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paul henderson on the olympics

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Paul Henderson was asked by the ISAF to give his thoughts on their Olympic decisions. We got 'em...

 

Olympic Events: (On request of the President) CONFIDENTIAL

 

Assumptions:

Sailing will continue with 10 Events and 380 athletes for 2016.

Olympic Sailing should err on side of “Talent over Technology”.

Encourage inclusivity not exclusivity.

The vote on the Events takes place in November 2011.

The Equipment (Classes) are picked in 2012.

Format, Fleet or Match, to be done 3 years before but should be done also in 2012 with exceptions.

Experience with 2012 Women’s Match Racing will put this in place. Match is exclusive. Fleet inclusive.

(Council made error by deciding Women’s Match Racing in 2007 as that is Format.

Women's’ Keelboat is the Event.)

 

Solid Classes:

Men’s Singlehanded: Laser Standard

2) Women’s Singlehanded: Laser Radial

3) Men’s Keelboat:

4) Women’s Keelboat:

5) Open Doublehander: Skiff: 49er (no reason to change)

6) Men’s Heavyweight Singlehander: Olympics must not become a Junior small peoples event.

The Finn has served sailing well and should be retained until something better comes along.

 

Comments: There should be Keelboats because of facilities required for the Paralympics.

Also it is where the best names in Sailing show up which is what the media likes.

The media likes personalities more than they like equipment.

 

Tough Decisions:

 

History:

It has been done before that an event is held out of the Games for a period and then brought back. It has usually been done to change equipment as was done with the FD and Tornado.

Windsurfing was originally brought in to show the cutting edge of our sport as distinct from the traditional aspects as shown above. Windsurfing 40 years ago was the new “Extreme Sailing”.

For the next decade every other car going down the highway had one on their roof.

Now it is in strong decline and should be dropped for 2016. 40 years was a good run.

Skiing is a good example as they have replaced events with Snow Boarding disciplines. Speed skating has also met the challenge with Short Track.

 

Kite Boarding is the new “Extreme Sailing”

 

Must make the decision to drop the 470 and Windsurfing Men and Women.

 

Bring Cats Back: (Kinetics are minimized)

 

It was right to drop the Tornado as it had become very expensive and exclusive succumbing to technology.

 

7) Men’s Cat: (model to be a modern Hobie 16 with their same “Laser” mentality)

8) Women’s Cat:

 

Kite Boarding: “Extreme Sailing”

 

Take a leap of faith and put Kite Boarding in for 2016 as we did with the 49er and Windsurfing so many years ago. Format does not need to be decided till 2013. ISAF will have two year to massage the format to have a sensible equipment and competition.

 

9) Men’s Kite Boarding

10) Women’s Kite Boarding

 

“Fools go in where Angels fear to tread”

 

Respectfully submitted,

Paul Henderson

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If he likes to be on the cutting edge of sailing, ditch the lasers an replace by foiling one person boat. As i understand weight is les critical when foiling. To keep the talant over tech use the laser format al the same hull sails, foils etc. But keep the costs low. Laser is an expensive boat too race. Kite boarding the new sailing what a laugh kite boarding is the new trick surfing doing jumps etc. It's a watersport but doesn't include the sailing aspect of tactics. Just like there is/was a much bigger group surfers looking for speed surfing ore doing flips and tricks than there where compeditive (sailing) surfers.

 

So keep a nice fast technical 2 person keel boat with the focus on tactics and atletichs, Ad a foilling design based on the laser formula (pref for 200+ pound) so i can race a foiler ;-)

 

Yours FKZ

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The number of people racing kiteboards is FAR less than the number of windsurf racers, and kite board racing vs. the aerial jumping and B&F kiting is not dissimilar to the massive disconnect between the longboards used in racing olympics by say 2000/2004 vs. the shortboards, slalom and formula boards raced by racers and even further to the average guys blasting around B&F (back and forth).

 

While course racing on a kite is growing it is still in the early days without a clear format; it is like snowboarding in the late 80s with regards to racing in some respects.

 

Windsurfing stuck with longboards because you can ride them in displacement mode, and right now there's been a bit of growth in windsurfing since the late 90s when it was really struggling.

 

Given that kiting is even more wind dependent than windsurfing, i struggle to see how you can kite in 3-6 knots which is why we see longboard/hybrid POS RSXs and not lightweight formula boards in the olympics. Will they bring out longboards and even bigger kites?

 

I am unsure what events snowboarding replaced in the winter olympics that were previously ski events....AFAIK virtually none were downhill ski events (a fair comparison between snowboarding and sking); maybe a few events were eliminated like ballet but those were already suspect and in some cases only test events and had little to do with snowboarding down a hill. I stand prepared to be corrected, but suspect the reasoning behind this is totally flawed, especially given that ski racing has not died as a result of snowboard racing, any more than windsurfing is dying as a result of kiting. And certainly not for the tiny proportion of any of these 4 sports that actually races. In fact as a former snowboard racer, it is fair to say snowboarding racing around gates is the most likely to be dropped in future due to lack of participation =- so much for 'cutting edge extreme'

 

I agree with most of the rest, although a foiler might be good depending on wind minimums. Keelboat should be a single sportboat class broken down by gender that is fast, affordable fun, and men and women should race the same boat, this would certainly help management of costs for the class. It also helps a lot for logistics - requirements to be would be 4 person, trailerable, can be towed by a 4 cylinder car, 2 fit into a container, high performance for advanced sailors, best in class, affordable, existing class rewarding effort and tactics (i.e. not some non hiking old man's boat).

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Paul seems to be fitting the arguments to his desired selection. Very little consistentcy in some of the arguments to keep things in and then to include the kite board.

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"The Finn has served sailing well and should be retained until something better comes along. "

 

I wonder if he has a slight bias - something better ? How about losing 100 lbs to start with

 

How many sports boast that something designed 60 years ago is still the best there is ?

 

You don't see the Tour De France in Penny Farthings

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I have always loved that Paul claims there is minimal kinetics in Cat racing, I use his statement everytime someone accuses us of pumping, which we do a lot of and its very effective.

 

So, It just points out to me that he is really out of touch with whats really going on out there.

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In my opinion, Women AND Men's keelboat: Shaw 650. Use the fiberglass production boats as a one design for the Olympics. Just by looking at the specs and photos, it's obviously very powered up. Since the general public doesn't know much about sailing, I think our equipment should be used to help show it off. People like race cars almost as much as the racing itself, so why not get people interested in racing sailboats by making them sound cool and modern with "light weight composite construction, massive sail area, carbon fiber mast and bowsprit, etc." Often times, when people think sailing is a sport only for the rich, it's because they don't understand boats in general. I bet if they saw a Star plodding along and found out it costs $40k (guessing on price here), they would probably be shocked. If they saw a Shaw 650 blasting downwind with a masthead kite and found out it's $40k, they might not be as surprised since it's been described to them as a hi-tech, modern race boat versus an ancient design that was originally made of plywood. People can handle the idea of racing vehicles being expensive.

 

I'm of the younger generation of sailors, where fast is fun. Yes, I respect grace, grunt, and talent required to sail a Star at top levels, but a powerful sportboat is so much more interesting, and that's what the public needs to see sailing as! The micro tuning isn't there, but the physical effort of hiking hard and trimming well still is, along with the mental game of good driving and tactics. Imagine the photo from the front page with the Star about to round down in big breeze. Then imagine a powered up sport boat with the crew hiking off the back corner trying to keep the bow up and working in sync to surf at max potential. Other than the carnage factor of the Star, which would you rather watch? If we want sailing to take off, we need to get people to understand it can be fast and exciting!

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How many sports boast that something designed 60 years ago is still the best there is ?

 

Not certain the shottput has changed too much. Javelin, discus.....

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Windsurfing 40 years ago was the new "Extreme Sailing".

For the next decade every other car going down the highway had one on their roof.

Now it is in strong decline and should be dropped for 2016. 40 years was a good run.

 

It's nowhere near 40 years. Introduced at the 1984 games.

