push back. It stiffens my backbone.

 

But I'm still against the death penalty.

 

 

of course you have the moral argument high ground - doesnt stop the blood lusters from their opposition though

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I hate the guy too. And there's worse people than Tim McVeigh. BTW, most of his accomplices didn't even get life. Michael Fortier got 12. Lori Fortier got 0. Nichols got life.

 

I'm still against the death penalty. In a way, I think McVeigh rotting in prison without the possibility of parole is worse than death.

 

I'm also opposed to the death penalty because in practice it is extraordinarily expensive. Doesn't seem like it would be but it is. The last thing I want to do for the Timothy McVeighs is to spend any more money on them than necessary.

 

The death penalty is also unevenly applied. If juries, DAs, judges and defense attorneys were perfect I might be less opposed. But they're not. This one matters to me a lot.

 

BTW, whenever I hear some right wing dumb fuck running his mouth off I think of Timothy McVeigh and how some people didn't challenge him, didn't push back. It stiffens my backbone.

 

But I'm still against the death penalty.

That's pretty compelling, for a question to which there really is no right answer. McVeigh is the worst case scenario, for sure. The co-conspirators are interesting because I really don't feel the same way about them as I did about McVeigh. I think life for Nichols is probably appropriate.

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Watching the end of the green mile right now - laser sharp perspective on this subject... :(

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Not convincing I suppose if you are not a moral man

 

You're funny. I bet you and Happy Jack get along just super. Oh, and just so you know, I believe you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that, but by your standards I am an immoral man. Now you know something about me.

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Not convincing I suppose if you are not a moral man

 

You're funny. I bet you and Happy Jack get along just super. Oh, and just so you know, I believe you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that, but by your standards I am an immoral man. Now you know something about me.

 

 

Hate that fucking tool.

 

But seriously setting aside the compelling non moral arguments no reasonable person can support the death penalty. That said i'd like to see your argument.

 

1) addressing the non moral arguments

2) addressing the moral arguments

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Not convincing I suppose if you are not a moral man

 

You're funny. I bet you and Happy Jack get along just super. Oh, and just so you know, I believe you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that, but by your standards I am an immoral man. Now you know something about me.

 

 

Hate that fucking tool.

 

But seriously setting aside the compelling non moral arguments no reasonable person can support the death penalty. That said i'd like to see your argument.

 

1) addressing the non moral arguments

2) addressing the moral arguments

 

I Would have to be drinking heavily and really bored to get into a discussion about the death penalty with you. Based on your posts in this thread nothing could change your mind, and therefore I can see no point in arguing with you about it. I honestly just can't be bothered. I support the death penalty, and have no problem with people that don't support it. That is the end of my story(until I am drunk and bored and feel like arguing about it).

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One of the guys who is a sponsor of the End The Death Penalty prop out here in CA sponsored the Three Strikes prop and is longtime death penalty proponent. But he switched sides with the greater good argument. We spend A LOT of money on these cases. A LOT. Ultimately it's a slow complete waste of money. I'd rather it was spent on schools and roads.

 

Lastly, we have executed innocent people and I really can't live with that. That's the one that really gets me. Our justice system is far from perfect.

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posted photos are a great way to get an emotional response.

 

this issue does not need emotion, it needs logic. and logic tells me that the possibility exists for the state to murder an innocent person. that's enough for me to be against it.

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gay-scooter.jpg

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gay-scooter.jpg

 

Looks like Gaytor lost a little weight while in the slammer. Wonder if he got the Anally Injected Death Serum while in the Graybar?

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I am still not reasonable, likely never will be

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Parolee convicted of murdering Riverside police officer

 

First step, conviction. Second step, Jury votes for Death. Third Step, Judge administers Death Penalty. Fourth step, California injects this worthless piece of CRAP! Don't expect to see it, but like the Lottery, I can HOPE!

 

obama-hope-shelter-copy-500x752.jpg

 

Round 2 DONE! Jury votes for DEATH. Need the Judge to agree, usually do! Sadly, I don't see Gov. Jerry 'Moonbeam' Brown or AG Kamala Harris whipping out the needle anytime soon. Unfortunately, Kalifornia's Death Row is Solitary, so it's unlikely that he'll get the "Anally Injected Death Serum" there.