 

Several hundred sailboards raced near my club one weekend this summer, my club has restarted running course racing for boards and if anything I'd say windsurfing is enjoying a bit of a revival right now.

 

Never did like it, did he? "Air-rowing", apparently.

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Windsurfing 40 years ago was the new "Extreme Sailing".

For the next decade every other car going down the highway had one on their roof.

Now it is in strong decline and should be dropped for 2016. 40 years was a good run.

 

It's nowhere near 40 years. Introduced at the 1984 games.

 

Several hundred sailboards raced near my club one weekend this summer, my club has restarted running course racing for boards and if anything I'd say windsurfing is enjoying a bit of a revival right now.

 

Never did like it, did he? "Air-rowing", apparently.

First one I saw was in 1972 - in Spain. Pretty extreme.

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Windsurfing 40 years ago was the new "Extreme Sailing".

For the next decade every other car going down the highway had one on their roof.

Now it is in strong decline and should be dropped for 2016. 40 years was a good run.

 

It's nowhere near 40 years. Introduced at the 1984 games.

 

Several hundred sailboards raced near my club one weekend this summer, my club has restarted running course racing for boards and if anything I'd say windsurfing is enjoying a bit of a revival right now.

 

Never did like it, did he? "Air-rowing", apparently.

First one I saw was in 1972 - in Spain. Pretty extreme.

FIrst time I played with one would have been 1986 but Australia is a bit behind, the board was at least 10ft, i think.

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How many sports boast that something designed 60 years ago is still the best there is ?

 

Not certain the shottput has changed too much. Javelin, discus.....

Changed the last time to make it rubbish in flight as people where throwing them out of the stadium.

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First one I saw was in 1972 - in Spain.

 

Not quite clear but Henderson seems to be saying boards have been in the Olympics for 40 years. "A 40 year run". This is not true. 1st time was the Windglider in 1984. I remember the Windglider well as putting it back on the roof-rack was exercise in itself. A hefty beast.

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Henderson always has an opinion and that's a good thing, overll his proposal is workable.

 

Personally I'd say kiteboarding should be a multi-discipline event, tricks, head to head knockout racing etc ...

 

I don't buy the heavyweight/no junior argument in favour of the Finn, to expand sailing in Asia and for women you need boats to favour "smaller" competitors.

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I put this in the Fallen Star thread yesterday, has some application to this issue as well.

 

............................................................................................................................................................

 

As usual, Steve Clark nails the situation right on the head.

 

The Olympics are nothing now but a once every four years sports reality TV show.

 

The sad part is that there is the vestige of Olympic idealism left within the younger people, at least the very young. Probably by the time you get to an actual competitive world level, everyone pretty much realizes what the Olympics are for those that win - a stepping stone to a bigger payday.

 

So, the likes of US Sailing Olympic Sailing Committee Chair Dean Brenner cloak themselves in the mantra of winning medals for the good of the country, and younger people drink the koolaid and go raise hundreds of thousands of dollars in donated money to sail in wonderful places all over the world. All for the sake of, at least in the US, of not being on NBC TV when their 15 minutes appears. What is lost in the US system is that we are only concerned with winning medals, and we are now focusing all of our resources at the Olympic level on a very small group of people. We are even running the Women's match racing Trials in Weymouth, UK. We have so lost our soul of Olympic ideology that we think it simply does not matter that we try to educate and otherwise promote our homegrown sailors in the US in the only real trials we are having, all for the sake of 12 women racing at the Olympic venue, rather than in the US. Medals of the moment are the only thing that matters to Dean Brenner - the implications of letting a local club host those trials and all that resultant benefit be damned.

 

Those who support prospective Olympians might be better off helping that sailor try to get on American Idol. If we are going to create reality TV stars, we might has well focus on bigger potential paydays.

 

People piss and moan about this or that boat being in or out of the Olympics as if the boats matter to TV ratings - they don't. We have a non-functional scoring system - why on earth reward inconsistency in racing with a drop race? A medal race that isn't really a medal race. And we have a week of sailing on exactly the same course every day. Other than the tens, or maybe 100's, of people who are emotionally, and maybe financially, invested in a particular sailor, who the hell cares about a week's worth of racing on the silly Olympic course? What is exciting about that?

 

One thing that ISAF does not ever really talk about is format. The first thing that we need to do to get coverage on TV is change the format. Women's match racing might get some coverage - might. But why not downwind starts? Why not make one race of the series a pure downwind sprint? Why not a marathon race? And if we are going to have a medal race, have a goddamn winner take all medal race. I had a conversation about this very fact with Gary Jobson on Monday. After every Olympics he writes his report for NBC on what would make a better Olympic sailing telecast, and every year, ISAF ignores those suggestions.

 

As for the Star - I don't know if it should be in or out of the Olympics. But I am almost 100% certain that it will find its way back in. The answer is not about the boat or the class, it is about the people who will be pulling the levers to make it all happen behind the scenes. The change of the ISAF Bylaws last week now make it easier than ever for the Executive to do whatever they want. I also expect that the 470 will survive in one form or another. Go look at the structure of the executive and count the votes - and then figure out who is the real power behind the throne.

 

Ultimately, we don't have an Olympic sailing problem within the sport. We have a leadership problem. The Olympics used to create leaders of men and women within the sport. Now, it is just about the money, and the prospective Olympians are just unpaid actors in TV show.

 

Aren't we better than this?

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The original Olympics where a jolly game for the social elite to show off at. The modern Olympics where invented as a jolly game for the well off to play at. That's largely, but for for a handful of countries, still what sailing in the Olympics stands for.

 

If you want to go sailing at The Games you have always, and still, need sufficient private wealth to be able to aford the gear and the time away from making a living. Nothing has changed.

 

The normal rules of sailing apply. It's not how much the equipment costs per say. It's how much some one else is prepared to spend in order to win the pickle dish. If they have the money, and they value the prize enough then there are a million ways to find to spend it, few of which make little enough difference that some one with tallent but with out the same backing can succeed.

 

Olympic Gold is a very attractive prize.

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+1 on Peter Huston's and Steve Clark's perspectives.

 

I competed at the 1988 and 1996 Olympic Trials in Division II sailboard and Tornado respectively. I finished both events in the top third of the fleet and in both campaigns walked away believing my participation helped prepare the teams who went on to the Olympics. That was the goal of many of us who could only afford to do "corinthian" campaigns financed mostly out of our own pockets and not being able to take long leaves from our careers.

 

The reality of having a successful program now is the ability to campaign 100% (i.e. it's your job) for at least 18-24 months and be fully funded. You'll still see some Trials events with a relatively large field (take the Finns in 2008) but at least 60-70 percent of that fleet are typically masters sailors racing the event for fun with no realistic chance of winning. That's OK, they are still contributing to preparing the winner and it's a shame it doesn't seem to happen on the same level in the other classes (for various reasons beyond the scope of this response).

 

Regarding Mr. Henderson's opinion, it's seem out of touch (or perhaps obsolete) in some key aspects:

 

1. One singlehanded men's dinghy - The competitive Laser sailor is 170-175 lbs and is very, very fit. There is no point to having a parallel event where the sailors need to weigh 20-30 lbs more, absurd! Pick one or the other, not both.

2. One two person dinghy or skiff for both men and women, 470 has served well but time to move on to skiffs for men and women (49er and 29er)

2. I'm neutral on the keelboat event but including it does created a balanced format and represents the entire sport better even though the boats are expensive.

3. Multihull - Hobie 16??? NO, NO, NO. His comments about the Tornado are ridiculous in light of his support of the Finn and Star (both classes he competed in actively). F-18 does not want to be an Olympic class and the Tornado has kept up in its evolution to be able to represent the state of the art in current two man, twin trapeze with spinnaker high performance catamarans. The class has also made a huge effort to get the cost of a complete boat down to the low 30's, about the same as a new 505. A new Finn is pushing $25K and a new Star is over $50K. A Tornado (and an F-18 and F-16) also holds it's value much better than a Star or Finn because the platforms have a documented competitive life of over 10 years (just like the 505's).

4. Sailboarding is strong and the racing represents all the elements of traditional sailboat racing and requires a very high level of fitness. It should remain in for sure.

5. Kiteboarding is not ready to be an Olympic sailing event. Maybe in 8 years. It's more like snowboarding compared to alpine skiing right now.

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He's right about the Paralympics-they are going to be using keelboats so the the keelboat facilities have to be built in any case.

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Comments on Match Racing being exclusive, yes it is, and it also takes a lot of umpires to run an event. We changed the format for our Special Olympics Sailing Program from fleet racing to a keel boat team racing format and found that the team racing format provides a very inclusive event, is a lot of fun for the competitors, and does not take many umpires to run the event.

 

We now have changed our two ISAF Grade 5 events from a two day match race to a one day team race and one day match race with Hobie Wave Catamarans as one of the two classes in the Grade 5 Match race and the ungraded team race. It will be interesting to see how this format change works out in our upcoming events.

 

matchracingorlando@hotmail.com

 

 

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I think PH has lost his marbles. "Kiting is the new extreme sailing". I find that statement to be short sited and wrong - almost as if the Olympic classes have existed in a vacuum. There are plenty of other examples of extreme sailing that have been growing over the past 3 quads. Foiling, skiffs, high performance single handed dinghies, the list could go on.

 

This is an example of an influential person whose point of view is out of step with the sport in general. Makes me wonder about his motivations for the things he says, has said, does, and has done over the past years.

 

I have seen people like this who hold leadership positions within the sport behave in a way that makes me question if their desire to volunteer and support our sport isn't based in a need to play god.

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Windsurfing 40 years ago was the new "Extreme Sailing".

For the next decade every other car going down the highway had one on their roof.

Now it is in strong decline and should be dropped for 2016. 40 years was a good run.

 

It's nowhere near 40 years. Introduced at the 1984 games.

 

Several hundred sailboards raced near my club one weekend this summer, my club has restarted running course racing for boards and if anything I'd say windsurfing is enjoying a bit of a revival right now.

 

Never did like it, did he? "Air-rowing", apparently.

 

Paul is referring to the lifespan of the Windsurfer, not its Olympic history.

 

The Windsurfer was first introduced in 1970, at the Playboy Club, on Lake Geneva along with the Laser

 

http://www.sail-world.com/UK/The-American-Tea-Cup-Regatta---where-it-all-began/76372

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He's right about the Paralympics-they are going to be using keelboats so the the keelboat facilities have to be built in any case.

 

The Paralympic regatta is very much smaller than the Olympic regatta - only three classes for one thing. You don't have to hold the two at the same place.

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they should drop the Finn and add the Moth, as a Moth not some frozen variant of it... 470 to mixed gender along with keelboats, add the 29erXX for women. Drop the Star...

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How many sports boast that something designed 60 years ago is still the best there is ?

 

Not certain the shottput has changed too much. Javelin, discus.....

 

Nor have the sprints, marathon, wrestling....you know, the real athletic events........unlike sailing.

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Nobody else but me thinks that the combination of words "modern" and "Hobie 16" is an oxymoron?

 

 

Maybe he means "modern badly designed catamaran".

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Some have mentioned a "marathon" event. If one can dream: how about an offshore event that lasts of order 10 days? You

start it the first day of the Olympics and then make it finish late in the second week. You could think of ways not to make it

too expensive but it would exclude some cities. To me it would be 100x more interesting to follow

this (online and with onboard video) than what is happening in with 470s. You'd also get daily reports on TV of

what is happening, who is leading, who broke what etc. This would have mass appeal in France for sure,

perhaps elsewhere too.

 

-Don't think kiteboarding is ready yet. If you want an "extreme" event, I'd go with moths.

-one men's singlehanded dinghy is enough

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they should drop the Finn and add the Moth, as a Moth not some frozen variant of it... 470 to mixed gender along with keelboats, add the 29erXX for women. Drop the Star...

 

I think Olympic sailing has to be one-design, Rohan Veal presented an OD Moth idea. The Moth class don't want to go Olympic, if it did it would destroy the class, the amount of development spending would explode and only very best funded competitors would have a chance, the performance difference would make the races boring and one nation a would likely have a much faster boat.

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The argument for keeping the Fin because the laser is a "junior" boat seems a little far fetched to me. While the laser does have a fairly specific competitive weight range, if we assume that any competitor in the Olympics should be in top shape physically, I'd guess that the 6' 175lb laser size sailor is far more average than a more heavily muscled 6'2" 215lb fin sailor. If you are going to go up a size range then to make the argument fair you'd need to go down a size range as well. A 5'8" 160lb guy is never going to be able to compete in either of those classes. A previous poster also made a good point in that most of the world the average size is probably even smaller than laser size. As things stand right now, the 160lb guy has to find crew and sail 470's or 49ers. Obviously there are not going to be three mens singlehanded dinghies, so why have two? I may be a little biased as I'm a laser sailor.

I also agree with another poster that team racing is an awesome format and a lot of fun to watch and sail, but with that you up the number of athletes, as well as the umpires required vs match racing, and it is not really anymore inclusive (you still only have 2 teams competing at any one time even if there are 6 boats.) But if any college can run a team race regatta for 10 or so teams with only 4 RIBs and volunteers, and knock out 2 full round robins in a weekend, there's no reason why the Olympics couldn't do it other than the increased number of athletes per team.

Kitesurfing I would love to see in the Olympics, I'm no expert on it, hoping to try it out soon especially after seeing some of the recent course-racing videos here. I don't really know whether its too young for the olympics now or not. I think course racers will allways be a small minority among kitesurfers, but there is no doubt that the sport has captured the attention of the non-sailing public more than anything else in the last 10 or 20 years. I think the snowboarding skiing analogies can be carried further in this regard, there really aren't very many alpine snowboarders out there compared with the total population of snowboarders, but they still get their event in addition to the halfpipe etc... If kiteboard courseracing made it in the olympics the rest of the sport might try to get some freestyle events in, though maybe they'd be happy with getting in the X-games.

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Comments on Match Racing being exclusive, yes it is, and it also takes a lot of umpires to run an event. We changed the format for our Special Olympics Sailing Program from fleet racing to a keel boat team racing format and found that the team racing format provides a very inclusive event, is a lot of fun for the competitors, and does not take many umpires to run the event.

 

We now have changed our two ISAF Grade 5 events from a two day match race to a one day team race and one day match race with Hobie Wave Catamarans as one of the two classes in the Grade 5 Match race and the ungraded team race. It will be interesting to see how this format change works out in our upcoming events.

 

matchracingorlando@hotmail.com

Full umpiring for 3 boat team racing requires 6 umpires per flight. The equivelent level of umpiring for match racing takes 4.

 

You can get away with 4 umpires on a team race -- just as you can 2 umpires in 1 boat for match racing -- but with 2 in 1 boat the coverage is inadequate and you only cover the critical pairing and miss a lot else.

 

Lots of people enjoy team racing more than match racing as it adds the whole dimension of trully controlling an oposition boat. Qually plenty of people cant stand team racing because they don't like relying on some one elses performance for the result ... and plenty dislike them both because they lack the maturity to accept umpire decisions ... ofrgettign that the reason the umpires are there is because they could never agree with each other and would spend 2 days in the protest room at every event.

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Windsurfing 40 years ago was the new "Extreme Sailing".

For the next decade every other car going down the highway had one on their roof.

Now it is in strong decline and should be dropped for 2016. 40 years was a good run.

 

It's nowhere near 40 years. Introduced at the 1984 games.

 

Several hundred sailboards raced near my club one weekend this summer, my club has restarted running course racing for boards and if anything I'd say windsurfing is enjoying a bit of a revival right now.

 

Never did like it, did he? "Air-rowing", apparently.

 

Paul is referring to the lifespan of the Windsurfer, not its Olympic history.

 

The Windsurfer was first introduced in 1970, at the Playboy Club, on Lake Geneva along with the Laser

 

http://www.sail-world.com/UK/The-American-Tea-Cup-Regatta---where-it-all-began/76372

If 40 years is 'a good run' what do you call 100+ years?