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Yup not so silent boob is no more evolved than a common animal.

 

Truth is the death penalty can not be supported my any moral or legal argument. Just this year we learned of two innocent people murdered by the state and mr boob and his elk

 

Troubling

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This is what happens when you give someone "Life":

 

Chowchilla 'busnapper' wins release from prison

 

 

These FuckClowns kidnapped 26 children and the bus driver, and buried them underground. He has served 34 years. He needs to spent 27 LIFETIMES behind bars. This prick gave up his right to see anything without bars. He ruined the lives of 27 INNOCENT people. And soon, thanks to Bleeding Heart Liberal Judges, he will be walking the streets. Hopefully, he'll move to Floriduh.

 

 

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Bob apparently you don't understand that room in the prison system has to be made for the guy caught with a couple grams of marajuana.

Those criminals don't need to be walking the streets any longer....

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No one died so I am ok with parole after 34 years. Sounds like a righteous decision. Hopefully he's learned his lesson and can be a productive citizen in his remaining years

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Bob apparently you don't understand that room in the prison system has to be made for the guy caught with a couple grams of marajuana.

Those criminals don't need to be walking the streets any longer....

 

 

Yeah stupid boob doesn't understand the world in which he lives

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This is what happens when you give someone "Life":

 

Chowchilla 'busnapper' wins release from prison

 

 

These FuckClowns kidnapped 26 children and the bus driver, and buried them underground. He has served 34 years. He needs to spent 27 LIFETIMES behind bars. This prick gave up his right to see anything without bars. He ruined the lives of 27 INNOCENT people. And soon, thanks to Bleeding Heart Liberal Judges, he will be walking the streets. Hopefully, he'll move to Floriduh.

 

 

What's your beef? GZ killed a young boy and at best he's looking at 8 years. Inequitable treatment reason 1,000,001 to abolish the death penalty

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Just how many lives did this FuckHead ruin before the Big C took him before the Chair did?

 

Lawrence Singleton

 

 

His attack of Mary Vincent wasn't too far or too long after Chowchilla. Just think, Gaytor, if you had YOUR arms chopped off you wouldn't be able to rub off to Tim Tebow videos. You would just have to corner your mom's dog, and hump it.

 

 

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Glad to see he escaped the death penalty. It's immoral you know.

 

Btw you didn't answer my question

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What's my beef? My beef is Moonbeam's 'Get Soft on Crime' stand, and other states that have let these CRIMINALS get away with too much for too long. These CRIMINALS have ruined innocent lives

 

Kenneth Parnell served 5 years of a seven year sentence for kidnapping two young boys. Screwed up one of the boy's families so much, that his brother later killed three innocent women. His brother is now on California's Death Row. Parnell was later convicted of trying to buy a 4 year old boy as a sex toy. Why was this man out on the street?

 

 

Gaytor, there are too many of these SICK FUCKS out among us. They need to be removed from society. "Life" doesn't mean "Life", they usually get out, and do more harm. I have yet to see somebody that received the Chair get out to repeat their crimes.

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Glad to see he escaped the death penalty. It's immoral you know.

 

Reasons to vote for Obama --

 

106 - Killed Osama bin Laden

 

It is immoral, sometimes.

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Glad to see he escaped the death penalty. It's immoral you know.

 

Reasons to vote for Obama --

 

106 - Killed Osama bin Laden

 

It is immoral, sometimes.

I'm more concerned about Anwar Al-awaki.

 

American citizen, not even an unindicted coconspirator (I mean, I thought that was pretty inconsequential in itself), but hey, da man is commander in chief and above the law.

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Glad to see he escaped the death penalty. It's immoral you know.

 

Reasons to vote for Obama --

 

106 - Killed Osama bin Laden

 

It is immoral, sometimes.

Don't forget his championing the use of drones for Obamas kill list.

I have a new word and it's called Gaypocracey.

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Another AssWipe that needs to removed from our presence.