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In my opinion, Women AND Men's keelboat: Shaw 650. Use the fiberglass production boats as a one design for the Olympics. Just by looking at the specs and photos, it's obviously very powered up. Since the general public doesn't know much about sailing, I think our equipment should be used to help show it off. People like race cars almost as much as the racing itself, so why not get people interested in racing sailboats by making them sound cool and modern with "light weight composite construction, massive sail area, carbon fiber mast and bowsprit, etc." Often times, when people think sailing is a sport only for the rich, it's because they don't understand boats in general. I bet if they saw a Star plodding along and found out it costs $40k (guessing on price here), they would probably be shocked. If they saw a Shaw 650 blasting downwind with a masthead kite and found out it's $40k, they might not be as surprised since it's been described to them as a hi-tech, modern race boat versus an ancient design that was originally made of plywood. People can handle the idea of racing vehicles being expensive.

 

I'm of the younger generation of sailors, where fast is fun. Yes, I respect grace, grunt, and talent required to sail a Star at top levels, but a powerful sportboat is so much more interesting, and that's what the public needs to see sailing as! The micro tuning isn't there, but the physical effort of hiking hard and trimming well still is, along with the mental game of good driving and tactics. Imagine the photo from the front page with the Star about to round down in big breeze. Then imagine a powered up sport boat with the crew hiking off the back corner trying to keep the bow up and working in sync to surf at max potential. Other than the carnage factor of the Star, which would you rather watch? If we want sailing to take off, we need to get people to understand it can be fast and exciting!

 

You dont need to hike off the back corner of the Shaw on the bear away/downwind, just shuffle an arse width back, its a very well behaved boat. You could get some good footage of keels as they launch out of waves on the downwind though!!

 

As for kites they are the new extreme sailing, maybe not the new extreme racing though. They would have a similar problem as the Moth with regard to not having a one design board or kite, at the moment there are big big steps being taken in board design so it is likely that a OD board would be far from optimal and no one would use it outside the Olympics

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The Moth is a super cool boat but those of you who keep barking about them being in the Olympics are the crazy ones, especially the dude who said the Laser is too expensive in comparison! Olympics and sailing, why bother?

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Paul Henderson was asked by the ISAF to give his thoughts on their Olympic decisions. We got 'em...

 

There should be Keelboats because of facilities required for the Paralympics.

Also it is where the best names in Sailing show up which is what the media likes.

The media likes personalities more than they like equipment.

 

 

Respectfully submitted,

Paul Henderson

 

This has to be the absolutely stupidest comment I have read to date on the "Keep a Keel Boat in the Olympics" argument. Is he for real??

 

If a country is hosting the Summer Games and does not have a sailing facility, they will be putting hoisting facilities in anyway because after the Olympics/Paralympics they will want their citizens to have access to a hoist. DOUH Any country hosting the games that has done so in the past already has the facilities anyway.

 

To argue that the Olympics needs a Keel Boat because of the Paralympics can be easily fixed. Combine the two using the 2.4mR which is a boat that seems to not care if you weigh 5' 110lbs or 6' 200lbs or are able or disabled. Both sizes have won major events. Unless of course you able guys are a bunch of Chicken Shits B)

 

 

PS: Who gives a Flying F about personalities? They come and they go.

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Nobody else but me thinks that the combination of words "modern" and "Hobie 16" is an oxymoron?

 

 

Maybe he means "popular modern badly designed catamaran which has outsold all other catamaran designs combined".

 

Fixed for ya.

 

ps The Hobie Class Association has vehemently opposed its inclusion in the Olympics for decades, they really like to run their own show.

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PS: Who gives a Flying F about personalities? They come and they go.

 

If you were able to get into sailing, some of those people who are famous just for being famous, such as Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, etc then sailing would be the most watched sport in the Olympics.

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Kites no matter the format will struggle in sub 6 knots same as formula windsurfers. If they have day after day of no sailing as would have happened in china in light conditions they are being treated differently to the other sailing sports. They will also need multiple kites for different wind conditions and at a guess in light conditions it will massively favour certain body weights. Equipment choice allows customising but olympics likes od stuff.

 

The only non subjective format would be some sort of course race or boardercross maybe.

 

The jumps that kiters do are (to me) not elegant, not tv friendly (we don't see it on prime time despite several pro tours), and difficult to judge-summer olympics aren't that big on subjective sports anyhow. This so called extreme sport still has very low take up rates compared to say snowboarding or mountain biking and the industry is going through the same sort of consolidation seen in snowboarding in the late 90s and at a guess the big growth spurt in kiting is finished already in developed countries, maybe we will see continued growth in some developing countries.

 

So how this can make it 'extreme' I have no idea. The extreme bits are speed and surf. Maybe course racing.

 

Kiting is best done in a pro tour with visits to surfing spots worldwide. Not sure it is any better than windsurfing for olympics and given course racing for kites is in its infancy equipment wise as cheesy says, its too early to consider.

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Paul Henderson was asked by the ISAF to give his thoughts on their Olympic decisions. We got 'em...

 

There should be Keelboats because of facilities required for the Paralympics.

Also it is where the best names in Sailing show up which is what the media likes.

The media likes personalities more than they like equipment.

 

 

Respectfully submitted,

Paul Henderson

 

This has to be the absolutely stupidest comment I have read to date on the "Keep a Keel Boat in the Olympics" argument. Is he for real??

 

If a country is hosting the Summer Games and does not have a sailing facility, they will be putting hoisting facilities in anyway because after the Olympics/Paralympics they will want their citizens to have access to a hoist. DOUH Any country hosting the games that has done so in the past already has the facilities anyway.

 

To argue that the Olympics needs a Keel Boat because of the Paralympics can be easily fixed. Combine the two using the 2.4mR which is a boat that seems to not care if you weigh 5' 110lbs or 6' 200lbs or are able or disabled. Both sizes have won major events. Unless of course you able guys are a bunch of Chicken Shits B)

 

 

PS: Who gives a Flying F about personalities? They come and they go.

 

 

+ 1,000,000,000

 

Dawg, Interesting comments from Henderson. As I recall the only "Gold Medal" for Canada was a Great Personality, Paul Tingley.. That was in the 2.4 Paralympics, did I mention Paul is the OPEN WORLD CHAMPION TOO..

 

Henderson, " THE POPE', probably would like to rethink these statements.

 

MB

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...I bet if they saw a Star plodding along and found out it costs $40k (guessing on price here), they would probably be shocked. If they saw a Shaw 650 blasting downwind with a masthead kite and found out it's $40k, they might not be as surprised since it's been described to them as a hi-tech, modern race boat versus an ancient design that was originally made of plywood. People can handle the idea of racing vehicles being expensive.

 

...Yes, I respect grace, grunt, and talent required to sail a Star at top levels, but a powerful sportboat is so much more interesting, and that's what the public needs to see sailing as! The micro tuning isn't there, but the physical effort of hiking hard and trimming well still is, along with the mental game of good driving and tactics. Imagine the photo from the front page with the Star about to round down in big breeze. Then imagine a powered up sport boat with the crew hiking off the back corner trying to keep the bow up and working in sync to surf at max potential. Other than the carnage factor of the Star, which would you rather watch? If we want sailing to take off, we need to get people to understand it can be fast and exciting!

 

Spoken like someone who's never sailed a Star.

 

The reality is that sailing is not failing in the US because of the boats, the problems are the result of a complete lack of strategic vision for our sport by the people who proport to run it. Look at France where individual incomes (and disposable income) has traditionally been a fraction of what they are in the US. The sport is thriving. Same in other countries.

 

If we want to address the core problem facing our sport in North America we need to stop looking at every fancy new boat that someone dreams up as the solution and get to the real problem. As someone who sails globally I can assure you that a little actual perspective might be a good place to start.

 

That said, Henderson's comments seem completely reasonable. Preserve the Star and ditch the windsurfers for kiteboarding. I also agree with his comments on the Finn, there's nothing even close to a suitable replacement.

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That said, Henderson's comments seem completely reasonable. Preserve the Star and ditch the windsurfers for kiteboarding. I also agree with his comments on the Finn, there's nothing even close to a suitable replacement.

 

Why have a Keel Boat that requires you to hike like that? I thought the whole point of keel boats was you do not have to hike??

 

You hike on dinghies not keel boats.

 

And don't show me photos of idiots on M24's killing themselves. Those rules need to be tightened up.

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Henderson is changing his tune quite a bit here. Last time the Star was threatened with Olympic expulsion PH was all for it. What has changed?

 

One thing is the increasing professionalism of the sport, and here's where you have to be careful not to blink or you'll miss it. It's not the sailors it's the coaches, MNA "authorities" and all the other hanger's on to any serious program (including "yachting journalists"). They need the Olympics as much or more than the sailors. I offer as proof the fact that non-Olympic classes still have their devotee sailors, but they rarely have the other appurtenances described above.

 

The Star, while not "modern" in many respects, is a very interesting riddle to solve, but more importantly to professional sailing administrators, it is the bridge from the dingys to the big league big boats. Check out any America's Cup or MedCup program and they're thick with Star Sailors. Star success on your resume is a leg up on the step up in those leagues - for the sailors AND the coaches. I'm not saying laser sailors don't get there, but the Stars are over-represented. The sailors will find their way to whatever boat you chose, but the coaches et.al. need the cache of the Star for their professional ambitions.

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Having reigned as 'Pope" during the last Olympic classes debacle I suppose its obvious ISAF think PH will just endorse their 'new' scheme.

PH exposed his ignorance of the sport during that debacle and also showed his utter contempt for the good folk out there who challenged him.

History will show that PH and all the other windbags at ISAF only ever support what is good for themselves.

Hence the Star and the Finn have survived over the years. Its all about numbers people.

The good of the sport be damned, they just want to be in charge!

rant over

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Having reigned as 'Pope" during the last Olympic classes debacle I suppose its obvious ISAF think PH will just endorse their 'new' scheme.

PH exposed his ignorance of the sport during that debacle and also showed his utter contempt for the good folk out there who challenged him.

History will show that PH and all the other windbags at ISAF only ever support what is good for themselves.Hence the Star and the Finn have survived over the years. Its all about numbers people.

The good of the sport be damned, they just want to be in charge!

rant over

You seem to know what you're talking about. Could you tell us exactly what "all the other windbags at ISAF" do get for being on the various committees they are on? There is no money paid to them in the form of wages. Do the Finn & Star supporters give them money under the counter? Bribes? Do they give them a Finn or a Star? Maybe supply hookers? The "windbags" certainly put a lot of time & effort into doing what they do - often at their own expense.

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Having reigned as 'Pope" during the last Olympic classes debacle I suppose its obvious ISAF think PH will just endorse their 'new' scheme.

PH exposed his ignorance of the sport during that debacle and also showed his utter contempt for the good folk out there who challenged him.

History will show that PH and all the other windbags at ISAF only ever support what is good for themselves.Hence the Star and the Finn have survived over the years. Its all about numbers people.

The good of the sport be damned, they just want to be in charge!

rant over

You seem to know what you're talking about. Could you tell us exactly what "all the other windbags at ISAF" do get for being on the various committees they are on? There is no money paid to them in the form of wages. Do the Finn & Star supporters give them money under the counter? Bribes? Do they give them a Finn or a Star? Maybe supply hookers? The "windbags" certainly put a lot of time & effort into doing what they do - often at their own expense.

 

i'm thinking power hungry control freaks cash not required

its not hard to understand really

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If the idea is to have events selected first and then consider equipment later then how about:

 

(1) Men's singlehanded

(2) Women's singlehanded

(3) Men's doublehanded

(4) Women's doublehanded

(5) Men's multihull

(6) Women's multihull

(7) Men's keelboat

(8) Women's keelboat

(9) Men's sailboard

(10) Women's sailboard.

 

Equal for men and women with a good range of events. All the other discussion is then about equipment.

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i'm thinking power hungry control freaks cash not required

 

That's right. I admit it. Those various stints I've spent on club and class committees were all about my insatiable lust for power, glorious power. Today we write up the minutes of the sub-committee working party but tomorrow we march on Moscow!

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If the idea is to have events selected first and then consider equipment later then how about:

 

(1) Men's singlehanded

(2) Women's singlehanded

(3) Men's doublehanded

(4) Women's doublehanded

(5) Men's multihull

(6) Women's multihull

(7) Men's keelboat

(8) Women's keelboat

(9) Men's sailboard

(10) Women's sailboard.

 

Equal for men and women with a good range of events. All the other discussion is then about equipment.

Except, if you wanted a bit of consistency, those aren't the ISAF recognized disciplines of sailing. Those are all fleet racing events with an equipment choice added.

The ISAF recognized disciplines of sailing are more like fleet racing, team racing, match racing, speed sailing and offshore sailing.

 

The closest you're going to get to representing offshore racing with in the constraints of the Olympics is the multi day raid. For the speed sailing just set a course favorable for the fastest times. Forget any rule 42 bollocks and leave it open for the duration of the games. Fastest time wins

 

OK team racing is huge in only a handful of countries (though they seem to like it in Japan!) and fleet racing is a huge part of the sport. So may the only concession would be more fleet racing at the expense of team racing. For my money team racing is a natural for the 21st century Olympics. It requires small maneuverable boats that mean light weight crews that has meant it's a natural for mixed sailing. And if none existent kite course racing is being considered... So May be Mixed team racing and 1 extra fleet racing discipline would be a compromise no one except the Finn crowd would entertain.

 

 

Equipment

 

Fleet racing ... That has to first off mean selecting the current ultimate course racing machine out there. It takes the body type to sail it it takes and you fit the second choice around that. A cat is used else where (sorry). So that leaves a crap shoot between a skiff and Moth.

 

I'd pick the 49er and Moth and beef up the 49er even more if it's not felt to be currently on the edge of what's sailable. If that's not enough consideration of 'access' then 49er and Laser Radial.

 

Trickier choice for the women. Is the Moth a bit heavy weight? Would you compromise what I said about ultimate course racing machine by sizing the womens skiff to put the Laser Radial in as a heavy weight option?

 

Match racing ... keelboat, same hull for both, different rigs for men and women. Make it something that requires grunt and all tweeky if you must, getting round the course fast is still what match racing is all about. It has to be supplied equipment though and I would announce the basic parameters well ahead but the decision on the boats it's self left till the absolute last minute needed to build them ready for the opening ceremony and wouldn't let any of the competitors sail them before hand.

 

Speed sailing ... kites have it at the moment

 

Offshore ... has to be a cat

 

So that makes my selection:

 

1) Mens fleet racing (heavy weight) - 49er

2) Womens fleet racing (light weight) - skiff

3) Mens fleet racing (light weight) - Laser radial

4) Womens fleet racing (heavy weight) - Laser radial

5) Mens match racing - Keelboat

6) Womens match racing - Keelboat

7) Mens speed sailing - Kite

8) Womens speed sailing - Kite

9) Mens endurance/offshore - Cat

10) Womens endurance/offshore - Cat

 

...

 

but I'd be half tempted to put 3&4 as team racing

 

...

 

The pathway to pro agenda for coaches and sailors is more than adequately addressed by the skiff and match racing. The Star lobby know that, nebcy why 'format' has suddenly become a third thing to vote on latter again (and other such bullshit)

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KIting may be a "water" sport, but it certainly isn't a "sailing" sport. It has more in common with wakeboarding (and arguably parasailing) than it does with sailing. As such, it should be considered as a separate entity and boxed-up with all of the other demonstration sports under consideration.

 

I'm making this comment not as a die-hard traditional sailor who is resistant to change but as someone who makes a living from action sports and am feeling a bit of the "here we go again...", re: the visceral skiing vs snowboarding / waterskiing vs. wakeboarding debates over the last decade+. Figured I'd get my $0.02 in now, while the topic is still young...;)

 

So, here goes...