 

 

Gaytor, read what this guy has done. Think about how many lives that he has ruined. Not only the innocent victims, but also the damage done to the victim's family and friends. The problem with locking them us, is that sometimes they get out, and continue the damage.

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Sounds like he has been properly locked up for thirty years. A fine example of lock em up a thow away the key

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Round 2 DONE! Jury votes for DEATH. Need the Judge to agree, usually do! Sadly, I don't see Gov. Jerry 'Moonbeam' Brown or AG Kamala Harris whipping out the needle anytime soon. Unfortunately, Kalifornia's Death Row is Solitary, so it's unlikely that he'll get the "Anally Injected Death Serum" there.

 

Step 3 complete: Man gets death sentence in killing of CA policeman

 

Maybe Gaytor can hold his hand as they electrocute him. Damn, Kalifornia uses the Needle. Maybe Gaytor can sit out in front of San Quentin and light candles for this AssWipe.

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Sounds like a bad man. Of course the appropriate sentence is life in prison without he possibility of parole

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Seven known INNOCENT victims, unknown how many more.

 

South L.A. serial rapist gets death sentence for killing 3 women

 

Again, Gaytor, the problem with "Life Without Parole" is that there is a chance that they can get out. Once they are DEAD, they cannot re offend.

 

 

Yes but unfortunately due to the many reasons I have already cited it is not an acceptable punishment

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Cop Killer during Jerry's Daddy's term, Jerry's Kidz let him escape the Chair.

 

Luckily, he spent the rest of his life in prison, but he was up for parole a dozen times and his partner in crime was paroled. Powell attempted to escape from prison. Smith died in jail, being back in for parole violations.

 

Gaytor, why was this Fucker allowed to breathe for 50 years after MURDERING an INNOCENT COP who was doing his job?

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Good to see the death penalty was not applied.

 

Dissapointing that my reasonable proposal for the incarceration of killers was not followed.

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Another case of Bleeding Heart Liberal judges letting dangerous felons back onto the streets, peobably just a matter of time before Manson is let out. There is no guarantee of Life Without Parole.

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There was no doubt that the assclown above was guilty. Instead of 2 innocent people being DEAD, now 3 Innocent people are dead. Hopefully, they will fry the fucker before he dies of old age.

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There was no doubt that the assclown above was guilty. Instead of 2 innocent people being DEAD, now 3 Innocent people are dead. Hopefully, they will fry the fucker before he dies of old age.

Well, theoretically, the third one is not innocent. She did give birth to a murder.

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There was no doubt that the assclown above was guilty. Instead of 2 innocent people being DEAD, now 3 Innocent people are dead. Hopefully, they will fry the fucker before he dies of old age.

 

I hope he lives a long life in prison. It's a reasonable punishment. A Moral one as well.

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Or you could make it mandatory death sentence if a firearm is use in the commission of a felony.

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Or you could make it mandatory death sentence if a firearm is use in the commission of a felony.

I'm sure George Zimmerman might not agree with you.

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Today a man was captured in Vallejo ,Ca for murdering his mother. In 1966 he kidnapped two girls and killed them, was tried and was on death row for the murders. Then California overturned death sentences, and he was placed out of death row on a life sentence. Some how he was paroled.. And now because of these anti death sentence fans.. You have let a murderer kill again. Some people are broken and no matter what you do, you can never fix them.

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Or you could make it mandatory death sentence if a firearm is use in the commission of a felony.

I'm sure George Zimmerman might not agree with you.

If he was found guilty of a felony, that would be true. IF.

On the other hand, if we had the death penalty for all felonies committed with a handgun, might it be that George Zimmerman might have been a bit more restrained and Travon Martin still alive?

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Or you could make it mandatory death sentence if a firearm is use in the commission of a felony.

I'm sure George Zimmerman might not agree with you.

If he was found guilty of a felony, that would be true. IF.

On the other hand, if we had the death penalty for all felonies committed with a handgun, might it be that George Zimmerman might have been a bit more restrained and Travon Martin still alive?

Likewise, if Florida didn't have a Stand your Ground law, perhaps Zimmerman wouldn't have fired the fatal shot for fear of prosecution.

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