 

Skiing and snowboarding share more similarities than the fact that they both happen on snow, on a hill. The fundamentals are similar and the disciplines mirror each other in gates, freestyle, and 'cross events. Likewise in cycling - road, crit, mtb and bmx may all be very different disciplines, but the fundamentals of the equipment are the same...take 2 legs and spin a crank to make 2 wheels turn.

 

There is no comparison between sending tricks in kiting and sailing courses in boats. Or in using a sail to propel a board down a similarly laid-out course.

 

And any arguments that kiting will attract people into sailing are pretty much off the mark. Kiting - culturally - appeals more to the wakeboard, surfing, stand-up paddle-boarding and jaded windsurfing crowd in that it provides a low-cost way to have some shits and giggles on the water. These activities are where any participation crossover is going happen. It won't happen with kiters suddenly getting a jones for Lasers or keelboats. Snowboarding re-invigorated skiing at a time it needed to be brought back to life. Eventually the two disciplines met in the middle. And it was a good thing. Kiting provides ski and snowboard shops something else to sell in summer more than it provides the sport and industry of sailing with any benefit.

 

So, not beating up on kiting - just take it out of discussions about sailing. The two are mutually exclusive...

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So, not beating up on kiting - just take it out of discussions about sailing. The two are mutually exclusive...

 

If it's wind-propelled movement of a person on the water, it's sailing. The demographics being different doesn't stop it being sailing. Low crossover with sailors in other branches of sailing doesn't stop it being sailing. The shops that sell the equipment being different to traditional sailing ones doesn't stop it being sailing. Exactly the same remarks are true of windsurfing and nobody disputes that is sailing.

 

Whether kiteboard course-racing is ready to be an Olympic sport is another question entirely and IMO it is not.

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i'm thinking power hungry control freaks cash not required

 

That's right. I admit it. Those various stints I've spent on club and class committees were all about my insatiable lust for power, glorious power. Today we write up the minutes of the sub-committee working party but tomorrow we march on Moscow!

 

 

or in your case delusions of grandeur. I'm also a long serving member of our sport and I would never denigrate you or your mates efforts at club/class level.

I WAS TALKING ABOUT WINDBAGS AT ISAF. Is that you?

The Paul Hendersons and Jerome Fels and Goran Petersons etc etc not the minions like you and me who make the sport actually work.

Basically the same guys who seem to have condoned that disgraceful race committee performance at the AC now I come to think of it.

And as for the downturn worldwide in sailing..... keep fiddling you old windbags!

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KIting may be a "water" sport, but it certainly isn't a "sailing" sport. It has more in common with wakeboarding (and arguably parasailing) than it does with sailing. As such, it should be considered as a separate entity and boxed-up with all of the other demonstration sports under consideration.

.

.

.

There is no comparison between sending tricks in kiting and sailing courses in boats. Or in using a sail to propel a board down a similarly laid-out course.

 

IMHO, if it's exploiting the velocity difference between wind and some other medium by the use of a lift generating device, then it's sailing. Kiting is sailing. Land sailing is sailing. Iceboating is sailing. Using a wing sail still means you're sailing.

 

This is sailing:

 

 

(Oh, and the IOC doesn't do demonstration sports at the Olympics any more.)

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Can probably someone explain to me what this CONFIDENTIAL in the initial post means... ?

 

And, do I see it right, it was originally posted on 18th of Octovber ? Interesting that it comes out NOW... :)

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There is no reason to even talk about kite sailing until it is picked up by the X-Games or something similar. Snow boarding came into the Olympics after it was widely covered on television. Adding kite boarding, or keeping skiffs fopr that matter, adds nothing to TV coverage for the sport of sailing.

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How light a crew to sail a hobie 16?

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I think that PH doesn't follow the windsurfing scene, this year at the youth worlds in France we had 400 young windsurfers on the T293 board. They were competing in two age groups and two gender groups. there age was between 13 and 17 years and they all have a competitive mind. I was there as member of the racecommitee and saw these hundreds of kids amusing themselves, trying hard to work hard on the water , compete on a very high level and most of all they all live for there sports. Here in Belgium for the Nationals we had 64 participants which is a hugh number for a non watersports minded country, in kite racing there were 5 older guys trying to make the course. The wind window is much smaller, in the techno class and RSX class they are racing with 5 knots just up to 35 knots with the same gear! I don't see a kiter sailing the same wing in such a big windwindow. Why is kiting so popular: its only the fact that most kiters are playing and have much airtime and the people on the beach see these guys flying through the air. On racekiting they stay on the water and there are no spectacular jumps or moves.So we come to the safety, in kitesurfing there are many injuries, this doesn't happen in windsurfing or sailing( an accident can happen always).

 

I've read an article in a multihull forum where they were talking about 10 possible medals : single handed dinghy (male female), double handed dighy(male female), multihull(mixed), windsurf (male female) and keelboat(mixed) then there are two medals free so they can choose for another support.

 

In my opinion the laser is a great class but they should change there equipement they should work with a boxrule (all the equipement should fit in or on a matrix) then there is progression ig the Finn class works yhis way and now they are sailing an old design but with high tech features carbon mast kevlar sails etc. The same for the RSX or T293 class because that is the beatiful of technology.

 

Rule 42 should be deleted because when one sailer is stronger than another one he may win the race, if pumping is admitted all competitors have the same possibilities and there wouldn't be any discussible desicion from a jury which will always be a reason to protest or dissagree. In windsurfing rule 42 doesn't excist and everybody is happy with that. The physique part of the sport may be a decisive part too.

 

Sorry for my bad English)

regards pat

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KIting may be a "water" sport, but it certainly isn't a "sailing" sport. It has more in common with wakeboarding (and arguably parasailing) than it does with sailing. As such, it should be considered as a separate entity and boxed-up with all of the other demonstration sports under consideration.

.

.

.

There is no comparison between sending tricks in kiting and sailing courses in boats. Or in using a sail to propel a board down a similarly laid-out course.

 

IMHO, if it's exploiting the velocity difference between wind and some other medium by the use of a lift generating device, then it's sailing. Kiting is sailing. Land sailing is sailing. Iceboating is sailing. Using a wing sail still means you're sailing.

 

This is sailing:

 

 

(Oh, and the IOC doesn't do demonstration sports at the Olympics any more.)

 

I'd disagree. They're fundamentally different from the standpoint that in "sailing" you're using a sail that acts as a wing that "pushes" the vehicle forward. In kiting, you're trapping air to drag the vehicle forward. That's what my comment about kiting having more in common with parasailng was referring to...

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I'd disagree. They're fundamentally different from the standpoint that in "sailing" you're using a sail that acts as a wing that "pushes" the vehicle forward. In kiting, you're trapping air to drag the vehicle forward. That's what my comment about kiting having more in common with parasailng was referring to...

 

Nope. Sails and kites are both aerofoils. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_kite

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+1 on Peter Huston's and Steve Clark's perspectives.

 

I competed at the 1988 and 1996 Olympic Trials in Division II sailboard and Tornado respectively. I finished both events in the top third of the fleet and in both campaigns walked away believing my participation helped prepare the teams who went on to the Olympics. That was the goal of many of us who could only afford to do "corinthian" campaigns financed mostly out of our own pockets and not being able to take long leaves from our careers.

 

The reality of having a successful program now is the ability to campaign 100% (i.e. it's your job) for at least 18-24 months and be fully funded. You'll still see some Trials events with a relatively large field (take the Finns in 2008) but at least 60-70 percent of that fleet are typically masters sailors racing the event for fun with no realistic chance of winning. That's OK, they are still contributing to preparing the winner and it's a shame it doesn't seem to happen on the same level in the other classes (for various reasons beyond the scope of this response).

 

Regarding Mr. Henderson's opinion, it's seem out of touch (or perhaps obsolete) in some key aspects:

 

1. One singlehanded men's dinghy - The competitive Laser sailor is 170-175 lbs and is very, very fit. There is no point to having a parallel event where the sailors need to weigh 20-30 lbs more, absurd! Pick one or the other, not both.

2. One two person dinghy or skiff for both men and women, 470 has served well but time to move on to skiffs for men and women (49er and 29er)

2. I'm neutral on the keelboat event but including it does created a balanced format and represents the entire sport better even though the boats are expensive.

3. Multihull - Hobie 16??? NO, NO, NO. His comments about the Tornado are ridiculous in light of his support of the Finn and Star (both classes he competed in actively). F-18 does not want to be an Olympic class and the Tornado has kept up in its evolution to be able to represent the state of the art in current two man, twin trapeze with spinnaker high performance catamarans. The class has also made a huge effort to get the cost of a complete boat down to the low 30's, about the same as a new 505. A new Finn is pushing $25K and a new Star is over $50K. A Tornado (and an F-18 and F-16) also holds it's value much better than a Star or Finn because the platforms have a documented competitive life of over 10 years (just like the 505's).

4. Sailboarding is strong and the racing represents all the elements of traditional sailboat racing and requires a very high level of fitness. It should remain in for sure.

5. Kiteboarding is not ready to be an Olympic sailing event. Maybe in 8 years. It's more like snowboarding compared to alpine skiing right now.

 

I also was/am involved in the circus both as competitor and coach. My experience is limited to 470's, Tornados, Radials, boards and currently sailability.

 

I have a soft spot for the 470 but it's now past it's useby date and even unsuitable for club racing. The Tornado is a magnificent boat and very cost effective to campaign considering what you are getting. It's now very refined, plus you don't have to renew sails every meeting (unlike to laser) It's still the fastest (race speed and boat speed) two person cat (ex C class though I believe it's even beaten those). There are other cat options along the line of formula 18's/20's especially for mixed and open crew formats though women are very succesful in the Tornado. PH"s comment of cat kinetics aspects shows how out of touch he is - scary!

 

The laser I'm afraid should be culled from the games. The boats are simply awfull and unnessarily expensive, especially considering the abundance of single handed classes on the market. The obvious candidate is the foiling Moth which enjoys a more flexible weight range than the Laser and Finn.

 

Windsurfing should represent windsurfing, though the ISAF track record in suitable claases contradicts this concept. Indoor windsurfing is televisually exciting and would pull in representative windsurfers. To my knowledge there are minimal if any international windsurfers competing on the current Olympic board - why would they race an overweight expensive nonperforming hybrid?

Kite surfing is exciting and a potentially worthy Olympic sport. I can't wait to see the kites they come up with for 6 knots or the hybrid ISAF lands them with.

 

Why have a keel boat in the Olympics or more to the point why does having something heavy to stabilise the boat qualify it for the Olympics. Certainly why have a keel boat for women when their natural agility and lighter weight lends towards a skiff/foiler.

 

Why have team racing when we have the Medal race. Besides, there's a shit losd of team racing happening anyway in all the O events, especailly at medal race time, why have it separately? O Team racing was meant to be TV audience friendly and we know how that's turned out.

 

The current cost, sacrifice and dedication in any sailing Olympic effort is considerable. Not only the financial cost just getting to the Gold Fleet but the mental and physical sacrifice including long term damage. ISAF needs to take a long hard look at this since at present they don't seem to understand what they are meant to represent. Did they even realise what sailors went through for China? Have they bought a Scudd recently and seen what they are getting for the money?

 

It's the sailors who live on rice/camp whilst the ISAF folk stay in 5 star hotels all expenses paid. This is a cheap shot I know but memories of the old RYA remain ingrained.

 

 

ISAF have the oppurtunity to really do something here but I fear, just based on their track record, they will fall back into their existing ways, an opinion not helped by PH's letter.

 

Yours

 

just holding onto his ISAF reg number,

 

M

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Paul Henderson was asked by the ISAF to give his thoughts on their Olympic decisions. We got 'em...

 

Olympic Events: (On request of the President) CONFIDENTIAL

 

Assumptions:

Sailing will continue with 10 Events and 380 athletes for 2016.

Olympic Sailing should err on side of "Talent over Technology".

Encourage inclusivity not exclusivity.

The vote on the Events takes place in November 2011.

The Equipment (Classes) are picked in 2012.

Format, Fleet or Match, to be done 3 years before but should be done also in 2012 with exceptions.

Experience with 2012 Women's Match Racing will put this in place. Match is exclusive. Fleet inclusive.

(Council made error by deciding Women's Match Racing in 2007 as that is Format.

Women's' Keelboat is the Event.)

 

Solid Classes:

Men's Singlehanded: Laser Standard

2) Women's Singlehanded: Laser Radial

3) Men's Keelboat:

4) Women's Keelboat:

5) Open Doublehander: Skiff: 49er (no reason to change)

6) Men's Heavyweight Singlehander: Olympics must not become a Junior small peoples event.

The Finn has served sailing well and should be retained until something better comes along.

 

Comments: There should be Keelboats because of facilities required for the Paralympics.

Also it is where the best names in Sailing show up which is what the media likes.

The media likes personalities more than they like equipment.

 

Tough Decisions:

 

History:

It has been done before that an event is held out of the Games for a period and then brought back. It has usually been done to change equipment as was done with the FD and Tornado.

Windsurfing was originally brought in to show the cutting edge of our sport as distinct from the traditional aspects as shown above. Windsurfing 40 years ago was the new "Extreme Sailing".

For the next decade every other car going down the highway had one on their roof.

Now it is in strong decline and should be dropped for 2016. 40 years was a good run.

Skiing is a good example as they have replaced events with Snow Boarding disciplines. Speed skating has also met the challenge with Short Track.

 

Kite Boarding is the new "Extreme Sailing"

 

Must make the decision to drop the 470 and Windsurfing Men and Women.

 

Bring Cats Back: (Kinetics are minimized)

 

It was right to drop the Tornado as it had become very expensive and exclusive succumbing to technology.

 

7) Men's Cat: (model to be a modern Hobie 16 with their same "Laser" mentality)

8) Women's Cat:

 

Kite Boarding: "Extreme Sailing"

 

Take a leap of faith and put Kite Boarding in for 2016 as we did with the 49er and Windsurfing so many years ago. Format does not need to be decided till 2013. ISAF will have two year to massage the format to have a sensible equipment and competition.

 

9) Men's Kite Boarding

10) Women's Kite Boarding

 

"Fools go in where Angels fear to tread"

 

Respectfully submitted,

Paul Henderson

 

 

Talent over technology; inclusivity not exclusivity. Thery are arguments that sailors heard in the recent past. I remember IYRU research, meetings 1966 -1968 and trials for new Olympic classes; in this time the key word was populartity. Awful period, questionable decisions, often motivated by personal interests. Yet we are survive!

There are things that I share and others no.

I understand: mixed partecipation for man and woman sailors; the reintroduction of multihull, not necessarily Tornado. I think i.e. Hobie cat for mixed crews, a simple and economic class; the problem is when the boat are not Olympic class the costs are reasonably; since they are Olympic costs increase immediately. We can refer to Yngling, Elliott ...

I understand to maintain Laser class M/W ; is the ideal dinghy for medium and heavy sailor, but I think there are too much single handle. In detail I think the Finn would be out.

 

Kite surf: for me it is not sailing but only circus act. If we want to add another discipline, ok but I think windsurf must stay in the Games.

Skiff for two person (M/W): I share, for me it is a good idea. 470 is very kind dinghy, here the question is to accept a boat with different caratheristics.

Match race: big popularity and show. let's speack clearly: there are few persons that know match racing rules and undestand the races correctly. The others applaud because they see boats' circling, tack, gybe but they not know the reasons.

Two man keelboat: if we want to exclude Star, we must do two things: take off one's hat and to propose better boats. We must avoid the cunning figure of 1976 (decision of 1968).

Three man keelboat: the recent history teached that are only problems, costs, a lot of problem for races; it is difficult to constitute crews. My opinion is to exclude it.

 

Finally I report an expression by Skip Etchells, sarcastically pronounced in Jan 1968:

 

"lesson 783: in the working on a new one design, forget experience and the drawing board. Concentrate on political science"

 

 

Willy

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Comments: There should be Keelboats because of facilities required for the Paralympics.

 

Respectfully submitted,

Paul Henderson

 

Here is another suggestion on the stupid comment by Paul (I still don't know who you are) Henderson.

 

If you want keel boats in the Olympics because of the keel boats in the Paralympics then:

 

Why have you not suggested the Sonar for the crewed Men's and Women's events? There are fleets in Europe and the East Coast of the US and growing around the world. Choosing the Sonar would also help in spreading Disabled sailing around the world.

 

 

Why have you not suggested the 2.4mR for the singlehanded Men's and Women's events? There are fleets in Europe and the East Coast of the US and growing around the world. Choosing the 2.4mR for the single handed event would also help in spreading Disabled sailing around the world.

 

 

Oh I forgot, you people think you have to hike in order to sail properly............Stupid me, how could I think that.

 

You could also look at the SKUD as it can be sailed by able sailors with a bigger rig and traps for the Crew and or Skipper. I hear it is really fun and will not turtle because of the ballast assist lifting keel.

 

But forgive me for thinking of boats that are not only fun to sail, challenging and crossover to many body type sailors........I had better go back in the closet. :blink:

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KIting may be a "water" sport, but it certainly isn't a "sailing" sport. It has more in common with wakeboarding (and arguably parasailing) than it does with sailing. As such, it should be considered as a separate entity and boxed-up with all of the other demonstration sports under consideration.

.

.

.

There is no comparison between sending tricks in kiting and sailing courses in boats. Or in using a sail to propel a board down a similarly laid-out course.

 

IMHO, if it's exploiting the velocity difference between wind and some other medium by the use of a lift generating device, then it's sailing. Kiting is sailing. Land sailing is sailing. Iceboating is sailing. Using a wing sail still means you're sailing.

 

This is sailing:

 

 

 

 

(Oh, and the IOC doesn't do demonstration sports at the Olympics any more.)

 

I'd disagree. They're fundamentally different from the standpoint that in "sailing" you're using a sail that acts as a wing that "pushes" the vehicle forward. In kiting, you're trapping air to drag the vehicle forward. That's what my comment about kiting having more in common with parasailng was referring to...

 

If that was the case how can I possibly get a round a triangle course with a 1st generation bow kite and a twin tip board faster than a laser? and incidentally more comfortably as well...

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Here is another suggestion on the stupid comment by Paul (I still don't know who you are) Henderson.

If you want keel boats in the Olympics because of the keel boats in the Paralympics then:

 

I suspect his thinking is the other way round: if you have no keelboats in the main games then there might be a risk that in the future venues will consider creating the facilities just for the Paras not to be cost effective, and provide inadequate facilities, maybe none at all.

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Here is another suggestion on the stupid comment by Paul (I still don't know who you are) Henderson.

If you want keel boats in the Olympics because of the keel boats in the Paralympics then:

 

I suspect his thinking is the other way round: if you have no keelboats in the main games then there might be a risk that in the future venues will consider creating the facilities just for the Paras not to be cost effective, and provide inadequate facilities, maybe none at all.

 

But what about the local sailing community after the games leave? No matter how you look at his statement it is way off base.

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Here is another suggestion on the stupid comment by Paul (I still don't know who you are) Henderson.

If you want keel boats in the Olympics because of the keel boats in the Paralympics then:

 

I suspect his thinking is the other way round: if you have no keelboats in the main games then there might be a risk that in the future venues will consider creating the facilities just for the Paras not to be cost effective, and provide inadequate facilities, maybe none at all.

 

But what about the local sailing community after the games leave? No matter how you look at his statement it is way off base.

For your information, after the Sydney Olympics, the "purpose built" sailing venue was dismantled & removed, in spite of YA trying to get hold of it.

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Here is another suggestion on the stupid comment by Paul (I still don't know who you are) Henderson.

If you want keel boats in the Olympics because of the keel boats in the Paralympics then:

 

I suspect his thinking is the other way round: if you have no keelboats in the main games then there might be a risk that in the future venues will consider creating the facilities just for the Paras not to be cost effective, and provide inadequate facilities, maybe none at all.

 

But what about the local sailing community after the games leave? No matter how you look at his statement it is way off base.

For your information, after the Sydney Olympics, the "purpose built" sailing venue was dismantled & removed, in spite of YA trying to get hold of it.

 

Damn, and I thought us Yanks were dumb.

 

I guess it is up to the local govt. But you are saying there were no other facilities in Sydney Harbor that the 3 Paralymic classes could have used.

 

We are not talking about very many people compared to the Olympics.

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Here is another suggestion on the stupid comment by Paul (I still don't know who you are) Henderson.

If you want keel boats in the Olympics because of the keel boats in the Paralympics then:

 

I suspect his thinking is the other way round: if you have no keelboats in the main games then there might be a risk that in the future venues will consider creating the facilities just for the Paras not to be cost effective, and provide inadequate facilities, maybe none at all.

 

But what about the local sailing community after the games leave? No matter how you look at his statement it is way off base.

For your information, after the Sydney Olympics, the "purpose built" sailing venue was dismantled & removed, in spite of YA trying to get hold of it.

 

Damn, and I thought us Yanks were dumb.

 

I guess it is up to the local govt. But you are saying there were no other facilities in Sydney Harbor that the 3 Paralymic classes could have used.

 

We are not talking about very many people compared to the Olympics.

I'm pretty sure it was dismantled after the Paralympics. Local residents didn't want it there. Always problems with them. Close to CYCA (where the Syd-Hobart is run from) YA wanted it as their headquarters. Perfect - but not to be.

 

I never understood why they set up a special venue. There are plenty of places the Olympic sailing could have been run from, maybe just not all in the same place.

 

EDIT. I'm sure some Sydneyites could fill in more detail. I've probably got some of it a bit wrong. Thats just what I've heard.

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i WISH THEY WOULD STOP TRYING TO "SEX UP " THE OLYMPICS

 

they need to re focus on thecore basics that are the foundation of the modern olympics

 

sports disciplines that reflect the greek origins

 

stronger, faster, higher ... subjectively judged " sports " need to be questioned

 

and with sailing ... IF IT AINT BROKE, DO NOT FIX IT e.g. ...tornado, star, men's finn

 

leave kite boarding alone until it has had a chance to evolve properly into a competitive sport

 

and i seriously question how many body types are suitable for either kite boarding or foiling moths

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If the idea is to have events selected first and then consider equipment later then how about:

 

(1) Men's singlehanded

(2) Women's singlehanded

(3) Men's doublehanded

(4) Women's doublehanded

(5) Men's multihull

(6) Women's multihull

(7) Men's keelboat

(8) Women's keelboat

(9) Men's sailboard

(10) Women's sailboard.

 

Equal for men and women with a good range of events. All the other discussion is then about equipment.

 

(1) Mens Singlehanded Dinghy

(2) Women's singlehanded Dinghy

(3) Men's doublehanded Dinghy

(4) Women's doublehanded Dinghy

(5) Mixed gender Multihull

(6) Mixed gender modern keelboat that must include at least one woman and one man on the crew.

(7) Team Racing. Close action. Results are easily understood. Culminates in a final.

(8) Mens Kiteboarding - Cummon, it will be exciting and new. Bet it gets coverage.

(9) Womens Kiteboarding.

(10)......Let all the old guard compete for this last slot. A mudwrestling fight between the Star,Finn, 470 and windsurfer. Full TV coverage of the ISAF meeting, gloves off fight, no rules. Whichever wins will be meaningless to mainstream, but at least let them fight among themselves. I vote for the Finn.

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Lets forget Europeans exist for a minute ( well they will all be poor and bankrupt in the next 20 years anyway and hence their infuence will diminish)

and list the boats that an Asian ISAF would choose IMHO....

 

Finn and Star out for sure, Cat would be a smaller one, F16 is close to perfect for 2 lightweights to sail either men, women or mixed

The other boats are fine and they already sail them.

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